Oil loss - diagnosis from dealership
03-16-2007, 08:49 PM
#202
Originally Posted by soonerfan
after 1K miles, my oil is 1 qt low. whats left is very dark because its working harder.
I cringe at all these oil burning posts because I will eventuall have an 02 or an 03.
03-22-2007, 11:13 AM
#204
Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 56
dust n bones, unfortunately this is how it starts. Take it from me, I should know I am on my second engine, which is now having the same oil consumption problems as the first engine. My first enigne was replaced under warranty at 98K km. It started gradually around 60-70 K km and was eventually consuming more than about 1L/ 1K km. My second engine is now at 65 K km and is now consuming about 1L/ 1K km. Talk about lighting stricking twice!!!!
I am now in the process of dealing with Nissan and the dealership. I am asking for a "goodwill gesture" on their part as I believe this is an ongoing problem since the first engine. We shall see and I intend to persue this matter relentlessly.
Damn it, I'm so disappointed. There I was thinking I was buying a great car back in 2002. Now I stand to loose thousands of dollars.
wolfman
I am now in the process of dealing with Nissan and the dealership. I am asking for a "goodwill gesture" on their part as I believe this is an ongoing problem since the first engine. We shall see and I intend to persue this matter relentlessly.
Damn it, I'm so disappointed. There I was thinking I was buying a great car back in 2002. Now I stand to loose thousands of dollars.
wolfman
03-22-2007, 11:18 AM
#205
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 5,432
Originally Posted by wolfmanjack210
dust n bones, unfortunately this is how it starts. Take it from me, I should know I am on my second engine, which is now having the same oil consumption problems as the first engine. My first enigne was replaced under warranty at 98K km. It started gradually around 60-70 K km and was eventually consuming more than about 1L/ 1K km. My second engine is now at 65 K km and is now consuming about 1L/ 1K km. Talk about lighting stricking twice!!!!
I am now in the process of dealing with Nissan and the dealership. I am asking for a "goodwill gesture" on their part as I believe this is an ongoing problem since the first engine. We shall see and I intend to persue this matter relentlessly.
Damn it, I'm so disappointed. There I was thinking I was buying a great car back in 2002. Now I stand to loose thousands of dollars.
wolfman
I am now in the process of dealing with Nissan and the dealership. I am asking for a "goodwill gesture" on their part as I believe this is an ongoing problem since the first engine. We shall see and I intend to persue this matter relentlessly.
Damn it, I'm so disappointed. There I was thinking I was buying a great car back in 2002. Now I stand to loose thousands of dollars.
wolfman
03-23-2007, 05:29 PM
#207
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by soonerfan
**EDIT**
1 Mar 07: Page 6 has my letter to Nissan NA and the response letter from them
As some people may remember, I am among the many people losing oil in their 3.5. I have been losing about a quart every 1,000 miles which causes the timing chain to rattle.
I took it to the dealership a few days ago and they just called back and said "we replaced the PCV valve that was stuck open".
I have 6,000 miles left on my warranty and I want to make sure they arent simply putting a bandaid on the problem until the warranty runs out.
So my questions are -
1. Could there be another problem that actually caused the oil leak and the PCV valve simply got stuck because of all the oil?
2. If it was the PCV valve, could the oil have caused more problems (clogged cats, etc)? And since the timing chain would rattle (due to low oil pressure causing the tensioner to not work) could there be problems caused by that (chain, cover, tensioner, etc)?
I'm going to pick the car up on Sun when i get back home and want to know if I need to argue anything else with the dealership before I sign for it.
1 Mar 07: Page 6 has my letter to Nissan NA and the response letter from them
As some people may remember, I am among the many people losing oil in their 3.5. I have been losing about a quart every 1,000 miles which causes the timing chain to rattle.
I took it to the dealership a few days ago and they just called back and said "we replaced the PCV valve that was stuck open".
I have 6,000 miles left on my warranty and I want to make sure they arent simply putting a bandaid on the problem until the warranty runs out.
