foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

I had my engine oil analyzed (it has been a long time since I had that done) to check for wear and any potential issue. Also to see if I overextended my oil due to my laziness. Well it appears I did overextend the oil and I seem to have other issues.

The oil report basically says I need to worry about my dirt and coolant issues in the oil. The dirt may be coming from a leak in my intake system (currently have CAI injen installed, debating on putting it back to stock). The coolant is what really worries me though. From what I’ve heard, seen, and read up on here it looks like it may be the head gasket. I do plan on looking at this a little more closely, just haven’t been paying that much attention to my Max because its not my daily driver any longer.

The question is…should there be anything else besides what I list below to check for a head gasket issues?
--Check oil on dipstick to see if its milky white or like chocolate milk
--Check coolant overflow reservoir for any oil lake on top
--Check radiator cap for oil, and top of radiator coolant for oil lakes
--Check and monitor exhaust fumes, in particular on start-up, look for any white smoke
--On next oil change check the amount of oil and monitor level
--Check level of coolant and monitor closely

I have another oil sample to send in to Blackstone which is Mobil 1 synthetic. BTW, the guy from Blackstone said that Mobil 1 synthetic is not very good at all when it comes to synthetic motor oils. I am currently using Auto-Rx to clean out my engine and in the first cycle of it. I will monitor the oil as I change it, but I don’t know how much I would gain from observing the oil due to the added Auto-Rx and potential cr*p coming out.

Worst case scenario (possible head gasket leak) can this be done with the engine in the car, or would it have to be pulled? Would it be better to just swap it out with a used engine? Hmm…approximately how much would that run? I may be looking at just trading the Max in or selling it if its too costly. My 2K is probably worth about $8 now at most.

Thanks for the help….

LA02MAX

iTrader: (3)

ouch...It's pretty cliche in this situation to check the head gasket...That's one of the most common culprits when coolant is found in the oil.

HG's are not easy at all to replace in the car...I would definitely recommend removing the engine for this job. Do all the things you listed to check if there's oil in your coolant as well, and have you noticed anything before? (do you do your own oil changes?) Like the milky substance in your oil? It's definitely good to get a second opinion before jumping to conclusions such as this, so wait until you get the second sample analyzed to act.

As for swapping in a new engine: would it be better? Well, that depends on the individual...If you would rather save money, changing the HG yourself would be the best option, but seeing as how most places remove the engine anyway to replace the HG swapping in a new one would probably be less labor but obviously the cost would still be more since an engine is $500-$1000....

Madsci

Well you need to know where your coolant is coming in from. Perhaps you could pressurize your radiator overnight and see if there is any in the slugs? Pulling your plugs may show evidence too. Just a word of caution, if you do pressurize your system over night, make sure not to try to start it without pulling the plugs (possible hydrolock issue).

You could also just try a can of bars leaks and change your oil more frequently (are you really using 12k/synthetic?). This may cure the situation long enough to make it a non-issue for the next couple of years, who knows!

Love_00_Max

U should use bars only to fix radiator and heater core leaks -- NOT ENGINE head gaskets. If that metal sludge from the bars product makes it into the engine, the pistons will be toast, the clearances are so small that this bars product could scratch them.. Just a word of caution.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Thank you for all the replies.

No I usually do not wait that long to do oil changes. I just got lazy and lost track the last time because the Max isn't my daily driver any longer. At this point I am going to schedule oil changes every 3 months regardless.

I am also debating on whether to send this next sample to the same lab or a different one. I think I'll send to a different one and see what their results report.

Yes I do my own oil changes and have never noticed any milk white substance in the oil. My oil has looked fluid and dark with no off colors. I would have seen that right away.

Love_00_Max

I get my UOA done by AAA and pay $20 or so for it (their testing lab is in Vacaville, CA)

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Really? Triple A has that service? Hmmm...I'll check it out.

P. Samson

The coolant pump I believe could be a source of coolant contaminating the oil. There is supposed to be a weep hole between the timing cover and the block and if the pump shaft seal starts leaking, the leaking coolant should in theory drip from this weep hole. I would check for any signs of coolant there. BUT.......the pump body has two "O" rings and because the pump is installed in/through the oil wetted timing chain area I think it's possible that a leaking "O" ring, (particularly the one closest to the drive end) and possibly in combination with a leaking shaft seal, could leak coolant into the timing chain area instead of out the weep hole. It might be worthwhile to pull the coolant pump cover and look for signs of coolant there.

Love_00_Max

But then u will have to go to the AAA Car Serive Center (lucky for me there is one in San Jose, right next to my workplace), they suck out the few ounces from the dip stick for the sample.

Madsci

Yeah everybody's got to just do what they are comfortable with, but bars leaks does make products that are safe for block and head gasket leaks. I would be especially confident on this engine (if it were mine, again, user discretion) given that after the length of an entire oil change period (I believe he's saying 3 months of driving?) we're only looking at a coolant content of .17%.

Here's the product I was talking about. Generally I don't have too much faith in the kind of "pour-in wrench" type fixes, but I've used bars in the past and I think they make decent products. Certainly a word of caution with the stuff is not to use it more than once, maybe twice. It will start gumming up your heater core if you use more than was intended by the manufacturer.

Sorry, the link: http://www.barsproducts.com/PLT11.htm

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Actually that was after about 8 months of use on car for the 12K miles from last oil change. Back then it was more of a daily driver.

