HLSD Qs, is it worth it?
01-27-2018, 06:02 AM
#1
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HLSD Qs, is it worth it?
Sup guys. Long story short im considering sourcing a HLSD 6 speed tranny. Im planning on doing full bolt ons/tune in the spring and im already going to throw in a new clutch/flywheel so that would be the time to do it if ever. My car is basically stock besides IM spacers and BOP and the torque steer i feel sometimes is already fairly significant, i cant imagine how bad itll be once im making more power.
Any recomendations on where to source one of these? I know theyre practically non existant in the US and were mainly a canadian thing but im reading that the v6 SER sentras (05-??) use the same tranny aside from some brackets that can be transferred over - Is this true? Anyone thats done this particular swap know what parts are needed aside from different axles?
Next question is price - whats the going rate? Id imagine ill wind up getting it off ebay and im seeing them from like 400 to 1000 dollars in various conditions. Whats considered reasonable?
Sorta blanket questions here. Literally any information helps. Thanks in advance!
Any recomendations on where to source one of these? I know theyre practically non existant in the US and were mainly a canadian thing but im reading that the v6 SER sentras (05-??) use the same tranny aside from some brackets that can be transferred over - Is this true? Anyone thats done this particular swap know what parts are needed aside from different axles?
Next question is price - whats the going rate? Id imagine ill wind up getting it off ebay and im seeing them from like 400 to 1000 dollars in various conditions. Whats considered reasonable?
Sorta blanket questions here. Literally any information helps. Thanks in advance!
01-27-2018, 08:23 PM
#2
The se-r sentra trans are all hsld and they're the cheapest. You have to swap the bell housing though. A new maxima bell housing can be bought for like $2-300. You can drive about 2 hours west and visit a junkyard and pull one out for like $175. You cut your trans bracket off and the bolt or weld (or both) the new trans bracket on.
01-27-2018, 09:16 PM
#3
I found one on http://car-part.com/ and had it shipped from Canada back in 2005 or so. Shipping was cheap since it came freight.
I would look for a 2004-2006 tranny since they have a better 3rd gear syncro and they don't get the 3rd gear crunch.
It's 100% worth it. It transformed the car completely. Better cornering, straight line performance and especially wet weather performance.
I can punch it in a turn and it hooks around the corner where it would light a tire and plow straight with the open dif.
When I splash through a puddle while accelerating it goes straight even if it loses traction. No jerking around.
I can give it a lot more gas in 1st and 2nd before losing traction.
I would never go back.
I would look for a 2004-2006 tranny since they have a better 3rd gear syncro and they don't get the 3rd gear crunch.
It's 100% worth it. It transformed the car completely. Better cornering, straight line performance and especially wet weather performance.
I can punch it in a turn and it hooks around the corner where it would light a tire and plow straight with the open dif.
When I splash through a puddle while accelerating it goes straight even if it loses traction. No jerking around.
I can give it a lot more gas in 1st and 2nd before losing traction.
I would never go back.
01-28-2018, 12:38 AM
#5
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: berkeley, ca
Posts: 107
echoing further from what Derrick2k2SE and Donkeypunch have stated, our Torsen helical limited slip differentials are quite special as they were sourced from the Japanese market skylines at the time. For off-the-line/handling performance and safety, a closed differential is always better than a open.
before finally breaking down and getting a suv, had plans on getting yokohama W.drive905's on 17" steelies and having a few laughs with the local, ahem, gentlemen in Lake Tahoe with their sideways style of driving their wrx's and evo's on the snow/icy roads on the way up for some boarding during winter.
wouldn't have the courage, unless i had the hlsd, plus front wheel drive with front engine pushing down with quality snow tires(x-ice, blizzacks, w-drives905s etc). driving in the Sierra Nevada's at 6000'-8000' on icy, snow packed, two lane switchbacks makes you very humble and appreciate every mechanical advantage.
bonus, Torsen type of hlsd are more durable and quicker to lock diffs, ie don't have springs that deteriorate over time in other lsd's, they are worm-gear driven, iirc.
from wikipedia:
Torsen T-1 is the brand name of the original No Gleasman Differential invented by Vernon Gleasman circa 1949 (US Patent 2,559,916 applied in 1949, granted 1951)
before finally breaking down and getting a suv, had plans on getting yokohama W.drive905's on 17" steelies and having a few laughs with the local, ahem, gentlemen in Lake Tahoe with their sideways style of driving their wrx's and evo's on the snow/icy roads on the way up for some boarding during winter.
