Cattman header install...
After paying about 1k for headers I would also be mad if they didn't fit PERFECTLY. People like me with only a garage and hand tools would have no way of drilling that which would mean having to take the headers to a shop and to pay them to drill it out which is more money and time wasted. I've been in a similar position before and it sucked donkey *****.
Seems like widening the holes is going to be the lesser of two evils. I would rather not send my headers back and wait another 3 months to be fixed. I feel like there needs to be some form of reimbursement for our troubles tho (maybe free shipping if/when we place another order) idk
Send them back and order you some OBX's....and Then we'll listen to you really whine and b!tch then!!!!!
Looking at those pics makes me wonder why they are welded on the INSIDE of the flanges. Welding them on the outside should be sufficient, no? (please correct me if I'm wrong) And it would give a clean, even surface for the flange. I can't say I've ever seen headers welded on the inside like that (including the older Cattman's, were they?).
That being said, the welds look really good, maybe they should have been a little farther down into the flange, though b/c it does look like when some of them penetrated into the flange, it distorted the exhaust port a little.
That being said, the welds look really good, maybe they should have been a little farther down into the flange, though b/c it does look like when some of them penetrated into the flange, it distorted the exhaust port a little.
The pictures are exactly what I was looking for, thanks. Well, its not off by much, no wonder they could be modified with home tools. If the hole's 1/4" off there usually isn't anything sitting around the garage that can take off that much steel.
Some of the holes match up, and the others are barely off, so close that they fit on some cars and not others, which means perhaps 1-2 hundredths of an inch or even less. There is no "almost" with steel unless you use a hammer, and we discourage that method.
Of course I'm thinking in terms of what could have gone wrong, and it might be that the mistake was making the holes slightly too small, rather then putting them in the wrong places, because even though these flanges were made by a different company, they're still made using the same CNC programming. Even though the CNC mill is following the same pattern, the parts won't be 100% identical due to slight differences in tooling, or the age of the machine and how tight the tolerances are.
As far as welding goes, those are excellent scalloped TIG welds and its all done exactly the way it should be on both sides. That fabrication method takes a lot longer (i.e. more expensive), but it is one of many subtle features a trained eye will recognize in our parts. To sum it up in a sentence, not only is there is absolutely nothing to criticize about it, this is a fabrication feature that is desirable and found on very few production header sets. Here's why I think its worthwhile...
TIG-welding on the inside as we do is very strong and it creates a smoothed lip instead of just the raw edge of the tubing that creates a ledge with a gap underneath right in the face of the onrushing exhaust gasses coming out of the heads. The end/edge of the tube can't be made flush with the perimeter of the port without welding or a large press or forge with a die that press-forms the tube to the inside of the ports - farther down the exhaust it doesn't matter as much, but here it needs to be smooth without that tubing ledge causing turbulence. The thick welds on the back are for added strength but there's no reason to weld all the way around when its already done on the inside.
Finally, my intent is to make arrangements for sending back manifolds for those who need to have us drill out the holes enough to avoid any fitment issues. I have to communicate with my exhaust partner first, and after I work out the protocol with him, I'll report back to this thread. I will also offer some kind of consideration to those who were inconvenienced, but let me give this some thought and see what my exhaust partner will be doing.
I will say this for those who'd like to get them on right away. If you're planning to have a competent mechanic in a real garage put these one, I really cannot imagine how this would be a show-stopper. No excuse for these Cattman Performance parts not fitting perfectly - I'd be the first to point that out - but compared with the exhaust parts that typically get carried into a shop for installation, they are still solid gold.
Tell the mechanic what to expect, and if the guy's capable and isn't just a robotic parts remover/replacer that goes into a tizzy if something's unexpected, then I can't see how it would be an issue. Everyone can see how close these are - so I shouldn't need to point out in advance that if someone ruins a header getting it on, its because they're a dumbsh!t, not because of this minor flaw. Its also not something that should take more than 10-15 minutes to deal with if its done systematically to minimize the # of holes that need adjustment.
Brian
Some of the holes match up, and the others are barely off, so close that they fit on some cars and not others, which means perhaps 1-2 hundredths of an inch or even less. There is no "almost" with steel unless you use a hammer, and we discourage that method.
