djfrestyl's DEFINITIVE "I HAVE A SUSPENSION QUESTION" THREAD!!!
Long time lurker but the 5th gen forum has been of much help to me. My skill level/tool availability maxes out at changing the plugs on the car. I'm not afraid to work on the car but I have no access to a lift to work on the car myself. My issue is kind of a long read...but here goes...
For what seems like forever, I had the clunking in the front end of my '02 i35 while going over undulating roads (not sharp bumps usually but very old pavement with smooth depressions). I had it looked at a number of times by 3 different shops, and every time each mechanic told me I was ok and they could never replicate the sound. (!)
After much reading on here and 120k miles, I decided that new motor mounts were in order, so I ordered all 4 on ebay. The VERY NEXT DAY (before I get the mounts), I was driving and now I hear a rusty hinge creaking type noise in addition to my clunk when going over bumps. ARGH.
More searching/reading and I find youtube videos that sound like it - bad sway bar bushings. No prob - the car is going in for motor mounts, I get new sway bar end links and bushings (moog..I research!) to be put in also. The guy at my regular shop knows that I'm not an idiot and research stuff like hell to try and diagnose...so he usually trusts me when I bring him parts to put in. He does the work for me, and not only do I still have the clunking and creaking (moreso when turning to the left), the car now also feels "skittish" when driving as if the shocks are not absorbing any impacts from the road. It's never felt this way in the ~80k I've owned it. FYI, I had all 4 shocks replaced about 3,500 miles ago.
My question is, what now? I'm going to get the tires rotated/balanced in the morning (Sam's Club, so it's free and I'm due for a rotation anyway) but honestly I'm not expecting a balancing to fix this. Did I need to get an alignment after the sway bar link replacement? (nothing in my searching said so) Am I looking at new ball joints?
Also - I normally keep the psi at 38-40, but brought it down to 32 to see if that made a difference - no dice. I'm just trying to figure out where to go next.
For what seems like forever, I had the clunking in the front end of my '02 i35 while going over undulating roads (not sharp bumps usually but very old pavement with smooth depressions). I had it looked at a number of times by 3 different shops, and every time each mechanic told me I was ok and they could never replicate the sound. (!)
After much reading on here and 120k miles, I decided that new motor mounts were in order, so I ordered all 4 on ebay. The VERY NEXT DAY (before I get the mounts), I was driving and now I hear a rusty hinge creaking type noise in addition to my clunk when going over bumps. ARGH.
More searching/reading and I find youtube videos that sound like it - bad sway bar bushings. No prob - the car is going in for motor mounts, I get new sway bar end links and bushings (moog..I research!) to be put in also. The guy at my regular shop knows that I'm not an idiot and research stuff like hell to try and diagnose...so he usually trusts me when I bring him parts to put in. He does the work for me, and not only do I still have the clunking and creaking (moreso when turning to the left), the car now also feels "skittish" when driving as if the shocks are not absorbing any impacts from the road. It's never felt this way in the ~80k I've owned it. FYI, I had all 4 shocks replaced about 3,500 miles ago.
My question is, what now? I'm going to get the tires rotated/balanced in the morning (Sam's Club, so it's free and I'm due for a rotation anyway) but honestly I'm not expecting a balancing to fix this. Did I need to get an alignment after the sway bar link replacement? (nothing in my searching said so) Am I looking at new ball joints?
Also - I normally keep the psi at 38-40, but brought it down to 32 to see if that made a difference - no dice. I'm just trying to figure out where to go next.
You did all 4 motor mounts, both end links and both sway bar bushings...as well as struts (and presumably strut mounts?).
Thus, I'm going to move towards control arm bushings and/or ball joints as the next thing you should have a look at. The skittish feeling could just be the fresh motor mounts now transferring energy in a different way to your suspension/subframe - what kind of struts did you install? Are you lowered?
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 19
From: LI, NY
First, I'm assuming everything is properly installed.
You did all 4 motor mounts, both end links and both sway bar bushings...as well as struts (and presumably strut mounts?).
Thus, I'm going to move towards control arm bushings and/or ball joints as the next thing you should have a look at. The skittish feeling could just be the fresh motor mounts now transferring energy in a different way to your suspension/subframe - what kind of struts did you install? Are you lowered?