wouldn't have the courage, unless i had the hlsd, plus front wheel drive with front engine pushing down with quality snow tires(x-ice, blizzacks, w-drives905s etc). driving in the Sierra Nevada's at 6000'-8000' on icy, snow packed, two lane switchbacks makes you very humble and appreciate every mechanical advantage.
bonus, Torsen type of hlsd are more durable and quicker to lock diffs, ie don't have springs that deteriorate over time in other lsd's, they are worm-gear driven, iirc.
from wikipedia:
Torsen T-1 is the brand name of the original No Gleasman Differential invented by Vernon Gleasman circa 1949 (US Patent 2,559,916 applied in 1949, granted 1951)
01-28-2018, 08:47 PM
#6
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Thanks for the advice guys! I was a bit on the fence as to whether or not its worth the rather large investment but from what you guys are saying its a no brainer for my situation. I spent a couple of hours stumbling around the internet and found a bit more info on using a sentra tranny - swapping the bellhousings seems extremely involved and I definitely cant afford to pay someone to do that for me. Probably going to spend a couple of months trying to source one from a 6th gen before I go that route. Really appreciate the fast replies!
Just one more Q - as far as the tranny bracket goes - is that something you can buy separate? If possible I want to preserve my 6spd non-lsd so I can sell or it or put it back on the car years down the road if i ever decide to demod the car.
Just one more Q - as far as the tranny bracket goes - is that something you can buy separate? If possible I want to preserve my 6spd non-lsd so I can sell or it or put it back on the car years down the road if i ever decide to demod the car.
01-29-2018, 08:25 AM
#7
Thanks for the advice guys! I was a bit on the fence as to whether or not its worth the rather large investment but from what you guys are saying its a no brainer for my situation. I spent a couple of hours stumbling around the internet and found a bit more info on using a sentra tranny - swapping the bellhousings seems extremely involved and I definitely cant afford to pay someone to do that for me. Probably going to spend a couple of months trying to source one from a 6th gen before I go that route. Really appreciate the fast replies!
Just one more Q - as far as the tranny bracket goes - is that something you can buy separate? If possible I want to preserve my 6spd non-lsd so I can sell or it or put it back on the car years down the road if i ever decide to demod the car.
Just one more Q - as far as the tranny bracket goes - is that something you can buy separate? If possible I want to preserve my 6spd non-lsd so I can sell or it or put it back on the car years down the road if i ever decide to demod the car.
The only bracket is the one the shifter cables attach to. The 6th gen has a better bracket but either one will work. A used tranny may or may not come with one. You don't need the bracket to sell the old tranny.
I would recommend just selling the old one. I sold mine to a rebuild shop.
If you demod the car you can leave the HLSD in it. It's not like it's a "mod" that anyone will notice, and complain about, like exhaust or suspension.
A few other things I've remembered.
* The 6th gen has a slightly shorter final drive ratio. You'll be at a higher RPM at the same speed in any gear. It's enough to help with acceleration but not really noticeable when cruising in 6th. Nobody would ever notice unless they were very familiar with the car.
* You'll have to swap the small arm where one of the cables terminates at the transmission. Just swap yours onto the new one. It's only one bolt, it only goes one way and it's all external. Nothing to it.
* There should be a lot of old threads where we were talking about this back in 2004-06 or so. There were a few of us who did a lot of research on ID numbers, how to identify HLSD etc... If you put my name in the search it may narrow it down some and lead you to the others.
02-04-2018, 10:34 PM
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Cool, you wont be disappointed. I think the Sentra had different gear ratios but I don't remember for sure. It was set up to work with a much less powerful motor.
The only bracket is the one the shifter cables attach to. The 6th gen has a better bracket but either one will work. A used tranny may or may not come with one. You don't need the bracket to sell the old tranny.
I would recommend just selling the old one. I sold mine to a rebuild shop.
If you demod the car you can leave the HLSD in it. It's not like it's a "mod" that anyone will notice, and complain about, like exhaust or suspension.
A few other things I've remembered.
* The 6th gen has a slightly shorter final drive ratio. You'll be at a higher RPM at the same speed in any gear. It's enough to help with acceleration but not really noticeable when cruising in 6th. Nobody would ever notice unless they were very familiar with the car.
* You'll have to swap the small arm where one of the cables terminates at the transmission. Just swap yours onto the new one. It's only one bolt, it only goes one way and it's all external. Nothing to it.
* There should be a lot of old threads where we were talking about this back in 2004-06 or so. There were a few of us who did a lot of research on ID numbers, how to identify HLSD etc... If you put my name in the search it may narrow it down some and lead you to the others.
