Still think car mags missed the boat
06-07-2004, 08:37 AM
#41
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
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Earlier in this thread, I mentioned Consumer Reports ranking the '04 Maxima above the G35. I probably should also have mentioned that the May, '04 issue of Kiplinger's Personal Finance compared 24 midsize midprice sedans, and the Maxima was rated the best.
As the leadin to the article, they interviewed a young couple from Huntersville, NC. The couple began their search with a 'blank slate', test drove lots of cars, narrowed things down to four cars (including the Accura TL and the Infiniti G35), and decided the Maxima gave (and I quote) 'more bang for the buck, HANDS DOWN'.
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My opinion remains: if you live where it never rains, never snows, and there is never ice or slush on the ground, and can do with a tad less room, then do include the G35 among your choices. Otherwise, it is between the Maxima and the G35X (clearly more expensive than the Max).
As the leadin to the article, they interviewed a young couple from Huntersville, NC. The couple began their search with a 'blank slate', test drove lots of cars, narrowed things down to four cars (including the Accura TL and the Infiniti G35), and decided the Maxima gave (and I quote) 'more bang for the buck, HANDS DOWN'.
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My opinion remains: if you live where it never rains, never snows, and there is never ice or slush on the ground, and can do with a tad less room, then do include the G35 among your choices. Otherwise, it is between the Maxima and the G35X (clearly more expensive than the Max).
06-07-2004, 09:15 AM
#43
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Big, honkin, tire- smoking, frame twistin', gas guzzlin', loud as all hell, faster- than- lightning V8's! Not to mention that most RWD, and AWD cars can be made to handle better than any FWD ever could. Also, they're easy to find, cheap to buy and build.
06-07-2004, 01:23 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by DAREN
i own a VE and VQ 5 speed
if was in the position to buy, i like the G35 sedan 6MT. as stated the G35 is a smaller car. the dimensions remind me a lot of my 3rd gen (which happens to be my favorite) i bought both of my maiximas because they were sporty and had good power (for their time).
i agree with those that say the altima (V6 5SP models) were aimed at some of the maxima crowd. the new platform that the 04+ Maxima and 02+ Altima share if very good and as long as the altima sells well and Max does OK on its own the Maxima will be around. if the Altima is the bread and butter volume car the Maxima is the higher margin lower volume version.
i think the new Maxima is more of a boulevard or long distance "cruiser." mostly because of the increase in size. it still has the power, and handles better than most of its competitiors, (looking across the entire market) so i dont think much has changed in that respect. i have driven both of my maximas from CT to FL and back as well as my mothers 96 Auto. there were times that i wished i had the the conveniece of the automatic when i drove my 2 5sp cars. however the biggest gripe with the automatic is that the gear ratios just didnt match the engine power curves at certain speeds. i would hit the gas and whether the car downshifted or held the gear there was no passing power. i never experienced this with my VE 5sp or VQ 5 sp. this is where the 5SP Auto in the 04 SE max shines for me. 5 gears and shifting is optional, i really love that feature. to be honest if i bought an 04 Maxima i am leaning towards the SE with 5sp auto tranny. (what if somebody does the swap into an auto altima or nissan does it themselves??)
the altima just represents a great bargain. roomy cabin plenty of power (V6) handles fairly well, reasonble $$$.
just as the vehicles evolve so do the buyers and their tastes. i like to look at it as if nissan is trying to put something out there for everbody. i think all 3 of these cars a great in their own respects.if you look in their entire lineup you can find something that will meet your criteria.
drivetrian, amenities, handling, price.
if was in the position to buy, i like the G35 sedan 6MT. as stated the G35 is a smaller car. the dimensions remind me a lot of my 3rd gen (which happens to be my favorite) i bought both of my maiximas because they were sporty and had good power (for their time).
i agree with those that say the altima (V6 5SP models) were aimed at some of the maxima crowd. the new platform that the 04+ Maxima and 02+ Altima share if very good and as long as the altima sells well and Max does OK on its own the Maxima will be around. if the Altima is the bread and butter volume car the Maxima is the higher margin lower volume version.
i think the new Maxima is more of a boulevard or long distance "cruiser." mostly because of the increase in size. it still has the power, and handles better than most of its competitiors, (looking across the entire market) so i dont think much has changed in that respect. i have driven both of my maximas from CT to FL and back as well as my mothers 96 Auto. there were times that i wished i had the the conveniece of the automatic when i drove my 2 5sp cars. however the biggest gripe with the automatic is that the gear ratios just didnt match the engine power curves at certain speeds. i would hit the gas and whether the car downshifted or held the gear there was no passing power. i never experienced this with my VE 5sp or VQ 5 sp. this is where the 5SP Auto in the 04 SE max shines for me. 5 gears and shifting is optional, i really love that feature. to be honest if i bought an 04 Maxima i am leaning towards the SE with 5sp auto tranny. (what if somebody does the swap into an auto altima or nissan does it themselves??)
the altima just represents a great bargain. roomy cabin plenty of power (V6) handles fairly well, reasonble $$$.
just as the vehicles evolve so do the buyers and their tastes. i like to look at it as if nissan is trying to put something out there for everbody. i think all 3 of these cars a great in their own respects.if you look in their entire lineup you can find something that will meet your criteria.
drivetrian, amenities, handling, price.
06-08-2004, 09:35 AM
#45
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
You guys and your RWD obsession. If RWD were all it took to make a car great, we'd have a much different opinion of Pintos, Edsels and Chevy II's. FWD definitely has its place, and it certainly doesn't keep a car from being "great".
Mike
Mike
It takes more than RWD to make a car great....but it's the only starting point for the great cars of past & present.
FWD has its place as a practical & economical application for today's economy cars and those in winter climates.
06-08-2004, 11:28 AM
#46
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
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Living south of Atlanta, I seldom see snow, ice, etc. But I still find the Maxima to be the best combination of price, room, power, sportiness, looks, reliability, comfort and convenience for me.
Then of course I use the rubber on MY tires to go to wonderful and exotic places. Some (especially some RWD fans) seem to prefer using that same rubber to paint ugly black stripes on the pavement, going essentially nowhere.
But, to each his/her own.
