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I was looking at the primary ground cable that comes off the battery the other day. It grounds in 3 places and looks pretty corroded.
I'm not a big believer in grounding kits, but it looks like replacing that cable might be worthwhile, especially after reading in another thread about the bad ground causing starter issues.
Has anyone here replaced theirs, or at least removed it and cleaned it up a bit?
I replaced mine last week. I thought my alternator was crapping out on me and it turned out to be an incorrect/corroded cable acting up. I also have a grounding kit that I'm about to install soon.
Get it from daveb ... it was about 40 something bucks.
I cleaned up mine when I worked on it last week. It wasn't too bad, probably because I live in the warm South now, where no one knows what calcium chloride is. I also applied dielectric grease to all areas of uninsulated cable near the connections. Preventative more than anything.
Ok, I'll admit it right now. I have no clue what a "grounding kit" is. I've seen them talked about on this forum many times before but I've never understood what the point of them is. From what I can gather there is some sort of performance increase from them? To me this is laughable though as when I think of electricity I think of it as either being grounded or not. There is no gray area on this. Ie, there is a connection or there is no connection.
It really all depends... a grounding kit is a collection of cable harness's that replace and/or add additional ground connections for the vehicles electrical system. Grounding is improved typically through the use of lower gauge (thicker) higher quality wire and additional contact points to the chassis. Improvements that "can" be seen are smoother idle and shifts in automatic transmissions, easier engine starting, more precise sensor feedback, and improved electrical system functionality (windows roll up faster, interior lights brighter etc.) One can also replace what is known as the "big 3" (battery negative to chassis, engine to chassis, and alternator to positive battery) with lower gauge wire. I have personally replaced all of the factory wiring up to the engine bay fuse box and ran my own custom ground kit using the contact points specified on Stillen's installation instructions for their grounding kit and did notice improved starting and accessory functionality, however I highly doubt you will ever see noticeable hp gain from a grounding kit.
Originally Posted by kbohip
There is no gray area on this. Ie, there is a connection or there is no connection.
You are both correct and incorrect, if you do not have an adequate ground you can see performance problems such as dimming headlights, hard starts, etc, but it can still function at this reduced level because it is completing the circuit, albeit poorly. So yes there are various levels of performance for an electrical system and replacing a very corroded setup is likely to yield noticeable improvement, its not necessarily all or nothing.
Last edited by crypticsaga; Oct 31, 2010 at 01:20 AM.
There is no gray area on this. Ie, there is a connection or there is no connection.
As said above, it is not completely black and white. The grounding kit reduces the electrical resistance, i.e.
V = I*R
where V = voltage [V], I = current [A] and R = resistance [ohms].
If we assume a constant voltage, reducing the resistance would increase the current. Or, similarly, if we assume a constant current, reducing the resistance would increase the voltage. Either way, my assumption is that this would have a more noticeable impact on an older vehicle that has had corroding of the grounds; in other words the kit would (at minimum) return the car to factory levels of current/voltage.
I never understood the allure of adding a bunch of grounding wires.
If there is a grounding issue with the car, cleaning or replacing the stock ground cable or other ground points should fix the problem.
At the speed of light, any grounding shortcuts that save the electrons a few feet of travel are statistically meaningless.
At the speed of light, any grounding shortcuts that save the electrons a few feet of travel are statistically meaningless.
Sigh...the speed at which electricity travels is irrelevent, it has to do with the resistance and overall grounding compacity of an electrical system. Both can be improved with a grounding kit which creates paths of lower resistance (imagine the flow of water) and increases grounding capacity by adding more contact points to the chassis. In my case, where I have a high performace audio system, even with my factory harness in pristine condition it still did not supply adequete grounding for my situation and I had dimming headlights with high bass audio playback. In the case of the 4th gen max where the engine and battery share a common ground contact this problem can be ameliorated by adding additional ground points. Any more misconceptions I can clear up?
Multisyllabic words or not, the whole subject of grounding kits gets probably a 90% "bull$hit" rating if you do any kind of Internet search for it. Only exceptions are the sites where they want to sell you grounding kits.
If the addition of a high-powered stereo made your headlights go dim, it is typically a power source issue, not a grounding issue. If you have such powerful stuff hooked up that you can exceed the grounding capacity of the factory battery cable, more power to you!
