tolian21

I am worried that there might be some quality issues when they start making those cars in US. Its going to be their first trial of making production in US, statisticly its posible to have more problems when they change locations.... hopefully not.

Just to give you an example, Mercedes 2000 ?ML SUV was first time built in US, the car turned out to be POS, numerous complaints from consumers and bad consumer reviews. Mercedes now says that all new 2002+ vechicles have all this problems fixed...
Could the same happen to Nissan?
Honestly, I would want to wait till 2005 to see how things go before getting Maxima....

JettmiesterMax

It is just common sense when something is all new you are going to have a larger window of opportunity for some problems. With any manufacturer, or brand. I had a few bugs I thought were uncommon with Nissan with my ALL NEW '91 American built SE-R. But Nissan took care fo them and they never reappeared. I would be more confident with Japanese brand all new than with domestic brand all new. Even though the new Max is American assembled, it is Japanese managed (french owned). I even waited for my 1st 91 SE-R till after all the reviews were out and it had at least 9 months of consumers behind it. I bought my 91 as the 92's were rolling in the dealers. I feel it is best to wait no matter what...

maximase86

iTrader: (24)

Nissan has been building the Altima at the plant they are going to build maxima's at for quite sometime now. I haven't heard any big complaint issues with quality in the Altima. So most likely there isn't going to be too many issues with quality. The only problem your going to see is design bugs, which ALWAYS occur when introducing a completely new car.

Sarin

Weasel

iTrader: (2)

Any car is going to have quality problems and bugs on startup, it's the nature of the beast. Whether the number of problems is slightly more with US-built cars... well... who knows. Point is if you buy a first year car you have to acknowledge that these things do happen.

tolian21

Sure, any major engineering design change is doomed for errors... that happens everywhere in industry, but my point is that on top of the design change, there will also be assembly location change(US vs. Japan).... The live example is Mercedes ML 300, it's first production was in US, and it sucked.... but then they fixed all the problems, and its a nice car...

That's why I said that I would feel more comfortable waiting till 2005 to make sure all the bugs are taken care of...

tolian21

From what I was reading in the consumer reviews and after talking to people who own Altima -- Altima's quality is not so good compared to Maxima... JDpower consumer reviews give better reliability rating to Maxima ( and I agree with their results ).

I don't know if Altima's quality has anything to do with US build or not, its a lower end model... so it's expected to be bellow Maxima...

I am very anxious to see how the quality goes in 04 Maxima... I really hope it will be the same or even better

2002Maxxxima

Yeah, but they should be able to improve that f'in paint. I've heard that 'over there' they have some funky restrictions or something they don't have here and that is why paint on stateside cars tends to be better.

Of course, I can only say 'I've heard."

TheodoreSlimm

I have both a 97 Maxima SE and a 99 Altima SE-L
They both are pretty damn good when it comes to quality.
The Maxima has better materials, but thats a flagship thing, not a quality thing. I love my cars, and the cars I will replace em with will be a Nissan product. Most likely it wont' be a 6th Gen Max. I got my eyes on the Majestic Blue 2k3 or maybe even a G35...I really like that Garnet Fire color, that ish is hot.

T-bone

iTrader: (1)

I too am worried about quality. I prided myself on the fact that the Maxima, unlike the Altima, was built in Japan. Hopefully the quality of work will not fall when production in the US begins.

Does anyone remember the movie "Gung Ho" ?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

They have been building Accords and Camrys for years in the usa.

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

also.. the new altima's.. another FYI: camaro's are made in Canada

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I wanted to help the maxima's case, not hurt it! Camaro?! hehe

DrPaulFlammond

Something that I've wondered for a while now concerning foreign cars built overseas and onshore, is there any added treating of the sheetmetal for the shipment to the US? I have no evidence of anything and wondered if anyone could shine some light. Some have suggested this to me but I've never investigated it at all. Do they do any additional treatment for the sheetmeetal for cars made in EU/Jap for the trans-oceanic shipping? Maybe even just a different exhaust as a sacrificial anode or anything? It just seems that cars built oversees NEVER RUST, while many cars built here tend to rust sooner and I wondered if there was a difference there. For example, my wifes max and mine have no rust at all, none (gen 4's). My buddies Xterra (made in US) rusted all over the place in 6 months. Rediculous. That's just one example, but I've seen many. granted it could be many other things in his case, bad torsional rigidity causing micro-cracks in paint, etc. I just wondered if anyone knew of any additional steps they take to protect from the harsh saltwater environment of the trans-oceanic shipping that then leads to better rust prevention once the car is here. That's been one thing that's concerned me about Nissan moving more manufacturing here. Don't know how that Accords hold up from here versus before they were made here, be curious to find out.

