Chermax Phase 2 begins...
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 480
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
With 10.1 compression your starting off with having to retard the timing so your in the hole. Cylinder pressures will be higher at 4psi compared to a 8.1 turbo engine. That will severly limit our potential since you will not be able to run higher timing. To combat detionation you will need to raise the octain or be forced to run a detuned engine. Like I said alky injection will give you full potienial with complete adjustablity. I don't know the head gasket arrangement with the 3.5 n/a. When a turbo motor is designed they allow the head gasket to blow as a final safety valve. If cylinder pressure exceed a point with detonation and the gasket doesn't blow then you will be a member of the drive over the crank club. All it takes is to run lean for a few seconds. Seen some nasty cases of that. Remember you are re-engineering a n/a engine to turbo. They are not exactly the same for a reason...
Not saying it can't be done, just offering a word of caution since I have dealt with turbos and detonation.
Not saying it can't be done, just offering a word of caution since I have dealt with turbos and detonation.
Link: http://www.speedforceracing.com/prod...aximaturbo.php
aka The Doom Ship
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,788
From: DFW, TX
With 10.1 compression your starting off with having to retard the timing so your in the hole. Cylinder pressures will be higher at 4psi compared to a 8.1 turbo engine. That will severly limit our potential since you will not be able to run higher timing. To combat detionation you will need to raise the octain or be forced to run a detuned engine. Like I said alky injection will give you full potienial with complete adjustablity. I don't know the head gasket arrangement with the 3.5 n/a. When a turbo motor is designed they allow the head gasket to blow as a final safety valve. If cylinder pressure exceed a point with detonation and the gasket doesn't blow then you will be a member of the drive over the crank club. All it takes is to run lean for a few seconds. Seen some nasty cases of that. Remember you are re-engineering a n/a engine to turbo. They are not exactly the same for a reason...
Not saying it can't be done, just offering a word of caution since I have dealt with turbos and detonation.
Not saying it can't be done, just offering a word of caution since I have dealt with turbos and detonation.
2.) Playing w/ HG thickness = playing w/ cam timing.
3.) There have been a few people on here with hybrid swaps (VQ35DE) that are boosted. (A32 boosted). They're doing fine with moderate levels of boost (13PSI)
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=540112
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=375895
4.) Octane > Octain.
Originally Posted by chernmax
I'm not inventing this turbo setup from scratch,
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=537555
Last edited by NmexMAX; Nov 1, 2007 at 11:24 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 344
From: Nashua, NH
My system uses the coolant overflow tank and it holds about a gallon of meth. This is a progressive system that activates off the 3 bar MAT sensor. At about 5psi it starts to spray and it's full on by 14psi. The volume is adjustable as it the gain. So if you need more spray as you go past 14 you just crank it up. If you the spray to ramp up faster you adjust the gain. The the heavy hitters (10 seconds and faster) step up to a dual nozzle set up. They are spraying alot of methonal. So if I stay out of boost just driving around it doesn't use any, if I stay in the 10psi range about an ounce for each time it gets to 10 so it can last quite a while. A full throttle 26psi blast will use significantly more. 4 or 5 passes at the track will use about half the tank. The designer of the kit put in a low fuel switch that lets you know to fill it up so you don't run dry.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
OK here are some pictures to get an idea of what the underside piping will look like once complete.
This is where they welded the turbo oil return to the forward part of the oil pan.
This is a picture of the back side of the oil pan where a T-coupling will be installed that will port oil to the turbo, you can see the braided line run to the left which will be connected.
Last, this is a top view of the Turbo temporarily mounted for the Blow off valve fitting before heat wrap.
This is where they welded the turbo oil return to the forward part of the oil pan.
This is a picture of the back side of the oil pan where a T-coupling will be installed that will port oil to the turbo, you can see the braided line run to the left which will be connected.