The only bracket is the one the shifter cables attach to. The 6th gen has a better bracket but either one will work. A used tranny may or may not come with one. You don't need the bracket to sell the old tranny.
I would recommend just selling the old one. I sold mine to a rebuild shop.
If you demod the car you can leave the HLSD in it. It's not like it's a "mod" that anyone will notice, and complain about, like exhaust or suspension.
A few other things I've remembered.
* The 6th gen has a slightly shorter final drive ratio. You'll be at a higher RPM at the same speed in any gear. It's enough to help with acceleration but not really noticeable when cruising in 6th. Nobody would ever notice unless they were very familiar with the car.
* You'll have to swap the small arm where one of the cables terminates at the transmission. Just swap yours onto the new one. It's only one bolt, it only goes one way and it's all external. Nothing to it.
* There should be a lot of old threads where we were talking about this back in 2004-06 or so. There were a few of us who did a lot of research on ID numbers, how to identify HLSD etc... If you put my name in the search it may narrow it down some and lead you to the others.
On that note, does anyone know how to check the transmission with it off the car? Im assuming you just check the shaft for play and cycle through the gears and see if you feel/hear anything funky? Never mucked around with trannys before so thats all fuzzy to me. Also, any parts that are recomended to change while thats out? Obviously RMS, clutch/flywheel, half moon seal, but what about the master/slave cylinders or the cable? Im assuming its a case of "if it aint broke, dont fix it" but cant hurt to ask.
02-05-2018, 07:19 AM
#9
Thanks a ton dude, definitely helped me gleam some more knowledge on this swap. Waiting til I get my clutch/flywheel before I start stalking junkyards, hopefully I can get one for a good price.
On that note, does anyone know how to check the transmission with it off the car? Im assuming you just check the shaft for play and cycle through the gears and see if you feel/hear anything funky? Never mucked around with trannys before so thats all fuzzy to me. Also, any parts that are recomended to change while thats out? Obviously RMS, clutch/flywheel, half moon seal, but what about the master/slave cylinders or the cable? Im assuming its a case of "if it aint broke, dont fix it" but cant hurt to ask.
On that note, does anyone know how to check the transmission with it off the car? Im assuming you just check the shaft for play and cycle through the gears and see if you feel/hear anything funky? Never mucked around with trannys before so thats all fuzzy to me. Also, any parts that are recomended to change while thats out? Obviously RMS, clutch/flywheel, half moon seal, but what about the master/slave cylinders or the cable? Im assuming its a case of "if it aint broke, dont fix it" but cant hurt to ask.
It's probably time for RMS but it adds a fair amount of extra work to the job. You have to drop the upper oil pan to do it right. Just use a good RTV like Hondabond since it doesn't use gaskets.
You could replace the axle seals on the new tranny for good measure. They're cheap and pretty easy to change with the tranny out. They don't fail often but they can get nicked up changing axles or by a monkey at the salvage yard.
No need to change the master or slave as long as they're good. They're easy to get to with the tranny in place. Don't open the hydraulics at all. Just unbolt the slave and move it out of the way.
Also, replace the throw out bearing. Not all clutch kits come with a new one but it's worth replacing. Be careful because it can easily be put in backwards and you won't know it till it's all together and running. Make sure the kit comes with the clutch alignment tool as well.
I would recommend Redline MT90 for fluid. Three bottles will cover it and you can get it on eBay for a good price.
Will you be doing this on a lift or jackstands? Do you have air tools?
Last edited by Derrick2k2SE; 02-05-2018 at 07:25 AM.
02-05-2018, 11:08 AM
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Not much you can really do to check it. I imagine you'll have to order one anyway since they're so rare. One thing you can do is get the VIN from the car and do a history report. That will usually tell the mileage it had when it went into the yard. These units are pretty tough though. I've worked mine pretty hard for the last 12 years with no problems. You really don't hear about any either.
It's probably time for RMS but it adds a fair amount of extra work to the job. You have to drop the upper oil pan to do it right. Just use a good RTV like Hondabond since it doesn't use gaskets.
You could replace the axle seals on the new tranny for good measure. They're cheap and pretty easy to change with the tranny out. They don't fail often but they can get nicked up changing axles or by a monkey at the salvage yard.
No need to change the master or slave as long as they're good. They're easy to get to with the tranny in place. Don't open the hydraulics at all. Just unbolt the slave and move it out of the way.
Also, replace the throw out bearing. Not all clutch kits come with a new one but it's worth replacing. Be careful because it can easily be put in backwards and you won't know it till it's all together and running. Make sure the kit comes with the clutch alignment tool as well.