Then of course I use the rubber on MY tires to go to wonderful and exotic places. Some (especially some RWD fans) seem to prefer using that same rubber to paint ugly black stripes on the pavement, going essentially nowhere.
But, to each his/her own.
06-08-2004, 11:47 AM
#47
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
Living south of Atlanta, I seldom see snow, ice, etc. But I still find the Maxima to be the best combination of price, room, power, sportiness, looks, reliability, comfort and convenience for me.
Then of course I use the rubber on MY tires to go to wonderful and exotic places. Some (especially some RWD fans) seem to prefer using that same rubber to paint ugly black stripes on the pavement, going essentially nowhere.
But, to each his/her own.
Then of course I use the rubber on MY tires to go to wonderful and exotic places. Some (especially some RWD fans) seem to prefer using that same rubber to paint ugly black stripes on the pavement, going essentially nowhere.
But, to each his/her own.
...For what I'm paying for gas, I'm going to ENJOY IT!
06-08-2004, 05:04 PM
#48
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I'd say this thread has illustrated my original point ... there are those who are too biased to give FWD a chance, and there are others who know that if the Maxima is driven the way people really drive cars (yeah, including a smokey burnout every now and then), it turns out to be a really fine automobile.
And if the car mag guys would turn off their RWD snobbishness for long enough to take an '04 Maxima as a long-term tester, I think they'd be eating crow within a couple of weeks and changing their opinions. After all, the goodness of RWD (which is basically that you can power slide through turns and tight curves by jumping on the gas and hanging the rearend out) goes only so far in the real world. I mean, how often do you really do that ... except maybe in your dreams and in the tall tales you tell your buddies.
Mike
And if the car mag guys would turn off their RWD snobbishness for long enough to take an '04 Maxima as a long-term tester, I think they'd be eating crow within a couple of weeks and changing their opinions. After all, the goodness of RWD (which is basically that you can power slide through turns and tight curves by jumping on the gas and hanging the rearend out) goes only so far in the real world. I mean, how often do you really do that ... except maybe in your dreams and in the tall tales you tell your buddies.
Mike
06-08-2004, 07:12 PM
#49
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
I'd say this thread has illustrated my original point ... there are those who are too biased to give FWD a chance, and there are others who know that if the Maxima is driven the way people really drive cars (yeah, including a smokey burnout every now and then), it turns out to be a really fine automobile.
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
And if the car mag guys would turn off their RWD snobbishness for long enough to take an '04 Maxima as a long-term tester, I think they'd be eating crow within a couple of weeks and changing their opinions.
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
After all, the goodness of RWD (which is basically that you can power slide through turns and tight curves by jumping on the gas and hanging the rearend out) goes only so far in the real world. I mean, how often do you really do that ... except maybe in your dreams and in the tall tales you tell your buddies.
Mike
Mike
A RWD car has better balance.
A RWD car will not push like a pig in the corners.
A RWD will not light up the inside wheel every time when you try and accelerate out of a corner.
A RWD car can take off faster with less wheelspin than a FWD car.
06-08-2004, 08:38 PM
#50
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Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
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shodog - wouldn't you be happier on the Porsche board? Afraid I gotta side with Mike_TX on this one.
I drove RWD cars for thirty-six years, and put over a million miles on those cars, and some of those were kinda wild miles. I have now driven FWD cars for nineteen years, and have put over 400,000 miles on FWD cars. For me, FWD has proven best in every way that matters.
Sure, FWD pushes in the corners until you analyze the difference in dynamics of a RWD car vs a FWD car. Once you master the traits of FWD, you can use it to assist in PULLING IN THE DIRECTION YOU WANT TO GO thru fast turns, rather than having to overcome the STRAIGHT PUSH of RWD.
As to taking off with less wheelspin with RWD, that may be true for those that simply stomp the pedal. But once you learn the nuances of FWD, it is possible to 'work' the pedal just under max power until the car is moving, then quickly increase power, using the much greater percentage of weight on the front wheels of a FWD car to avoid spinning as you enter maximum acceleration. I find powerful RWD cars under maximum acceleration tend to spin the wheels with every gear change, due to the lighter weight over the drive wheels.
And all that is not even taking into account the clearly superior performance of FWD over RWD in snow, slush, ice, mud, or any off-pavement situation.
Using the Ferrari, Porsche or Jaguar to argue against FWD is meaningless. The Ferrari, Porsche and Jaguar are as much phallic symbols as they are transportation. The 'image', and personality of the target drivers for these cars require that they be RWD. If a car is to be driven 'all out' frequently, and image is more important than substance, then these cars are the ticket.
But for the real world, I find the Maxima so much better. Best of all, I can actually afford the Maxima.
I drove RWD cars for thirty-six years, and put over a million miles on those cars, and some of those were kinda wild miles. I have now driven FWD cars for nineteen years, and have put over 400,000 miles on FWD cars. For me, FWD has proven best in every way that matters.
Sure, FWD pushes in the corners until you analyze the difference in dynamics of a RWD car vs a FWD car. Once you master the traits of FWD, you can use it to assist in PULLING IN THE DIRECTION YOU WANT TO GO thru fast turns, rather than having to overcome the STRAIGHT PUSH of RWD.
As to taking off with less wheelspin with RWD, that may be true for those that simply stomp the pedal. But once you learn the nuances of FWD, it is possible to 'work' the pedal just under max power until the car is moving, then quickly increase power, using the much greater percentage of weight on the front wheels of a FWD car to avoid spinning as you enter maximum acceleration. I find powerful RWD cars under maximum acceleration tend to spin the wheels with every gear change, due to the lighter weight over the drive wheels.
And all that is not even taking into account the clearly superior performance of FWD over RWD in snow, slush, ice, mud, or any off-pavement situation.
Using the Ferrari, Porsche or Jaguar to argue against FWD is meaningless. The Ferrari, Porsche and Jaguar are as much phallic symbols as they are transportation. The 'image', and personality of the target drivers for these cars require that they be RWD. If a car is to be driven 'all out' frequently, and image is more important than substance, then these cars are the ticket.
But for the real world, I find the Maxima so much better. Best of all, I can actually afford the Maxima.