-DPF

Green 2kSE

It's not just the assembly location but a change in suppliers. The major components may still be sourced from Japan but alot of additional hardware would most likely be US-sourced. The American mindset is to NOT overengineer a product and this "good enough" philosophy is transparent in long term reliability studies. If anything, I expect more cost-cutting measures in the 2004 Max than the current "accountant-approved" generation.

Black VQ

Another thing to remember about the Altima's build quality is that it is in it's first year of production as well. Possibly when the Tenn. plant gets the "first year bugs" worked out, they will be able to use that experience with the Maxima. If so, the Maxima won't be totally free of bugs on launch, but it should have less.

Mike S.

I think people have "build quality" and "materials" mixed up. Take the Altima for an example: Its built here in the US, and is assembled very well, but the level of the materials used aren't that high. That doesn't mean poor build quality, b/c its pretty tight/rattle free etc. Now take a Caviler, it has poor "build quality" as well as crappy "materials". Parts don't fit together right, they aren't rigid and put together well.

See the difference.

Wills98MaxSE

I had a '98 Altima for a few yrs, and even though it was built here in the U.S. I never had any problems with it whatsoever so I'm quite sure the '04 Max shouldn't have any quality issues when built here

Ute

An important thing to remember is that although the car is assembled in TN, it is still designed and engineered by Nissan. Many defects that are attributed to "poor build quality", are really created in the design. The big three make all their money in SUV's, and as such, American trucks are the world standard and the cars are an afterthought. 80% of research, design, and engineering money by american makes goes towards trucks and SUV's. Cars are treated as an afterthought, and it shows in the quality. I do not believe any additional defects will occur in the new maxima that would not have occured had it been assembled overseas.

vqman

if quality becomes an issue, it's because Carlos Ghosn decided to put cheap parts in the Maxima, like he did the Altima.

American cars don't suffer from poor quality because the workers aren't putting the parts together right, it's because the parts they are being told to put together DON'T FIT!

My mother-in-law drives a 1996 Pontiac Grand Prix...go look at one of those peices of ****...

No one, not even a highly skilled Jap, could put those parts together in such a way that would make the fit and finish with Lexus-like quality...more than half of the quality, is making parts that fit snug...there are so many gaps and peices of cheap plastic on the Grand Prix...it comes down to the manufacturer buying cheap parts...or not taking the time to create interior components that fit together...

I'm sure Nissan, Toyota and the like, throw away 20-30 molds for interior peices before they get the right set of molds that fit snugly, and give you that quality feel inside your auto...

Looks like a 13 yr old went in and measured the deminsions for the Grand Prix, and made ONE mold for the plastic peices...and went with it...they didn't care if there were HUGE gaps...

Nissan won't suffer quality just because American workers are putting them together...

But if Carlos wants to start making American Profit...then we'll have to worry...and it looks like he's going that route...

-vq

Sprint

iTrader: (10)

i am watching this thread closely

sammax89

I beg to differ with the view that it does not matter where the Maxima is built. It does... here's why.

When a car is moved from Japan to the US, it's suppliers do not follow. The one big reason Nissan and the other foreign makers build in the US is because it is perceived as politically correct. Another big concern is the currency fluctuation between the yen and dollar. But, by and large, Toyota, Nissan or Honda will not come into the US and use the same Japanese suppliers they have used for decades in Japan. They are forced to use as much American content as humanly possible. I once read an article about how Toyota is SOOOOO focused on quality (they have built their reputation off of it), that they are willing to alienate and INSIST their US suppliers meet their quality standards. I think Honda also does that to a lesser degree (the Honda Pilot is full of faulty N.A. supplied parts), and Nissan to a somewhat lesser degree still.

There is no question in my mind that Americans can BUILD quality cars, it's whether or not the manufacturer is DEDICATED to using suppliers that meet the same standards they had in Japan. On that point, except for Toyota, the others are willing to trade some supplier quality for affordability and political brownie points.

When looking for cars in the last 14 years, I have focused on "Built in Japan" as an overriding factor. NEVER been let down. Can always buy a first year model with all assurances. Now, it'll be a gamble just like buying a Ford or Chevy (probably not quite so bad).