Last, this is a top view of the Turbo temporarily mounted for the Blow off valve fitting before heat wrap.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
My system uses the coolant overflow tank and it holds about a gallon of meth. This is a progressive system that activates off the 3 bar MAT sensor. At about 5psi it starts to spray and it's full on by 14psi. The volume is adjustable as it the gain. So if you need more spray as you go past 14 you just crank it up. If you the spray to ramp up faster you adjust the gain. The the heavy hitters (10 seconds and faster) step up to a dual nozzle set up. They are spraying alot of methonal. So if I stay out of boost just driving around it doesn't use any, if I stay in the 10psi range about an ounce for each time it gets to 10 so it can last quite a while. A full throttle 26psi blast will use significantly more. 4 or 5 passes at the track will use about half the tank. The designer of the kit put in a low fuel switch that lets you know to fill it up so you don't run dry.
Do me a favor, if you want to explain your turbo setup, start another thread, I'm trying to post the progress on the first 6th gen install with lessons learned. My plans are laid out already and I'm sticking to this project with the design layout that has been successfully installed and tested by Speed Force Racing, any info after the fact has no added value. Appreciate your support on my request...
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 123
From: Orange County/San Diego
chern, I have two things to say: 1. Where do you get all the $$? and 2. Thank you for loving your car so much so things will be easier for the rest of us when mod-time comes around. Best of luck with this project dude.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 344
From: Nashua, NH
NMex,
1) a slip of the finger, it should have been 10.3 but a 1 got in there, point of the issue is factory designed turbo engines have 7-8 to 1 compression ratio and starting at over 10 to 1 CR is not the best way to go since the cylinder pressures will be way too high.
2)Although I never mentioned thickness of the head gaskets, I mentioned the design which would include head bolts, material of gaskets, how they are applied and on a turbo specific engine even headbolt placement. Thicker head gaskets can be used to lower cr but they would have to be too thick with 10.3 cr to drop it to a safe starting point. A dished piston design is the way to do it which is the way factory turbo pistons are made. With starting at a low cr timing can be controlled easier. Incremental changes can be made without suddenly going wild with knock.
3) A factory engine is set to a blueprint after being tested over and over. Thousands if not millions of dollars are spent on r&d. The key is consistancy for reliablity. So now you take what engineers have taken in some cases years to develop, mix and match it with a combination of parts that may or may not be of the level of quality and design that a high performance turbocharged engine needs and you install it on a car. You get it to run (how long is guess) and you call yourself successful. Now someone else takes that combo and changes a few parts, maybe the tune and blows it up in 1 hour. No 2 cars are the same. Even with the exact same parts and tune one car will do better than the other. So you can take a n/a engine and turbocharge it yourself or follow someone else's design but that doesn't mean it will last or make the advertised hp. Extreme care with the tune is paramount. Diligents with calulating fuel delivery and octane (hey what do you know I spelled it wright) is one of the most important keys to preventing detonation. Timing is the next issue. Too much, you put holes in the pistons, too low and you leave hp on the table, maybe to a point that you could make the same power without even having boost. I didn't say it could not be done on a Maxima, in fact I think it's pretty cool. I am aware of the turbo heritage with Nissan and the refitting n/a Nissans to sc or turbos. I am not a Nissan engine guru especially with an asperated one. That does not make my concerns invalid. I posted my cautions and suggestions because of my experiences with my Turbo T (11 second car) and the experiences and knowedge of my Buick friends. Several of them have 10 second or less turbo Buicks. One has been at it since 1987. They all learned how to modify and tune these brutes. Thousands of dollars and busted engines later they know lots of tricks to make it all work. Some share knowlege others give you bits and pieces to let you figure it out for yourself others have gone into business and charge you. This will be the same for the boosted 6th gen Maxima.
The biggest killer of a turbo engine is detonation (it happens so fast you have very little time to react). I have both fear and respect for it. I believe it's needed very much in this endevor which has been my point from the begining of this thread.
1) a slip of the finger, it should have been 10.3 but a 1 got in there, point of the issue is factory designed turbo engines have 7-8 to 1 compression ratio and starting at over 10 to 1 CR is not the best way to go since the cylinder pressures will be way too high.