06-08-2004, 08:47 PM
#51
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 217
...For what I'm paying for gas, I'm going to ENJOY IT!
A RWD car will not push like a pig in the corners.
A RWD will not light up the inside wheel every time when you try and accelerate out of a corner.
A RWD car can take off faster with less wheelspin than a FWD car.
06-08-2004, 08:48 PM
#52
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
Living south of Atlanta, I seldom see snow, ice, etc. But I still find the Maxima to be the best combination of price, room, power, sportiness, looks, reliability, comfort and convenience for me.
Then of course I use the rubber on MY tires to go to wonderful and exotic places. Some (especially some RWD fans) seem to prefer using that same rubber to paint ugly black stripes on the pavement, going essentially nowhere.
But, to each his/her own.
Then of course I use the rubber on MY tires to go to wonderful and exotic places. Some (especially some RWD fans) seem to prefer using that same rubber to paint ugly black stripes on the pavement, going essentially nowhere.
But, to each his/her own.
IDK you lived in the ATL area... cool.
06-09-2004, 05:52 AM
#53
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
I'd say this thread has illustrated my original point ... there are those who are too biased to give FWD a chance, and there are others who know that if the Maxima is driven the way people really drive cars (yeah, including a smokey burnout every now and then), it turns out to be a really fine automobile.
As far bias goes, I'm not surprised to see Maxima owners biased to the layout their cars, especially after investing $30k+ and taking it to a personal level.
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
And if the car mag guys would turn off their RWD snobbishness for long enough to take an '04 Maxima as a long-term tester, I think they'd be eating crow within a couple of weeks and changing their opinions. After all, the goodness of RWD (which is basically that you can power slide through turns and tight curves by jumping on the gas and hanging the rearend out) goes only so far in the real world. I mean, how often do you really do that ... except maybe in your dreams and in the tall tales you tell your buddies.
Mike
Mike
How did they develop this bias? Were they paid off? Or could it be the simple fact that RWD cars perform better, or the fact that in a FWD car that most of the front wheels.
So you're saying that FWD can do all that RWD can do except that it can't hit the corners the same way -- doesn't that still make RWD better? It doesn't matter how often one does, it matters that it can do it.
Most of real life driving entails driving in a straight line, and in that case, anyone can figure out that RWD/FWD doesn't matter.
Once every professional racer and every professional racing circuit starts using FWD, you'l have me convinced.
06-09-2004, 06:20 AM
#54
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by CoolMax
I don't think anyone is too biased to give FWD a chance, we're just saying it doesn't excel as well as RWD in performance applications.
As far bias goes, I'm not surprised to see Maxima owners biased to the layout their cars, especially after investing $30k+ and taking it to a personal level.
The car mag conspiracy, my favorite.
How did they develop this bias? Were they paid off? Or could it be the simple fact that RWD cars perform better, or the fact that in a FWD car that most of the front wheels.
So you're saying that FWD can do all that RWD can do except that it can't hit the corners the same way -- doesn't that still make RWD better? It doesn't matter how often one does, it matters that it can do it.
Most of real life driving entails driving in a straight line, and in that case, anyone can figure out that RWD/FWD doesn't matter.
Once every professional racer and every professional racing circuit starts using FWD, you'l have me convinced.
As far bias goes, I'm not surprised to see Maxima owners biased to the layout their cars, especially after investing $30k+ and taking it to a personal level.
The car mag conspiracy, my favorite.
How did they develop this bias? Were they paid off? Or could it be the simple fact that RWD cars perform better, or the fact that in a FWD car that most of the front wheels.
So you're saying that FWD can do all that RWD can do except that it can't hit the corners the same way -- doesn't that still make RWD better? It doesn't matter how often one does, it matters that it can do it.
Most of real life driving entails driving in a straight line, and in that case, anyone can figure out that RWD/FWD doesn't matter.
Once every professional racer and every professional racing circuit starts using FWD, you'l have me convinced.
Similarly, AWD is a choice for middle ground, but you lose some power with 4 wheels gripping the ground - especially at at launch, so there is no absolute best. Like everything else in life there are compromises. FWD, AWD and RWD each have their own pros and cons and unless you live where winter roads don't exist it is hard to discount the merits of FWD.
Not to speak for anyone, but how many people actually buy a sports sedan with performance as their #1 priority? I would think that many give significant consideration to roominess, comfort, safety, build quality, reliability, and cost-benefit (i.e. value) as well as performance. One can make a strong arguement that the Maxima fits this bill as well as any other car being sold today. Otherwise, we may as well all be driving Dodge Vipers.
06-09-2004, 06:31 AM
#55
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
shodog - wouldn't you be happier on the Porsche board? Afraid I gotta side with Mike_TX on this one. .
I'd be happier on the Porsche board as well. Aren't you happier to be here than the Civic board?
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
I drove RWD cars for thirty-six years, and put over a million miles on those cars, and some of those were kinda wild miles. I have now driven FWD cars for nineteen years, and have put over 400,000 miles on FWD cars. For me, FWD has proven best in every way that matters.
How many FWD cars were available when you started driving?
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
Using the Ferrari, Porsche or Jaguar to argue against FWD is meaningless. The Ferrari, Porsche and Jaguar are as much phallic symbols as they are transportation. The 'image', and personality of the target drivers for these cars require that they be RWD. If a car is to be driven 'all out' frequently, and image is more important than substance, then these cars are the ticket..
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
But for the real world, I find the Maxima so much better. Best of all, I can actually afford the Maxima.
06-09-2004, 07:20 AM
#57
Originally Posted by SHIFT_NY
As an ideal, sure RWD drive excels in performance - and fun, but let's go back to the poor weather applications for a second with a rhetorical question: Who's going to do better hitting the corners with fresh snow on the ground??? It is not practical in the real world to deem FWD superior by only looking at the performance benefit. I'm surprised to hear this coming from a midwesterner or anyone who drives in snow on a regular basis. It is well understood and accepted that FWD - by design - gives up some performance for handling in poor road conditions.
That's because my argument was directed at driving/handling/performance in ideal condiitions.
Obviously, now that you've introduced inclement weather (snow) into the equation, that changes things.
