Cattman 3" catback
04-22-2009, 06:51 PM
#82
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKIN BOUT. I spoke to Brian this afternoon and he was going through to reconfirm his numbers and interest. Just make sure you spoke to brian. If all the yeses (yeah - that's a word) placed their order I think you're number 5 of 8. So 3 more. I've posted on other boards to see if we can generate more interest. Let's see if it works.
04-23-2009, 05:38 AM
#86
I'm interested but wouldn't be for a while sorry guys. I like to make others aware that I'm interested in a great product and once money is right will be purchasing. I'm not fake for the OP. I have alot invested in the max.
Spending 740$ is nothing for some members. Brian at cattman has done a great job at anwsering questions for us. I'm personally not going to buy something for740$ without knowing some of the things that have been anwsered by asking questions and showing interest.
I digress but 3" for eventually boosting is going to be a project for me and I'm making sure this is the way to go. Thanks Brian
This also looks from reading with the right lift, this looks like an easy self DB. Just need the right tools.. This hooks up with the stock flanges so that's a nice sell point.
Spending 740$ is nothing for some members. Brian at cattman has done a great job at anwsering questions for us. I'm personally not going to buy something for740$ without knowing some of the things that have been anwsered by asking questions and showing interest.
I digress but 3" for eventually boosting is going to be a project for me and I'm making sure this is the way to go. Thanks Brian
This also looks from reading with the right lift, this looks like an easy self DB. Just need the right tools.. This hooks up with the stock flanges so that's a nice sell point.
Last edited by Tippy Toes; 04-23-2009 at 05:53 AM.
04-23-2009, 02:48 PM
#88
[quote=Tippy Toes;6997218]I digress but 3" for eventually boosting is going to be a project for me and I'm making sure this is the way to go. uote]
In talking with Brian, yes this is a great set up for a boosted vehicle. As a matter of fact the guys at Speed Force Racing noticed substantial gains over having a 2.5" system. It's my understanding it was Cattmans system. It's also been noted that even with a resonator there wasn't much difference in performance without it.
As far as 3" being the way to go, if you look around a lot of our brothers are doing it in local shops, and with great results. I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with the lead time. Go local get it in 7-10 business days. Order from Cattman and you have to wait until production orders are placed and then it's approximately 4 weeks. But the attention to ease of install, detail and craftsmanship (i.e product quality) makes it worth the wait IMO. Most guys, I think are just impatient, but at least we can see further confirmation that 3" systems are great for the 3.5L beast we all know and love.
I hope you're able to get in on this so you don't have to wait too much longer.
In talking with Brian, yes this is a great set up for a boosted vehicle. As a matter of fact the guys at Speed Force Racing noticed substantial gains over having a 2.5" system. It's my understanding it was Cattmans system. It's also been noted that even with a resonator there wasn't much difference in performance without it.
As far as 3" being the way to go, if you look around a lot of our brothers are doing it in local shops, and with great results. I'd be willing to bet it has something to do with the lead time. Go local get it in 7-10 business days. Order from Cattman and you have to wait until production orders are placed and then it's approximately 4 weeks. But the attention to ease of install, detail and craftsmanship (i.e product quality) makes it worth the wait IMO. Most guys, I think are just impatient, but at least we can see further confirmation that 3" systems are great for the 3.5L beast we all know and love.
I hope you're able to get in on this so you don't have to wait too much longer.
04-28-2009, 01:30 PM
#91
Sorry for not participating in this thread till now. Without boring everyone to tears, I'll simply note that this has been a very busy Spring season for me (part Cattman, part some other things that are required for survival) and unfortunately I haven't been able to herd a group of "soon" projects very effectively (primarily this 3" 5th gen catback and resurrecting three y-pipes for the 95-03 Max). OTOH, we've gotten a few new parts into production too.
Anyway, I've scanned the thread and will touch on a few topics that have been raised. A few guys have done a great job of answering questions that have come up, which I really appreciate.
First, the fundamental availability of this 3" system...
There's always been some interest in this system, but it has been very difficult to translate into the number of backorders we need to initiate production. To the extent that this is anyone's "fault", I accept blame because I should have been more active in organizing interest.
After sending out an email last week to everyone on a waiting list or had placed backorders, I only have two confirmed backorders, so let me be clear - enthusiasm and/or contributing to one of the 3" catback threads isn't enough, all that really counts is the number of backorders we're holding.