Of course I'm thinking in terms of what could have gone wrong, and it might be that the mistake was making the holes slightly too small, rather then putting them in the wrong places, because even though these flanges were made by a different company, they're still made using the same CNC programming. Even though the CNC mill is following the same pattern, the parts won't be 100% identical due to slight differences in tooling, or the age of the machine and how tight the tolerances are.
As far as welding goes, those are excellent scalloped TIG welds and its all done exactly the way it should be on both sides. That fabrication method takes a lot longer (i.e. more expensive), but it is one of many subtle features a trained eye will recognize in our parts. To sum it up in a sentence, not only is there is absolutely nothing to criticize about it, this is a fabrication feature that is desirable and found on very few production header sets. Here's why I think its worthwhile...
TIG-welding on the inside as we do is very strong and it creates a smoothed lip instead of just the raw edge of the tubing that creates a ledge with a gap underneath right in the face of the onrushing exhaust gasses coming out of the heads. The end/edge of the tube can't be made flush with the perimeter of the port without welding or a large press or forge with a die that press-forms the tube to the inside of the ports - farther down the exhaust it doesn't matter as much, but here it needs to be smooth without that tubing ledge causing turbulence. The thick welds on the back are for added strength but there's no reason to weld all the way around when its already done on the inside.
Finally, my intent is to make arrangements for sending back manifolds for those who need to have us drill out the holes enough to avoid any fitment issues. I have to communicate with my exhaust partner first, and after I work out the protocol with him, I'll report back to this thread. I will also offer some kind of consideration to those who were inconvenienced, but let me give this some thought and see what my exhaust partner will be doing.
I will say this for those who'd like to get them on right away. If you're planning to have a competent mechanic in a real garage put these one, I really cannot imagine how this would be a show-stopper. No excuse for these Cattman Performance parts not fitting perfectly - I'd be the first to point that out - but compared with the exhaust parts that typically get carried into a shop for installation, they are still solid gold.
Tell the mechanic what to expect, and if the guy's capable and isn't just a robotic parts remover/replacer that goes into a tizzy if something's unexpected, then I can't see how it would be an issue. Everyone can see how close these are - so I shouldn't need to point out in advance that if someone ruins a header getting it on, its because they're a dumbsh!t, not because of this minor flaw. Its also not something that should take more than 10-15 minutes to deal with if its done systematically to minimize the # of holes that need adjustment.
Brian
So This is my engine that I will be installing. Granted it is from an 04 but that shouldnt matter as far as the header is concerned. The front manifold was a little rough going in but it went in clean and flush. The rear manifold does not make it. The problem lies with the middle lower bolt hole. It appears at it doesnt need much opening up the hole at all. The header actually makes it around the star portion of the stud but not the threaded area. I hope these pics help.
[quote=NismoAce;8081709]btw the pic that shows the header fully on is the front side. I have not done anything to the rear manifold to get it to fit. I will most likely be drilling or taking it somewhere to get drilled, the shipping will prob take to long and I honestly dont feel that it is necessary for any side of the party to spend so much on shipping for such a simple fix. Mine is barely off. Not sure
After paying about 1k for headers I would also be mad if they didn't fit PERFECTLY. People like me with only a garage and hand tools would have no way of drilling that which would mean having to take the headers to a shop and to pay them to drill it out which is more money and time wasted. I've been in a similar position before and it sucked donkey *****.
...If you're that unhappy...ship them back to Cattman...Complaining ************* aint gonna help resolve this....either straighten your 1 bolt hole that's causing the interference or pack them up and ship them back to Cattman....It's a simple fix that's worth less then the money it's gonna cost you to rewrap the box it was shipped in...Let's be sensible and work thru this! It not like you need to die grind you Xmember to clear the ypipe or grind down you motor mounts to provide clearance for the rear header manifold, plug the O2 sensor that was located in the wrong position or stretch the flex section of the ypipe to closed a 3/4"- 1 1/2" gap between the ypipe and the cat....****************
Last edited by Puppetmaster; Jun 15, 2011 at 05:38 AM. Reason: No need for the condescension
1 freakin hole need to be adjusted! You don't own a file, die grinder, dremel nor drill w/bits??????...If you're that unhappy...ship them back to Cattman...Complaining lick a lil' B aint gonna help resolve this....either straighten your 1 bolt hole that's causing the interference or pack them up and ship them back to Cattman....It's a simple fix that's worth less then the money it's gonna cost you to rewrap the box it was shipped in...Let's be sensible and work thru this! It not like you need to die grind you Xmember to clear the ypipe or grind down you motor mounts to provide clearance for the rear header manifold, plug the O2 sensor that was located in the wrong position or stretch the flex section of the ypipe to closed a 3/4"- 1 1/2" gap between the ypipe and the cat....I believe this is minor crap any semi mechanically inclined individual's child could handle!!!!!!