So my questions are -
1. Could there be another problem that actually caused the oil leak and the PCV valve simply got stuck because of all the oil?
2. If it was the PCV valve, could the oil have caused more problems (clogged cats, etc)? And since the timing chain would rattle (due to low oil pressure causing the tensioner to not work) could there be problems caused by that (chain, cover, tensioner, etc)?
I'm going to pick the car up on Sun when i get back home and want to know if I need to argue anything else with the dealership before I sign for it.
03-23-2007, 08:34 PM
#209
Just to add I am also loosing oil and have been since 60k when I bought it. It has been getting worse and now I loose a qrt a week. When I downshift ro accelerate hard smoke comes out the exhaust and smells like burnt oil.
I now have 102000k on my car and do drive it hard but had the problem from day one. I've just gotten use to adding a couple qrts every other week and will eventually drop a new engine in.
I did a compression test and the # 5 cylinder has 135 comp and all others are over 170.
I now have 102000k on my car and do drive it hard but had the problem from day one. I've just gotten use to adding a couple qrts every other week and will eventually drop a new engine in.
I did a compression test and the # 5 cylinder has 135 comp and all others are over 170.
03-23-2007, 10:39 PM
#210
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,898
i'm with the others, and would really like to see a poll on this issue... because i have an 01 right now thats not burning a drop, and i'm thinking of upgrading to a 2003, but this oil loss issue has me concerned.. one of the techs at nissan was telling me that 2001 was the last year of the good quality nissan parts, because a different company started producing their parts after that and they've been garbage ever since.. i would also like for anybody who can to answer la02max's question about a break in procedure... anybody who's had their 02-03 since day one, what kind of break-in procedure did you follow and do you have this oil loss problem?
03-24-2007, 01:17 AM
#211
my 03 has been burning oil since october. I went to the dealership under warranty and did the 4 consumption tests. (twice) It's burning 1 liter per 1000k. I'm dropping off the car on Monday and a new engine will be installed, picking it up tuesday... Thank you extended warranty.
hows that for a
LOL
hows that for a
LOL
03-24-2007, 07:49 AM
#215
03-24-2007, 09:39 AM
#216
Originally Posted by wyche89
i'm with the others, and would really like to see a poll on this issue... because i have an 01 right now thats not burning a drop, and i'm thinking of upgrading to a 2003, but this oil loss issue has me concerned.. one of the techs at nissan was telling me that 2001 was the last year of the good quality nissan parts, because a different company started producing their parts after that and they've been garbage ever since.. i would also like for anybody who can to answer la02max's question about a break in procedure... anybody who's had their 02-03 since day one, what kind of break-in procedure did you follow and do you have this oil loss problem?
Break in procedure will vary vastly depending on who you ask. OEM engines have already been been "broke in" from the factory, so there is no need to "break-in" the motor the same way you would as if you just put new rings and seals in yourself. The only thing I can quickly recommend is staying away from synthetic for the first 5000 miles to allow the rings to fully seat. Not going to hijack this thread, so again start another thread.
Also there is no reason for Sooner to go to small claims court. There is also no reason for Sooner to write Nissan another letter with affidavits. As he already stated they have already honored his warranty by already doing work under his warranty. He's on the right track following the correct procedure as outlined in his Owners Manual.
03-24-2007, 09:48 AM
#217
im starting to wonder if my timing advance to 17 degrees before top dead center would cause this problem.
the timing advance causes the ignition to occur earlier (before the piston reaches top dead center).
would this cause extra compression that this rings cant handle?
the timing advance causes the ignition to occur earlier (before the piston reaches top dead center).
would this cause extra compression that this rings cant handle?