In my case, I think my primary ground needs to be replaced because it has the typical corrosion from being garaged a couple blocks from the beach for 8 years.
One good ground engine/body/chassis is all you need as long as the contact points for the various sensors and accessories are good.
wow...I guess this is what I get for trying to help. I tried to answer some questions, organize some information that might be useful, and correct a few misconceptions, my bad.
wow...I guess this is what I get for trying to help. I tried to answer some questions, organize some information that might be useful, and correct a few misconceptions, my bad.
Don't take it personal. It's often hostile here on the org. Sometimes you have to have thick skin. Post what you believe is relevant and helpful. The rest will get sorted out by the majority.
cryptic, you did just fine, please don't take what I said in the wrong way.
Almost all automotive forums have had the debate over grounding kits, and lots of strong emotions about them.
The problem is that electricity is very simple to measure, and if you could show that grounding kits could either increase voltage or lower resistance (enough to affect performence) with a simple multifunction meter, you could be the "Vince for Shamwow" guy and sell a bazillion kits.
Last edited by trooplewis; Nov 1, 2010 at 01:05 AM.
Sigh...the speed at which electricity travels is irrelevent, it has to do with the resistance and overall grounding compacity of an electrical system. Both can be improved with a grounding kit which creates paths of lower resistance (imagine the flow of water) and increases grounding capacity by adding more contact points to the chassis. In my case, where I have a high performace audio system, even with my factory harness in pristine condition it still did not supply adequete grounding for my situation and I had dimming headlights with high bass audio playback. In the case of the 4th gen max where the engine and battery share a common ground contact this problem can be ameliorated by adding additional ground points. Any more misconceptions I can clear up?
Originally Posted by crypticsaga
wow...I guess this is what I get for trying to help. I tried to answer some questions, organize some information that might be useful, and correct a few misconceptions, my bad.
You did, and you did it well. It's nice to read a newbie with strong writing skills.
But you interjected a noticeable and intentional undertone (sigh) that was undoubtedly picked up on unfavorably. Copping an attitude and then ducking innocently behind the excuse-me-for-helping defense is an amateur move. You can do better than that.
Any more misconceptions I can clear up?
Last edited by Rochester; Nov 1, 2010 at 05:34 AM.
What is the voltage or current loss on the ground cable you're thinking of replacing?
Don't know because I just got the car and did not measure it when new. But there is a lot of corrosion at the contact points due to salt air. I might just remove it and clean it up rather than spend the 40 bucks for a new one.
I have had issues with battery cables in several boats that I have owned, due to the 'wicking' of corrosion up through the stranded cable, so I am a bit sensitive to that possibility.
Multisyllabic words or not, the whole subject of grounding kits gets probably a 90% "bull$hit" rating if you do any kind of Internet search for it. Only exceptions are the sites where they want to sell you grounding kits.
These people expect a high and mighty night and day change, but the change is there weither its small or mediocre or average. Also the average loud voice on the internet usually is yelling something negative.
I recently had a friend of mine, tell his friend with a totally different car, about my positive experiences from the grounding kit. He went ahead and did it, and was very impressed. I ran into him and I was surprized of his passion/how happy he was on the mod. Modifications aren't for everyone though.
Let us know if cleaning the contact areas help instead of replacing.
Also, if you have grounding issues, just add more wire. Think of the wires as pipes and the electricity as water. More pipes = less restriction and more flow!
Anyway back to the main point. It is worth replacing the cable if the corrosion is bad. My buddy was getting an charging system light for a bad cable on an Eclipse.
Last edited by ewakefield; Jun 10, 2011 at 09:09 AM.
Also, if you have grounding issues, just add more wire. Think of the wires as pipes and the electricity as water. More pipes = less restriction and more flow!
DIY is best, ground two points at engine block and one final on alternator, along with thicker one accompanying stock ground location
yeah for about a month now been fooling around with the idea of doing it myself. But I'm not completely clear on understanding cables and voltage and what exactly I need to do it. As soon as I think I know and I go to the store to get the things that I need, I kinda wimp out and convince myself to do more research and come back later. I'm not sure why I feel that way considering I've done all the mechanic work on the car and I've done just fine except for the current issue at hand which brings me to why I was trying re grounding. Like everyone else on here that has a 2008 that has a car that won't start and I can't figure out why, going through the same thing even though I replaced practically everything in the car no one can tell me why it's doing it most recent thing I replaced was the fuel pump today I got in and looked at the cable that runs from the chassis to the engine, and it looked just fine. I've actually already clean all my grounding songs Oh, but I'm thinking maybe I'm missing something and I'll put some new ones in I just don't want to screw it up and end up damaging the car farther. There's something going on electrically, but it's been hell in a handbasket trying to figure it out. The car has 153000 miles on it.
