2slow

iTrader: (6)

Under the Eagle-Flag it should say, 'America, F**k Yeah!!!.' That will show'em.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

How much of a market is there for any performance part on a 7-10 year old 4 door sport sedan? Regardless of that, Aaaron, cattman, etc are all making parts for us.

If these guys are shooting for this market, then offering parts that are functional and not currently offered is a way to reach that market. Considering you have headers/Y, and can tune, even if you have an aftermarket 2.5", there are huge gains to be had with a cutout. I'm sure gains could even be proven on a fully stock exhaust.

It would be relatively easy to develop and quick to produce (just 1 jig), and would not have to compete with a summit generic piece since it would be a bolt-in finished product.

SteveB123

iTrader: (2)

Oh yes....on an imported car. Yessssssss......

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Thank you.

Thank you.



The exhaust cutout is a GREAT modification to do to your Maxima, even if you have stock headers and Ypipe. The best part of a cutout is that you can keep your stock muffler and Bpipe and remain quiet on the street. It's perfect for those that want to be a sleeper on the street, then open it up anytime they want!

I would always shave .15 in the 1/4 mile everytime I would open my cutout, when compared to my stock muffler and Bpipe. So it's a very noticeable HP gain! Approximately 10+ hp!

This modification is a possibility. I would not supply an electric cutout. But, I may be able to work out a deal with McCord in order for you to get a small discount if you purchase the NWP cutout testpipe. More than likely, it will be a testpipe with a 2.5" cutout with just a cap that won't leak.

It is pretty nice to be able to unbolt your catalytic converter and install this in a matter of minutes. I believe that if I am able to prove a decent HP gain, the exhaust cutout will catch on. Though, I believe that an exhaust cutout is not for those that want a loud and nice sounding exhaust. My whole philosophy is that there is a time and place for everything. Have a stock sounding exhaust on the street and open that cutout for the track. I am not a big fan of extremely loud exhausts on the street regardless if you have a 4 banger or V8.

Also, the electric exhaust cutout may leak slightly. You will still be quiet on the street if you use the stock muffler, but it won't sound quite as clean as before since you will be removing your catalytic converter, which is a muffler in itself.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

I completely agree with all of this. It's funny to me that people just assume it won't help, when in almost every case open exhaust = more power. I'd imagine the headers/Y-pipe provide more than enough back pressure, since that's the normal mag-racer response.

Yeah I wasn't sure an electric cutout would work well unless you found a good supplier or something, but that's not a big deal. Being able to order a cut-out test pipe that will bolt right in would be great!

knight_yyz

iTrader: (40)

dandymax was running a similar setup, his cat is gone and there is a test pipe with a bolt on plate for the cut out. Takes 2 minutes to remove the plate for the extra horsepower.

Reizy

iTrader: (48)

How about something brake related? I know Matt and Jeff's products but how about brackets for Wilwood 4 piston calipers? Hats for 2 piece rotors? Complete BBK?

Aaron92SE

iTrader: (128)

Here's what my cutout looks like with the McCord electric cutout. If NWP made one of these, it would look a hundred times better.

Unklejoe

iTrader: (6)

^^^ I would buy that.

User 12822

iTrader: (1)

I do, price. Like I said, summits works great and its cheap. NWP would have to price it accordingly. And just think of the number of people who actually buy performance parts for maximas to begin with, now factor in people who actually even know what a cut out is. I'm not against the idea, but I think Aaron might have better luck producing some other products. There is already a cheap and affordable cut out option on the market, lets look towards things we want that we cant really find anywhere else.
If you dont understand that there are certainly more useful products NWP can create, compared to making a product thats already cheap, than there is no point in continuing debate with you.

