JMaster

I want to install a front strut bar, but the Stillen ones are a bit too expensive for me (trying not to invest too much money in the Maxima, since I'm planning to get the G35 coupe/350z next winter).

Anyhoo, can anyone recommend a pretty cheap but decent front strut bar? I heard that all the non-Stillen hollow bars are pretty much the same, is this true?

jkratzer

I bought a "fake" Trust bar from an Ebay seller, dohccivic is his Ebay name, for $65 but there are cheaper ones on Ebay. Be warned that there are some Ebay sellers advertising "Genuine Trust Of Japan FTSB" bars that really are fake Taiwan made bars.

The bar fits fine and appears to work as good as any other.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

I bought one from a seller on Ebay called "directcarparts". Also had a group deal here recently. Personally, i like it.

2K2_6spd

iTrader: (1)

I got one from Directcarparts too, $45.00 shipped, and it fits pretty good, looks good too.

ThisMax2NV

I dont think Id buy anything from a place called EGAY!!!!

raprazant

same, same, same.

Tanman

First off, why call it egay? It's a great site to find stuff for cheap, or sell your stuff. What gives with the random bashing? Sheesh.

Alright, for a good Stillen-type bar, search for OBX or GX strut bars on eBay. Here's a pic of it:

OBX FSTB

I got it from sprinter91801 for $65, plus $12 shipping, plus $5 for bidpay charge =$82.

Padsy

iTrader: (1)

mee too....love mine.

Hobert

I got an OBX one also except I purchased the blue one. It is much more aesthetically pleasing than the round bar aluminum ones. I got mine from Red Dog Motorsports. I bought the bar for $58 with shipping the total was $70. I was willing to pay a tad more than some of the other available ones for the look.

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

I have an OBX too....love it. and I got it off ebay.


btw...are those holes on the bar used for heat releasing?

Hobert

Hmm not sure. I'm kinda leaning towards no. But they look good.

Tanman

The holes are for structural strength. A solid bar could crumple or bend with enough force. With the holes, it gives added strength. Can't explain why, I flunked physics twice in college.

Back in high school when we made the wooden CO2-powered race cars in woodshop, guys would make a long skinny body and holes for structural strength.

Tanman

I won the blue one but they sent a chrome one. Still looks nice.

maximamaybe

What will this do as far as improving handling. Sorry for the dumb question, but I have never been in a car that has one.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Tan, think "honeycomb"

maximamaybe, time to change your username anyhow, an FSTB helps make your front end more stable. There's not much holding your left and front strut towers together like the rest of the body so at times it flexes. The FSTB helps minimize that flex.

In real world applications, it helps improve steering response. That, coupled with an RSB will make (almost) a world of difference in how the Max handles.

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

yup....ur steering wheels responds to the roads better after FSTB installed. I was running slowly one day and one of the front wheel dropped into a small hole....the steering wheel turned a bit when I ran over it.




now....holes on the bar....


how does it increase the structual strength of the bar....I initally thought those are for heat reduce since our bar is located right above the engine and it takes a lot of heat from it.

maximamaybe

Thanks for the info. Do you know how to change my username? I was told once to PM somebody which I did and got no response.

Thanks;

Nathan

skeezix

The holes are for weight reduction and possibly looks. Cutting the holes in the bar makes it weaker not stronger, but by cutting round holes in the center of the bar, the loss of strength is minimal. Most of the load is carried near the edges of the bar.

Tanman

Wrong, the holes make the bar stronger. If weight was that big a deal, these bars would all be as slim as the Stillen bar or hollowed out. The OBX is a fat bar. Besides, if it was for weight reduction, they'd cut more than six holes in it.. it's still pretty heavy and removing six little chunks doesn't help.

cheesehead

I agree with skeezix, the holes are merely for looks and weight reduction. The best geometry if the force applied on the bar is compressive with a bending moment is a tube, but they usually don't look as nice as the fancy flat ones with holes. Of course the type of material used makes a difference as well (ie. a foam tube wouldn't compare to a flat aluminum bar). Not all aluminum is the same. Also, having the bar as close as possible to directly in-between the top of the struts (3-dimensionally) would minimize the amount of bending moment applied. While it is necessary to make them offcenter to avoid interference with the engine components, I've seen some bars that seem more off center than others. For a tension load, the cross sectional area of the bar at the thinnest point is what matters most. When you have a hole in the bar, the cross-sectional area of the bar w/o the hole, minus the thickness of the bar times the diameter of the hole becomes your new cross sectional area. As for heat transfer, since the flow of the air comes from the front of the engine, not the upper rear area, there would be no reduction in heat convection by the bar whether it be solid or with holes. However, whether the bar be a tube or flat, the designers most likely (hopefully) have factored in a healthy safety factor to prevent failure. Assuming same material and same area, a round tube directly between the struts would be best for stiffness.

skeezix

You can't take material away from a bar and make it stronger. Physics just doesn't work that way. You're right when you say that cutting a few holes in the bar doesn't take away that much weight. But, weight is a big deal to some people out there, i.e. carbon fiber hoods. Given two products, Stillen and OBX, that both do the job, the one that weighs less will be more expensive. They'd probably buy the Stillen. The OBX is more affordable because they probably didn't spend a ton of time optimizing the design and cutting weight out. They realized the "fat bar" worked and went with it.