You did all 4 motor mounts, both end links and both sway bar bushings...as well as struts (and presumably strut mounts?).
Thus, I'm going to move towards control arm bushings and/or ball joints as the next thing you should have a look at. The skittish feeling could just be the fresh motor mounts now transferring energy in a different way to your suspension/subframe - what kind of struts did you install? Are you lowered?
If it's the mounts...ugh. There's no way that I'll be able to drive like this on a permanent basis. It feels as if every bump is slowly pushing the car to break itself apart...I get that extra little bounce over every imperfection in the pavement.
The struts are Monroe, and new strut mounts were installed also. That 3500 miles had no problems. I'm not lowered - stock look.
If it is the ball joints - is it worth just going with new control arms altogether? I admit...in my research I went back and forth about just getting the whole kit from fcp and starting completely fresh...but I was hoping to not have to be that radical about it.
I would definitely check to make sure bushings are torqued, and ESPECIALLY links are torqued TIGHT.
Also, have a look to see that the bottom of the end link is not touching the control arm. There should be a gap.
There's less of a chance for mounts to be installed properly - but have a look at your passenger side mount. There are vertical bolts and there should be no gaps between the mounting sleeves and the nuts.
Personally, if I were to do control arms, I'd stick with your current arms but have Moog Ball Joints pressed in, as well as have ES poly bushings pressed in. Significantly better quality and performance than FCP, even though the FCP kit is decent.
Also, have a look to see that the bottom of the end link is not touching the control arm. There should be a gap.
There's less of a chance for mounts to be installed properly - but have a look at your passenger side mount. There are vertical bolts and there should be no gaps between the mounting sleeves and the nuts.
Personally, if I were to do control arms, I'd stick with your current arms but have Moog Ball Joints pressed in, as well as have ES poly bushings pressed in. Significantly better quality and performance than FCP, even though the FCP kit is decent.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 19
From: LI, NY
I would definitely check to make sure bushings are torqued, and ESPECIALLY links are torqued TIGHT.
Also, have a look to see that the bottom of the end link is not touching the control arm. There should be a gap.
There's less of a chance for mounts to be installed properly - but have a look at your passenger side mount. There are vertical bolts and there should be no gaps between the mounting sleeves and the nuts.
Personally, if I were to do control arms, I'd stick with your current arms but have Moog Ball Joints pressed in, as well as have ES poly bushings pressed in. Significantly better quality and performance than FCP, even though the FCP kit is decent.
Also, have a look to see that the bottom of the end link is not touching the control arm. There should be a gap.
There's less of a chance for mounts to be installed properly - but have a look at your passenger side mount. There are vertical bolts and there should be no gaps between the mounting sleeves and the nuts.
Personally, if I were to do control arms, I'd stick with your current arms but have Moog Ball Joints pressed in, as well as have ES poly bushings pressed in. Significantly better quality and performance than FCP, even though the FCP kit is decent.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 19
From: LI, NY
Update -as I suspected - the balancing did not fix it. The guy discovered the passenger rear was out of balance and fixed it...but whatever. I brought it to the shop and the guy who did the sway bar links last week took a ride with me. He heard the squeak/clunk and agreed it was odd. He says that the new links and bushings are going to make it feel more stiff...and he wants the car back for a few hours to try and diagnose the noise.
At this point, I'm ready to just order moog everything from Advance and have him replace it all. I want to keep the car for another few years at least...I figure if everything is new I won't have to have any nagging issues. This piecemeal approach is starting to really bug me.
At this point, I'm ready to just order moog everything from Advance and have him replace it all. I want to keep the car for another few years at least...I figure if everything is new I won't have to have any nagging issues. This piecemeal approach is starting to really bug me.
Relax. You're in an agitated state and you're thinking throwing money at it will solve it.
Let your mechanic diagnose it. Give him some time. Moog will make things *slightly* stiffer, but it's noticeable in a very nice way.
Let your mechanic diagnose it. Give him some time. Moog will make things *slightly* stiffer, but it's noticeable in a very nice way.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 19
From: LI, NY
Well...true. I can always just buy everything, tell him to replace what needs to be replaced and return whatever doesn't get used. I know for a fact that they mark up their parts a lot, which is why I would rather get the parts on my own and deal with it myself. When he quoted me the motor mounts it was $700 + labor (maybe OEM but I doubt it). I got the set myself for $260. Still got hammered on the labor but no other choice there.