...If you're that unhappy...ship them back to Cattman...Complaining lick a lil' B aint gonna help resolve this....either straighten your 1 bolt hole that's causing the interference or pack them up and ship them back to Cattman....It's a simple fix that's worth less then the money it's gonna cost you to rewrap the box it was shipped in...Let's be sensible and work thru this! It not like you need to die grind you Xmember to clear the ypipe or grind down you motor mounts to provide clearance for the rear header manifold, plug the O2 sensor that was located in the wrong position or stretch the flex section of the ypipe to closed a 3/4"- 1 1/2" gap between the ypipe and the cat....I believe this is minor crap any semi mechanically inclined individual's child could handle!!!!!!Last edited by Puppetmaster; Jun 15, 2011 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Let's not get personal here
I see both sides of this. It should have fit perfectly as it has been know to. But things happen. Brian will help out those who see it as a big deal im sure. I wouldnt mind like half off a fast cat or some free go fast stickers. 
Just my thoughts on this issue.i have been working on cars for many years now and have seen issues with parts come and go the problem i see is that the person having the issue here does not understand that the process of installing headers is a MODIFICATION and with any modification there is a need to take in account that you may have to either move,grind,adjust,drill or relocate to get the job done.IMO nothing is just drop and fit not even OE parts just remember you are modifing your car with an aftermarket part!i personally can give many examples of how something they sell aftermarket for our cars can be a pita to do but its all up to the mindset of the owner who wants this MOD done i dont like the fact that im installing ES motor mounts and that i have to cut,grind and violate a set of motor mounts to do it but it is the price i have to pay for the performance that i want.i didnt like the fact that my Megan cat back was 2.5" to short to reach the main cat i didnt call and whine about it just fixed it Why because i know there are issues with aftermarket parts.So i wouldnt go around trying to tarnish the rep of the person you purchased the headers from because in reality you should of understood that when you ordered these that there may be modification needed.and also please try to remember that the reason things are called MODS is because you may have MOD them to work.So imo you have 2 choices send them back or grind,drill,etc the 1/16th" then install and enjoy them.
Let's keep this discussion civil and constructive please, no personal attacks will be tolerated, nor do we want to see "I bought XXX brand of headers and they fit perfectly". If you're not trying to help, then please refrain from adding fuel to the fire.
cjandura hit it right on the head! I agree 100%.....I don't even think it's a 1/16" maybe a 1/32"......My Cattman's fitted right on but I cleaned up the welding slag that was inside the tubing, I used copper gaskets @ the header collectors, I switched all my hardware to longer SS bolts, lockwashers, nuts... and ceramic coated the entire setup! Install everything loosely then tighten it up.....This minor stuff Gents!
Got my set installed today. The mechanic did say the holes were a little off, but nothing he couldn't handle. Fit like a glove otherwise, and WOW does the car sound and feel good!
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 27
From: NY
I put on the Cattman headers last week. I remember my mechanic was telling me that the holes were a bit to small and had to use a drill bit to enlarge the holes. They ended up fitting perfectly and putting on the y pipe was an ease. I already have the 3" Cattman exhaust on just running on stock cats. Took it out for a test run and wow you can feel the power gain from these bad boys, lol. The only thing that wasn't satisfying is whenever the car sits at low rpm range 2k - 3.3k and using 60% or more throttle pressure I can hear a buzzing noise, is this normal? Does anyone else have that issue? 
