Brake Bias and the 6th Gen BBK
11-13-2009, 03:10 PM
#1
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Brake Bias and the 6th Gen BBK
I've been doing some reading about the 6th gen BBK upgrade and I have a few questions regarding the brake bias "issue".
From what I gather, it seems like there won't be a brake bias issue with the 6th BBK, but just for reassurance, does anyone happen to know the piston diameter for the 2004+ Maxima calipers and the piston diameter for the 2k2+2k3 calipers?
I am curious to see if there is a significant difference in the piston diameter between the two calipers, as this is what would cause a brake bias issue if there is one.
Also, would it be possible to use more "grippy" pads for the rear and less "grippy" pads for the front to somewhat offset the difference in brake bias caused by the BBK?
Perhaps Hawk HPS in the rear and a generic ceramic for the fronts?
It seems that if you use pads with a higher coefficient of friction in the rear and lower coefficient for the front, it would take more line pressure to lock up the front brakes, therefore allowing you to press the pedal harder and give more pressure to the rear, but the increased pressure on the rear would have a greater effect due to the more "grippy" pads, thus restoring a more normal brake bias.
This may seem to negate the benefits of a BBK, but I only want the BBK because it can handle more heat so my rotors won't warp as easily.
Sorry if this is hard to read, its kind of hard to explain.
I have no clue if this will work, so any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
From what I gather, it seems like there won't be a brake bias issue with the 6th BBK, but just for reassurance, does anyone happen to know the piston diameter for the 2004+ Maxima calipers and the piston diameter for the 2k2+2k3 calipers?
I am curious to see if there is a significant difference in the piston diameter between the two calipers, as this is what would cause a brake bias issue if there is one.
Also, would it be possible to use more "grippy" pads for the rear and less "grippy" pads for the front to somewhat offset the difference in brake bias caused by the BBK?
Perhaps Hawk HPS in the rear and a generic ceramic for the fronts?
It seems that if you use pads with a higher coefficient of friction in the rear and lower coefficient for the front, it would take more line pressure to lock up the front brakes, therefore allowing you to press the pedal harder and give more pressure to the rear, but the increased pressure on the rear would have a greater effect due to the more "grippy" pads, thus restoring a more normal brake bias.
This may seem to negate the benefits of a BBK, but I only want the BBK because it can handle more heat so my rotors won't warp as easily.
Sorry if this is hard to read, its kind of hard to explain.
I have no clue if this will work, so any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
11-14-2009, 06:05 AM
#3
Even though I have 6th gen front brakes, I don't know the piston diameters. Although, regardless of piston diameter changes (clamping force changes), the bias will move frontward due to the increase rotor size (more braking torque for a given frictional force). With this statement in mind, I haven't noticed issues due to the increased front bias, but I've not done much threshold braking to explore the boundary (PBR/Axxiss Ultimates all around).
Rear bias can be restored with more aggressive (higher coefficient of friction) pads in the rear. This is a common pad setup for non-abs equipped miatas; I use OE pads front and Hawk HP+ rear.
Rear bias can be restored with more aggressive (higher coefficient of friction) pads in the rear. This is a common pad setup for non-abs equipped miatas; I use OE pads front and Hawk HP+ rear.
11-14-2009, 08:16 AM
#4
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Yeah I forgot about the larger rotor diameter (stupid)
Every time I try to read about what pads have a higher friction coefficient, I get contradicting results.
Are the Axxis Ultimates more "grippy" than the Hawk HPS?
I was originally going to get Pro-Stop ceramics for the front, and the Hawks for the rear, but I'm beginning to wonder if there is an even better combination.
Edit: I've been checking out the Axxis website, and it seems like using the Deluxe Ceramic for the front and the Ultimate Ceramic for the rear would be a good combination. What do you think? Only downside is the price.
Every time I try to read about what pads have a higher friction coefficient, I get contradicting results.
Are the Axxis Ultimates more "grippy" than the Hawk HPS?
I was originally going to get Pro-Stop ceramics for the front, and the Hawks for the rear, but I'm beginning to wonder if there is an even better combination.
Edit: I've been checking out the Axxis website, and it seems like using the Deluxe Ceramic for the front and the Ultimate Ceramic for the rear would be a good combination. What do you think? Only downside is the price.
Last edited by Unklejoe; 11-14-2009 at 08:51 AM.
11-14-2009, 09:30 AM
#5
Brake pads preferences are quite personal with varied anecdotal accounts (like this one).
You can try to more aggressive rear pads, but may want to try one compound at all corners first. I prefer pads with a strong initial bite so I generally like high coefficient of friction pads at the front.
While I have not used Hawk pads much, others I know and trust greatly prefer the HP+ to the HPS for the increased friction levels.
I really liked the older Cobalt GT-s pads, but the new compound has found some poor reviews. I found the Axxiss/PBR Ultimates were close to the GT-s, but with a lower temperature handling abilities and price.
I currently prefer the Ferodo DS2500, but these can be hard to find, fairly expensive and require some heat (they don't seem to work well for the first few cold stops). For these reasons I chose the PBR pads for the Maxima (daily).
Be warned all the pads listed generate a good amount of dust, and will likely not last as long as OE pads.
BTW, I envy your LSD.
You can try to more aggressive rear pads, but may want to try one compound at all corners first. I prefer pads with a strong initial bite so I generally like high coefficient of friction pads at the front.
While I have not used Hawk pads much, others I know and trust greatly prefer the HP+ to the HPS for the increased friction levels.
I really liked the older Cobalt GT-s pads, but the new compound has found some poor reviews. I found the Axxiss/PBR Ultimates were close to the GT-s, but with a lower temperature handling abilities and price.
I currently prefer the Ferodo DS2500, but these can be hard to find, fairly expensive and require some heat (they don't seem to work well for the first few cold stops). For these reasons I chose the PBR pads for the Maxima (daily).
Be warned all the pads listed generate a good amount of dust, and will likely not last as long as OE pads.
BTW, I envy your LSD.
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