ha ha ha. True that, Man. I don't know why people do that either. I like all the Maxs...esp. the 4th, 5th and 6th gens. They are all sweet. Although I have yet to be able to drive one of those 6th gen monsters to see what all the fun fuss is about.
I also like the TL. From everything I read and hear, it is engineered even better than the older ones. More power to them, I am just more of a Nissan fan.

 

The 6th Generation MAX is great looking from all angles "eye candy" really. Just let yourself relax and enjoy it. K-1111

 

Why would anyone get mad over people posting their opinions on how a car looks? Once it ain't a personal attack, it should be okay no? It's a FORUM. FORUMS are where people talk.

And the new TL totally OWNSZ the new Maxima for the same price PERIOD.

 

Thanks for your opinion.

 

Your opinion is greatly appreciated. I'm sure this statement will make a lot of 6th gen owners kick themselves for not buying the TL.

 

Us Max owners should stop talking smack to each other and just get along and learn about each others cars. Its ok to talk smack about other cars just no the Max mainly Gens 3-6!

 

Torque is the main reason you don't see manual GTP's.

I really don't notice any in my 98 GTP, with 307 FWT, but it is an auto.

They could work a little more and solve the problem, and I am shocked that neither Nissan or Honda addressed the issue before releasing their new models.

I am sure the next year models will though. One can hope anyway.

 

If one looks at the passenger volume, Maxima is ahead of most mid-sized cars including Accord and Camry. Consumer's Reports gave the Maxima a perfect rear seat comfort ranking, not often seen. The trunk in the Maxima is definitely up there among import sedans. So who cares if the Maxima has torque steer because it can double as a roomy family sedan with a thick cool looking style.

The all-new Acura TL on the other hand cannot be as easily excused from the torque steer phenomena. Given its smaller dimensions and especially smaller trunk, the importance of the classy driving experience is magnified.

The Maxima is a very special car. It sits right in the bullseye of $26,000-$36,000 sedans. How many cars are cross-shopped by so many different market types? I bet Maxima is cross shopped by:

1.) Accord, Passat, and to lesser degree Camry prospects among family types.
2.) Grand Prix GTP prospects among those who want a 4-door daily driver that holds its own in stoplight drags
3.) G35, Acura TL, A4, IS300, and 325i prospects for those young professionals who want to stay one step ahead in the fashion curve.
4.) even Avalon and ES330 among luxury fanatics. It may sound like a stretch but just the other day at the post office, I saw a late 40s/early 50s lady get into a beautiful silver temp tagged Maxima SL.

Now doubt a Grand Prix GTP is cross shopped by an ES330 prospect. Same goes for a Camry by an Audi A4 prospect. Or a Passat by a G35 prospect. But the Maxima bubble encapsulates all market types above.

 

Im really not digging the 6th gen Maxima's I see on the road. I would rather spend my money on a G35 sedan. FWD sucks for performance and handling. My next car will be RWD or AWD.

 

Yet you got a 2K Max? Interesting.

 

I bought my car almost 4 years ago. Now, that I have advanced my driving skills and gotten into road racing I have realized that FWD isn't the greatest platform for perfomance. If I was in the market for a sedan, I wouldn't look at a Maxima when the G35 is very close in price. That being said I will probably have a 350Z come springtime.

 

if you had to buy a car all over again, and your only choice in the world was a 5th gen and a 6th gen, what would you get?

 

I've had both. Im gonna go w/ 6th gen. For what it's worth, my 5th (AE) didn't have the 3.5

 

I would also take the 6th gen, hands down.

 

Same here had both (AE), and had many test drives before I bought. The feel of the 6th gen is sooo much better. Power is nice also, and the 5 sp auto, and the stock 18rms and the IRS and the ...

 

If my AE had been a VQ35 I might not have been looking for a new car after only two years, but after 8 months in my 2k4 I can't imagine going back to a 5th gen.

 

I really like how the 6th gen rims kinda look like the 350z rims... and I would get the 6th gen just for the 5spd auto!