The car sounds great at high rpm though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNFu8moUns
The car sounds great at high rpm though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNFu8moUns
Last edited by ljAiz; Jul 2, 2011 at 02:04 AM.
I put on the Cattman headers last week. I remember my mechanic was telling me that the holes were a bit to small and had to use a drill bit to enlarge the holes. They ended up fitting perfectly and putting on the y pipe was an ease. I already have the 3" Cattman exhaust on just running on stock cats. Took it out for a test run and wow you can feel the power gain from these bad boys, lol. The only thing that wasn't satisfying is whenever the car sits at low rpm range 2k - 3.3k and using 60% or more throttle pressure I can hear a buzzing noise, is this normal? Does anyone else have that issue?
The car sounds great at high rpm though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNFu8moUns
The car sounds great at high rpm though... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNFu8moUns
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 27
From: NY
Lol. Well i had test pipes before the headers, after their installed the test pipe wont fit so i had it cut and welded. I got the chance to put them on yesterday and noticed the buzz was louder. I dont think is the cats nor the TP. :/
One hole is off....you're over thinking
Send them back and order you some OBX's....and Then we'll listen to you really whine and b!tch then!!!!!
Nice find hope this opens the minds of those stressing out over 1 bolt hole that's off about .005", clean that up with a dremel or die grinder in about 30 seconds!!!!!!
1 freakin hole need to be adjusted! You don't own a file, die grinder, dremel nor drill w/bits??????...If you're that unhappy...ship them back to Cattman...Complaining ************* aint gonna help resolve this....either straighten your 1 bolt hole that's causing the interference or pack them up and ship them back to Cattman....It's a simple fix that's worth less then the money it's gonna cost you to rewrap the box it was shipped in...Let's be sensible and work thru this! It not like you need to die grind you Xmember to clear the ypipe or grind down you motor mounts to provide clearance for the rear header manifold, plug the O2 sensor that was located in the wrong position or stretch the flex section of the ypipe to closed a 3/4"- 1 1/2" gap between the ypipe and the cat....****************
Send them back and order you some OBX's....and Then we'll listen to you really whine and b!tch then!!!!!
Nice find hope this opens the minds of those stressing out over 1 bolt hole that's off about .005", clean that up with a dremel or die grinder in about 30 seconds!!!!!!
1 freakin hole need to be adjusted! You don't own a file, die grinder, dremel nor drill w/bits??????
...If you're that unhappy...ship them back to Cattman...Complaining ************* aint gonna help resolve this....either straighten your 1 bolt hole that's causing the interference or pack them up and ship them back to Cattman....It's a simple fix that's worth less then the money it's gonna cost you to rewrap the box it was shipped in...Let's be sensible and work thru this! It not like you need to die grind you Xmember to clear the ypipe or grind down you motor mounts to provide clearance for the rear header manifold, plug the O2 sensor that was located in the wrong position or stretch the flex section of the ypipe to closed a 3/4"- 1 1/2" gap between the ypipe and the cat....****************
You always ragin.I don't own a file, die grinder, or dremel. I am not unhappy as I am not experiencing this problem since I never bought these headers. I am also not complaining at all ********** because this is not my problem. You missed the whole point which is that that when you are paying a premium for a quality part you should NOT have to fab up anything on a header. *************
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 27
From: NY
Sorry if i confused you lol. What i meant to say is I had test pipe and Cattman 3" exhaust before i had them Cattman headers & Y-pipe. After i install the headers, the test pipe doesn't fit (since it was 1" longer than stock cat) so i had to cut it. Running with stock cats for a week while i had my mechanic cut the test pipe to custom fitted. Stock cats or testpipes they still make the buzz.
Sorry if i confused you lol. What i meant to say is I had test pipe and Cattman 3" exhaust before i had them Cattman headers & Y-pipe. After i install the headers, the test pipe doesn't fit (since it was 1" longer than stock cat) so i had to cut it. Running with stock cats for a week while i had my mechanic cut the test pipe to custom fitted. Stock cats or testpipes they still make the buzz.
) There shouldn't be any sound other than Cattmanmusic to the ears! But then maybe your hearing that test pipe rasp!!!!!!