I'll repeat that do not require full payment in advance for backorders, but I am thinking about beginning to require a 10% deposit at the time we give the production order (typically 3-4 weeks before the parts are complete) because we've seen a sharp increase in the # of people who are not serious about backorders and cancel once the production is ready and we need to charge the CCs. I will emphasize that we would not collect any deposits until the minimum number of orders were already received and we trigger the production order.
I'll need a total of 7 orders to make this work. Please go ahead with the list in this thread, because its a good way to stimulate interest, but everyone on the list needs to also place a backorder. [Since I don't take down screen names when an order is placed, I'm not sure which screen names on the list correspond with the real names on the backorders.]
Now, I'll answer these questions/topics that have come up since March in this thread, in no particularl order:
1. As long as we have the minimum orders in hand, sure, we'd be glad to sell just a b-pipe, or just a muffler. Why not?
2. On the topic of custom exhausts... I'll simply say that we hear about and see horrific "custom" exhaust solutions every day. About 98% of all local exhaust shops lack the skills and/or equipment to do this properly or competantly. Sorry if I bruise any egos here, but sloppy one-piece (welded continuously, without flanges, from where they hacked off the y-pipe or cat flange and everything is welded together back to the muffler), aluminized steel tubing exhaust parts are for chumps. That kind of butchery isn't a good deal at any price.
Stainless steel catbacks can only be created by using a mandrel bender or custom-fabricating by welding together cut s/s bends. True mandrel benders are almost unheard of in local exhaust shops because the equipment is very expensive (simple benders start at about $100,000), they take up a large amount of floor space, and they can't utilize the equipment often enough to justify the purchase (that's why mandrel benders are typically found in exhaust production facilities, not shops that actually work on cars).
And yes, a good quality exhaust part must be made from stainless steel tubing (or ceramic-coated mild steel tubing, but it won't last as long and you'll end up paying about the same as s/s) to get optimal performance results. Stainless is not just about preventing corrosion, it adds horsepower due to it superior thermal containment properties. Skillful welding is critical too, and not just for strength and avoiding leaks - poor welding leaves a lot of material you can't see on the interior of the tubing, which can really muck up the exhaust flow, and cost power.
You'll occasionally run across small, primitive (old) mandrel benders in exhaust shops, but they typically lack the brass dies for stainless steel (very expensive and a different one is required for every tubing size), and they're not automated enough for most employees to use them to create an accurate part. Plus, most the old machines were not designed to mandrel bend stainless at all. With the right dies, an effective mandrel bender, and the talent to operate it, nothing could be easier - you just won't find this combination of assets in most cities, much less local exhaust shops.
Custom fitting and TIG-welding cut s/s bends is a true art form, and since the talent is so rare, the process so timestaking, and the cut bends so incredibly expensive, then YES, a $1000 price tag would be about right for a catback custom made from cut s/s bends. If its much less than that, someone is cutting some corners that shouldn't be (if creating the system from cut bends). Or telling you that it will be mandrel bent, but ends up being crush bent because they like the talent, dies, or whatever to actually use the machine. I'll also note that stainless steel doesn't like being crush bent on crush benders, which I suppose is the most fundamental reason that typical local shop don't do stainless steel work.
3. As some have noted, a 3" system will be louder than a smaller tube system, all other things (like resonator and muffler) being equal. The other sound component is that the pitch will be significantly lower due to the larger tubing size. You can load it up with a 30" truck resonator and larger muffler, but at some point this works against performance, particularly if the inside tube of the resonator has holes that are too large or, worst of all, little louvers at each hole that intrude into the exhaust stream (a real performance killer). Forget any muffler that isn't a straight-through design.
4. Some have asked why we (Cattman) haven't done some thorough dyno testing of this part, and the reason for that goes back to its genesis. There is only one 3" Cattman catback out there for the 00-03 Maxima, and that was originally made for a turbo-equipped car (we didn't make more because all of the apparent interest at that time evaporated - sound familiar?). We had no reason to test it, and even if we had, the results would be irrelevant for n/a engines. All the current interest behind this part comes from the second owner of the 3" prototype, and the dyno results he got (also posted in this thread) on a n/a VQ35DE.
5. Since the rear valance is notched for a dual tip muffler, the muffler on this system will also be dual tip.
I guess that's about it. Now that I've posted to this thread, I'll keep a better eye on it, and try to answer questions as they arise. Bottom line is that if you want this part, place an order for it.
