jcalabria

That's why quite often the dealers try to bribe you with a free tank of gas or oil change or something if you return the satisfaction survey to them instead of mailing it directly to Nissan. Highly against the rules but it happens just the same.

They also get antsy about meeting the quotas - selling one or two more cars in the month can mean getting an extra $100-200 back on EVERY car they sold that month. That's how I got my '07 under invoice 10 days after intro. It was better for them to drop their pants on that one car than lose $200 each on the 99 other cars they sold that month (the $200 number was real at the time... not sure what the quota actually was). They were desperate... called me at home at 8:30p (after normal closing hours) on a Friday night (June 30th) begging for me to come in and close the deal. Drove out at 11:30pm with the car.

nitro230

OK, I'm kinda new to this whole thing and I am planning to get a new Maxima in the near future, so I had a quick question. Now that we know what invoice is, does anyone have an idea of what they are willing to pay with respect to invoice price. For example, the Maxima I want is the SV with Premium and Tech packages which invoices for $33,899. Knowing that, what would you go to the dealer expecting to pay in 5+ months (after all the initial hype wears off). Thanks.

rkurlander

I must have missed something. Where are invoice prices for 2009 Maxima? They're not at Edmunds.com or KBB.com.

nitro230

^

gizzsdad

Probably also worth pointing out that they are probably using the still controversial 'top box' scoring.

The gist of it is that they ask you a question about your experience and then offer multiple choice answers such as.......excellent, very good, average, below average and poor. The implication, of course, is that they want you have a range of options to answer with.

The reality is that the only acceptible grade for the dealer as far as Nissan is concerned, is excellent (the top box). So effectively there are only two possible answers - excellent - and everything else. So even though they give you 5-6 possible responses, the survey questions are scored as pass(excellent), or fail(every other answer).

The unfortunate result, is that rather than giving the dealership a meaningful tool they could use to pinpoint areas of improvement, the survey actually measures the dealership's ability to bribe or, at best, 'prepare' the customer for the survey.

lightonthehill

gizzisdad - As late as a year or so ago, that was still the way Nissan operated with their dealers. I assume nothing has changed since then.

The result is that Nissan actually learns almost nothing from these surveys. They become purely a fence the dealer must leap over, but provide no meaningful information. When giving a dealer next to the highest score available is in effect slitting his throat, something is radically wrong with the system.

lightonthehill

nitro230 - I calculate the same invoice ($33,899) you did for the packages you wanted. Just guessing, and assuming the economy has no way to improve measureably within the next year or more, I would hope to be able to negotiate the price for the vehicle you described to around $34,500 the first part of this December. That would be at an 'average' dealer at an 'average' time of month. You might have to work hard at some dealers to get this price, but it should be fairly easily reachable at other dealers.

At many dealers, and at some times of month (usually very late in the month, when quotas are looming), you might do a few hundred bucks better than that. At some dealers, depending on their quota stress, you might get this car near the end of December for between $34,000 and $34,100. To do any better than that would require that you hit some very special situation where the dealer absolutely had to have another sale.

WillieC

Consumer Reports (car pricing reports service) lists the dealer holdback for the 2009 Maxima is 2% of the invoice price.

So the holdback is $537 for the S Model, and $586 for the base SV.

I believe the 2008 Maxima holdback was 3%.

nitro230

lightonthehill...thank you for your helpful information. It will definitely be useful when I am ready to buy this car come 6 months from now. At least I now have a reasonable price that I will try to bring it down too.

lightonthehill

nitro230 - I hope your negotiations for the '09 go very well. If we consider the 'holdback' amounts just furnished by WillieC, we see the dealer will still make some money off the deal at the prices I suggested. Don't be shy about trying to do even a tad better than I suggested if possible. I think you will be getting a very exciting car.

WillieC - Thanks for the holdback info. We needed that.

NismoMax80

iTrader: (6)

well regardless of prices, they're selling. my dealer was void of 09s. they said as soon as one arrives, it's gone. i saw an 04 burnt ember with ugly baller chrome 20s. it was a trade in for the show room 09.

mls277

I called a salesman Ive dealt with and he is getting back to me tomorrow with some prices. I have to agree though, the price is high for what it is. It's a GREAT car, but this whole mid to upper 30's puts it in BMW Lexus Mercedes land...and that's not a good idea. This smells a lot like the Pontiac GTO when they went high on MSRP and held there thinking they had an automatic HR. With the economy and gas how it is this car should be MSRP loaded at 34k max. An SV with sport package should be 31-32 max with some good interest rates.

Anyone get a firm price on one yet?

lightonthehill

mis277 - WAY WAY WAY too early to talk price. This is a brand new redesign, and the dealers will get maximum dollars as long as they can, then come back to reality.