My local Advance has never given me problems with returns before. At this point I just want it done...and done right.
My local Advance has never given me problems with returns before. At this point I just want it done...and done right.
Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 139
So I got to replacing the end links and bushings for the swaybar. I'd like to say the clunk is reduced but now I have a bigger problem. One of the bolts for the passenger side swaybar bracket sheered off the head. Now there's about a quarter inch of stud sticking out of the frame and the bracket is just there with one bolt.
Unfortunately I have to drive it like this a little before I can get it to a garage or get a tool to remove the stud. Assuming the bolt comes out peacefully, I will need another one to go in its place. Will a dealer carry a 5 dollar bolt or does anybody know what threads the bolt has so I can pick one up? I only know the head is 14mm
Unfortunately I have to drive it like this a little before I can get it to a garage or get a tool to remove the stud. Assuming the bolt comes out peacefully, I will need another one to go in its place. Will a dealer carry a 5 dollar bolt or does anybody know what threads the bolt has so I can pick one up? I only know the head is 14mm
Ahh that sucks. Dealer is a crapshoot. I've had good luck with Ace hardware, they carry many metric sizes. If that doesn't help, no harm in pre-ordering the bolt from the dealer. You know which it is.
BTW your subframe might be rusty. Before putting the new bolt in I recommend cleaning the threads of the subframe with a wire brush or wire pipe cleaner and some PB Blaster.
BTW your subframe might be rusty. Before putting the new bolt in I recommend cleaning the threads of the subframe with a wire brush or wire pipe cleaner and some PB Blaster.
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 19
From: LI, NY
Update - I never got a chance to bring my car to the shop to have them check..the last few days have been uber busy...but today I decided to do the simple push test on the car. Left front - fine. Right front squeaks/creaks (sounds like "wruh wruh") on both the way down and back up, then there's a nice pop/clunk at the end.
Now I'm back to thinking it's a bad strut. There's no visible movement of the top of the mount (did the test with the hood popped). Opinion?
Now I'm back to thinking it's a bad strut. There's no visible movement of the top of the mount (did the test with the hood popped). Opinion?
Hard to tell without actually looking at it. Could be links, mount, incorrect install of the strut, bushing, control arm, ball joint, etc.
The only thing I CAN confirm, is that it's on the right side
The only thing I CAN confirm, is that it's on the right side
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,861
From: Atlanta
Alright... after reading through a bunch of threads I think I have what I need for a little upgrade/maint on my suspension. But I have a couple of questions...
2003 GLE w/ 140,000. Car rides fine currently - no noises but it's becoming a little soft especially with passengers in the rear. Current set up is H&R springs (installed around 40k - I think) and HP Blues (installed around 60k - I think). All other component parts are original. I replaced the springs & shocks myself the 1st go around using basic hand tools at my house and I’ll do the same with this install.
90% of my driving is to/from work in rush hour so I’m just looking to firm up the ride a bit. I don’t drive aggressive anymore so I’m not looking for major handling upgrades. I haven’t inspected the component parts yet, but I figured I’d go ahead and replace some of the worn items while I have everything apart.
So…. here’s my parts list (format looks better in excel):
To Do / MFG / Description / Quantity / Price / Total Price / Part #
Replace Front Strut KYB GR-2 Front Right 1 94.79 94.79 334366
Replace Front Strut KYB GR-2 Front Left 1 94.79 94.79 334367
Replace Rear Shocks KYB GR-2 Left/Right 2 66.79 133.58 341341
Replace Front Dust Boots OEM "BUMPER ASSY-BOUND" 2 14.75 29.50 54050-A33B002
Replace Rear Dust Boots OEM "BUMPER ASSY-BOUND" 2 34.23 68.46 55240-A33B004
Replace Front Strut Mounts Moog Left/Right 2 34.79 69.58 K90655
Replace Front Sway Bar End Link Moog Right 1 13.21 13.21 K90431
Replace Front Sway Bar End Link Moog Left 1 13.21 13.21 K90432
Replace Front Sway Bar Bushings Energy Suspension 22mm (sold in pairs) 1 20.00 20.00 7.5124G
TOTAL = $537.12
1) Do I really need OEM dust boots or will aftermarket work? 35/piece for the OEM rears is expensive.