The 3 months was in reference to my future plans of oil changes. Going to regular dino oil and just changing it every 3 months regardless of mileage.

Yeah...I'm not TOO worried due to the low level they found in the test because it was prolonged drain interval. That's why I need to send this next sample to a different lab, Oil Analysis Lab up in Seattle, and see what they come up with.

I do monitor my fluid levels regularly and really haven't see any issues with them. The only potential issue I saw on the 12K mile drain interval was I was short about 1/3 of a quart on oil. But...for 12K miles that isn't anything to be wary of.

Theyears02

if you were going to use some magic oil, why use radiator stop leak instead of head gasket repair???
http://www.barsproducts.com/1100.htm

Madsci

I guess you could use either, but I don't know if he's sure he has a blown head gasket. I'm not exactly sure how the 3.5 is set up, but other motors you could get coolant in oil from a leaky coolant pump, intake gasket or a number of other places.

There is a way to tell if it is a head gasket, though, you can test for emissions gas compounds in your coolant. I believe napa has the test strips-

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Ok...well I got a change to check out my coolant and oil last night. Oil was clear with no milkiness, but I wonder if Auto-Rx is helping to clear any issues with that?

I did notice something floating in the top of my coolant under the radiator cap. Here is the picture of it below...sorry for the crappy quality, its from my cell phone in low light.



I noticed the same type of film, although is tiny spots, in my coolant overflow reservior. Is this oil? Hmmm...I'm not sure.

Oil analysis sent in...waiting on results at this point.

Theyears02

had the engine run recently? i dont know about the max, but i know in many other cars, after you run the engine the coolant can get finely mixed with air and make like a little foam/oil slick looking thing. not saying it is or isnt oil, just that it could be something other than oil

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Nah...the engine had sat since the previous day for over 24 hours. Yeah I'm not sure it is oil....

Ephraim

iTrader: (15)

so since they did not feel Mobil 1 Synthetic was quality, what did they feel was quality oil?

Love_00_Max

No syn oil is good for 12K miles, period. Mobil 1 can claim they can go for 15K miles but that is all BS.

FYI, Mobil 1 is a good syn oil if you use it for 7500 miles max and any dino oil is good for 5000 miles. You make a call, will I use syn when many dinos perform just as good as syn for 5000 miles OCI.

Comeon oil is cheap, correct OCIs will help (definetly not 12K/15K OCIs.) There was a thread on BITOG where BMW recommends 15-20K OCI, the UOA report was horrible. That 330i engine was toast after the first oil change.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

To clarify on the oil...

The oil analysis report in this thread is from Amsoil synthetic 5w30 oil. And yes 12K is too much for it. Look at the TBN..it is 0. TBN indicates the amount of additives left to provide protection.

After the Amsoil I put in the Mobil 1 synthetic. I sent this oil out after 2,200 miles of use for testing. I changed it early because I wanted to start the Auto-Rx cleaning cycle and it recommends to only use Dino oil.

Currently with the Auto-Rx I'm using Castrol 10w-30 dino oil. I'll be changing it out in about 1,000 miles for the 2nd Auto-Rx cycle. Then probably stay on dino oil after that because I plan on changing my oil at 3 months regardless of mileage.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Update....my second oil analysis which was conducted by Oil Analyzers resulted in no antifreeze or coolant found in my oil. They did find high level of sodium which may be an indicator of coolant, but coolant test resulted in no findings. They did say the sodium could also be coming from additives in the oil.

I'll keep on monitoring this and sending out oil samples. I think the initial test at Blackstone was a false alarm.

The second analysis did show high levels of silicon which means I'm still getting dirt in my system from somewhere. Most likely this is coming from my intake which I need to break it down and fully inspect it more. Maybe I should put the stock intake back on for a while.

Madsci

high levels of dirt in your oil may just be from the 12000+ mile change interval-

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Yeah I thought so too for the first sample I sent in. But this second one is from oil that has been through 2,200 miles of service so I think there is something else going on.

Ephraim

iTrader: (15)

good to hear it might have just been a false alarm. the VQ30 stills seems to be flawless.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

Hopefully...:knock on wood: I'll continue to monitor through some more oil analysis and see what comes up.

milesd77

If you pressurize the radiator and leave it for 30 min, you will see a drop in pressure on the gauge if there is a hole in the head gasket.

foodmanry

iTrader: (15)

It seems after two more oil tests my antifreeze issues have cleared up. The first test was done using Oil Lab Analyzers after finding my results from Blackstone indicated there was antifreeze in my oil. Oil Lab didn't find any antifreeze and the dirt was high in that test as well indicating that their results appear too be pretty consistent. (I know I had a dirt issue).

The second Blackstone analysis which was wonde with oil from Auto-Rx treatment after 2,200 miles found that the oil looked very good. No antifreeze in the oil, and the dirt levels way down.

I think the root cause of the antifreeze was either from mishandling of the sample, extended drain interval, or faulty testing.

The root cause of the dirt was due to a cracked and broken PVC boot in the engine block. This allowed outside air to infiltrate the block where the PVC valve is connected.

I'll send out another analysis after a couple more changes to see where I sit. I'm currently in the second stage of the Auto-Rx treatment and should be done in about 1,000 miles. I will send a sample of the second change after that.