Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Okay so there was a Group Buy for O2 Dual output Simulators. They sold pretty quickly and I saw lots of 6th buying them up. But it stopped there.

I have a few questions
1. Did anyone install there simulators yet?

2. What were your codes before install?

3. Did it fix the problem?

4. Do we have a write up yet?

5. Did we determine that one is truly enough to do the job?

I'll answer them for me:
Did anyone install there simulators yet? Nope, sitting on counter at home.
What were your codes before install?
P1273
P1168 Closed Loop Control (Bank 2)
P1051
P1284
Did it fix the problem? n/a
Do we have a write up yet? n/a
Did we determine that one is truly enough to do the job? n/a

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

One should be enough... Right now I'm running with P1283 and P0138 with one of the dual channel sims installed.

I just got a new primary o2 sensor delivered today (BOSCH) and I'll install it tomorrow and reset the ECU.

I'm leaning towards the sensor being the problem instead of a vacuum leak.

I'll have to do more digging concerning the P0138. But according to o2simulator.com, the dual channels should work for Maximas up to the year 2004.

RacerX1320

iTrader: (3)

What exactly makes then dual output? Can they put out 2 different voltage readings? I currently have an 02 Sim installed but its the old versions and yes it did eliminate the cel i had.

* Forget the code, was after y pipe pre-cat delete.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Dual output intercepts the signal for both secondary sensors. 2 signal wires (for each sensor) plus one heater, and one ground (only one each needed for just one sensor).

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

I'm going to be getting mine installed tomorrow. Is it best to ground it to the chassis? I currently have a P1283 and P1274 code. Hope it works. I'll let you guys know.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Those codes are from the front, primary o2 sensors. You don't want to sim them.

Check your primary sensors... take them out and see what they look like. I finally replaced my one primary in the front by the radiator (Cattman headers)... it was COVERED in carbon and was giving me the P1283. I put a new one in, and the code is gone.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Your right, we have to differentiate where the codes are coming from, the front sensors or those moved/re-installed behind the catalytic converter in the Y-pipe.





Primarys go in here

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Nice! Eh... looks like I gotta replace my primary on the EGR manifold as well. lol

P1274.

Apollos, your two secondaries behind the cat are working ok?

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

So both codes that I have the P1283 and P1274 are both primary codes? Dang! I'm sitting here with two useless O2 sims then.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Well, thats what I'm trying to sort out . The too lean, too rich codes may be false because the car is looking for stock measurements. After a dyno tune and getting the air/fuel ratio corrected we may be able to ignore those. The bad sensor codes etc may be accurate. Those primary sensors aren't cheap.

I also can't seem to find what the codes mean in my list of codes.
I could only find this one: P1168 - Closed Loop Control (Bank 2)

I still need to find out which sensors throw which codes. I think anything behind the cat we can 02 sim out.

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

Found out both are my codes are primary, so I can't use them. The tech told me that both of my primary sensors are detecting too much air in the system. The pre-cats helped restrict the amount of air that came in contact with the sensors. With those gone, you have the sensors in direct contact with the rush of air that they are now exposed to. He has an idea. Using an o2 sensor adaptor can push the sensor back about an inch or so. This will allow them to detect less air thus theoretically not setting off the CEL. Only thing is the only place they could get the adaptors locally is closed today. I'll have to try back next Friday. I could see this working.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Okay that makes sense, I was wondering about that. I just couldn't find a pic of the stock headers to see where the AFR (primary sensors) plugged in. Maybe someone could toss in a pic of the stock manifolds.

It also makes sense because more that one of us is getting that same primary sensor failed code. I dont think it will be a good thing if we have to keep replacing them. BUT, how critical are they to system? I am guessing they are fairly important to how the car runs. If you remember my tech put in some 350z sensors in my car and the power just wasn't there.

The post cat O2 sensors on the other hand, I don't think they are very critical, hence the 02 simulators.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

The primaries control air/fuel mixture... either running too lean or too rich isn't all that good for the engine.

Some spacers/non-foulers just may work.

The thing is, the P1283 code is a lean code... that's what I was getting before I replaced the front primary by the radiator. Now, I'm getting a rich code (P1274) for the sensor on the rear manifold by the firewall.

The Z guys are having the same issues actually...

http://my350z.com/forum/forced-induc...1283-p302.html

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

P1283 Lean code from front AFR sensor bank2
P1284 Rich code (bank2?)

P1274 Rich from rear AFR sensor (1?)
P1273 Lean AFR sensor1

I am also thinking ^^^^
Bank1 is near the firewall & Bank2 is near the radiator.

Question, I believe those sensors plug into the stock manifolds AFTER the pre-cats. Is that correct?

I'm going to read that Z article.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

I'm pretty sure P128x is the front sensor... while P127x is the rear primary... both primaries are in the manifolds after the cats I think. I have my stock manifolds around here somewhere. I'll dig them up sometime this weekend and take a look.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

No I think the
P12x3 is front
P12x4 is rear

Waiting to see what you find out on the stock manifolds. Thanks!

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

Ok. Don't get confused, but this is what the tech explained to me. The sensor on the rear header toward the firewall is triggering the front sensor to come on as well. However, my primary culprit is the rear one. These things are so dang sensitive. Here's a pic of the adapter off of ebay. It's like $15 shipped.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Yeah I've seen those spacers before. I wonder if that would work on our cars.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Yes very sensitive. So did you order the adapter already?

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

The tech there's this place called Lightning Motorsports locally that may have them. They will call them on Monday since they were closed today. If that place doesn't carry them, I'll order a pair on Monday. The tech says I only need one but I rather be safe than sorry. It should work since these O2 sensors have a universal thread. I figured if I ordered them today, they probably wouldn't ship till Monday anyway.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Yeah they are pretty cheap too, so if it doesn't work, oh well... I'm interested to see what kind of shape your primaries are in as well. My front one was all covered in carbon and was totally trashed.