2) RE: sway bar bushings – greased or non-greased? The greaseable set w/ bracket (Part Number: 9.5158G) is a few dollars more than just replacements. Should I get the whole set with bracket or will just the bushing suffice?
3) Am I missing anything?
2003 GLE w/ 140,000. Car rides fine currently - no noises but it's becoming a little soft especially with passengers in the rear. Current set up is H&R springs (installed around 40k - I think) and HP Blues (installed around 60k - I think). All other component parts are original. I replaced the springs & shocks myself the 1st go around using basic hand tools at my house and I’ll do the same with this install.
90% of my driving is to/from work in rush hour so I’m just looking to firm up the ride a bit. I don’t drive aggressive anymore so I’m not looking for major handling upgrades. I haven’t inspected the component parts yet, but I figured I’d go ahead and replace some of the worn items while I have everything apart.
So…. here’s my parts list (format looks better in excel):
To Do / MFG / Description / Quantity / Price / Total Price / Part #
Replace Front Strut KYB GR-2 Front Right 1 94.79 94.79 334366
Replace Front Strut KYB GR-2 Front Left 1 94.79 94.79 334367
Replace Rear Shocks KYB GR-2 Left/Right 2 66.79 133.58 341341
Replace Front Dust Boots OEM "BUMPER ASSY-BOUND" 2 14.75 29.50 54050-A33B002
Replace Rear Dust Boots OEM "BUMPER ASSY-BOUND" 2 34.23 68.46 55240-A33B004
Replace Front Strut Mounts Moog Left/Right 2 34.79 69.58 K90655
Replace Front Sway Bar End Link Moog Right 1 13.21 13.21 K90431
Replace Front Sway Bar End Link Moog Left 1 13.21 13.21 K90432
Replace Front Sway Bar Bushings Energy Suspension 22mm (sold in pairs) 1 20.00 20.00 7.5124G
TOTAL = $537.12
1) Do I really need OEM dust boots or will aftermarket work? 35/piece for the OEM rears is expensive.
2) RE: sway bar bushings – greased or non-greased? The greaseable set w/ bracket (Part Number: 9.5158G) is a few dollars more than just replacements. Should I get the whole set with bracket or will just the bushing suffice?
3) Am I missing anything?
Last edited by UGAd13; Apr 29, 2012 at 07:58 AM.
Well, this is a FANTASTIC post.
1. Yes. This is the ONE part where it's worth to get OEM.
2. Bushing only is good enough. Save the few dollars here.
3. Nope! You sir, are good to go. Part numbers are all accurate.
1. Yes. This is the ONE part where it's worth to get OEM.
2. Bushing only is good enough. Save the few dollars here.
3. Nope! You sir, are good to go. Part numbers are all accurate.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,861
From: Atlanta
Thanks!
Alright figured I'd throw this one out there, been driving me insane!
Seems my 2002 Auto has developed a "popping" sound when I accelerate from a stop and also when coming to a stop. No noises at all when steering, although I know I've got to get some steering bushings replaced to firm up the steering feel.
We just did Moog end links a few weeks ago which helped knock down the sloppy suspension feel while going over bumps but there is still some left.
Could it really be as simple as a new set of struts?
Seems my 2002 Auto has developed a "popping" sound when I accelerate from a stop and also when coming to a stop. No noises at all when steering, although I know I've got to get some steering bushings replaced to firm up the steering feel.
We just did Moog end links a few weeks ago which helped knock down the sloppy suspension feel while going over bumps but there is still some left.
Could it really be as simple as a new set of struts?
Alright figured I'd throw this one out there, been driving me insane!
Seems my 2002 Auto has developed a "popping" sound when I accelerate from a stop and also when coming to a stop. No noises at all when steering, although I know I've got to get some steering bushings replaced to firm up the steering feel.
We just did Moog end links a few weeks ago which helped knock down the sloppy suspension feel while going over bumps but there is still some left.
Could it really be as simple as a new set of struts?
Seems my 2002 Auto has developed a "popping" sound when I accelerate from a stop and also when coming to a stop. No noises at all when steering, although I know I've got to get some steering bushings replaced to firm up the steering feel.
