Omegasrk

iTrader: (1)

I am wondering how many of you guys who own a 5spd 2000 Maxima are thinking of getting a LSD for their car like me? What sort of informations have you guys have gathered? Pls share the knowledge. Some of my questions and answers I have found out about this project are as follows:
1) Q: Are the 1995-1999 5spd non-LSD tranny the same as the 2000 5spd non-LSD tranny?
A: The purpose of this question is because Cattman is planning on selling the Quaife LSD for the 95-99 Maximas. According to my local Nissan dealer (Wonderies in Alhambra, CA), the part numbers for the internal pieces of the gearbox between 95-99 are different to that of the 2000. Even if the parts are similar in design, Nissan had this stupid idea on giving them different part numbers. In particular, the differential case have different part numbers, this is the part that the Quiafe LSD replaces. The only way to see if it is the same is to order both the 95-99 and 2000 differental case and do a visual inspection. BTW, for those who don't know what is a differential case, it is the internal part that connects to the final gear inside the 5spd tranny. From that final gear, it goes to your half-shafts then to your drive shaft and then to your wheels.

2) Q: What is the difference between the 2000 5spd and the 2001 20th AE 5spd LSD tranny?
A: According to Wonderies, the 2001 AE is a total different gearbox. The gears 1-5 and Reverse are the same parts, but due to the design of the LSD, the whole gearbox had to be redesigned to allow it to fit inside. But the good news is that the rest of the drive train is the same. The half-shafts, drive-shafts, etc., basically everything that is outside of the gearbox have the same part numbers. Therefore, if you want and LSD, you would need to buy a the entire gearbox and do a swap at a good tranny shop. Here is the part number on the 2001 AE LSD for those who want it: (SES LSD 32010-2Y917). Wonderies Nissan quoted this at $2134. The service person compared this to the 95-99 LSD at $2200 just as a FYI. In comparision, the Quaife LSD would cost somewhere around $1000-1500, if by stroke of luck does fit our tranny.

Now, this is the information I've found so far from Wonderies. Not that I don't trust them, I plan to ask the same question to another Nissan dealer to see if their answers are any different. Also I plan to ask Stillen for any suggestions, and Nismo (310-538-2610) to see what do they offer. Like I said earlier, if anyone have anymore knowledge, pls enlighten us. Thx...=)

brianw

iTrader: (3)

Correct.

To swap the VLSD to a non-LSD car you will need both the tranny, differential and half-shafts. Don in Texas did an I30t VLSD swap in to his gen4 automatic and needed all of those parts.

I'm waiting for the Quaife.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I thought the Y2K 5-sps already have the viscous LSD?

brianw

iTrader: (3)

Nope, only the AE....

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

I still have my 2000 brochure .. we have a viscous LSD on the SE ... btw ... what is an LSD?

Maxx-s-ter

Uhhhhh!!! The only car with an LSD is the 2k I30 and the AE. What everyone else has is a Open Differential vs. the Limited Slip differential (LSD), the benefit is that with the Open Diff. when under hard acceleration, specially under cornering... the drive wheel with the least traction will spin faster than the one with the most traction... This is not the case with a LSD... you get very limited play between both drive wheels... so both wheels will spin at the same rate... and Voila!.. you get better cornering speed and better straight acceleration.... that is why Hard Core racers must have a LSD (some take the eazy route and have their diff.'s WELDED!!.. that's all good at the track.. but if you have to drive the thing in the street you can't turn... because your outside wheel will have to travel farther than the inside wheel... therefore you need some "LIMITED SLIP"...
The differance between the Quaife LSD uses a series of clutches inside to allow some slip/play between the drive wheels to enable turning while still maintaining torque to both wheels... The Nissan LSD is a viscous type, which uses the fluid pressure inside, due to one side spining faster than the other, to tighten/lock both sides when it senses slip in one of them. It's good but the Quaife is a lot better. A lot of pro's use it.

Anyways I hope Qaife comes up with one... I saw a poll on Groupbuyscenter.com one time for the 2k Maxima... but don't know what became of it.

Keven97SE

That's correct. The VLSD tranny has a different case.

I've been researching this upgrade for my 97 for a week now. From what I've been told, the main change to the VLSD tranny case is at the driver's side. Therefore, you'll need a new driver's side halfshaft to go with the VLSD tranny. I've been *told* that the wheel bearing on that side is slightly different, too...ie, you'll have to press out the old bearing in the steering knuckle and press in a new bearing...but that doesn't sound right to me. I'll find out next week when my used 96 VLSD tranny gets installed.

As far as differences between the 4th and 5th gen 5spds, the information I have is that 1st and 3rd gears were stregthened. Not a bad idea...the 5spds seem to be pretty weak...but you *most likely* could put a 4th gen tranny into a 5th gen without issue. Reliability *might* be an issue, but only to the degree that reliability is an issue with 4th gen 5spds. (5th gens only make another 12 ftlbs stock, so the increased load is minimal.) Nissan strengthened the tranny because it was weak, not because the 2K made so much more torque that it was a requirement.

Used 4th gen Maxima and I30 5spd VLSD trannies are available for anywhere from $800-$1400. I've seen some 99 low-mile trannies for $1000.

