Steering wheel shakes while breaking
09-26-2007, 12:24 PM
#81
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LI NY
Posts: 78
that was hypothetical
and dont take me out of context
the "if" implies alot in that statement
09-26-2007, 12:27 PM
#82
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LI NY
Posts: 78
09-26-2007, 12:45 PM
#83
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Posts: 4,035
Then give a good reason without pad transfer...
Not a single one of you arguing with Sooner and I have given ONE. Your only theory starts with pad transfer causing the rotor to warp.
Once again, the ONLY pad with this problem is OEM pads. Hawk, Akebono, PBR/Axxis, EBC, even Monroe Ceramics don't have the problem...
The fact is, one
came in saying that the problem is the rotors not the pads. Yet, EVERY bit of evidence points at the pads...
I am still waiting for ONE of you newbs to actually support your claim that it is the rotors.
So far the best one is, "I am a brake expert".
Not a single one of you arguing with Sooner and I have given ONE. Your only theory starts with pad transfer causing the rotor to warp.
Once again, the ONLY pad with this problem is OEM pads. Hawk, Akebono, PBR/Axxis, EBC, even Monroe Ceramics don't have the problem...
The fact is, one
came in saying that the problem is the rotors not the pads. Yet, EVERY bit of evidence points at the pads... I am still waiting for ONE of you newbs to actually support your claim that it is the rotors.
So far the best one is, "I am a brake expert".
09-26-2007, 12:49 PM
#84
Then give a good reason without pad transfer...
Not a single one of you arguing with Sooner and I have given ONE. Your only theory starts with pad transfer causing the rotor to warp.
Once again, the ONLY pad with this problem is OEM pads. Hawk, Akebono, PBR/Axxis, EBC, even Monroe Ceramics don't have the problem...
The fact is, one came in saying that the problem is the rotors not the pads. Yet, EVERY bit of evidence points at the pads...
I am still waiting for ONE of you newbs to actually support your claim that it is the rotors.
So far the best one is, "I am a brake expert".
Not a single one of you arguing with Sooner and I have given ONE. Your only theory starts with pad transfer causing the rotor to warp.
Once again, the ONLY pad with this problem is OEM pads. Hawk, Akebono, PBR/Axxis, EBC, even Monroe Ceramics don't have the problem...
The fact is, one
came in saying that the problem is the rotors not the pads. Yet, EVERY bit of evidence points at the pads... I am still waiting for ONE of you newbs to actually support your claim that it is the rotors.
So far the best one is, "I am a brake expert".
09-26-2007, 01:03 PM
#86
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LI NY
Posts: 78
In fact every case of "warped brake disc" that I have investigated, whether on a racing car or a street car, has turned out to be friction pad material transferred unevenly to the surface of the disc. This uneven deposition results in thickness variation (TV) or run-out due to hot spotting that occurred at elevated temperatures.
i would consider a thickness variation a warp
runout is lost material
further down
Other than proper break in, as mentioned above, never leave your foot on the brake pedal after you have used the brakes hard. This is not usually a problem on public roads simply because, under normal conditions, the brakes have time to cool before you bring the car to a stop (unless, like me, you live at the bottom of a long steep hill). In any kind of racing, including autocross and "driving days" it is crucial. Regardless of friction material, clamping the pads to a hot stationary disc will result in material transfer and discernible "brake roughness". What is worse, the pad will leave the telltale imprint or outline on the disc and your sin will be visible to all and sundry.
The obvious question now is "is there a "cure" for discs with uneven friction material deposits?" The answer is a conditional yes. If the vibration has just started, the chances are that the temperature has never reached the point where cementite begins to form. In this case, simply fitting a set of good "semi-metallic" pads and using them hard (after bedding) may well remove the deposits and restore the system to normal operation but with upgraded pads. If only a small amount of material has been transferred i.e. if the vibration is just starting, vigorous scrubbing with garnet paper may remove the deposit. As many deposits are not visible, scrub the entire friction surfaces thoroughly. Do not use regular sand paper or emery cloth as the aluminum oxide abrasive material will permeate the cast iron surface and make the condition worse. Do not bead blast or sand blast the discs for the same reason.