 

Yeah, if the Nissan dealership is insane and they're trying to charge the same price on a Maxima comparably equipped as the TL then yes, I'd be buying the TL.

But the more things change, the more they remain the same. A comparably equipped Maxima is still thousands less than the TL. MSRPs may be similar, but you won't see those Acuras going anywhere much below MSRP whereas you'll be walking away with a Maxima at or near invoice price if not below.

And plus that little 3.2 is very overburdened anyways. I'd much rather have the torquey VQ under the hood. Get rid of that 3.2 garbage and swap in a VQ35 in the TL and I'd be driving home in the TL.

 

I don't think the engine is overburdened. But the FWD layout is and cleary the tranny. And the cars engines are equally quiet and acceleration is a moot point. I'd prefer an engine with a lil less torque and more exclusivity (the reason one pays more for a car) than an engine in every thing from scooters to buses that Nissan makes. That is just me though. Both engines are incredible and clearly, the VQ is the V-6 engine TO HAVE.

 

I dont disagree with Steve often but, this will be a rare moment.

I will agree that Nissan Dealers are willing to discount the Max versus Acura, who's marking the TL up as we speak. So though the MSRPs are the same, once the dealing begins the final price will go in opposite directions.

As far as the TL's torque, if it has heavy torque steer now (@ 238 lb-ft), can you imagine the torque steer if it had the Maxima's 255lb-ft. Torque is only as good as the car that can put it to the pavement effectively. (something I've come to learn about in my 2k2 Max)

As far as motors go, the VQ35DE and Honda J-series (Accord 240hp-250hp J30A included) are simply AWESOME. No losers in that category. Win-win proposition.

The only hangup I have about the new TL is its FWD layout. (as indicated by 1sicklex) Acura HAS TO change that before ANYTHING else.

Peace.

 

I must admit that at first I was not crazy about the 04 Maxima. Then again I wasn't too crazy about the 95 model either. This is my third Max,93 GXE and 98SE were my previous two. As for the 04 Max it looks more appealing now. I must admit I like the twin dual exhaust (aggressive). I am a Maxima fan period and will probably buy a 6th gen. when I am done with my 03 SE.

 

Probably a 5th gen, but 02+ 6 speed.

 

Well yeah a custom tweaked engine is of value to some folks. But with Honda quality control being seriously questioned these days, I in turn have to really question the value of custom tweaking and certifying one of their J-series V-6 engines for each and every one of their V6 cars when they could just standardize on a set engine. All of that costs a lot of money to do, money that could be better spent elsewhere such as the tranny's and the other misc quality control issues.

Toyota has long standardized on their 1MZ-FE and now 3MZ-FE (bored out 3.3L version of 1MZ) engines. Nissan has standardized on the VQ35DE. To differentiate, they simply rate differently even though the engine probably has about the same power in most cases regardless of ratings. The Max very well could have 280hp and 270tq like the G35 coupe. Both of these companies can take the money they save by using a standardized engine and putting that instead into other elements of the car which also need attention. It's simply a tradeoff.

 

I read the Acura forum and they said the torque steer was being blown way out of proportion, so

I agree, but it's just a question of driving style and personal preferences. Having owned all three of the mainstream 3.0L V6's from Japan (Honda J30A1, Nissan VQ30DE, Toyota 1MZ-FE), I can tell you that I *much* prefer the torquier "more power sooner" power delivery of the Nissan and Toyota engines as compared to the Honda. That's just me, though.

And that's why I say I'd be getting a Max given the two choices. At sub-$30k very well equipped, I think FWD is still "okay" since you're not really paying a premium price. For over $30k, I want something better than FWD. That's why I wouldn't buy the TL. I'm only willing to pay so much for a FWD car and the Acura just goes beyond that for me. Otherwise it's a fine car. But they'll still get away with selling a ton of them because there are enough people that don't want/care/know about RWD enough to make it worth something to them. The TL is an excellent car for those wanting an entry-lux sedan but do NOT want RWD. It's a nice little niche that Honda has found. A niche that I'll take a pass on.

 

Given the demand for the new TL (not to mention dealer markup), I'll agree with that.