That having been said, unless your tranny is broken like mine is and just want to upgrade your existing 2K tranny, I'd definitely wait for the Quaiffe LSD to come out. Should be around $1300 and will fit your existing tranny case. It's a far more effective and robost LSD, and you retain your strengthened 2K 5spd internals. A little more expensive in the long run, though, since you'll essentially have to rebuild your existing tranny. The parts cose (upgrade existing tranny to Quaiffe vs. upgrade to used 4th gen VLSD 5spd) is similar, but the labor cost for the Quaiffe will be another couple hundred$$ at least.

[Edited by Keven97SE on 11-08-2000 at 10:34 AM]

GT_icecream

iTrader: (5)

Hey Maxx-s-ter, i got a question about the diff between Open Diff. and LSD. I thought if the wheel with the least traction spins faster, that will yield better cornering..right? ( i think the Honda Prelude SH has the similar device) So from your explaination, it seems like the Open Diff. will provide better cornering ability than the LSD......but isn't LSD supposedly better than Open Diff. ? Can you help me on that one? or can any tech guys out there?

dvyuan

You have the right idea, but you have it backwards. A open diff will send power to the wheel that does not have any traction where as a VLSD will send more power to the wheel WITH more traction.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

It's very,very simple. I've posted links and tried to explain this a dozen times.

open differential = power = wheel that slips to the wheel that slips.

any type of limited slip differential = power = wheel that slips to the wheel that grips.

GT_icecream

iTrader: (5)

o~~o~~o~~h~~~~~ got it !
thanks guys

Keven97SE

Yes, a LSD tranny is better than an open diff tranny.

An open diff is a rather lame device. Simply disconnects the inside wheel during a turn since the inside and outside wheels need to rotate at different speeds. Think about that for a second if you don't yet understand the concept. If your car tries to make a turn with a 5 ft radius (I realize that's impossible), and both front wheels are 5ft apart or whatever, the outside wheel has a much longer path it has to travel, so it needs to roll a lot faster than the inside wheel to make it to the end of the curve at the same time as the inside wheel. Make sense?

With an open differential, during straight driving when you apply the gas, both wheels are powered. It locks up, locking both driveshafts. The problem comes when you lose traction at one wheel. An open diff will transfer power to that "bad" wheel, and the "good" wheel with the better traction will get less traction...and you end up not accelerating as fast as the engine allows, because a lot of the acceleration is lost through spinning the bad wheel uselessly. In the worst case, (one wheel on wet ice, hence no traction), you go nowhere. The wheel on the ice spins while the other doesn't move at all. Get your buddy with a truck (equipped with a LSD, ideally ).

During aggressive cornering, an open diff also hurts you. If you stomp on the gas when exiting a corner, the diff will actually lock up both wheels. Since the inside wheel needs to ideally spin slower, the inside wheel actually will lose traction and do an "inside wheel burnout". When you're not on the gas in a corner (just coming around at low throttle), the inside wheel isn't powered at all, and all the stress is on the outside wheel to pull the car around, so the car handles with a little more understeer. If you could power that inside wheel also, but spin it more slowly like it needs, then you'd reduce understeer a little because that inside tire would help pull the car around the corner.

A viscous limited slip differential performs like the name implies. It limits the amount of slip by the inside front wheel around corners. It powers that inside wheel when exiting the corner, but allows it to spin more slowly. This lets you stomp on the gas harder and sooner when exiting a corner. It acts just like an open diff when just coming around the corner at low throttle, though...it still disconnects the inside wheel when coming around. It's only when you step on the gas that it "kicks in". A VLSD looks internally just like an open diff, just has a viscous coupler...it's still "open" on the inside.

Now a torsen limited slip diff like the Quaiffe WILL help when coming around a corner at low throttle. It NEVER disconnects the inside wheel. It ALWAYS transfers power to both wheels, but transfers more torque to the outside wheel and spins it faster than the inside wheel. It does a *perfect* job. A torsen diff looks totally different on the inside. It's a box full of tight-fitting worm gears, etc. It's not open at all so everything's always fitting tightly together...no slop.

A viscous limited slip differential helps when accelerating in a straight line because (like the name implies), it again limits the amount of slip of the wheel with worse traction. Unlike the open diff that would send all torque to the wheel with no traction, the VLSD would limit this and send some of the traction to the better traction wheel.

Once again, though, the Quaiffe/torsen diff is perfect. Unlike the VLSD that would still send some power to that wheel with no traction, the Quaiffe would send ALL power to the wheel with ALL the traction. Dem diffs iz SMART!

[Edited by Keven97SE on 11-08-2000 at 12:15 PM]

GT_icecream

iTrader: (5)

WOW, Keven97SE, that is a *very* detailed explainattion (and it's an understatement ) !!!

I gotta print this page out and keep it as my bible...
thanks

Maxx-s-ter

mhgsx

Wrong-o! Unfortunately for us, Nissan US decided the VLSD was not 'needed' by us Americans. The Canadians, on the other hand, they're considered much more deserving. So, that said, the Canadian SE's do HAVE the VLSD in their 2k models. What's that aboot, eh?

madmax2k

If I remember correctly, all of Quaife's designs are gear based and dont use clutches. The clutch type diffs need periodic rebuilds while the geared ones do not.

Keven97SE

Ahhhh, so THAT'S why the inside wheel fries in a corner...weight shift lightens that inside wheel so much that it becomes the easiest wheel to spin, hence it gets the power. Makes perfect sense. I was always a bit fuzzy on that part.