So you may or may not have been following my issue with Showcase Nissan. Anyway I was gonna bring my car in to get the tranny checked and went to start the car only to hear terrible noises. So we had to get the car towed to an infiniti dealership. At that dealership they told me that I was 2 quarts low and the oil was terribly dirty. It turns out that Showcase Nissan (where I brought my car 2 weeks earlier to get the oil changed) never changed the oil. Anyway the infinity dealership put oil in the car and it ran better but there was still considerable engine noise. After reasearching it more they found that the piston was striking the spark plug and it resulted in TOTAL INTERNAL FAILURE of the engine. Because the car is still under warranty I am getting a brand new shortblock 4k+ new rings 350$ and about 800$ of labor. At least this is the word so far. If anything changes I'll let you know but I'm going to be without a car for at least 5 business days... So I guess I can probably forget getting my SFCs installed this break, or the FSTB and RSB sitting in my kitchen

 

That's

Throw some cams in while you're at it

How the holy hell did this happen? :.. Let's see the spark plugs.

SO explain this... whyaare you getting new rings with a new shortblock?

 

mass confusion, that's why he's getting two complete sets of rings! He's obviously dealing with a wonderful group of Nissan techs over there.

 

At least you get some new parts for the engine

 

let me guess you have bosch +4 in there. if the piston hit the plug its not the oils fault. also the head could be damaged by debris. get the money and plop a low milage used motor and keep the rest.

 

this is a STOCK engine I didnt put anything in it. No new plugs nothing!

 

lol how would the piston strike the spark plug anyway? debris sitting on top of the piston? conrod or connecting pin snap and toss the piston upward?

 

So the big question is...will you be changing your own oil from here on out?

 

HAHA you bet your friggen *** I will

 

Yeah, the only way for the piston to hit the plug is if the connecting rod failed and the piston smashed against the top of the head. Somewhat unlikely, considering that the valves would probably get smashed before the spark plug, right?

And for them to only give you a shortblock and not a longblock - like JSutter said, I'd be concerned about damage to the head. I'd ask for a longblock for them to do it right. Of course, I don't expect that your request will have much weight, but it stands to reason that if they are going to have to pull the block anyway they might as well drop in a whole crate motor. It will probably save them time.

 

how the f*ck do you bring your car into a DEALERSHIP of all places for a job and they dont even do it? Because of their negligence, they just lost a good 6 grand. Dumb @sses i swear

 

Yep, do it yourself, do it right and save lots of money and frustration

 

+1..And someone else said new rings on a new short block???. ??
Something just doesn't sit right here.. IMO, it's good your engine blew, you don't have to worry about long term engine failure because of their ignorance, but it sounds like they are full of B.S. You don't replace piston rings on a "new" shortblock, and if they are just fixing yours replacing just 2 or 4 pistons is a cheap way out and not the correct way to do it, IMO. Not to mention the eggshelling and blow-by you will probably have on your other cylinders from small particles... And if you did break a connecting rod, or rod bearing your crank will be all kinds of scared and will require turning + all new rod bearings... I would defiently make it a point that you want a new long block.

 

SO heres an update.... my dad is an idiot. He sucks worse than me when it comes to the mechanics of an engine so last time he just got his facts wrong. Anyway I called the guy up and he said the sounds coming from the engine were coming from the bottom of the engine around the crank. Basically he gets a new shortblock from infiniti and he sends my screwed block to infiniti where they remanufacture it and sell it. This infiniti dealership never opens the engine themselves so they wont ever know exactly what went screwy, but they seem pretty sure that getting a new short block will replace any parts that could be possibly damaged.

This sucks... but after this instead of having an engine with 60k miles I'll have a brand new one, but once I get the car back I am gonna have to give it away for another week at least so that the SFCs can be put in.

Basically I'm not gonna have my car for the next 2-3 weeks.... this is just plain depressing... and I will be gone back to school before the car is ready to drive, which meens I wont be able to play with all my new suspension mods for another 6 months when I come home for summer in June.

BTW when they say they are replacing the shortblock that meens I am getting new pistons, rods, ect ... I am not exactly sure what a shortblock includes but its all the engine internals, which includes rings as well as a new bottom end

Ohh yeah and if I have a new engine doesnt that meen I need to go through a break in period again where I get to drive it like a bat outta hell to seat the rings by creating more vacume aka: flooring it and than letting off the accelerator? ohh yay this could be some good news!