We just did Moog end links a few weeks ago which helped knock down the sloppy suspension feel while going over bumps but there is still some left.
Could it really be as simple as a new set of struts?
If by torque mounts you mean engine/trans mounts, then I know the front/rear motor mounts were replaced about 2 years ago. I am pretty sure the left/right side mounts need to be replaced as well.
Or would you say it's best to just get all 4 done at the same time?
Or would you say it's best to just get all 4 done at the same time?
Torque mounts are closest to the radiator and firewall. I would replace the other engine mount and the trans mount if you have the funds. The mount at the front of the engine (sometimes referred to as passenger side mount) often causes a popping noise which is usually misdiagnosed as a suspension noise. It's pretty straight forward to change. I would start there. The torque mounts should be good if you replaced them fairly recently. Although, if they're aftermarket stock replacement, there have been many reviews saying they wear out quickly.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 31
From: Fullerton, CA
I have an 02 Max GLE with 95K miles. The struts are shot as well as one of the mounts so I'm thinking of going with megan street series coils. I also ordered new sway bar bushings(moog) and end links(moog.) Should I have decently comfortable ride quality after these mods? Anything else I should replace at this mileage, I have quite a bit of play in the steering wheel so I'm hoping these mods will get rid of that too while maintaining a decent ride.
Last edited by vexx786; Apr 25, 2012 at 07:07 PM.
Sounds like a good setup, but I recommend Energy Suspension Polyurethane sway bar bushings over Moog's rubber OEM replacements.
It should tighten everything up nicely, but if you still feel your steering is sloppy then I'd attack your tie rod ends (Moog), Ball joints (Moog) - and while you're doing ball joints, replace the bushings in your control arms with ES as well.
It should tighten everything up nicely, but if you still feel your steering is sloppy then I'd attack your tie rod ends (Moog), Ball joints (Moog) - and while you're doing ball joints, replace the bushings in your control arms with ES as well.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 31
From: Fullerton, CA
Sounds like a good setup, but I recommend Energy Suspension Polyurethane sway bar bushings over Moog's rubber OEM replacements.
It should tighten everything up nicely, but if you still feel your steering is sloppy then I'd attack your tie rod ends (Moog), Ball joints (Moog) - and while you're doing ball joints, replace the bushings in your control arms with ES as well.
It should tighten everything up nicely, but if you still feel your steering is sloppy then I'd attack your tie rod ends (Moog), Ball joints (Moog) - and while you're doing ball joints, replace the bushings in your control arms with ES as well.
You will NOT get vibrations with ES sway bar bushings. I guarantee it.
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 31
From: Fullerton, CA
Edit: I just noticed the end links I ordered say they fit SE only...is this true?
Last edited by vexx786; Apr 26, 2012 at 06:02 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 29
From: Pacific Northwest
Replacing the front struts - what else to throw at it?
After reading posts on this forum for many hours I missed the one that mostly answers my question. It figures. Post 177 answered most of my question with the exception of the following:
Strut Mount: Will the brand change the ride/handling?
Strut Insulator - Need replacing?
Strut Seats - Need replacing?
Strut Mount: Will the brand change the ride/handling?
Strut Insulator - Need replacing?
Strut Seats - Need replacing?
Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 29
From: Pacific Northwest
Energy Suspension Coil Spring Isolators
One more question:
Energy Suspension makes a slide on isolator that, according to various sources is a universal fit and won't change ride height or quality. Has anyone used these on their Maxima?
http://fatbobsgarage.com/i-6449043-c...n-9-6112g.html
Energy Suspension makes a slide on isolator that, according to various sources is a universal fit and won't change ride height or quality. Has anyone used these on their Maxima?
http://fatbobsgarage.com/i-6449043-c...n-9-6112g.html
After reading posts on this forum for many hours I missed the one that mostly answers my question. It figures. Post 177 answered most of my question with the exception of the following:
Strut Mount: Will the brand change the ride/handling?
Strut Insulator - Need replacing?
Strut Seats - Need replacing?
Strut Mount: Will the brand change the ride/handling?
Strut Insulator - Need replacing?
Strut Seats - Need replacing?
Spring isolaters I never replace. If reusing OEM springs you can just flip the isolator over if the one side is worn. Aftermarket springs come with their own isolaters.
Strut seats? Which part are you referring to?