The time will come (probably late this fall; early winter at the very latest) when you will be able to drive off in an '09 SV with Sports package for $32K. Count on it.

The pricing on the '09 is very much in line with the way all autos are priced. And the way the dealers are handling very early sales is the way they have always handled early sales on a new redesign.

rkurlander

Yesterday I did a deal for an SV with technology package, HID Xenon headlights, bluetooth, backup camera, splashguards, floormats, full tank of gas. MSRP was $36,100. I paid $34,000 inclusive of all dealer fees and registration transfer. Add 3% NC tax = $35,020

ikalinin

iTrader: (1)

Dealers will never come back to reality. Dealers can only sell the car for what they can.. Best that will happen, is we'll get a rebate, possibly $6k like they did for Quest fro 07. Don't forget, dealers still get their money.. Nissan Nissan North America that dishes that rebate money out.. price of the car will not drop.. trust me, they know what they're doing.. the only problem w/ the price is the market, not the car price itself.

ikalinin

iTrader: (1)

you basically paid sticker for it, out the door though. so thats a pretty good price, considering its so early in production. But a good deal would be 2k or so below sticker out the door.. thats a great deal.

so sticker of the SV equiped w/ what you listed is about $36,100 (per nissanusa.com) i would wait for carsdirect.com price.. then we can do numbers. For a sticker $36,100, i wouldn't pay more than $33,5k-34k out the door for it. but $35k is still a pretty great deal (considering your tax is low.) our taxes went up like crazy.. i think we're up at 9.75% now! and downtown chicago area is 10.25%.. so come negotiate here!

rkurlander

North Carolina sales taxes are reasonably progressive. Technically there is no sales tax on vehicles - it's a 3% highway construction/maintenance tax. The downside is if you are a new state resident - the 3% is levied on the book value of your vehicle(s) when you get drivers license and register.

4themax

Residents of South Carolina pay a maximum of $300 for sales tax, no matter what the price of the vehicle. It's been that way in SC since I moved here in 1981. I'm feeling fortunate!

lightonthehill

ikalinin - I must disagree. Dealers WILL come back to reality. I don't remember a time in the last sixty years when this did not happen.

By the term 'dealers will come back to reality', I mean that the habit of most dealers of selling a brand new redesign for MSRP PLUS BIG DEALER MARKUP (which many dealers have been doing the first few weeks) or at or very near MSRP (which many dealers are now doing) will gradually change to where the dealer is selling for a price around halfway between invoice and MSRP (a very few dealers are approaching that point already) to a point where most dealers will be selling somewhere not far from invoice. They can do that because they still have a 2% holdback, which gives them over half a thousand profit on top of however much above invoice they sold the car for.

The net effect is the difference between MSRP plus around another $1K pack (the dealers around where I live added around a $2 pack) down to around invoice, which could be a difference of well over $4,000. THAT is what I mean by 'coming back to reality', and will be in addition to any rebates we may get. With these tough economic times, that will happen sooner than later. Count on it.

mls277

I guess when I get a 36k OTD price on a fairly well loaded 2008 328XI Sedan it made me think. I like the Maxima, but if I'm paying 36 grand Im going with BMW.

Maybe I should go with a 2008 Maxima with the Sport Packages etc for the 1.9% and all the other discounts.

What would you guys pay for a 34,160 MSRP on a 2008 maxima with 1.9%?

lightonthehill

mis277 - If you read through the many posts here (I realize that would take more time than some of us have), you will see that by this fall, you should be able to drive an '09 Maxima with Sports package off the lot for under $33K, and by January, for under $32K.

I realize these are two different cars. The Maxima has more room, is more luxurious, has better accelleration, and is FWD and CVT-powered, while the BMW is sportier, probably more fun to drive for enthusiasts, is RWD, and comes with a tranny that actually shifts. Both are fine cars. But $3K to $4K difference in driveout is significant to me. I would have to have a strong preference for the BMW before I would ante up the extra money.


Considering that Atlanta Nissan dealers are advertising '08 base Maximas for around $21K to $22K (over $6K below MSRP), and the arrival of the '09 makes the '08 a 'year old' as it sits on the lot, I would insist on a price no higher than just under $30K for the MSRP $34K vehicle. Really persistent folks should be able to do better than that.