03-24-2007, 09:50 AM
#218
Originally Posted by 5thgenmaxima
Also there is no reason for Sooner to go to small claims court. There is also no reason for Sooner to write Nissan another letter with affidavits. As he already stated they have already honored his warranty by already doing work under his warranty. He's on the right track following the correct procedure as outlined in his Owners Manual.
from my original letter to NNA
- Should Nissan North America continue to deny service for the identified oil consumption problem under the existing powertrain warranty, I will seek arbitration through an arbitration program that complies with the Federal Trade Commission’s arbitration regulations as laid out in the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
03-24-2007, 09:58 AM
#219
Originally Posted by wyche89
i'm with the others, and would really like to see a poll on this issue... because i have an 01 right now thats not burning a drop, and i'm thinking of upgrading to a 2003, but this oil loss issue has me concerned.. one of the techs at nissan was telling me that 2001 was the last year of the good quality nissan parts, because a different company started producing their parts after that and they've been garbage ever since.. i would also like for anybody who can to answer la02max's question about a break in procedure... anybody who's had their 02-03 since day one, what kind of break-in procedure did you follow and do you have this oil loss problem?
03-24-2007, 10:23 AM
#220
Originally Posted by 5thgenmaxima
Well, start a poll then, in another thread of course.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....63#post4197963
And plenty more I'm sure...
03-24-2007, 10:37 AM
#221
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 933
Soonerfan: I doubt that it's your basic idle "advanced" (2 deg.?) timing. The tolerance is 15 deg. +/- 5 deg. BTDC, so that unless this thing was detonating badly enough to cause physical piston/top ring damage/burning etc., I don't think your slight basic timing advance had anything to do with it. Seems to me that I've seen an ignition curve on these engines showing that when they are up in the "higher power range" the ignition occurs at something like 35 deg. BTDC or more.
03-24-2007, 10:41 AM
#222
Originally Posted by P. Samson
Soonerfan: I doubt that it's your basic idle "advanced" (2 deg.?) timing. The tolerance is 15 deg. +/- 5 deg. BTDC, so that unless this thing was detonating badly enough to cause physical piston/top ring damage/burning etc., I don't think your slight basic timing advance had anything to do with it. Seems to me that I've seen an ignition curve on these engines showing that when they are up in the "higher power range" the ignition occurs at something like 35 deg. BTDC or more.
yeah its +2 (17)
i didnt think it could cause a problem but wanted to double check.
the engine has never had a problem (denotation problems, etc)
03-24-2007, 11:02 AM
#223
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 5,432
Originally Posted by 5thgenmaxima
Break in procedure will vary vastly depending on who you ask. OEM engines have already been been "broke in" from the factory, so there is no need to "break-in" the motor the same way you would as if you just put new rings and seals in yourself. The only thing I can quickly recommend is staying away from synthetic for the first 5000 miles to allow the rings to fully seat. Not going to hijack this thread, so again start another thread.
Originally Posted by kingrukus
When my '98 started to burn oil like these VQ35's, and I had the motor replaced with a brand new unit from Nissan under my 6 year ASP warranty, I followed that controversial break-in procedure done by the man that started using it on motorcycles...basically where you take the car to red line and let it engine brake a bunch of times. Also changed the oil very frequently in the beginning when doing that. After close to 90k KM on the new motor and that procedure, it didn't burn a drop of oil.
Originally Posted by P. Samson
Soonerfan: I doubt that it's your basic idle "advanced" (2 deg.?) timing. The tolerance is 15 deg. +/- 5 deg. BTDC, so that unless this thing was detonating badly enough to cause physical piston/top ring damage/burning etc., I don't think your slight basic timing advance had anything to do with it. Seems to me that I've seen an ignition curve on these engines showing that when they are up in the "higher power range" the ignition occurs at something like 35 deg. BTDC or more.
The only thing you're advancing is base ignition timing anyway, which is always closed loop and like you mentioned timing advances much further throughout the revband (for obvious reasons...combustion has to occur quicker, therefore spark has to begin earlier).
03-24-2007, 03:15 PM
#224
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by MacGarnicle
Thanks
Doesn't seem like changing the PVC is really going to do a whole lot though? Anyone know if the I-35 has the same motor as our maxima's? Looks identical!