The only fix for extensive uneven deposits involves dismounting the discs and having them Blanchard ground - not expensive, but inconvenient at best. A newly ground disc will require the same sort of bedding in process as a new disc. The trouble with this procedure is that if the grinding does not remove all of the cementite inclusions, as the disc wears the hard cementite will stand proud of the relatively soft disc and the thermal spiral starts over again. Unfortunately, the cementite is invisible to the naked eye.
Taking time to properly bed your braking system pays big dividends but, as with most sins, a repeat of the behavior that caused the trouble will bring it right back.
basically the article says that if you drive like a maniac
you will deposit pad material unevenly
cause the rotors to become carbon hardened
and destroy the rotors
even with newer pads
so were all kind of right
09-26-2007, 01:13 PM
#87
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Posts: 4,035
As we said from the beginning, PAD MATERIAL TRASFER IS THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM NOT THE ROTOR.
OEM pads transfer A LOT of material (hence the problem of pulsating), others don't, OEM pads are the problem, not the rotors.
Do we all understand now?
And MaxBoost, your still a dong expert.
09-26-2007, 01:24 PM
#89
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LI NY
Posts: 78
As we said from the beginning, PAD MATERIAL TRASFER IS THE CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM NOT THE ROTOR.
OEM pads transfer A LOT of material (hence the problem of pulsating), others don't, OEM pads are the problem, not the rotors.
Do we all understand now?
And MaxBoost, your still a dong expert.
the pads cause a problem with the rotor
hence the rotor need to be replaced or resurfaced
making the rotor part of the problem
do we understand now??
basically your telling me he needs to change his pads and the old rotor is fine
this is what you meant
if the vibration is new and relatively minor you may get away with new pads
with excessive vibe or conditions the rotors need to be serviced as well as the pads
Last edited by justinny; 09-26-2007 at 01:28 PM.
09-26-2007, 01:35 PM
#90
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Posts: 4,035
driving hard with low temp brake pads is actually the problem
the pads cause a problem with the rotor
hence the rotor need to be replaced or resurfaced
making the rotor part of the problem
do we understand now??
basically your telling me he needs to change his pads and the old rotor is fine
this is what you meant
if the vibration is new and relatively minor you may get away with new pads
with excessive vibe or conditions the rotors need to be serviced
the pads cause a problem with the rotor
hence the rotor need to be replaced or resurfaced
making the rotor part of the problem
do we understand now??
basically your telling me he needs to change his pads and the old rotor is fine
this is what you meant
if the vibration is new and relatively minor you may get away with new pads
with excessive vibe or conditions the rotors need to be serviced
MY GOD, you guys just don't get it do you?
NO ONE said that the rotors do not have to be replaced/resurfaced because of the pulsating. We ALL said that the pads are the CAUSE of the pulsating since they transfer material to the rotor ruining them. Some have them grinded down, I replaced them, I don't like grinding down rotors. I can't seem to find ONE post where it is even HINTED that the rotors can just be re-used without anything being done to them because they are fine after the pulsating problem.
We have been saying the whole time that the pads cause the problem, the pads cause the problem...
09-26-2007, 01:52 PM
#91
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LI NY
Posts: 78
MY GOD, you guys just don't get it do you?
NO ONE said that the rotors do not have to be replaced/resurfaced because of the pulsating. We ALL said that the pads are the CAUSE of the pulsating since they transfer material to the rotor ruining them. Some have them grinded down, I replaced them, I don't like grinding down rotors. I can't seem to find ONE post where it is even HINTED that the rotors can just be re-used without anything being done to them because they are fine after the pulsating problem.
We have been saying the whole time that the pads cause the problem, the pads cause the problem...
metallic pad and burnishing them
and i did say we were all kind of right
09-26-2007, 01:53 PM
#92
MY GOD, you guys just don't get it do you?