Brian
Anyway, I've scanned the thread and will touch on a few topics that have been raised. A few guys have done a great job of answering questions that have come up, which I really appreciate.
First, the fundamental availability of this 3" system...
There's always been some interest in this system, but it has been very difficult to translate into the number of backorders we need to initiate production. To the extent that this is anyone's "fault", I accept blame because I should have been more active in organizing interest.
After sending out an email last week to everyone on a waiting list or had placed backorders, I only have two confirmed backorders, so let me be clear - enthusiasm and/or contributing to one of the 3" catback threads isn't enough, all that really counts is the number of backorders we're holding.
I'll repeat that do not require full payment in advance for backorders, but I am thinking about beginning to require a 10% deposit at the time we give the production order (typically 3-4 weeks before the parts are complete) because we've seen a sharp increase in the # of people who are not serious about backorders and cancel once the production is ready and we need to charge the CCs. I will emphasize that we would not collect any deposits until the minimum number of orders were already received and we trigger the production order.
I'll need a total of 7 orders to make this work. Please go ahead with the list in this thread, because its a good way to stimulate interest, but everyone on the list needs to also place a backorder. [Since I don't take down screen names when an order is placed, I'm not sure which screen names on the list correspond with the real names on the backorders.]
Now, I'll answer these questions/topics that have come up since March in this thread, in no particularl order:
1. As long as we have the minimum orders in hand, sure, we'd be glad to sell just a b-pipe, or just a muffler. Why not?
2. On the topic of custom exhausts... I'll simply say that we hear about and see horrific "custom" exhaust solutions every day. About 98% of all local exhaust shops lack the skills and/or equipment to do this properly or competantly. Sorry if I bruise any egos here, but sloppy one-piece (welded continuously, without flanges, from where they hacked off the y-pipe or cat flange and everything is welded together back to the muffler), aluminized steel tubing exhaust parts are for chumps. That kind of butchery isn't a good deal at any price.
Stainless steel catbacks can only be created by using a mandrel bender or custom-fabricating by welding together cut s/s bends. True mandrel benders are almost unheard of in local exhaust shops because the equipment is very expensive (simple benders start at about $100,000), they take up a large amount of floor space, and they can't utilize the equipment often enough to justify the purchase (that's why mandrel benders are typically found in exhaust production facilities, not shops that actually work on cars).
And yes, a good quality exhaust part must be made from stainless steel tubing (or ceramic-coated mild steel tubing, but it won't last as long and you'll end up paying about the same as s/s) to get optimal performance results. Stainless is not just about preventing corrosion, it adds horsepower due to it superior thermal containment properties. Skillful welding is critical too, and not just for strength and avoiding leaks - poor welding leaves a lot of material you can't see on the interior of the tubing, which can really muck up the exhaust flow, and cost power.
You'll occasionally run across small, primitive (old) mandrel benders in exhaust shops, but they typically lack the brass dies for stainless steel (very expensive and a different one is required for every tubing size), and they're not automated enough for most employees to use them to create an accurate part. Plus, most the old machines were not designed to mandrel bend stainless at all. With the right dies, an effective mandrel bender, and the talent to operate it, nothing could be easier - you just won't find this combination of assets in most cities, much less local exhaust shops.
Custom fitting and TIG-welding cut s/s bends is a true art form, and since the talent is so rare, the process so timestaking, and the cut bends so incredibly expensive, then YES, a $1000 price tag would be about right for a catback custom made from cut s/s bends. If its much less than that, someone is cutting some corners that shouldn't be (if creating the system from cut bends). Or telling you that it will be mandrel bent, but ends up being crush bent because they like the talent, dies, or whatever to actually use the machine. I'll also note that stainless steel doesn't like being crush bent on crush benders, which I suppose is the most fundamental reason that typical local shop don't do stainless steel work.
3. As some have noted, a 3" system will be louder than a smaller tube system, all other things (like resonator and muffler) being equal. The other sound component is that the pitch will be significantly lower due to the larger tubing size. You can load it up with a 30" truck resonator and larger muffler, but at some point this works against performance, particularly if the inside tube of the resonator has holes that are too large or, worst of all, little louvers at each hole that intrude into the exhaust stream (a real performance killer). Forget any muffler that isn't a straight-through design.