i found those yesterday because I knew some of what I referenced was pretty old, that should get you started, its not too bad, cut wire, clamp down connectors, clean up contact points. put one following stock wire , then branch 3 from the grounding point to the points i mentioned (2 on engine block, one on alternator)
good luck! I also helped my friend DIY on his old eclipse. and that was a significant help on that car, shifted better, and those big couple style doors had much better window strength
a good ground is really important. a bad ground can make your battery seem dead, make the starter turn slow or not at all, weaken the spark on your plugs, throw off sensor readings, make a wire hot and sometimes not let your ECU turn on.
back when I was towing I came across a few Infiniti SUV's that had bad grounds and would totally kill the vehicle when it wanted to. a poorly designed single ground that any moment would just cause the car not to either crank slow or have no power at all. It would seem like a dead battery until you jump the negative terminal to something metal on the engine.
Didnt think this question warranted a new thread, so necro it is.
Where is the correct/optimum Motor->Chassis ground mounting point, on the motor that is? Is there one, or as long as the cable is bolted to the motor, somewhere, it should be fine? Im well aware that people typically add additional grounds, Im just curious if some spots are better than others and if there are spots to specifically avoid using. Also, is there any downside to running a cable from Motor->Negative Terminal->Chassis?
In the process of refreshing some of the wiring in my engine bay and the battery cables are on the to-do list. Thanks all.
battery > factory ground point with thicker cable > additional points from the factory ground point ( includes 2 on engine and 1 on alternator)
thats how the blehmco grounding kit is for our car, I can take a pic of the lay out of the two engine points but both are on the top of the block under the plastic head cover (w logo etc)
battery > factory ground point with thicker cable > additional points from the factory ground point ( includes 2 on engine and 1 on alternator)
thats how the blehmco grounding kit is for our car, I can take a pic of the lay out of the two engine points but both are on the top of the block under the plastic head cover (w logo etc)
Got it, thanks dude. Running 1/0 gauge that I got for cheap, I was considering doing motor>neg terminal>chassis just because it would look cool with the fatter cables coming off the battery but I guess theres no practical sense in reinventing the wheel.
Still curious about the 120a fuse though. Stock setup looks like its there to protect the battery and starter, NOT the fusebox? Because doesnt the stock wire from the alternator run to the fusebox first and, then to the battery? If im doing it the same way routing as stock, couldnt just put the 120a between the alt and the fusebox, which would in turn protect all three (fusebox, battery, starter), since the battery and starter come after the fusebox?
a good ground is really important. a bad ground can even lower the voltage going through your spark plugs. a good ground to your engine is really important since the ECU, Injectors, sensors and starter ground out on the engine..
it's even a good idea to clean these grounding points for the engine wiring harness. injectors, sensors and ECU usually ground out at these points...
yea definitely, my car drives, idles,and starts better with an upgraded grounding kit, there is all other obvious electric pros too like stereo, lights, windows etc.
manual cars you can definitely notice the shifts improved as well.
yea definitely, my car drives, idles,and starts better with an upgraded grounding kit, there is all other obvious electric pros too like stereo, lights, windows etc.
manual cars you can definitely notice the shifts improved as well.
Shifts improved? I suppose im just ignorant on the topic but I thought all of that was mechanical with a stick shift? But hey, ill take it lol.
I highly doubt manual cars will shift better with a better ground, only electrical components in the manual transmission is reverse and neutral switch. the 6 speed transmission doesn't even have a speed in on it
ok ! just saying i felt it in another cars install and it was written as perk as well for our kits on manuals, no point to debate, we are talking small amounts.
I've seen them talked about on this forum many times before but I've never understood what the point of them is. From what I can gather there is some sort of performance increase from them? To me this is laughable though as when I think of electricity I think of it as either being grounded or not. There is no gray area on this. Ie, there is a connection or there is no connection.
Sometimes you have to have thick skin. Post what you believe is relevant and helpful. The rest will get sorted out by the majority. 