2)Although I never mentioned thickness of the head gaskets, I mentioned the design which would include head bolts, material of gaskets, how they are applied and on a turbo specific engine even headbolt placement. Thicker head gaskets can be used to lower cr but they would have to be too thick with 10.3 cr to drop it to a safe starting point. A dished piston design is the way to do it which is the way factory turbo pistons are made. With starting at a low cr timing can be controlled easier. Incremental changes can be made without suddenly going wild with knock.
3) A factory engine is set to a blueprint after being tested over and over. Thousands if not millions of dollars are spent on r&d. The key is consistancy for reliablity. So now you take what engineers have taken in some cases years to develop, mix and match it with a combination of parts that may or may not be of the level of quality and design that a high performance turbocharged engine needs and you install it on a car. You get it to run (how long is guess) and you call yourself successful. Now someone else takes that combo and changes a few parts, maybe the tune and blows it up in 1 hour. No 2 cars are the same. Even with the exact same parts and tune one car will do better than the other. So you can take a n/a engine and turbocharge it yourself or follow someone else's design but that doesn't mean it will last or make the advertised hp. Extreme care with the tune is paramount. Diligents with calulating fuel delivery and octane (hey what do you know I spelled it wright) is one of the most important keys to preventing detonation. Timing is the next issue. Too much, you put holes in the pistons, too low and you leave hp on the table, maybe to a point that you could make the same power without even having boost. I didn't say it could not be done on a Maxima, in fact I think it's pretty cool. I am aware of the turbo heritage with Nissan and the refitting n/a Nissans to sc or turbos. I am not a Nissan engine guru especially with an asperated one. That does not make my concerns invalid. I posted my cautions and suggestions because of my experiences with my Turbo T (11 second car) and the experiences and knowedge of my Buick friends. Several of them have 10 second or less turbo Buicks. One has been at it since 1987. They all learned how to modify and tune these brutes. Thousands of dollars and busted engines later they know lots of tricks to make it all work. Some share knowlege others give you bits and pieces to let you figure it out for yourself others have gone into business and charge you. This will be the same for the boosted 6th gen Maxima.
The biggest killer of a turbo engine is detonation (it happens so fast you have very little time to react). I have both fear and respect for it. I believe it's needed very much in this endevor which has been my point from the begining of this thread.
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 366
Wow chern. The last time i posted on this forum before my accident was when you first tried the Altima Headers..Like 2 years ago? ROFL
AND NOW LOOK AT YOURSELF>
All i can say is WOWWWWWWWW.
Madd props.
BTW do you know what your Maxima will be running in 1/4 aprox after the turbo and whats your time as of now?
Thanks man and GOOD LUCK. Go burn TTg35 's now and Good game. =)
AND NOW LOOK AT YOURSELF>
All i can say is WOWWWWWWWW.
Madd props.
BTW do you know what your Maxima will be running in 1/4 aprox after the turbo and whats your time as of now?
Thanks man and GOOD LUCK. Go burn TTg35 's now and Good game. =)
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
Don't get me wrong, I PMed him with a respectful reply that this is not a thread to discuss his setup, what to do, what should I do, etc. This thread was started to show the progress, how too and lessons learned of the first 6th Gen Maxima install with a setup that has been planned for over a year with many Turbo experts. I'm at the install stage, I needed ideas 12-15 months ago and at the request of many members of the Org, I'm posting details with pictures of the install. I'd really like to keep it at that. He is more than welcome to start his own discussion thread with other members on his turbo ideas but at my stage, shouda, coulda, woulda, don't do anything right now for me thus, not important in this thread!!!
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
Wow chern. The last time i posted on this forum before my accident was when you first tried the Altima Headers..Like 2 years ago? ROFL
AND NOW LOOK AT YOURSELF>
All i can say is WOWWWWWWWW.
Madd props.
BTW do you know what your Maxima will be running in 1/4 aprox after the turbo and whats your time as of now?