4. Some have asked why we (Cattman) haven't done some thorough dyno testing of this part, and the reason for that goes back to its genesis. There is only one 3" Cattman catback out there for the 00-03 Maxima, and that was originally made for a turbo-equipped car (we didn't make more because all of the apparent interest at that time evaporated - sound familiar?). We had no reason to test it, and even if we had, the results would be irrelevant for n/a engines. All the current interest behind this part comes from the second owner of the 3" prototype, and the dyno results he got (also posted in this thread) on a n/a VQ35DE.
5. Since the rear valance is notched for a dual tip muffler, the muffler on this system will also be dual tip.
I guess that's about it. Now that I've posted to this thread, I'll keep a better eye on it, and try to answer questions as they arise. Bottom line is that if you want this part, place an order for it.
Brian
Last edited by Cattman; 04-28-2009 at 02:01 PM.
04-28-2009, 01:59 PM
#93
04-29-2009, 07:29 PM
#96
For one, there's the damn newbie thread. http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...on-thread.html
Two, there's the exhaust thread. http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...hlight=exhaust
Three, learn how to search, seriously. http://forums.maxima.org/search.php
04-29-2009, 07:44 PM
#97
04-30-2009, 10:55 AM
#98
05-01-2009, 05:23 PM
#99
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,898
Sometimes it just plain hurts to think...
05-04-2009, 01:21 AM
#102
05-04-2009, 01:25 AM
#103
I was hoping to have this exhaust on by the end of this month for freakmont(all nissan meet in nor cal) but it is now may and my hopes are slowly fading.
05-04-2009, 02:21 AM
#104
What other plans can we implement to get people to start ordering? As I see it, it is you, maxurlife and myself. This means 4 friggin more people.
I almost feel like just PMing everyone who has ever posted in a 3" cattman thread...damnit.
I almost feel like just PMing everyone who has ever posted in a 3" cattman thread...damnit.
05-04-2009, 02:25 AM
#105
05-04-2009, 02:40 AM
#107
Um.....a mandrel bend exhaust is a rarity which would be hard to find anywhere and I'm not about to pay the cost in which will occur for getting it mandrel bent and an exhaust that won't be made out of stainless steel. If I have to wait, I will even if it is past Freakmont.
05-04-2009, 12:53 PM
#110
05-04-2009, 03:02 PM
#111
HotshotVQ35
datdude20
zero2sixtyZ
321VQ35MAX
Revs2Hard
Brianm0121
Max0224
Weeble1
Each of these inviduals have expressed interest in the product. Was wondering if we could get an update from them?
datdude20
zero2sixtyZ
321VQ35MAX
Revs2Hard
Brianm0121
Max0224
Weeble1
Each of these inviduals have expressed interest in the product. Was wondering if we could get an update from them?
05-04-2009, 05:17 PM
#116
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,898
05-04-2009, 05:37 PM
#117
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,898
4. Some have asked why we (Cattman) haven't done some thorough dyno testing of this part, and the reason for that goes back to its genesis. There is only one 3" Cattman catback out there for the 00-03 Maxima, and that was originally made for a turbo-equipped car (we didn't make more because all of the apparent interest at that time evaporated - sound familiar?). We had no reason to test it, and even if we had, the results would be irrelevant for n/a engines. All the current interest behind this part comes from the second owner of the 3" prototype, and the dyno results he got (also posted in this thread) on a n/a VQ35DE.
05-04-2009, 05:39 PM
#118
Hey Brian, now that there seems to be more interest in the 3" catback on n/a cars, you don't think it would be worth it to build one exhaust system and do a dyno? You would make that money back on one sale, and could even sell the actual one that you tested for profit. I think that would influence some "on the fence" people, and I know personally, it would make me feel much more comfortable if I saw a dyno sheet from the seller that said the 3" made good horsepower gains in addition to the one that's out there now. If you sold one system based off that dyno, then it would seem to be worth the investment. If I'm incorrect, then let me know, but it's just a suggestion that seems to make sense to me.
Or do you mean on a fully stock car? Chances are, there won't be too many of those interested in a 3" catback.
05-04-2009, 05:43 PM
#119
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,898
Last edited by wyche89; 05-04-2009 at 05:46 PM.
05-04-2009, 05:59 PM
#120
Hey, this thread is looking a bit lively!
Depending on how many more interested buyers Brian might get, I don't see why he wouldn't do this. We could easily make this happen. I'd gladly vouch my car if it didn't already have the stuff done that it does.
Depending on how many more interested buyers Brian might get, I don't see why he wouldn't do this. We could easily make this happen. I'd gladly vouch my car if it didn't already have the stuff done that it does.