03-24-2007, 03:16 PM
#225
Originally Posted by drock02
Thanks
Doesn't seem like changing the PVC is really going to do a whole lot though? Anyone know if the I-35 has the same motor as our maxima's? Looks identical!
Doesn't seem like changing the PVC is really going to do a whole lot though? Anyone know if the I-35 has the same motor as our maxima's? Looks identical!
03-24-2007, 03:28 PM
#226
Originally Posted by kwk1
I went through the 6th Gen threads and couldn't find any about oil consumption.
I wonder if they fixed this problem?
I wonder if they fixed this problem?
03-24-2007, 05:26 PM
#227
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 132
Basically, Mr. Sooner, I will tell you why you (unfortunately) and most likely won't be recieving a new motor:
You clearly stated you didn't follow Nissan's recommended lubricant: non-synthetic motor oil. That sly line in the middle of their letter about recommened maintenance is what I am referring to. Nissan should really prohibit use of synthetic to make it clear.
This will make about half the board, go, "oh, that's &%*#," but it isn't. It is how they operate. Nissan specifies dino in the owner's manual. Ditto'd in their letter.
You should have stated you chaged the oil, but negated the synthetic specification.
I have your same problem, too. Oil consumption, and it really varies. Last interval of about 3k miles (this was my first interval on german castrol) I used 1.5-1.75 qts. I don't even rev alot. Mostly <3k city driving. Auto-RX before this.
I think that is has nothing to do with break-in, and more with the rings themselves, and what they are made of. I would say the supplier has got the wrong metallurgical treatment/process/whatever, and this should be enough for them to replace the shortblock, but they won't. A recall like this would cost ALOT, but perhaps Nissan feels the potential loss in consumers is still less than this cost.
I would try getting a cheap VQ35 from a junker, rebuild it, and just eat it. Or sell it (which is way easier).
You clearly stated you didn't follow Nissan's recommended lubricant: non-synthetic motor oil. That sly line in the middle of their letter about recommened maintenance is what I am referring to. Nissan should really prohibit use of synthetic to make it clear.
This will make about half the board, go, "oh, that's &%*#," but it isn't. It is how they operate. Nissan specifies dino in the owner's manual. Ditto'd in their letter.
You should have stated you chaged the oil, but negated the synthetic specification.
I have your same problem, too. Oil consumption, and it really varies. Last interval of about 3k miles (this was my first interval on german castrol) I used 1.5-1.75 qts. I don't even rev alot. Mostly <3k city driving. Auto-RX before this.
I think that is has nothing to do with break-in, and more with the rings themselves, and what they are made of. I would say the supplier has got the wrong metallurgical treatment/process/whatever, and this should be enough for them to replace the shortblock, but they won't. A recall like this would cost ALOT, but perhaps Nissan feels the potential loss in consumers is still less than this cost.
I would try getting a cheap VQ35 from a junker, rebuild it, and just eat it. Or sell it (which is way easier).
03-24-2007, 05:30 PM
#228
nissan cannot deny warranty work for using synthetic oil...the oil did not cause the problem.
they are denying the warranty work because there are two oil changes i dont have proof of because i did it myself.
they are denying the warranty work because there are two oil changes i dont have proof of because i did it myself.
03-24-2007, 08:39 PM
#231
Originally Posted by P. Samson
AuAltima3.5: Nissan DOES NOT prohibit the use of synthetic oil. Where the hell did you get that idea?