Heck, even Consumer Reports noticed a fall in reliability in the new Altimas and Camrys. NOT good!

Mark S.

I hate to say this...but you wil have to look at your average U.S. autoworker vs his counterpart in Japan. Differences in education, work ethic, union vs no unions, etc. It's sad but true.

vqman

I'm pretty sure Japan has a STRONG union workforce...they just don't make the demands that our cry-baby union workers do. (i know, I am one) Communications Workers of America.

I think what sammax89 is saying is more along the lines of what I am saying. If you took the parts that Pontiac suppliers gave GM, and took them to Japan, let some Japanese workers put together a few thouand Grand Prix's they would still be poor in quality.

Because the parts suck.

The workers may be a little bit better over there, but their parts are WAY better over there...and it has ALOT to do with what the company DEMANDS from the people that are supplying the parts.

-vq

MaxSand02

I would like to add a couple of points to this thread.

First of all, higher quality production costs more money. I sincerely believe that US engineering and manufacturing can be easily the most reliable in the world. (Check out statistics of successful space lunches for US versus others, as an example.) The question is what would be the price tag then. And that is the crucial question. More expensive stuff means fewer customers; fewer customers entails much less profit. Furthermore, R&D cost per unit also goes up with smaller scale of production. Management and marketing departments of US corporations have already figured that out. US consumers in their mass prefer lower quality, but cheaper products. Unfortunately, but true. Some people call it: K-mart mentality. Here we go.

Second, "Japanese made" does not automatically imply superior quality. Not so good quality of Mitsubishi cars in the past was one of such examples. You can open Consumer Report and check the numbers of problems for different manufactures for yourself.

At last, I am somewhat concerned in regard of what happens to Nissan's quality after French partial takeover. Perhaps, my feeling is wrong, I hope so. However, I am afraid that Nissan's quality is already down and it is just the beginning. (1) Sentra is produced in Mexico. No disrespect to Mexicans, but their quality control is bad. I am not aware of any reliable cars assembled in Mexico. Quite to the contrast, Beetle, Jetta, a number of Chryslers made in Mexico ranked below average, according to Consumer Report. (2) Maxima 02 had a new engine, but otherwise it was the third year production car. It had 3(!) recalls. Meanwhile, Maxima 97 was arguebly the most reliable car in its class. (3) It is not part of French mentality to spend enormous amount of effort, time and money to triple check everything. I bet French CEO will try to cut the cost on quality controls and cheaper contractors. (4) A couple of month ago I saw a long interview with GM CEO. He mentioned Nissan's experience. From what he said I've got a feeling that Nissan cuts cost on quality since it is too good. In return, Nissan introduced a lot of new models and greatly improved its financial situation.

I hope that my thoughts would be useful.

sammax89

My post could not possibly contain everything I WANTED to write, so your post adds to what I think. There is no question that there are second and third tier makers in Japan (Mitsu, Suzuki, Mazda, et al) that use second rate and even first rate Japanese suppliers, but do not insist on perfection, or because of their small size, do not have the leverage to threaten the supplier if the parts are less than perfect. It is a long standing fact that Toyota, Nissan, and Honda (Japan's Big 3) have traditionally built the best quality vehicles. In my opinion, Le Cost Cutter (Ghosn) is in a precarious position right now. He seems to be choosing quick profits and threatening Nissan's position as a quality leader. I certainly do not want Nissans to become nothin' but fast Mitsus. For me, Toyota is all about quality... no spice. Honda is a nice compromise, but it leans less toward personality and more toward "safe" designs. Nissan has always been a quality car that had some attitude. The Altima now has attitude, but the material quality is abysmal (check out an Accord's materials for reference).

On the point that Mexican built cars are poor... but of course! Each country insists their plants are to be supplied by local suppliers. The plants in Mexico use Mexican sourced parts (as much as possible). Therefore, a model can differ in it's quality and reliability based on where it's produced. The parts are the same design and have the same specs as US or Japanese supplied, but are manufactured by local suppliers by local, less caring employees.

Finally, as soon as the UAW is able to finagle their way into the Japanese owned, N.A. plants, say Sayonara! to BUILD quality as well as supplier quality. Why do you think they don't want the unions in there?

Between Nissan's recent cost cutting (understandable in the short term) and their zeal to build everything in North America, I worry that the cars I have loved for so long as the best of both worlds (Honda and Toyota) will not meet MY expectations and that will be a sad day indeed!