If I was Aaron I'd personally create a lip that cost $120 ish or less. We could use more body kit pieces that arent ricey. Theyd sell well too, anytime anyone puts a lip up for sale its gone instantly. This should turn NWP good profit and help it grow.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Combine the price of the summit piece with going to an exhaust shop and having it installed (considering most of these consumers don't have facilities to install it themselves), and you have a pretty easy overhead for pricing. By your reasoning, cattman is an idiot for selling a catback... we could just buy piping and mufflers from summit and weld it up for 1/3 the price! You could repeat that for intakes, etc etc.... That makes no sense, right? Installing a cut out is not nearly as complicated, but the concept remains.

People pay for the ease of a bolt-in mod and as I said, the gains can very easily be proven. I would wager a pretty big bet that a cutout is the biggest bang-for-buck bolton mod minus nitrous (and a great combo with nitrous) for us and it would just require removing 4 bolts and jacking up the car to install.

A lip kit seems like a good concept, but would be much more difficult to develop, produce, and ship than his other products thus far. I am not sure of Aaron's facilities, but I doubt he's setup to make body kit pieces. I'll let him respond on that.

"more useful products" is subjective, and you arguing with me about an easily produced item that we do not have a pre-assembled option for is pretty ridiculous. "useful" to me would be a 3" ID maf tube and a bolt-in cutout test pipe, and apparently for you is a "non-ricer"(if that is possible) lip kit. See what I mean by subjective?

viperboy

iTrader: (7)

Oh, I wasn't mocking you Rochester. Scottwax mentioned a snorkel hood scoop and I just did a quick search to find the most obnoxious thing I could just for fun

User 12822

iTrader: (1)

Eh I paid $35 to have my cut out welded in, but I'll agree with you, I doubt everyone will have easy access to a cheap New York shop like I do. I'll go ahead and agree that an NWP cut out would be easier to bolt on and off.

However I see a lot of problems that Aaron will see if he produces it as wel as some misconception you posted.

1st It is nowhere near as good of a best bang for your buck mod when compared to spray. Cut outs in general are used for turbo/SC and nitrous cars. Thats when the more free flowing cut out exhaust really helps put up numbers. On a naturally aspirated car a cut out really only helps if the car has plenty of torque to make up for the loss.
Cut outs on an NA car will drop torque will increasing top end power. If you are barely has enough torque to begin with, a cut out is going to ruin your 60' because youre getting sacked for valuable torque.
That being said we need to apply these cut out facts to maximas. Six speed vq35s generally put up better 1/4 times with a cut out because there is already too much torque in 1st gear. Even on beefy radials I've prsonally watched just a basic bolt on 6 speed spin. The cut out helps because it takes away torque and gives high end. This reduces the spinning and allows the cars to put up better times. So for 6 speed people an NWP cut out would be great. However, how many people with 6 speed Maximas actually are drag racing enthusiasts? Sure plenty go to the track, but how many would actually be willing to get under their car to bolt on and off a cut out every time they go race? Add to that there really aren't even that many 6 speeds out there to begin with lol.
For auto vq35s maybe someone else can comment but a cut out definitely helps, like Aaron had described. The problem I see is that autos cant launch as hard or as high as 6 speeds without tranny work, so that low end torque may be more valuable. Overall though a cut out would help the autos as well, just not nearly as much as the 6 speeds IMO.
As an owner of a 2000 I can tell you a cut out is pretty damn useless for a 3.0 unless you have full bolt ons + 5 speeds. The 3.0 is a great motor but doesnt have the plethora of torque the 35 does. You see up top gaina but down low you get screwed. I am running an electric cut out on my auto to solve this problem, I leave it closed for launch then open it half through first gear. It helps knock .7 tenths ish off the 1/4. The real reason I use the cut out anyway is for spray. Auto 3.0s need all the torque we can get, a cut out isnt too much a smart idea.
So to sum it up, a cut out is best for nitrous, turbo/sc cars, manual cars with a whole lot of torque. Right there you eliminate almost 99% of your possible market. Dont get me wrong I'll be really happy if NWP makes a cut out, all I'm saying is that I think the market is too small to generate enough profit. And if the market is small, the price is going to get driven up. Then the summit and other options become the cheaper and more likely buy. There are plenty more products we need.
Maybe Aaron can comment on a lip kit or other plastic like products. I stress the lip kit because there is high demand for good body kits pieces and I have no doubts that Aaron could work up what would end up being the best looking body kit pieces for less in cost. Ya cant beat that.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

I understood, Viper, but thanks anyway.