It's been a while but, I think it's time for me to go on some test drives.

 

When i first signed on to maxima.org, i used to dissagree with steve...I cant even remember about what..... Then I realized he is smart as hell and the b!tch knows what hes talking about!.. He is definatly the man... and if he says he would get a TL, then you can count on me getting one too....

I have always loved and will always love the Honda engines.... wether they are weak or powerful... after taking out my teenage experimentations on cars on a honda with 200k on it......... I did so many things to that car... and it put up with it.... there was not one day i didnt redline it..... I am a firm believer in Honda.


As far as the Acura/honda tranny goes.... I think i dont care if their trannies break every day... its got a 100k warranty on it... and they (Honda) stand by their work.... Besides, the tranny deal from what i hear only affted 2 percent of Honda/Acura of North America... As for nissan... i will be awaiting my missing 15HP!.. until then, im never buying another nissan.......... (well maybe the Armada).

And I not biased towards any car company.. I like any company who makes good cars.... Like the camry.. i dispise it for its looks, it makes me sick... But damn I would buy one in a heartbeat just beacuse they are so reliable....

 

The TL is an alright car judging from the reviews. I don't think it can be a world class player until it changes to RWD. All of it's competitors have RWD, which is a "performance" selling point. Acura will probably switch most of it's vehicles to RWD or AWD in the future to match the competition.

 

I agree with your post except for the last sentence. So long as TL demand is high, there's really no need (as far as Honda is concerned) to develop a RWD or even AWD platform for the TL.

I always use this example of Honda's tendancy to go in their own direction: When Honda's chief Accord competition - the Camry - hit the market in 1988 (2G) with an optional V6 motor, Honda resisted putting a V6 in the Accord until the 1995 model year; and the 5G Accord was developed with a non-consideration of a V6. As a result of consistently growing market demand for a V6 family car (and given the fact that the 6G Accord V6 may have been on the drawing board), Honda buckled and had to stretch the 5G Accord by 3 inches in order to accomodate the Legend's 2.7L V6.

But Honda does kinda gamble in that regard; one example of Honda's success in their gambling is VTEC technology. While the late 80s/early 90s fad with Japanese performance cars were turbos (Supra, Celica All-Trac, Starion, Eclipse, 3000GT, 280ZX, 300ZX, MR2, Mirage), Honda must have initially seen this as a temporary trend and directed their efforts towards variable valve timing and lift as an alternate means of making more power with small displacement motors. Ultimately, turbos were pretty much extinct in USDM Japanese cars throughout the late 90s and most cars started moving towards higher compression, variable valve timing motors. (i.e.: VANOS, VVTi, MIVEC, etc...)

(My guess is that if Honda sees the RWD thing as a fleeting fad, they'll hold out before deciding to equip the TL accordingly.)

So, unless demand for a RWD sports sedan reaches the point where TL sales at least level off noticeably, it probably wont happen.

Sorry for going long; I just figured I'd share my opinion of Honda's probable mindset.

Peace

 

Actually, Nissan's gen1 NVCS variable valve timing system was out before Honda's VTEC was.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=262261

I could argue on pretty solid ground that Honda's VTEC variable lift system is sorta a "fad" and that they've only continued putting it in every car they make just because it's their trademark and they built their name on it. It's a lot of hype (IMO) and the high peak horsepower without torque to back it up creates engines that look much more powerful on paper than they really are in the real-world due to lack of torque.

But I do agree with you. Acura has been doing just fine selling tons of TLs at MSRP or more and still FWD so there's plenty of demand. Now to be taken seriously as a legitimate 3/5-series or G35 competitor, it will definitely need RWD for that. Hence, C&D tore the car up in their review because Acura is the one that's positioning the car as a RWD competitor even though it's still an extremely heavy FF car, though. It's a great "TOURING" sedan. I don't think a 3600lb FF car could possibly be a "sports" sedan. But the ricers won't know the difference anyways, so what does Acura care.


Definitely gonna get flamed for that one.

 

I def think honda did a smart thing not investing much time in Turbo....

but I fart on them for not investing any V8s!!!