Last edited by CMax03; Jul 2, 2011 at 01:24 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 27
From: NY
Is this like a vibrating buzz or an acoustical buzz? Check all your bolts for tightness maybe it's an exhaust leak @ one of your joints! Listen to your entire exhaust with a hose (But not up the nose!!!!) There shouldn't be any sound other than Cattmanmusic to the ears! But then maybe your hearing that test pipe rasp!!!!!!
) There shouldn't be any sound other than Cattmanmusic to the ears! But then maybe your hearing that test pipe rasp!!!!!!That buzz sound sounds similar to what civic makes (bee in can) x(.
But, I did what you said today. Seems like i had a little leak from the muffler to the bend pipe where the clamp holds it together. But i think I'm going to unbolt the whole exhaust and reinstall it again another day.
And yes indeed the Cattman music track is one of my favorite..
Last edited by ljAiz; Jul 2, 2011 at 03:49 PM.
Just wanted to let everyone know that I went to my mechanic today and he is almost done with my install of headers, fast cat, 3" exhaust, UD pulley and NWP spacers......he has BOTH the headers on the engine when I went but not the exhaust yet......I asked him if he had ANY problems installing the headers....he said AND I QUOTE:
"NO THEY WENT RIGHT ON WITH NO ISSUE, BUT GETTING THE HEADER ON IN THE BACK OF THE ENGINE WAS A PAIN IN THE @SS BECAUSE OF THE LITTLE SPACE I HAD TO WORK WITH."
So there was no problem with my headers........
"NO THEY WENT RIGHT ON WITH NO ISSUE, BUT GETTING THE HEADER ON IN THE BACK OF THE ENGINE WAS A PAIN IN THE @SS BECAUSE OF THE LITTLE SPACE I HAD TO WORK WITH."
So there was no problem with my headers........
Just wanted to let everyone know that I went to my mechanic today and he is almost done with my install of headers, fast cat, 3" exhaust, UD pulley and NWP spacers......he has BOTH the headers on the engine when I went but not the exhaust yet......I asked him if he had ANY problems installing the headers....he said AND I QUOTE:
"NO THEY WENT RIGHT ON WITH NO ISSUE, BUT GETTING THE HEADER ON IN THE BACK OF THE ENGINE WAS A PAIN IN THE @SS BECAUSE OF THE LITTLE SPACE I HAD TO WORK WITH."
So there was no problem with my headers........
"NO THEY WENT RIGHT ON WITH NO ISSUE, BUT GETTING THE HEADER ON IN THE BACK OF THE ENGINE WAS A PAIN IN THE @SS BECAUSE OF THE LITTLE SPACE I HAD TO WORK WITH."
So there was no problem with my headers........
Just wanted to let everyone know that I went to my mechanic today and he is almost done with my install of headers, fast cat, 3" exhaust, UD pulley and NWP spacers......he has BOTH the headers on the engine when I went but not the exhaust yet......I asked him if he had ANY problems installing the headers....he said AND I QUOTE:
"NO THEY WENT RIGHT ON WITH NO ISSUE, BUT GETTING THE HEADER ON IN THE BACK OF THE ENGINE WAS A PAIN IN THE @SS BECAUSE OF THE LITTLE SPACE I HAD TO WORK WITH."
So there was no problem with my headers........
"NO THEY WENT RIGHT ON WITH NO ISSUE, BUT GETTING THE HEADER ON IN THE BACK OF THE ENGINE WAS A PAIN IN THE @SS BECAUSE OF THE LITTLE SPACE I HAD TO WORK WITH."
So there was no problem with my headers........
Yeah don't nut too fast Clashez.....They're night and day when comparing the install and durability!
Wish I was in your town I would do your install!
This is from a Mechanic who apparently has never installed Cattman Headers....the rear bank is easy with the Motor Mount bracket and X-member removed....We all know that! Just for those hoping Cattman has fitment issues don't slam your salami too fast it ain't gonna be anything like that OBX nightmare.....
I owe CMax03 a thanks for enlightening me on mediocre cheap mods. I spoke with Brian on Monday and my order is on the headers list.
You might be the only one here to categorize Cattman headers as a mediocre and cheap mod. Moreover, this purchase shoots holes in a recent claim you made about not spending too much on your old sedan.
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