NO ONE said that the rotors do not have to be replaced/resurfaced because of the pulsating. We ALL said that the pads are the CAUSE of the pulsating since they transfer material to the rotor ruining them. Some have them grinded down, I replaced them, I don't like grinding down rotors. I can't seem to find ONE post where it is even HINTED that the rotors can just be re-used without anything being done to them because they are fine after the pulsating problem.
We have been saying the whole time that the pads cause the problem, the pads cause the problem...
haha, i understand it pretty well.
09-26-2007, 02:00 PM
#93
Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: LI NY
Posts: 78
im actually due for brakes
im considering those hawks actually too
i have 38k ive had the car since 25k in 2004 with no new brake parts that i know of
slight vibe just starting but ill do the rotors too
im considering those hawks actually too
i have 38k ive had the car since 25k in 2004 with no new brake parts that i know of
slight vibe just starting but ill do the rotors too
Last edited by justinny; 09-26-2007 at 02:03 PM.
09-26-2007, 07:02 PM
#95
i dont need a high post count to know that im 100% right about this
09-26-2007, 07:08 PM
#96
for starters it looks like the original poster was talking about an oem setup
second if you do have uneven pad transfer the thicker parts (of pad material on the rotor) may make the rotor at that spot heat less then an area next to it
the uneven heating will result in uneven temperature and expansion rates across the surface of the rotor (however so slight the difference)
causing it to warp
second if you do have uneven pad transfer the thicker parts (of pad material on the rotor) may make the rotor at that spot heat less then an area next to it
the uneven heating will result in uneven temperature and expansion rates across the surface of the rotor (however so slight the difference)
causing it to warp
yet you want to keep arguing for the sake of arguing
please go away
09-26-2007, 07:11 PM
#97
09-26-2007, 07:14 PM
#98
09-26-2007, 07:14 PM
#99
09-26-2007, 07:43 PM
#100
So let me get this straight, after reading 3 pages of this I SHOULDN'T go with OEM pads?
...My car has the shudder and vibes while slowing down from higher speeds now as well, I probably would never go with an OEM pad anyways but now I will not for sure.
...My car has the shudder and vibes while slowing down from higher speeds now as well, I probably would never go with an OEM pad anyways but now I will not for sure.
08-04-2009, 05:43 AM
#102
...and ONE MORE TIME, for the people in the CHEAP SEATS!!!....
Not unless you want to continue to have the same problem every 10-15k miles. Why not try something different?? You've got nothing to lose.
Hawks are MUCH better pads than OEM.
Do yourself ONE beter and get a 6th gen "big-brake" kit, with larger calipers and rotors...that'll give you more surface area and HEAT DISSAPATION to reduce the occurance of pad material transfer to your rotors, aka: "warped rotors".
Purchasing and installing a 6th gen bbk, will cost about $250 if memory serves, if you do it yourself.
That will MORE than pay for itself in ONE dealership visit for Lathing old rotors, deglazing pads, or replacing OEM rotors altogether!!!
gr
Hawks are MUCH better pads than OEM.
Do yourself ONE beter and get a 6th gen "big-brake" kit, with larger calipers and rotors...that'll give you more surface area and HEAT DISSAPATION to reduce the occurance of pad material transfer to your rotors, aka: "warped rotors".
Purchasing and installing a 6th gen bbk, will cost about $250 if memory serves, if you do it yourself.
That will MORE than pay for itself in ONE dealership visit for Lathing old rotors, deglazing pads, or replacing OEM rotors altogether!!!
gr
Last edited by ghostrider17; 08-04-2009 at 05:49 AM.
08-04-2009, 05:47 AM
#103
05-02-2012, 09:37 AM
#104
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bogota, COL
Posts: 87
I am in the same boat, what rotors are recomended? I am not really looking into cross drilled or slotted but these came out on the search at a reasonable price i think:
EBC USR series slotted for $151 the pair
I am replacing only the fronts. Or should I just go with whatever my local store sell me? Also, why would I need cryogenic treated rotors? is it worth? the wife drives it mostly but when i drive it I go a little spirited on it, the car sees a lot of hwy miles, also for pads i was thinking of Stoptech street performance pads, any thoughts?