I would recommend Redline MT90 for fluid. Three bottles will cover it and you can get it on eBay for a good price.
Will you be doing this on a lift or jackstands? Do you have air tools?
It's probably time for RMS but it adds a fair amount of extra work to the job. You have to drop the upper oil pan to do it right. Just use a good RTV like Hondabond since it doesn't use gaskets.
You could replace the axle seals on the new tranny for good measure. They're cheap and pretty easy to change with the tranny out. They don't fail often but they can get nicked up changing axles or by a monkey at the salvage yard.
No need to change the master or slave as long as they're good. They're easy to get to with the tranny in place. Don't open the hydraulics at all. Just unbolt the slave and move it out of the way.
Also, replace the throw out bearing. Not all clutch kits come with a new one but it's worth replacing. Be careful because it can easily be put in backwards and you won't know it till it's all together and running. Make sure the kit comes with the clutch alignment tool as well.
I would recommend Redline MT90 for fluid. Three bottles will cover it and you can get it on eBay for a good price.
Will you be doing this on a lift or jackstands? Do you have air tools?
In all honesty i think this is a job where Ill be throwing in the towel and having my local shop do it for me, especially since the upper oil pan needs to come off. Itd be the most involved job ive done yet and ive done headers, full suspension/exhaust, valve covers, rad support etc etc on my old 4th gens. I REALLY want to knock this job off my little mechanic bucket list but considering I want to get it done this winter, that I have zero experience with trannys, and Im working with only jackstands and a floorjack outside in my driveway - just isnt feasible for me, especially when I only have one day off a week from work.
It kills me to have to pay someone else to do the job for me when i KNOW i can do it if i put my mind to it, but I really dont want to be under my car in freezing weather and im not confident I could tackle this in a single day - its my DD and i dont have a backup car to get to work so if anything goes sideways im totally boned.
02-05-2018, 02:13 PM
#11
It's going to be the RMS. The oil pans are sealed up really well and they don't use a gasket. Just RTV. Nissan uses a really good RTV.
It's definitely not a one day job if you're doing it in the driveway for the first time. I'd give my self two days on a lift with air tools and I've done it several times. Dropping the upper oil pan means dropping the Y-pipe, draining coolant and A lot of other stuff that doesn't come out with a regular tranny pull. A mechanic will most likely have the car more than one day.
I've done the tranny on jackasands and it's a bastard. It's really heavy, awkward and a very tight fit.
Just make sure the shop is going to use a high quality RTV and not the crap that comes with the RMS kit. You don't want to have to do this again. You might want to let them do the front oil seal too while they're at it.
It's definitely not a one day job if you're doing it in the driveway for the first time. I'd give my self two days on a lift with air tools and I've done it several times. Dropping the upper oil pan means dropping the Y-pipe, draining coolant and A lot of other stuff that doesn't come out with a regular tranny pull. A mechanic will most likely have the car more than one day.
I've done the tranny on jackasands and it's a bastard. It's really heavy, awkward and a very tight fit.
Just make sure the shop is going to use a high quality RTV and not the crap that comes with the RMS kit. You don't want to have to do this again. You might want to let them do the front oil seal too while they're at it.
02-05-2018, 07:14 PM
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It's going to be the RMS. The oil pans are sealed up really well and they don't use a gasket. Just RTV. Nissan uses a really good RTV.
It's definitely not a one day job if you're doing it in the driveway for the first time. I'd give my self two days on a lift with air tools and I've done it several times. Dropping the upper oil pan means dropping the Y-pipe, draining coolant and A lot of other stuff that doesn't come out with a regular tranny pull. A mechanic will most likely have the car more than one day.
I've done the tranny on jackasands and it's a bastard. It's really heavy, awkward and a very tight fit.
Just make sure the shop is going to use a high quality RTV and not the crap that comes with the RMS kit. You don't want to have to do this again. You might want to let them do the front oil seal too while they're at it.
It's definitely not a one day job if you're doing it in the driveway for the first time. I'd give my self two days on a lift with air tools and I've done it several times. Dropping the upper oil pan means dropping the Y-pipe, draining coolant and A lot of other stuff that doesn't come out with a regular tranny pull. A mechanic will most likely have the car more than one day.
I've done the tranny on jackasands and it's a bastard. It's really heavy, awkward and a very tight fit.
Just make sure the shop is going to use a high quality RTV and not the crap that comes with the RMS kit. You don't want to have to do this again. You might want to let them do the front oil seal too while they're at it.
I suppose that about sums it up for now. Ill post back once I source a tranny and get all this squared away. Looking forward to leaving dual stripes on the asphalt come spring!
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