Aaron, it reads like you're on to something with this cut-out idea. Very cool. It's not for me, electric or otherwise... but for the Maxima owner who drags or tracks their car, it makes total sense.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

The Stillen Front Lip for the 5.5 looks really good from the front. Really, really good. But there is an awkwardness to it as it wraps around the sides. The side fitment is the thing that ruins it for me, and pushes it over the edge into "ricey". (That's just one man's opinion, guys. Don't all you Stillen Lippers jump on me at once.)

Now, if there were a front lip that hugged the sides better, without being so bulbous, I'd be wanting that.

mist max2000

iTrader: (16)

in terms of the cutout,.. i think i would only be interested if it were an electric one,..just my .02,...

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Maybe you missed it in my post. Here it is quoted so it's easier for you to read. "a cutout is the biggest bang-for-buck bolton mod minus nitrous (and a great combo with nitrous)"

Now when I say minus nitrous, most people would come to the conclusion that I am saying nitrous is a bigger bang for buck mod, then stating that cutout and nitrous together is a great combo.


And you think I'm misconceiving? This is one of the biggest sacks of horse **** I've ever read on this forum. Firstly, cutouts are used on N/A cars just as often as any other car. Why do you think 95% of the cars at the drag strip are so loud and backfires can be seen underneath the car? I'm just going to guess that your opinions are coming from a 4cyl import community, which completely explains your unfounded and completely wrong belief that cutouts are only "used" or "good for" F/I vehicles.

The torque loss that is seen is at partial throttle and very low RPMs, which NOBODY sees at the track except that brief moment that you're launching on street tires, and barely hooking anyway. There may already be dynos on this forum that prove my point, but if not maybe I'll eventually attend a dyno day.

Ugh this is even worse... I considered spending some time arguing about this, but the saying about idiots dragging you down to their level comes to mind. Good luck with all that, fido. Just try to remember this thread was created to suggest ideas for NWP, not argue logistics about someone's idea because you don't agree.

On that note, I'll go ahead and peace out of this thread. I said my piece to aaron and (strangely) he agreed that a cutout would be a good product with easily proven gains and a possibility for him in the future.


Oh here we go, I found one. This is on a bolton 6-speed comparing cutout to his 2.5" exhaust. Obviously it's only a HP curve, but since we know that HP is just a derivative of torque, an increase in HP at any RPM is directly related to an increase in torque. Therefore any torque loss would show as a loss in HP here. Blue line is cutout open, red line cutout closed. Weird how he makes power through the entire RPM band, huh?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

You both know when you've gone too far, right?

Pull that passion back into something positive, and we all benefit.

User 12822

iTrader: (1)

All those N/A cars at the track with open cut outs at the track have a good amount of work done.
As for the bold, great immature assumption. I'm running a cut out even when I run naturally aspirated at the moment, I did my homework.

And haha that brief moment I'm launching? Come on now please dont tell me youre serious. The launch and the 60' is practically the most important part of a drag. Every tenth of your 60' is two off your quarter, so its important you pull a good 60'. On 3.0s with bolt ons you need all the torque you can get down low to get moving, a cut out hurts that unless you have some serious work done or fi/spray.
If you were actually so right you should so easily be able to prove me wrong, the fact that you're getting so frustrated kinda shows me something...

All your graph proved is that 2.5 inch exhaust is way too restrictive on 3.5s. And find me a graph that shows hp and torque, then we can talk.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

In an effort to get this thread back on topic, I won't respond to all of this dribble, but on this part I just couldn't resist.