Thanks man and GOOD LUCK. Go burn TTg35 's now and Good game. =)
AND NOW LOOK AT YOURSELF>
All i can say is WOWWWWWWWW.
Madd props.
BTW do you know what your Maxima will be running in 1/4 aprox after the turbo and whats your time as of now?
Thanks man and GOOD LUCK. Go burn TTg35 's now and Good game. =)
Man someday cherm I wanna come see this car in person, and maybe by then i'll have my supercharge setup and we can pit the 3.0 and 3.5 against each other for fun.
But wow man what a really nice looking setup.
I don't understand why everyone keeps coming in here and telling you how to do this turbo setup and who really cares the thing that matters is your setup is going to work, and there are so many different combinations to do this setup, some people really just need to learn that. The fact that you are doing such a setup is a great accomplishment on its own
But wow man what a really nice looking setup.
I don't understand why everyone keeps coming in here and telling you how to do this turbo setup and who really cares the thing that matters is your setup is going to work, and there are so many different combinations to do this setup, some people really just need to learn that. The fact that you are doing such a setup is a great accomplishment on its own
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
Man someday cherm I wanna come see this car in person, and maybe by then i'll have my supercharge setup and we can pit the 3.0 and 3.5 against each other for fun.
But wow man what a really nice looking setup.
I don't understand why everyone keeps coming in here and telling you how to do this turbo setup and who really cares the thing that matters is your setup is going to work, and there are so many different combinations to do this setup, some people really just need to learn that. The fact that you are doing such a setup is a great accomplishment on its own
But wow man what a really nice looking setup.
I don't understand why everyone keeps coming in here and telling you how to do this turbo setup and who really cares the thing that matters is your setup is going to work, and there are so many different combinations to do this setup, some people really just need to learn that. The fact that you are doing such a setup is a great accomplishment on its own
to everyone! 
Im back from Vegas and what is the first thing I do after unpacking? Checking this thread for progress. Nice steady progress Chris!!! Was hoping for completion, but I know how those things go. Any revised ETA for completion?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
The rest of the parts should arrive today and I shaved an inch off the RLM bumper and some of the back areas to ensure a proper fit because of the intercooler...
I'm actually happy about the bottom 1" shave...
I was runing 13.9 to 14.2 depending on the heat/humidity index. My goal is low 12's but I still have much to do including taking the car to NJ to Level 10 transmission for a bulletproof tranny rebuild that will support 500-600 whp. The current Stage 2 setup I'm working with is estimated at 375+whp, my goal is to make the 400whp club...
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
you should see high 11's if properly tuned. level10 does excellent work, i have the 700hp set up he said even if you never see it, the tranny will work much better. i have run the transmission in the ground for the pst 5yrs and it's still flawless, let me know when your ready i can help you out.
Man I bet you can't wait to get your hands on the wheel again and drive it...the anticipation would kill me. Just becareful now, don't want to get pulled over in the first few miles you drive it now do we. lol
Will there be dyno videos?
Will there be dyno videos?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
Chris...this car is coming along great...I always knew you DC are folks were crazy....but this is good work my friend...the car looks sweet and I'm sure its going to ride better...
Question: how will this setup affect your emissions?
Question: how will this setup affect your emissions?
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
Update: Last night I shaved an inch off the bottom of my RLM bumper and reinforced the lower backside with a strip of all weather stainless steel and attached it with industrial strength liquid nails. I also received the Turbonetics heatsheild and according to the tracking numbers, my electronic boost gauge and wide ban monitor should be on my doorstep when I get home tonight...
Last edited by chernmax; Nov 2, 2007 at 06:28 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 10,197
From: Displaced New Yorker in Southern, MD
Glad to hear you are getting the tranny beefed up, see if they can build an LSD as well... That kinda power and open diff = 
My car is almost done and will be back in the DC area in about 6 weeks FTW....
My car is almost done and will be back in the DC area in about 6 weeks FTW....