Hurricane434

rkurlander,

So you got $2,100 off the MSRP? That sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Does that include a trade-in? Have fun in your new car!

rkurlander

No trade in, I sold the previous car (2004 Honda Accord) to a third party.

perrymaxima

I just don't understand why the MSRP is so high for a FWD car with 3 year 36K mile warranty if this was a high 20s to low 30s car fully loaded it would sell like hot cakes. I've owned both a maxima and G35 and even though the 7th gen Maxima looks better than the 2nd Gen G35 and has more features I just can't imagine anyone paying low to mid 30s for a moderately equiped Maxima. People shouldn't have to haggle or wait months into production to get this car it's hott

STARR

iTrader: (1)

Nissan Dealers are doing what every other dealer does when a new model comes in, they try and milk it for as long as possible, the Maxima is all around great, but I can go to Infiniti and get a better deal on any new Infiniti except the FX50 and M45, I went to Nissan and the Maximas are not flying off the lots but their are plenty of buyers to keep the price inflated, back when I got my 06 I need a car now Im just waiting to see who can actually sell me a car and the Maxima is not the only car out their

lightonthehill

STARR - MSRP is high on lots of vehicles these days. You wont find a 'FULLY LOADED' car in the Maxima's class with an MSRP any lower. Don't make the mistake of considering cars like the Accord, Camry, etc, as being in the Maxima's class; with this redesign of the '09 Maxima, those cars are now strictly in the Altima's class.

Look at a fully loaded TL Type "S" or a fully loaded G35. I like the Maxima better than either of those cars, but they are in the Maxima's class. They have an MSRP around $40K and up. Then understand that the base Maxima has an MSRP under $30K, and an 'SV' with the great Sports package has an MSRP of $34,090.

Then realize that, just like this Maxima, neither the TL Type 'S' or G35 was discounted very much the first few months after a complete redesign, and you will see where things are with the Maxima at this time.

It won't be long until an '09 'S' can be had for around $27,500, and the 'SV' with Sports package can be 'stolen' for around $32,500.

This '09 Maxima is a step up in almost every way a car can be measured. Everything considered, Nissan has this '09 Maxima priced very fairly.



EDIT - In retrospect, this post was probably more a response to perrymaxima's post than to STARR's.

BluFlame

iTrader: (2)

yeah guys just wait a little, prices will come down significantly, if you cant wait and really like this car, you'll be paying 4-5k more now.

onlyoneway2rock

SV comes with leather seats, and the SV with either sport package or premium package comes with "premium leather seats" which as much as I can tell, means same quality as used in the Infiniti G and M models. How that differs from the leather used in last year's Maximas and Altimas, I don't know.

I have the 2009 SV with sport package, the front seats are the most comfortable car seats I"ve ever sat in, more so than the those inmy 2007 Maxima!

Dean

illlojik

iTrader: (2)

Test drove one yesterday. Filly Loaded SV sports package, nav, spoiler, etc.
They started @ 37,500.. I laughed at them and told them it'd a Nissan..I can walk across the street to the infiniti dealership. They eventually went down to 33008 on the demo car (same package).
I may not roll with it though, thought about it, payments will be a bit much for way too long. 6k down 500/m for 72
Thats including all their bs dealership fees. Getting my deposit back on Monday

lightonthehill

illojik - You probably made the right move. Although you got the price to a very reasonable point, I don't think anyone should spread car payments out for six years. That results in far too much interest being paid. Also, although many folks feel their job is secure, it isn't. In these stressed and recessive times, no job is truly secure. Folks are losing jobs by the hundreds of thousands every month, and have been for over a year.

Some manufacturers even have SEVEN year plans, which end up costing many thousands in interest. I think one should try very hard to hold car payments to either 36 or 48 months.

I grew up during the great depression (1930s), and absolutely abhor paying interest. I refused to buy 'on time'. As a consequence, I never owned a new car until I was age 65. But those years of sacrifice put me in good financial shape, and I have paid cash on the barrelhead for my last few Maximas, and will be doing so again for my '09 this fall.

When making decisions in the present, always keep the future in mind.

bb700092

Light, I beg to differ. When we get a good APR for our loan, the best option is to extend that loan for as long as possible, especially when one has no intention of trading in the car soon. A "good APR" is defined as the APR which is less than the money one can make out of that loan amount (from bank interest, investing in stocks, etc.) minus the taxes and inflation rate (typically considered 3%-4% but might be more in this dwindling economy). Even though we pay more to the bank as interest by prolonging our loan term, we are also making more money out of it through our investments. So you will be the one who eventually makes more for yourself than a short-term loaner or upfront payer even though you might pay more to the bank than him.

For example, suppose Mr. X borrows $30k from the bank at 1.9% APR (typically what NMAC offers) for 3 years while Mr. Y borrows $30k at the same APR for 6 years. X's monthly payment will be $858 while Y's will be $442. In 3 years, X will pay the bank a total interest of $887 while Y will pay $1767 in 6 years, i.e. Y will pay $880 more than X.