Tanman

You're wrong, removing material can make a bar stronger. I wish I could explain it better, but strategically placed holes in a solid bar will make it less prone to snapping or bending. The other method (cheaper) is to use a hollow bar. Notice both the Stillen and OBX bars are solid and have the holes to add structural integrity. I'll research it, but I'm 100% sure of this.

cheesehead

Tanmann9, Obviously you own an OBX bar and feel partial towards it, but the fact is, it is not made stronger by drilling holes in it, that is simply for looks (Stillen look-alike). The reason it is bigger is that Stillen most likely uses a higher grade more expensive aluminum that has a higher max yield strength and modulus of elasticity (read stiffer) than the cheaper grade aluminum that I'm sure the OBX and most of the other strut bars are made of. Either that or Stillen is just good at marketing and has managed to convince people their products are worth paying more than twice as much as their competitors' product. To achieve comparable strength and stiffness, the OBX has to be larger than the Stillen since the majority of the bending stress occurs in the outer perimeter of the bar. Pound for pound and dollar for dollar a hollow aluminum tube is the preferable design. Research it all you want, but you will only prove yourself wrong, trust me.

Tanman

Nah it ain't like that..

I'm not the type to buy something then go out and claim it's the best product out there. I'm a realist. I got the OBX because it was a nice looking bar and cheap, but I'm no fan of their products; they're more associated with Honda and Acura cars, which I'm also not a fan of.

I'm speaking strictly from a scientific standpoint. I learned about this back in high school or college. A solid rigid bar is more prone to crumble under stress than a bar that has cross member type support. I wish I could explain it better, but if you know anything about mechanical or structural engineering, it would make sense.

I will check into this just to prove I'm right, but it doesn't really matter. Holes or no holes, any FSTB is a nice mod.

elchino

Not going to get too technical. The holes are for looks. If you take a solid rod and then bored it out, that would be the strongest. That's why tubes are used in lots of applications. e.g. fence poles, scaffolding Ever notice how rhebar seems relatively easy to bend?

Holes in the middle of something (not completely through its length) cause fatigue. Look at a brick. When a brick breaks it cracks through one of the holes (if it doesn't completely shatter). Any material has the highest stress concentration in areas where material is missing, has been bent or formed, and is thinnest. If this wasn't the case all your wrenches would have holes drilled in their handles.

Tanman

Oh ho, there's an example I was looking for. ACME bricks have the holes in them and they claim it is for increased strength and structural integrity. They are also not the cheapest bricks you can buy. This isn't the best example since we're talking bricks vs metal, but still.
Also, the FSTB is positioned with the holes running up\down along the plane of the bar. Since most stress from the strut towers is in a lateral motion (side to side), it stands to reason that the holes provide added lateral strength to the bar.

Will a mechanical engineer or architect please add their two cents??

KLOOGY

iTrader: (12)

A FSTB == A FSTB.... There is no noticable difference ..

97GLE

Bricks have holes in them to make them lighter and to hold to the mortar better. If you think about the weight of a lot of bricks, those holes add up. Also, the air space aids in sound insulation because air insulates better then a solid.

If you don't believe me, try and break a solid finishing brick and a common brick (3 holes). The solid one is much harder to break.

And kloogy's right... the bar has so much leverage where it is, that as long as its fairly solid, it will get the job done.

JMaster

Sorry force of habit. I've been posting in anandtech forums for years now and they don't let you type in "EBay" there

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

JMaster... AT

Tan, i see where you're going. Like i said, think "Honeycomb"

cheesehead

I am a mechanical engineer. Unless the bar is made really cheaply, you probably wouldn't notice much of a difference unless you perform a stress-strain test on it and most of us don't have the means nor the time to do that, plus who cares. Now fatigue life or longevity may be another case as aluminum doesn't do too well with a high number of cyclic loads (bend a piece of aluminum back and forth a number of times to see what I'm talking about). The general consensus that a FSTB is a FSTB is right, but if you like to analyze things like that it's kind of fun to talk about.

skeezix

Well, I've got a Bachelors in Aeronautical Engineering and of the THREE co-workers that I've talked to so far one has a Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering, the other two have a Master's in ME and one of them is a licensed Professional Engineer in California. Not one of us ever flunked physics and we all did quite well at Strength of Materials.

If you think putting holes in bricks will make them stronger, I've got a racing tip for you. Put 200 of your bricks in your trunk and go to the track. It's guaranteed to take .4 off your 1/4 time.

Elchino's wrong also. You take a fence pole with a 1" diameter that's hollow and one that's solid, the solid one is stronger. Round tubes are used because if you can use a larger diameter hollow tube versus a smaller diameter solid tube, get about the same strength for less weight. Go try it for yourself. Get a hollow tube and a solid tube with the same outer diameter and try to bend them both over your knee.

That was 4 degreed engineers opinion's so I guess that's 8 cents worth.

Tanman

Another good example: the honeycomb

Skeezix and Cheesehead's engineers are probably right, it's just that I learned the concept a while back. Forgot how it works exactly, but oh well.