But frankly, I haven't FWD to be of a considerable advantage, in fact it may even magnify its faults: when accelerating you have to modulate the gas regardless of the layout (FWD/RWD), FWD usually gives an advantage because the weight over the wheels...something RWD owners try to defeat with added weight (sandbags) over the rear wheels.
As far as hitting turns, it doesn't make a difference: I don't touch the gas on a turn. Now if you try a turn @ full throttle with FWD, you'll go flying off the road...try with RWD, and you'll go flying of the road just the same, but I find it easier to control a fishtail vs. a drift with the drive/steering wheels.
Of course AWD is ideal.
Originally Posted by SHIFT_NY
Similarly, AWD is a choice for middle ground, but you lose some power with 4 wheels gripping the ground - especially at at launch, so there is no absolute best. Like everything else in life there are compromises. FWD, AWD and RWD each have their own pros and cons and unless you live where winter roads don't exist it is hard to discount the merits of FWD.
You can lose grip wtih FWD/RWD at a launch too.
Originally Posted by SHIFT_NY
Not to speak for anyone, but how many people actually buy a sports sedan with performance as their #1 priority? I would think that many give significant consideration to roominess, comfort, safety, build quality, reliability, and cost-benefit (i.e. value) as well as performance. One can make a strong arguement that the Maxima fits this bill as well as any other car being sold today. Otherwise, we may as well all be driving Dodge Vipers.
06-09-2004, 10:46 AM
#58
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
shodog - wouldn't you be happier on the Porsche board? Afraid I gotta side with Mike_TX on this one.
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
I drove RWD cars for thirty-six years, and put over a million miles on those cars, and some of those were kinda wild miles. I have now driven FWD cars for nineteen years, and have put over 400,000 miles on FWD cars. For me, FWD has proven best in every way that matters.
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
But once you learn the nuances of FWD, it is possible to 'work' the pedal just under max power until the car is moving, then quickly increase power, using the much greater percentage of weight on the front wheels of a FWD car to avoid spinning as you enter maximum acceleration. I find powerful RWD cars under maximum acceleration tend to spin the wheels with every gear change, due to the lighter weight over the drive wheels.
Originally Posted by lightonthehill
And all that is not even taking into account the clearly superior performance of FWD over RWD in snow, slush, ice, mud, or any off-pavement situation.
Originally Posted by SHIFT_NY
As an ideal, sure RWD drive excels in performance - and fun, but let's go back to the poor weather applications for a second with a rhetorical question: Who's going to do better hitting the corners with fresh snow on the ground??? It is not practical in the real world to deem FWD superior by only looking at the performance benefit. I'm surprised to hear this coming from a midwesterner or anyone who drives in snow on a regular basis. It is well understood and accepted that FWD - by design - gives up some performance for handling in poor road conditions.
Originally Posted by SHIFT_NY
Not to speak for anyone, but how many people actually buy a sports sedan with performance as their #1 priority? I would think that many give significant consideration to roominess, comfort, safety, build quality, reliability, and cost-benefit (i.e. value) as well as performance. One can make a strong arguement that the Maxima fits this bill as well as any other car being sold today. Otherwise, we may as well all be driving Dodge Vipers.
In addition to my G35 I also have a Taurus SHO. I am all too familiar with high-powered FWD cars. I have done a lot of modifications to my SHO that made it a lot better handling car. But in the end it doesn’t handle nowhere near as balanced and smooth as my G35.
06-09-2004, 05:01 PM
#59
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by shodog
In your areas, how many days of the year is there actually enough snow on the ground to make it difficult to drive in.? Maybe 30? So your willing to compromise by buying a FWD car that is really only needed 1/12 of the time in a year?
Originally Posted by shodog
I would say that Performance is one of my top priorities. I am sure that performance is probably on everyone else’s list. Otherwise you would have bought a Camry instead.
As I've stated in other quotes, before my finances hit the proverbial fan, I was driving a 2000 TL and a 1971 Cuda 440 (pronounced "p-e-r-f-o-r-m-a-n-c-e" @ 400+ hp).
After parting ways with those 2 cars, I found my way into the Maxima by living with a Toyota Tacoma
for nearly 2 years until I got back on my feet. The Maxima IMO, is the best compromise of performance and practicality available.
06-09-2004, 05:46 PM
#60
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by CoolMax
As far bias goes, I'm not surprised to see Maxima owners biased to the layout their cars, especially after investing $30k+ and taking it to a personal level.
The car mag conspiracy, my favorite.
How did they develop this bias? Were they paid off? Or could it be the simple fact that RWD cars perform better, or the fact that in a FWD car that most of the front wheels.
So you're saying that FWD can do all that RWD can do except that it can't hit the corners the same way -- doesn't that still make RWD better?
Once every professional racer and every professional racing circuit starts using FWD, you'l have me convinced.
The car mag conspiracy, my favorite.
How did they develop this bias? Were they paid off? Or could it be the simple fact that RWD cars perform better, or the fact that in a FWD car that most of the front wheels.
So you're saying that FWD can do all that RWD can do except that it can't hit the corners the same way -- doesn't that still make RWD better?
Once every professional racer and every professional racing circuit starts using FWD, you'l have me convinced.
I don't recall using the term "conspiracy" about the car mags. What I'm referring to is their elitism and snobbishness. They like RWD cars because they can throw them around the skid pad and induce big ol' sideways smokin' turns at the test track and do One Lap of America in 18 hours.
When it comes down to the real world of driving, though, these guys don't spend their time doing smokey burnouts and going sideways in curves, or they'd be dead or in jail in a month. Sure, we all have fun driving, but the stuff they hoot about is mostly useful only at the track, since only the idiots drive at 9-10ths on public streets. And it takes 9-10ths driving to really define the difference between quality FWD and RWD cars these days.
These are the same guys who trashed the Acura TL solely because it's FWD, and they flipped off the Max for the same reason. And if the Lambo Murcielago was FWD, they'd probably trash it, too. They're a little too busy being he-men and car frat boys to suit me, and as a result, you don't always get the most objective and accurate stuff from them.