 

so you ran low on oil and spun a rod bearing. just hope that no metal peices made it up into the valve train. the short block is everything below the heads, a long block includes the heads but no manifolds.

 

what would happen if metal pieces made it into the valvetrain? Damn I love cars and I study them non stop (I spend something like 4-6 hours a day on this board) but when it comes to experience under the hood I am such a retard. I wish I could tear appart some engines and rebuild them to learn something.

 

anything thats contacts the oil could get scraped up, the cams in particular. i tore apart a motor that had extensive damage and the cams were all messed up. under the bearing caps they were well worn. each cam has oil flowing through it which lubricates the cam. they are very small holes which could also get blocked up with debris. your motor may be ok but only way to know is a tare down. see if you can get a full repacement. try and reason that the labor will be far less, thus saving everyone money.

 

J's right. They should replace the long black. If they refuse find a reputable machine shop to at least have the heads cleaned up and looked over, shouldn't cost more than $200, (I think, I do my work myself so I can't be certain) at least you will be safe.
as far as breaking in the new engine. There are many different view points on this. Could probably even be a new thread on its own. I personally like to ride it hard in manual gear and let it engine break back down.. I don't want to go ot so I'll leave it there, but I wouldn't be opposed to debating engine break-in techniques.
for engine operation check out howstuff works.com...It's a wonderfull website. Here's a link to internal combustion engines. This doesn't go to indepth, but is good information for the average enthusiest.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm

 

My main or crank bearings went out on my 4runner and it allowed the pistons to slap the heads. Not enough that I couldn't just mill them and put them back on but if it's under warrenty and you had a failure like that I would insist on getting a long block. Other than possible valve damage just the fact that when the bearings go bad metal debre goes everywhere oil goes.

Good Luck

 

How could I really insist on a long block? We asked them today and they in a very nice way said they couldent really do that. What I could do is go and meet with the service manager and present him with the ideas that you folks are bringing up on why I should get a long block. Anyone want to expand their argument a little on why the long block is better and why it is nessecary in this instance, so that I have a solid argument with several valid points to argue when I go in there. The more ammo I have goin in there the better chance I have at getting my request.

I would really appreciate it. Again I know about cars in general but mechanically I dont know servicing of the engine very well at all. ANy help you could provide would be great... what happens now determines the future of my I35, and I love this thing!

 

Well, as the service manager knows oil lubricates all internal parts of the rotating engine assembly. All you really have to do is explain oil goes through oil passages and lubricates camshaft bearings, camshaft to valve contact, etc and there is no way to be sure camshaft bearings or anything else didn't get scared. There could also be foreign material left in the heads that will ultimately work themselves back into the oil pan. He may claim "well the oil filter would have caught any foreign material before it would have reached any oil galleys" I would first try to reason with him in a kind but assertive manner. If you speak to their manager and they still refuse then while the motor is apart tell them you want the head sent to a trusted and reputable machine shop (be carefull who you pick to do machine work) for inspection. Tell them that if it needs any work because of the engine damage, then they shouldn't have a problem footing the bill. This should make them change their mind about giving you a shortblock...I can't understand why they aren't replacing the long block. Is this Nissan North America's policy or the dealerships???...

 

Go buy a junkyard motor and have at it. Nothing to worry about that way, then just get some beater to put it in.

 

I really like your thought process. I have often wanted to find a POS 350 (The cheapest engine in the world to rebuild, they made millions of these) block, backed by an old Turbo350 with a High performance VB or a T5/T56, push the firewall back and throw it in a rusty beat up metro.The guys at the strip would laugh their a**es off until they saw spray coming out of the hood while I was waiting on the tree...and a low 10's on the screen.
Yup go to harbor freight get yourself a cheap engine stand, one of these http://www.goodson.com/store/templat...108d8b8d9f4c82, and you are good to go...