For a little education, HP is a direct product of torque, so looking at a straight HP graph or a straight torque graph tells you the EXACT same story. A dyno only measures torque, HP can be calculated using that number. It is impossible to lose torque at say 3k rpms, yet gain HP. They go hand in hand. You're saying a cutout causes torque loss, but that graph is showing gains even at low RPMs. I'm sure there are many, many other graphs out there that paint the same picture.

Again, arguing about this is far off the topic of this thread. If you want to continue, you can PM me.

2slow

iTrader: (6)

This is neither here or there (and don't take this as argumentative), but (non-inertial) dynamometers measure tractive effort (or another measure of torque applied to the roll) and roller speed to calculate absorbed power. Torque (vehicle) is then calculated based on engine speed and absorbed power. Power is more important than torque, but they are directly related so either way, more is better.

For everyone's reference (borrowed from wikipedia):



On topic, cutouts are good. I'd like one for my street driven Maxima for the occasions I want to make baby kittens cry.

Unklejoe

iTrader: (6)

I'm totally in for an electric cutout.

And FWIW, less back pressure is always better. You just want enough pipe so that cold air doesn't rush into the heads and warp valves right after engine turn off. Also, the ECU must be able to compensate for the change in flow.

http://mechdb.com/index.php/Exhaust_back_pressure_myth

tooreckless00

iTrader: (1)

me likey

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Well I guess that more than proves my point. Thanks for the link!

I'm pretty sure what Aaron would end up selling would be a cutout testpipe that comes with a manual plate (that seals perfectly). It would be relatively cheap, and an easy boltin affair. Once you're at that point, installing an electric cutout is only a matter of installing it in place of the plate and wiring it up. That is considering there is space for an electric cutout to fit, but that could easily be assertained and dealt with during development.

He said he could likely try to arrange a deal with an electric cutout distributor for a discount if we choose to buy it in conjunction with his base piece, but that he would not directly offer an electric one.

Cliffs: A manual and electric cutout are interchangable considering space isn't a restriction. Once you have his manual cutout, you'd just need to buy an electric piece and put it on in place of the manual plate.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

I don't know about 6 speed cars but mine won't launch for crap because of wheel spin. Depending on the road surface (like tar vs concrete), I can smoke the tires from a 15-20 roll already and the VIAS block plate and Warpspeed test pipe seem to have made it worse even though the block plate make power on top at the expense of a bit between 2800-3800 rpms. I think the problem is the VQ35 is already pretty torquey to begin with and even with the block plate can spin the tires-which raises the rpms to where the block plate helps make power and wheel spin is even worse.

It is a real fine line I have to tiptoe to get a good launch with minimal wheel spin on tar roads, concrete is a bit better. What I want is something that will limit weight transfer under hard acceleration. I hear how the Torque Link Bracing Kit limits wheel hop but I don't hear much about it reducing wheel spin. It is backward from when I had my Chevelle, Z/28 and 455 Cutlass where I wanted as much weight transfer as possible so as to help load the back end of the car to get out of the hole quicker. Now I want the weight to stay over the front tires. It's always something, isn't it?

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

From doing alot of reading on the honda and VW drag racing forums, it seems the best suspension setup for a FWD is simply as low as possible, and zero movement. The easiest way to achieve that would be spring spacers or tiedowns for the rear, and tiedowns for the fronts. Jime's car is slammed on coilovers at max stiffness, I don't think he even ties down his suspension at all.

My car on stock struts transfers way too much weight... I can imagine I won't see 1.7 '60s until I take care of that lol.

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

First of all get rid of those Falken tires. They are trash.

knight_yyz

iTrader: (40)

6spd is no better for launching, I can light up the tires in first without even trying, second gear rolling, mat her and they light up, and I can get a good chirp in third. But if it does hook up, which has happened on one or two occasions the car does launch very well, much to the chagrin of an STI about 3 months ago, and a charger SRT a few weeks ago. "nudge nudge wink wink"

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Get new tires! I'm running 245/40/18 Exclaim UHPs up front and I can floor it in first if it's above around 35 degrees, then no lift shift to a hard chirp into 2nd and full hook from there on out. 2.0 '60 foots ftw

Although I wasn't hooking so well tonight after finishing my LIM porting to match the Kinetix (wooo!), it's still better than you describe.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

Unless you are going to send me $600-700 to cover the cost of replacing tires with life left in them, I'm not going to just "get rid of" my tires.