And, no, Im not saying FWD can do everything RWD can do except corner the same. And, no, that doesn't make RWD automaticaly better, either. Since FWD is better on slick surfaces, you might have to say it's better. But maybe the two things cancel each other out ... and they're equal.
Mike
06-09-2004, 06:25 PM
#61
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
CoolMax, I have to answer this. You need to know that in addition to "investing $30k+" in my Maxima, I've also invested $55k+ in my 2003 BMW 540i. And it's the 3rd 540i I've owned, right after the 740i that got me interested in Beemers several years ago. So, I'm not married to Maximas or to FWD, and I do know a thing or two about performance sedans and performance in general. And if I'm taking this to a "personal level", it must be because I'm convinced it's a good car ... even compared to the UDM (Ultimate Driving Machine).
I don't recall using the term "conspiracy" about the car mags. What I'm referring to is their elitism and snobbishness. They like RWD cars because they can throw them around the skid pad and induce big ol' sideways smokin' turns at the test track and do One Lap of America in 18 hours.
When it comes down to the real world of driving, though, these guys don't spend their time doing smokey burnouts and going sideways in curves, or they'd be dead or in jail in a month. Sure, we all have fun driving, but the stuff they hoot about is mostly useful only at the track, since only the idiots drive at 9-10ths on public streets. And it takes 9-10ths driving to really define the difference between quality FWD and RWD cars these days.
These are the same guys who trashed the Acura TL solely because it's FWD, and they flipped off the Max for the same reason. And if the Lambo Murcielago was FWD, they'd probably trash it, too. They're a little too busy being he-men and car frat boys to suit me, and as a result, you don't always get the most objective and accurate stuff from them.
And, no, Im not saying FWD can do everything RWD can do except corner the same. And, no, that doesn't make RWD automaticaly better, either. Since FWD is better on slick surfaces, you might have to say it's better. But maybe the two things cancel each other out ... and they're equal.
Mike
I don't recall using the term "conspiracy" about the car mags. What I'm referring to is their elitism and snobbishness. They like RWD cars because they can throw them around the skid pad and induce big ol' sideways smokin' turns at the test track and do One Lap of America in 18 hours.
When it comes down to the real world of driving, though, these guys don't spend their time doing smokey burnouts and going sideways in curves, or they'd be dead or in jail in a month. Sure, we all have fun driving, but the stuff they hoot about is mostly useful only at the track, since only the idiots drive at 9-10ths on public streets. And it takes 9-10ths driving to really define the difference between quality FWD and RWD cars these days.
These are the same guys who trashed the Acura TL solely because it's FWD, and they flipped off the Max for the same reason. And if the Lambo Murcielago was FWD, they'd probably trash it, too. They're a little too busy being he-men and car frat boys to suit me, and as a result, you don't always get the most objective and accurate stuff from them.
And, no, Im not saying FWD can do everything RWD can do except corner the same. And, no, that doesn't make RWD automaticaly better, either. Since FWD is better on slick surfaces, you might have to say it's better. But maybe the two things cancel each other out ... and they're equal.
Mike
Too funny...just too funny! And THIS IS COMING FROM A MAN WHO'S OWNED THE ULTIMATE IN RWD CARS--3 TIMES OVER!!!!!!! Open your mind, bro!
Hear ye, hear ye!!! Court is now adjourned! Or should I say...school! 
06-09-2004, 09:00 PM
#63
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by FNG
As much as I love my max, I have to say that you still won't get any better than a RWD, v8-powered, Noth American built car. That includes the Beamer crap.
06-10-2004, 04:45 AM
#65
Originally Posted by hofb99
Convinced yet, CoolMax???
Too funny...just too funny! And THIS IS COMING FROM A MAN WHO'S OWNED THE ULTIMATE IN RWD CARS--3 TIMES OVER!!!!!!! Open your mind, bro!
Hear ye, hear ye!!! Court is now adjourned! Or should I say...school!
Too funny...just too funny! And THIS IS COMING FROM A MAN WHO'S OWNED THE ULTIMATE IN RWD CARS--3 TIMES OVER!!!!!!! Open your mind, bro!
Hear ye, hear ye!!! Court is now adjourned! Or should I say...school! Maybe if I open my mind long enough I'll believe that the earth is flat too.
06-10-2004, 05:46 AM
#66
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
CoolMax, I have to answer this. You need to know that in addition to "investing $30k+" in my Maxima, I've also invested $55k+ in my 2003 BMW 540i. And it's the 3rd 540i I've owned, right after the 740i that got me interested in Beemers several years ago. So, I'm not married to Maximas or to FWD, and I do know a thing or two about performance sedans and performance in general. And if I'm taking this to a "personal level", it must be because I'm convinced it's a good car ... even compared to the UDM (Ultimate Driving Machine).
So what is it that got you interested in the UDM: the combination of power, handling, luxury that the mags rave about year after year? I'm not saying you bought the the BMW based on mag reviews, but don't you think they are on to something, something you found appealing too?
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
I don't recall using the term "conspiracy" about the car mags. What I'm referring to is their elitism and snobbishness. They like RWD cars because they can throw them around the skid pad and induce big ol' sideways smokin' turns at the test track and do One Lap of America in 18 hours.
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
When it comes down to the real world of driving, though, these guys don't spend their time doing smokey burnouts and going sideways in curves, or they'd be dead or in jail in a month. Sure, we all have fun driving, but the stuff they hoot about is mostly useful only at the track, since only the idiots drive at 9-10ths on public streets. And it takes 9-10ths driving to really define the difference between quality FWD and RWD cars these days.
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
These are the same guys who trashed the Acura TL solely because it's FWD, and they flipped off the Max for the same reason. And if the Lambo Murcielago was FWD, they'd probably trash it, too. They're a little too busy being he-men and car frat boys to suit me, and as a result, you don't always get the most objective and accurate stuff from them.
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
And, no, Im not saying FWD can do everything RWD can do except corner the same. And, no, that doesn't make RWD automaticaly better, either. Since FWD is better on slick surfaces, you might have to say it's better. But maybe the two things cancel each other out ... and they're equal.
Mike
Mike
I guess as far equality goes...there's only one way to compromise: AWD.
06-10-2004, 06:00 AM
#67
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by CoolMax
So if these cars are equal 9/10ths of the time, is RWD is better for that 1/10 when limits are pushed?