 

I could pull a 350 from a junkyard... how to get it running again would be problem enough for me, not to mention trying to put it in a metro. to me I see putting it into the engine bay and being like.. "how the hell do I secure this thing so it doesnt move? Than I have to learn how to weld and fabricate the braces to hold the thing in the right position in the engine bay. Than I would have to rip the tranny and the axles out of the metro and fabricate braces and cut away at some other areas to get a t56 and beifier axles and rear end to fit. It seems like everything would have to be made completly custom. I would rather buy an 80s mustang that runs like **** for 500 bucks and rebuild the engine myself with new internals. Or I would get a fiero and do an engine swap with a nothstar v8. My boss did this and he was putting out 400hp in his mid engine 2300lb fiero.

 

If you had that fiero, you could turn that into a Lambo kit-car.

 

In addition to bringing up the unknown potential damage to the heads and valvetrain, the argumement could also be made that a longblock will save time. Since a longblock is pretty much a crate motor, it only requires some final assembly after installation. It might need the intake manifold installed, things like that - nothing that won't have to be installed anyway if they're putting in a shortblock. Since they are pulling the entire engine block out anyway, why not just drop in an entirely new motor instead of wasting expensive man-hours putting the old heads, which are in questionable condition, on a new block? I'm sure dealer technician time is something like $100/hr, they could save themselves a lot of time by dropping in a longblock.

Now THAT's a good idea! I always liked the Fiero, I knew a guy in HS who had one. Wrapped it around a tree before we graduated, the friggin moron. Anyway that 2.8L V6 is a POS, but the Northstar is a good motor. What did your boss use for a transmission, just the FWD trans out of a Caddy?

 

I'm not sure what he used for a tranny, but he said that the Northstar v8 was a pretty common swap into those cars. I am sure several of these swaps have been done and you could probably get an answer in 2 seconds on a fiero forum.

Now so far we have said that oil traveling through the top part of the block could have been carrying shavings damaging that as well. What happens when this guy tries to tell me. Ohh the shavings are denser than the oil thus they will fall into the pan, and ohh the oil filter should trap all of this debris before it hurts anything... cause I know hes gonna come at me with that crap

 

Well if the shavings are fine enough they will flow through the oil system with the rest of the oil. Sure, they'll sink to the bottom with gravity when the engine is off, but fine particles could be picked up by the pump and pulled into the system. I wish I had a schematic of the oil system with me at work here, I'd look at the routing of the oil and its position relative to the pump and filter.

Anyway it doesn't take a very large particle to obstruct an oil galley or cause damage to a bearing. If it's something hard, like from a forged steel connecting rod, and it comes in contact with a brass bearing, it's going to eat up the brass quickly.

Good luck, man.

 

for low mileage VQ35.

 

Update: we called david today the service manager at the infiniti dealership and used the info you guys gave me. He agreed and said he usually tries to get Longblocks but he has to show infinity that there is sufficient reason to get a longblock rather than a shortblock, which sounds great but it is a change of story compared to what he said when he thought we would need just a shortblock, because we aked him if he needed to check with infiniti before ordering a shortblock and he said no we can order what we need and infiniti doesnt ask questions, they just take the busted block off our hands remanufacture it and sell it.

 

Fantastic News..The only reason I can think of them Bull sh**ting you is for extra labor $$. I mean Nissan will swap that block out and the dealership doesn't make extra $$ on the parts weather they swap it for a short or longblock since you are under warranty. If they get a shortblock and put your old parts back on they get paid for more man hours from Nissan corporate. Nissan pay out according to alldata:
Short Block Warranty/no warranty 16.9/25.1
Complete sassembly 11.9/16.7
So they get to charge an extra 5 hours to Nissan for doing 1 hour worth of work....I can't think of any other reason? There are dealer techs on this board, maybe they know. Either way - Congrats on your new/reman long block.

 

It would be a brand new longblock if anything. We wouldent accept a remanufactured block. But hell what a way to take 60k off your motor
Hopefully this wont take too long, but nothing is even going to have a chance of happening till tues, because the service dept has mon off because its a holliday

 

So did he give you a definitive answer as to whether you'd be getting a short block or long block?

 

not yet, but after throwing all the info you guys gave me at him he kinda changed his tune. They wont be open till tues though so I wont know untill at least then.

 

man i would love to talk about this, but there are too many posts and i dont feel like reading since its 6am. other components in a block: crankshaft, gear, 2 diff types of bearings, rods, rings, dont remember. but i had the chance to rebuild. too much measurements. it blows.

 

You're it's only 4AM on the West Coast ... think of others for cripes sake.