Interestingly enough, I thought I'd try disconnecting the neg. terminal on my battery overnight. I let it sit for a good 10 hours... drove some 30 miles today, and no more 127x/128x code... But the P0138 came on as expected. I think it's because my one secondary o2 sensor that's only hooked up via one of the signal wires on the sim is bad... the heater wire most likely. But I could really care less, until inspection, which is a ways off. lol

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

Would disconnecting the negative terminal be the same as resetting the ECU? I've reset my ECU before several times only to have the CEL rear it's ugly head again. When I do go back and get this adapters installed on Friday, I'll see if they can clean the O2 sensors. I've haven't checked to see how much carbon buildup was on it.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Never really been too clear on the comparison of resetting with a generic scan tool/pedal method vs. disconnecting the battery. I still need to put more miles on before I'm really sure the P127x/128x issue is solved for me. Hopefully all that needed to be done was to replace the front primary. We'll see, but I have a feeling that code will show up again.

As for the secondaries, I doubt cleaning them will do any good. If they are bad, they are bad. Those things are so damn sensitive, it's not even funny. Oil even from a fingerprint will cause them to go bad.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

If I get my plugs repaced on Tuesday, I see if I can get some pics of mine.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Cool... I didn't bother with mine. Just threw it right in the trash. It was black. lol

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Any updates? I don't have anything yet myself.

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

I ordered a pair. However, I got one which is the length of the one pictured and another one which was about half the size. I did this because I wasn't sure how much room there would be for the extended o2 sensor. The tech said I should order one of each size just to be on the safe side. I should get them before Friday. I hope to get one of them installed then. The reason I'm only planning on installing one on the rear primary sensor(by firewall) is because that's the sensor that is tripping both of my primaries. If I do end up installing both I will let you all know. The next update will be about late Friday afternoon. I'll be praying hard that it works.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Stock manifolds... looks like both primaries are located after the cats. Man, those things are so terribly designed. lol

So, here's my deal now... I put on over 100 miles after having the front primary replaced... unplugged the battery overnight, and no more P1274/1283 etc. Just the P0138 from the rear sensors. I think the one that's only hooked up to the signal wire on the sim is bad... probably the heater wire. I might get that replaced soon too. Other than that, the car still drives fine, etc. I'll wait until I have to go get an emissions test... at least another year... if I still have the car...

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Smart idea to get two sizes!

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

Sorry guys. Some delay. The part didn't come in yet. Was hoping to get it done today. I'll let you guys know.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Talked to my tech today, he said the AF sensor are before the pre-cats on the stock manifolds, which is good. Look at the pic I posted of the headers, there are two openings one on the three in one pipe and then one on top of the header in the middle pipe. That is for the AF sensor, the bottom gets pluged and the sensor moved back behind the cat.

I'm starting to wonder if we have to sim out the rear 02 sensors anyway, why bother to move them behind the cat in the y-pipe?

Anyone have a pic of the stock manifold they can post?

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

You mean the first header in the pic with the pipe sticking out of the middle header? I thought that was for the EGR port?

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Guess I'll have to put those rusty pieces of crap on the floor and arrange them as if they were on the car... I just took a quick look. lol

Hmmm... the one header on the top in this pic:

http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...eaderspic1.jpg

The extension on the middle pipe, to the far right of the pic, is the EGR valve port. The other two holes on each manifold are for the primary sensors.

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

If you look at the first page of this thread by The Presence

http://forums.maxima.org/6th-generat...-oh-myyyy.html


The first pic shows the front header with the primary O2 sensor attached.



The next two pics are of the rear header by the firewall. Notice the primary sensor location in the first pic and a port to the EGR on the middle pipe of the rear header on the second pic?

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Ok, awesome... saves me the trouble. lol

So the front primary is before the cat, and the rear primary is after. Good post!

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

My bad, top is EGR valve.



Gotcha, at first I had a hard time seeing them both but you are right, they are both there. (Thanks to The Presence for posting those pics )

Two yellow lines connect are the EGRs and the single is the AF sensor port.
Well since the AF go in before the cats I wonder why we are having issues with all of these front sensors. Is just the extra air passing through since the exhuast is that much more free flowing? It will be great if those spacers work out.
.

athlon omega

iTrader: (4)

Update: It didn't work. The light still came on with the same codes. They used the longer adapter, the one pictured in this thread on the rear primary sensor. That was the sensor tripping off the light. The tech was saying the only alternative is to have the ECU flashed to read the O2 sensors at the higher ratio so as not to set off the light. Has anyone with an 05 and up maxima with the Cattman headers NOT had a CEL go off?

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

Well I think the key is to get the right Air/Fuel ratio via a tune and SAFCII because the stock AF sensors are looking for stock readings. NOT large quanities of air because of spacers, intakes, headers and no cats. I think we will probably always be outside of the OEM, maybe 350z sensors because they do fit.

My big concern is that we aren't ruining sensors, at over a $100 a shot, that can get expensive. Back to the drawing board. Perhaps the 5th gen guys have some tips for us. Perhaps we can create a link in their section or the motor section pointing back here.

There is a lot of knowledge and experience on this site, we need to tap into it.

Oolatec

iTrader: (5)

Well, once I replaced my front primary, I'm not getting any 12xx codes... it's been a few hundred miles and all seems good. Maybe you guys just have bad sensors... Did any of you take a good look at them? Those things are so damn sensitive... even a fingerprint can throw them outta wack.

Apollos2

iTrader: (16)

So you bought new sensors and had them extended and then put them in? Are you tuned on anything?

I think I need to just bite the bullet and get some sensors, mine are the originals.