Originally Posted by CoolMax
There are only so many conditions you can throw in to find the advantages of FWD: exactly what do you mean by "slick? I'm sure that RWD will perform just the same or better when the roads are "slick." When it snows, FWD may have the advantage in acceleration, and even then you have the modulate the throttle, just as you would with RWD...it's not as if RWD is the only layout that needs traction control.
06-10-2004, 10:20 AM
#68
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 880
Originally Posted by CoolMax
(Snipped for brevity and out of compassion for those who try to endure this stuff.)
Mike
06-10-2004, 11:07 AM
#69
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
You're right. I'm wrong. You win. I give up. I take it all back. How could I have been so wrong? I'll never do it again. Don't tell Momma. (Feel better now?)
Mike
Mike
06-10-2004, 12:57 PM
#70
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by CoolMax
No thanks to your input - calm down and grow up - I prefer civilzed discussion/debate.
Maybe if I open my mind long enough I'll believe that the earth is flat too.
Maybe if I open my mind long enough I'll believe that the earth is flat too.
You're getting too personally wrapped up in all this and it's very obvious that this has gone way past the point of just a debate w/ you. Maybe you should just step away from the computer for a couple of days and come back w/ a fresh perspective... 
06-10-2004, 10:07 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 535
Well considering the Maxima is now built off the Altima platform and the Altima didn't win any comparisons and was disliked for driving bigger than what it was and it's dreaded torque steer, the Maxima has more mass and more power, thus making matters worse. The Max does have a nicer interior.
There is an editorial in the new Car and Driver (with the Lotus on the cover) where it it argues "High horsepower is going to kill FWD cars". It is true.
The Maxima has gained more horsepower but also more mass and weight. The 04 Max handles no better and is no faster than a manaul 4th gen SE Max.
The Maxima is a good car but no longer a sports sedan. Nissan insists on continuing to market it that way though. Quad pipes and other superficial things are mentioned in the ads.
http://www.infinitinews.com/corporat...02110916.shtml
Sales are down too.
Infiniti has it's brand going for it and is based on the sports car 350Z. It's the real deal. They should make the Maxima on this platform. Not a step back on the Altima one.
There is an editorial in the new Car and Driver (with the Lotus on the cover) where it it argues "High horsepower is going to kill FWD cars". It is true.
The Maxima has gained more horsepower but also more mass and weight. The 04 Max handles no better and is no faster than a manaul 4th gen SE Max.
The Maxima is a good car but no longer a sports sedan. Nissan insists on continuing to market it that way though. Quad pipes and other superficial things are mentioned in the ads.
http://www.infinitinews.com/corporat...02110916.shtml
Sales are down too.
Infiniti has it's brand going for it and is based on the sports car 350Z. It's the real deal. They should make the Maxima on this platform. Not a step back on the Altima one.
06-11-2004, 12:30 PM
#72
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 107
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
Well considering the Maxima is now built off the Altima platform and the Altima didn't win any comparisons and was disliked for driving bigger than what it was and it's dreaded torque steer, the Maxima has more mass and more power, thus making matters worse. The Max does have a nicer interior.
There is an editorial in the new Car and Driver (with the Lotus on the cover) where it it argues "High horsepower is going to kill FWD cars". It is true.
The Maxima has gained more horsepower but also more mass and weight. The 04 Max handles no better and is no faster than a manaul 4th gen SE Max.
The Maxima is a good car but no longer a sports sedan. Nissan insists on continuing to market it that way though. Quad pipes and other superficial things are mentioned in the ads.
http://www.infinitinews.com/corporat...02110916.shtml
Sales are down too.
Infiniti has it's brand going for it and is based on the sports car 350Z. It's the real deal. They should make the Maxima on this platform. Not a step back on the Altima one.
There is an editorial in the new Car and Driver (with the Lotus on the cover) where it it argues "High horsepower is going to kill FWD cars". It is true.
The Maxima has gained more horsepower but also more mass and weight. The 04 Max handles no better and is no faster than a manaul 4th gen SE Max.
The Maxima is a good car but no longer a sports sedan. Nissan insists on continuing to market it that way though. Quad pipes and other superficial things are mentioned in the ads.
http://www.infinitinews.com/corporat...02110916.shtml
Sales are down too.
Infiniti has it's brand going for it and is based on the sports car 350Z. It's the real deal. They should make the Maxima on this platform. Not a step back on the Altima one.
It seems as though we've all heard this before.
06-11-2004, 01:08 PM
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
1SICKLEX - Where have you been this past year or so?
Many mags and many drivers who have tested both pick the '04 Maxima over the '04 Infiniti G35. Of course, others feel differently. But this horse was beaten to death a year ago, and the last remnants were carried off by the buzzards some time back.
The consensus of most Maxima drivers is that the benefits of FWD outweigh the shortcomings. The insistent bleatings of the RWD aficionados can never change that.
The fact this thread was absconded by RWD relics (yet again) reminds me of that old MacBeth saying; how did that go? Something like 'me doth think they protesteth too much'. Or something like that.
As to the 'sales are down, too' remark; again, where have you been hiding? Nissan was very clear in announcing they were moving the Maxima upscale, leaving the Altima as the 'mass market high volume sedan, and planned on building only around 80,000 '04 Maximas.
But people weren't listening, and many moved upscale with the Maxima. As a result, there have been over 120,000 '04 Maximas built, with no end in sight. Only uninformed folk could say 'sales are down' about the '04 Maxima with a straight face.
Many mags and many drivers who have tested both pick the '04 Maxima over the '04 Infiniti G35. Of course, others feel differently. But this horse was beaten to death a year ago, and the last remnants were carried off by the buzzards some time back.
The consensus of most Maxima drivers is that the benefits of FWD outweigh the shortcomings. The insistent bleatings of the RWD aficionados can never change that.
The fact this thread was absconded by RWD relics (yet again) reminds me of that old MacBeth saying; how did that go? Something like 'me doth think they protesteth too much'. Or something like that.
As to the 'sales are down, too' remark; again, where have you been hiding? Nissan was very clear in announcing they were moving the Maxima upscale, leaving the Altima as the 'mass market high volume sedan, and planned on building only around 80,000 '04 Maximas.