03-24-2007, 09:56 PM
#232
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 933
'00 Owner's Manual under ENGINE OIL AND OIL FILTER RECOMMENDATION......Page 10-5......."Mineral based or synthetic type oils may be used in your NISSAN vehicle. These oils must however, meet the API quality and SAE viscosity ratings specified for your vehicle. Do not mix mineral based and synthetic type oils in the engine at the same time." Anyway the HOC on these "problem" engines (unless I'm misreading some of the posts), seems to occur fairly suddenly, long after being new and seem to be caused by only one or two cylinders. To me this eliminates break-in or lack of it, or an assembly problem like not staggering ring gaps/side clearances etc. Material/heat treating problems on a few rings or cylinder liners.......maybe. Owner self-inflicted......who knows? But until Nissan or it's engineering dept. releases some official info, then we may never know for sure. Hell.....the VQ35 should have been an improvement over the VQ30. It's got the "continuous full flow" block cooling and oil jet piston squirters that the VQ30 never got.
03-24-2007, 10:09 PM
#233
Originally Posted by P. Samson
Hell.....the VQ35 should have been an improvement over the VQ30. It's got the "continuous full flow" block cooling and oil jet piston squirters that the VQ30 never got.
03-25-2007, 06:50 AM
#234
Originally Posted by nismology
I shake my head daily at the wasted opportunity for greatness that is/was the VQ35DE.
it is an amazing and powerful engine!!
there are just a few cars where its all messed up by something small like piston rings.
03-25-2007, 08:06 AM
#235
Don't get me wrong, there are a number of upgrades that the VQ35 has over the 3.0 other than displacement that i appreciate. I'm gonna eventually swap one into my A32, but not without a different ringset. If the oil-burning instances were limited to maximas, that'd be one thing. But every VQ35-equipped vehicle has been plagued with this and it gets a bum rap because of it. 
Many people have sworn to never buy another nissan based solely on their experiences with an oil-burning VQ35. Clearly nissan dropped the ball. And it's not like they didn't have 4+ years to fix it either...
Not to mention skimping on the headgasket...2-layer MLS versus 3-layer for the RWD VQ.
What makes me different from the VQ35 haters though is i'm more disappointed than spiteful.
Many people have sworn to never buy another nissan based solely on their experiences with an oil-burning VQ35. Clearly nissan dropped the ball. And it's not like they didn't have 4+ years to fix it either... Not to mention skimping on the headgasket...2-layer MLS versus 3-layer for the RWD VQ. What makes me different from the VQ35 haters though is i'm more disappointed than spiteful.
03-25-2007, 08:36 AM
#236
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 405
burning oil is not a normal process for combustion.
the rings should have held up better for a car under 8 years old.
my car burns same amount and its a 92, and i still don't consider that par.
when is the last time you had to stop and fill up at the oil station?
the rings should have held up better for a car under 8 years old.
my car burns same amount and its a 92, and i still don't consider that par.
when is the last time you had to stop and fill up at the oil station?
03-25-2007, 09:21 AM
#237
Originally Posted by alextothestars
burning oil is not a normal process for combustion.
the rings should have held up better for a car under 8 years old.
my car burns same amount and its a 92, and i still don't consider that par.
when is the last time you had to stop and fill up at the oil station?
the rings should have held up better for a car under 8 years old.
my car burns same amount and its a 92, and i still don't consider that par.
when is the last time you had to stop and fill up at the oil station?
03-25-2007, 06:54 PM
#238
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by soonerfan
Nissan recommends normal oil...does not PROHIBIT synthetic
Wow, Nissan really had reason to even send a letter like that then, since it was totally unrelated to your problem.
03-26-2007, 05:34 AM
#239
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by P. Samson
'00 Owner's Manual under ENGINE OIL AND OIL FILTER RECOMMENDATION......Page 10-5......."Mineral based or synthetic type oils may be used in your NISSAN vehicle. These oils must however, meet the API quality and SAE viscosity ratings specified for your vehicle. Do not mix mineral based and synthetic type oils in the engine at the same time."
03-26-2007, 07:49 PM
#240
I'd like to see if the cylinders having problems are the same in all the problem cars...As I previously posted I have one cylinder producing low compression. I think it would be the #5. Mine is the closest to the driver seat.
Also like to see if there were similarities in the production dates
Also like to see if there were similarities in the production dates