EBC USR series slotted for $151 the pair
I am replacing only the fronts. Or should I just go with whatever my local store sell me? Also, why would I need cryogenic treated rotors? is it worth? the wife drives it mostly but when i drive it I go a little spirited on it, the car sees a lot of hwy miles, also for pads i was thinking of Stoptech street performance pads, any thoughts?
05-02-2012, 09:46 AM
#106
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 410
I am in the same boat, what rotors are recomended? I am not really looking into cross drilled or slotted but these came out on the search at a reasonable price i think:
EBC USR series slotted for $151 the pair
I am replacing only the fronts. Or should I just go with whatever my local store sell me? Also, why would I need cryogenic treated rotors? is it worth? the wife drives it mostly but when i drive it I go a little spirited on it, the car sees a lot of hwy miles, also for pads i was thinking of Stoptech street performance pads, any thoughts?
EBC USR series slotted for $151 the pair
I am replacing only the fronts. Or should I just go with whatever my local store sell me? Also, why would I need cryogenic treated rotors? is it worth? the wife drives it mostly but when i drive it I go a little spirited on it, the car sees a lot of hwy miles, also for pads i was thinking of Stoptech street performance pads, any thoughts?
05-02-2012, 11:06 AM
#107
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bogota, COL
Posts: 87
No autox (although you never know...
) but i've also seen the plain regular and cryo, what about those?what material are the OEM pads? I read ceramic somewhere? I thought ceramic was the better material? someone correct me if I'm wrong
Last edited by silver5andahalf; 05-02-2012 at 11:11 AM.
05-02-2012, 03:36 PM
#108
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 410
Better heat dissipation, improve braking response?
No autox (although you never know...) but i've also seen the plain regular and cryo, what about those?
what material are the OEM pads? I read ceramic somewhere? I thought ceramic was the better material? someone correct me if I'm wrong
No autox (although you never know...
) but i've also seen the plain regular and cryo, what about those?what material are the OEM pads? I read ceramic somewhere? I thought ceramic was the better material? someone correct me if I'm wrong
05-02-2012, 04:12 PM
#110
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 217
had this problem and when i check my control arm was bad so i change control arm and also new brake pads shake went away only thing now i get pulling to the right and lil bit vibration after i change control arm and pad also its make a loud clicking sound.
05-03-2012, 06:46 AM
#111
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bogota, COL
Posts: 87
There is my problem with this site, there is a lot of good info within but KIDS like you is what f-up this website, if you dont like me getting slotted rotors for MY car then just dont post, if you're not gonna help, donT be a ****, in the end it is my car and i'm here to get knowledge and make a more educated decision
05-03-2012, 07:08 AM
#112
Get some Brembo or EBC rotors, and some Akebono or Hawk pads, put them on yourself and call it a day! Out the door probably about $175, and the will last long time!
07-05-2012, 10:03 PM
#115
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 52
LOL not a bad bump. I will actually be putting on some hawk pads this weekend. Going to turn the rotors, hopefully they are ok. They are oem rotors and have had only one set of pads on them so far. Im kind of cheap in my old age so I'd rather spend 30 to have them turned then have to buy a new pair. Pretty happy with what i've read about the hawk pads. Funny, I worked at Infiniti the only time I had to change my brakes. (Pads and rotors) Figured all factory was the only way to go. I've had these same crappy brakes for 50k+ miles. (I do a LOT of freeway driving) Cant tell you how excited I am to be able to use the brakes and not have the steering wheel shake.
07-06-2012, 06:44 AM
#116
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bogota, COL
Posts: 87
LOL not a bad bump. I will actually be putting on some hawk pads this weekend. Going to turn the rotors, hopefully they are ok. They are oem rotors and have had only one set of pads on them so far. Im kind of cheap in my old age so I'd rather spend 30 to have them turned then have to buy a new pair. Pretty happy with what i've read about the hawk pads. Funny, I worked at Infiniti the only time I had to change my brakes. (Pads and rotors) Figured all factory was the only way to go. I've had these same crappy brakes for 50k+ miles. (I do a LOT of freeway driving) Cant tell you how excited I am to be able to use the brakes and not have the steering wheel shake.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post