But people weren't listening, and many moved upscale with the Maxima. As a result, there have been over 120,000 '04 Maximas built, with no end in sight. Only uninformed folk could say 'sales are down' about the '04 Maxima with a straight face.
06-11-2004, 09:47 PM
#74
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 72
What?!
Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
The 04 Max handles no better and is no faster than a manaul 4th gen SE Max.
Thanks...
06-12-2004, 09:51 AM
#75
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 535
10Best of 1990 — Nissan Maxima SE
10Best of 1995 — Nissan Maxima SE
10Best of 1996 — Nissan Maxima SE
5th gen
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
As a footnote, we reflect on our reaction to the original Maxima (C/D, April 1981), which debuted as an upscale version of the 810 sedan: "What we have here seems to be a clear case of over-Americanization." The more things change...
Useful refinements, but not the sort of thing to win hearts here. The last time a Maxima won a C/D comparison test was in August 1992. In three comparos following installation of the beam axle (May 1995, November 1995, June 1998), its best finish was second. Like a middle-aged athlete, the Maxima was getting soft.
6.0 seconds to 60, 15.7 to 100, and 14.7 seconds at 97 mph over the quarter-mile, a sharp contrast to the last manual Maxima we tested in June 1999: 0 to 60 in 7.0, 19.5 to 100, and 15.6 seconds at 91 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ima/index.html
Currently 0-60 mph, sec 6.4 (est)
6th genhttp://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=4510&page_numb er=1
requiring 6.4 seconds to achieve 60 mph (instead of 6.0) and 15 seconds flat to cover the quarter-mile. The last Maxima took only 14.7 seconds to do the same job.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1
It turned in excellent acceleration numbers — 0-60 mph in just 6.5 seconds (although its sibling, the G35, ran it in 6.2 with an automatic), the quarter mile in 15.0 at 95.4 mph and produced stopping distances from 80 and 60 mph of 233 and 134 ft., respectively
Numbers are fine, but how does she drive? For a family sedan, quite nicely; for a sports sedan, only adequate; and for the 4-door sports car reincarnate — we were left a bit disappointed. Perhaps Managing Editor Ellida Maki summed it up best when, after a stint in our Radiant Ember-colored photo car, she said, "Torque steer, thy name is Maxima."
If Nissan could sharpen up the handling and get rid of some of that torque steer, they might be able to reclaim the "4-door sports car" badge.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a4/index3.html
the SE can flash from zero to 60 mph in just 6.3 seconds
Though it shares its basic platform with the Altima, the Maxima SE feels like an altogether more refined and substantial car.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...ima/index.html
Current Maxima owners will love it, but the Mazda 6 is a cheaper way of combining sport and family sedan.
10Best of 1995 — Nissan Maxima SE
10Best of 1996 — Nissan Maxima SE
5th gen
http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1
As a footnote, we reflect on our reaction to the original Maxima (C/D, April 1981), which debuted as an upscale version of the 810 sedan: "What we have here seems to be a clear case of over-Americanization." The more things change...
Useful refinements, but not the sort of thing to win hearts here. The last time a Maxima won a C/D comparison test was in August 1992. In three comparos following installation of the beam axle (May 1995, November 1995, June 1998), its best finish was second. Like a middle-aged athlete, the Maxima was getting soft.
6.0 seconds to 60, 15.7 to 100, and 14.7 seconds at 97 mph over the quarter-mile, a sharp contrast to the last manual Maxima we tested in June 1999: 0 to 60 in 7.0, 19.5 to 100, and 15.6 seconds at 91 mph
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...ima/index.html
Currently 0-60 mph, sec 6.4 (est)
6th genhttp://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=4510&page_numb er=1
requiring 6.4 seconds to achieve 60 mph (instead of 6.0) and 15 seconds flat to cover the quarter-mile. The last Maxima took only 14.7 seconds to do the same job.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....&page_number=1
It turned in excellent acceleration numbers — 0-60 mph in just 6.5 seconds (although its sibling, the G35, ran it in 6.2 with an automatic), the quarter mile in 15.0 at 95.4 mph and produced stopping distances from 80 and 60 mph of 233 and 134 ft., respectively
Numbers are fine, but how does she drive? For a family sedan, quite nicely; for a sports sedan, only adequate; and for the 4-door sports car reincarnate — we were left a bit disappointed. Perhaps Managing Editor Ellida Maki summed it up best when, after a stint in our Radiant Ember-colored photo car, she said, "Torque steer, thy name is Maxima."
If Nissan could sharpen up the handling and get rid of some of that torque steer, they might be able to reclaim the "4-door sports car" badge.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...a4/index3.html
the SE can flash from zero to 60 mph in just 6.3 seconds
Though it shares its basic platform with the Altima, the Maxima SE feels like an altogether more refined and substantial car.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...ima/index.html
Current Maxima owners will love it, but the Mazda 6 is a cheaper way of combining sport and family sedan.
06-12-2004, 10:02 AM
#76
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 535
http://money.cnn.com/2003/11/12/pf/a...ting/index.htm
2004's most disappointing rides
Sorry, but there's no room on Nissan Island, and it's clear which model can't pull its weight. The Maxima finds itself surrounded and set adrift by its own tribe. Can it float for long
http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/22/pf/a...xima/index.htm
Nissan's new Maxima: Why bother?
Despite a radical redesign, Nissan's near-luxury model just doesn't cut it.
http://www.forbes.com/2003/11/24/cx_mf_1124test.html
Nissan is having a great year. Too bad the same can't be said for sales of its upscale sedan, the Nissan Maxima.
However, several car magazines have damned the Maxima for being--get this--too powerful. OK, OK, writers for these publications, including yours truly, have never driven a car that was too powerful. But what has bothered other reviewers is that the front-wheel-drive Maxima gets its 265 hp delivered to its front wheels, and these have a tendency to spin on takeoff or when laying into the gas in a bend (called torque steer because of the way the front wheels fight the ability of the driver to steer).