I know you've had them but you live in Minnesota and have to deal with snow and ice. That might be an issue once or twice a year here. However, snow traction is an issue with any tire advertised as an ultra high performance tire. Above 50 or so, the grip is better than the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4s and Yokohama 520s I've had and the Falkens have way outlasted the Michelins-only got 15,000 miles out of them and it wasn't from spinning the tires all the time, the left side wore out just as fast and I don't have limited slip. The tires are very quiet and I can take cloverleaf ramps about 2 mph faster without tire squeal than I could in the Michelins or Yokohamas. I read the reviews online before I bought them. Seems the main issue was snow/ice grip and like I said, that really isn't an issue here.

Will I get 40,000 miles out of them? I doubt it, got 24,000 on them now and tread is at 4/32s so maybe 3-4,000 miles left in them. They do have a treadwear warranty so I'll get a mileage adjustment if I buy them again. Will I buy them again? Not sure yet. I like the grip in warmer temperatures, how quiet they are and how good they are in the rain but tire wear is an issue, along with the straight line traction in cold (but dry) weather. However, the Michelins weren't any better and the Yokohamas were worse.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

For straight line traction bang for your buck, it's hard to beat exclaim UHPs. The sidewalls are pretty soft, though, and they feel pretty squirmy under hard braking.

knight_yyz

iTrader: (40)

you have headers? if not it's a whole new ballgame, 253fwhp and 249 torque and a stage 1 clutch, with the 06 HLSD tranny make for some major wheelspin

SteveB123

iTrader: (2)

That's easy.

Launch in reverse.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

...unless you're looking for NWP to start manufacturing tires.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

2nd time he's ragged on my tires, just wanted to set the record straight. But now that you mention it, if NWP can come up with tires that hook well, have good rain traction and don't wear out in 25,000 miles, I'd be all over them.

sparks03max

iTrader: (7)

Well mods are in my sig, and yes I have headers. I'd roughly guess that I'm running about 15-20 more whp than you as an estimation from track times. I have a LSD as a factory option already, and my stock clutch only slips when launching with slicks if I don't sidestep it fast enough.

I'm just trying to make the point that TIRES are the single biggest solution to traction problems. If you're spinning through 1st/2nd, and chirping into 3rd on a 250whp maxima, tires are your issue, not mad power. I had the same issue on my stock potenzas.

245ish width dunlop star specs, BFG KDW-2s, or cheapy exclaim UHPs with decent sidewall would all make your car feel like an all new beast, unless you consider it beastly to sit around spinning instead of going!

One of these days, should I go back to a power adder or go with a bigger N/A build, I'll get rid of these 350z track wheels and run some forged 16s with beefy tires.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

to your point.

One of the most simple "mods" you can do is invest in better quality tires. Going with Eagle F1's a few years back introduced a massive change on the stock handling, and grip on a hard launch.

So in the context of NWP considering a suspension mod, you'd think the design process would assume quality tread on his test car.

User 12822

iTrader: (1)

Drop the front forward seems to be the best on a fwd car. I know a lot of people that run that same set up. It helps traction a lot and helps weight distribution.

crazy97

iTrader: (1)

Sorry I didnt mean to offend anyone... except Falken. I just have a bitterness towards that particular tire. I had no luck in first gear as far as traction goes, even in dry weather. No harm intended though.

Scottwax

iTrader: (8)

You didn't offend me, you'd mentioned the tire issue before and I just wanted you to know where I was coming from. Tires for our cars aren't cheap, can't just toss tires with life left in them.