2004's most disappointing rides
Sorry, but there's no room on Nissan Island, and it's clear which model can't pull its weight. The Maxima finds itself surrounded and set adrift by its own tribe. Can it float for long
http://money.cnn.com/2003/04/22/pf/a...xima/index.htm
Nissan's new Maxima: Why bother?
Despite a radical redesign, Nissan's near-luxury model just doesn't cut it.
http://www.forbes.com/2003/11/24/cx_mf_1124test.html
Nissan is having a great year. Too bad the same can't be said for sales of its upscale sedan, the Nissan Maxima.
However, several car magazines have damned the Maxima for being--get this--too powerful. OK, OK, writers for these publications, including yours truly, have never driven a car that was too powerful. But what has bothered other reviewers is that the front-wheel-drive Maxima gets its 265 hp delivered to its front wheels, and these have a tendency to spin on takeoff or when laying into the gas in a bend (called torque steer because of the way the front wheels fight the ability of the driver to steer).
06-12-2004, 11:36 AM
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: a meadow south of Atlanta
Posts: 8,143
1SICKLEX - If, after 15 months with hundreds of comments/reviews from hundreds of sources, those are the worst you can find, then I have sorely underestimated the '04 Maxima.
Torque steer is vastly overstated. This is an inherent trait in powerful FWD cars, and one which competent drivers expect and automaticaly adjust for. Actually, I have noticed very little torque steer in the three SLs I have driven.
Those reviews spewing angst over the '4 door sports car' thing are, like you, behind the times. Nissan no longer markets the Maxima as a '4 door sports car'. It is now too large, too roomy, and too 'near-luxury' oriented to be considered a 'sports car'.
Same thing for the 'sales are down' spiel. As I stated in my previous post, Nissan made it VERY clear they were moving the Maxima UPSCALE, leaving the mass market to the Altima, and expecting a more restricted audience (around 80,000) for the Maxima. They end up making over 120,000. Some sales bust!
You might need to consider that the sources you are quoting are, for the most part, totally uninformed as to Nissan's complete change in plans and target audience for the Maxima. While their ignorance is understandable, I am disappointed that a Nissan aficianado such as yourself has not kept abreast of this major change in the Maxima playing field.
Torque steer is vastly overstated. This is an inherent trait in powerful FWD cars, and one which competent drivers expect and automaticaly adjust for. Actually, I have noticed very little torque steer in the three SLs I have driven.
Those reviews spewing angst over the '4 door sports car' thing are, like you, behind the times. Nissan no longer markets the Maxima as a '4 door sports car'. It is now too large, too roomy, and too 'near-luxury' oriented to be considered a 'sports car'.
Same thing for the 'sales are down' spiel. As I stated in my previous post, Nissan made it VERY clear they were moving the Maxima UPSCALE, leaving the mass market to the Altima, and expecting a more restricted audience (around 80,000) for the Maxima. They end up making over 120,000. Some sales bust!
You might need to consider that the sources you are quoting are, for the most part, totally uninformed as to Nissan's complete change in plans and target audience for the Maxima. While their ignorance is understandable, I am disappointed that a Nissan aficianado such as yourself has not kept abreast of this major change in the Maxima playing field.
06-12-2004, 01:46 PM
#78
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 880
*sigh* If I relied on some magazine writer (most of whom are like high school boys on steroids and extra testosterone) for all my buying recommendations, I'd probably be trying to make the payments on either a C5 Vette or something with the name "Porsche" on the side or maybe a 12-cylinder Bentley Continental.
And you should know that the Ten Best award seldom goes to the same car model twice, unless it's totally redone. One of the prime criteria for Ten Best is that it be new or significanly reworked from the previous model.
That being said, Car & Driver admits they'll award it to a new model car over an existing "winner", just because it's new ... and not necessarily better. In other words, they reward newness.
So, don't be fooled into thinking Ten Best means it's the best that's out there ... it's just the best of the new stuff out there.
Mike
And you should know that the Ten Best award seldom goes to the same car model twice, unless it's totally redone. One of the prime criteria for Ten Best is that it be new or significanly reworked from the previous model.
That being said, Car & Driver admits they'll award it to a new model car over an existing "winner", just because it's new ... and not necessarily better. In other words, they reward newness.
So, don't be fooled into thinking Ten Best means it's the best that's out there ... it's just the best of the new stuff out there.
Mike
06-13-2004, 02:58 PM
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 112
Car mags really are lost on the Maxima. What other car beats the Maxima in the combo of:
1.) Euro chic style
2.) American car levels of size and equipment for the money
3.) Japanese quality
The Maxima is cross-shopped by:
1.) Grand Prix GTP prospects for its stoplight drag prowess at least among sedans of its price class.
2.) Accord and Camry buyers for its all around goodness.
3.) Avalon buyers thanks to its very roomy interior, especially the back seat, which got Consumer's Reports best ranking.
4.) Audi A4 and Acura TL buyers thanks to its techno style edge and solid performance
Since 1993 to present, I see Maxima ahead of reliability scores against Accord and Camry than the other way around. Even though Camry is ahead this year, CR mentions the Regal, Camry, and Maxima are their top ranked family sedans in reliability.
What other sedan in Maxima's price class offers a 6-speed manual, 5-speed automatic, or 4-speed automatic all in one line? Maxima does.
What other non-Nissan car has the most celebrated engine by Wards Automotive?
1.) Euro chic style
2.) American car levels of size and equipment for the money
3.) Japanese quality
The Maxima is cross-shopped by:
1.) Grand Prix GTP prospects for its stoplight drag prowess at least among sedans of its price class.
2.) Accord and Camry buyers for its all around goodness.
3.) Avalon buyers thanks to its very roomy interior, especially the back seat, which got Consumer's Reports best ranking.
4.) Audi A4 and Acura TL buyers thanks to its techno style edge and solid performance
Since 1993 to present, I see Maxima ahead of reliability scores against Accord and Camry than the other way around. Even though Camry is ahead this year, CR mentions the Regal, Camry, and Maxima are their top ranked family sedans in reliability.
What other sedan in Maxima's price class offers a 6-speed manual, 5-speed automatic, or 4-speed automatic all in one line? Maxima does.
What other non-Nissan car has the most celebrated engine by Wards Automotive?