Assume both X and Y would invest $2,000 a month if they had no car payments. Also assume they can get 9% interest on their investments. After deducting taxes and inflation, suppose their effective interest rate is 3%. In a span of 6 years, X will be able to invest $2,000-$858=$1,142 per month for the first 36 months and $2,000 per month for the next 36 months. In a span of 6 years, Y will be able to invest $2,000-$442=$1,558 per month for the 72 months. So, in the same 6 year period, X will make $122,245 while Y will make $122,739, i.e. Y will make almost $500 more than X investing the same amount over the same time even though Y paid more to the bank. This difference will increase as the effective interest rate increases.

The bottom line is we do not get richer by calculating how much money we are giving away to the bank. We get richer by calculating how much money we are making by investing the money we borrow from the bank.

If one considers your point that no one's job is secure is this economy and takes that seriously enough, then he should not buy any car above $10k and only if he really really really needs a car. A Maxima is too much of a lavishness for such a guy. I doubt whether he should even visit this forum!

lightonthehill

bb700092 - Can't argue with much of your post. It is sort of difficult for me to think through a situation in which car loan rates are as low as they are today. I retired 13 years ago, but grew up in an era (first car -1949) where car loans were between 5% and 10% APR, depending on how the bank viewed ones financial situation.

I am fortunate in that I have had very good performance from my portfolio and real estate investments - well above 4% after taxes. Also, money paid into some voluntary retirement programs gain very favorable tax status. But I agree that, for the average investor, a 4% after taxes gain would be very typical.

In view of your math, I would suggest that a car loan might be timed with the next purchase in mind. I always purchase a new Maxima the first year of each generation. That is usually every five years. If I were borrowing to pay for my Maxima, I would try to have it paid off at the time I was ready for the next one. Not that it would make a huge difference, when your math is taken into account.

As to your thoughts abut who should be considering buying an '09 Maxima, there is probably more truth in your statement than some here on the ORG realize.

bb700092

Light, most people think they should not extend a loan because then they will end up paying too much to the bank, just as you stated. While this is true for house mortgages, it is often not true for cars because one can get a "good APR" for a car, especially in this economy. Getting a mortgage rate below 5% is unheard of and as you said, 4% is the typical rate of return from investments after taxes. So it is difficult (though not impossible) to beat the mortgage rate.

I think, if this economic condition continues for another year (i.e. till the middle of 2010), Nissan might be offering less than 1.9% APR on the 09 Maxima.

lightonthehill

bb700092 - If the economy continues to slip and flounder as it has this past year, I would not be surprised by a lowering of the APR by next March (in time for the usually strong spring sales period). But I don't think either of us would see a rebate any time soon, as it is difficult to imagine a rebate the first year of a new generation Maxima that is getting mostly fine reviews.

In thinking back, I remember going through your math process when I was in the 15th year of paying for my first home. I bought it in '65 with a 5.25% VA (Veterans) loan. By '80, I was considering paying the balance off. But I did the same math you did above, realized that the interest being paid on CDs was over 10% at that time, and immediately dropped any notion of paying off the balance of my mortgage early. That was so long ago, it hadn't crossed my mind that, with an APR of 1.9, we are in a somewhat similar situation, in which most folks would gain little by paying the full amount up front.

I will no longer wince when I see posters here talking in terms of long-term payments.

sbebs

I wanted to start a new thread, but i don't have permission to so mods feel free to move it....but to the point. I would assume many of you also are familiar with the g35, my question is; How does the 2009 maxima compare on your eyes to the 2008 g35 sedan. I am looking to purchase a car in the October time frame, but the issue I notice is that with the g37 sedan coming out, dealers are really trying to get rid of g35s. I saw MSRP of over 41K going for 36k on the 2008 loaded g35x. So if a nissan dealer is not willing to move much on price in October, do you think it is better to pay 1k more for a fully loaded 2008 g35x then a fully loaded 2009 Maxima? What do you think the strengths and weaknesses are of both? Thanks for your input!

jcalabria

I faced a very similar situation in June 2007. Nissan had just rolled out the 6.5g Max at the same time the Infiniti dealers were having a fire-sale on the 1st Gen G35 in prep for the 2nd gen G35 intro. The G35 lease price was actually lower than the Max ($369/mo vs $399/mo) but, in the end, I decided on yet another Max. The two main reasons I opted for the Max were:

• Much larger interior space. I'm 6'1", 275lbs and the G cockpit felt very narrow and confining.
• Although I personally prefer RWD, my wife and daughter would on occasion be driving the car and I felt better about them driving a FWD vehicle. Don't tell them I said this, but FWD is just more idiot proof, lol.

I knew when I made this choice I was trading away handling, but I didn't realize how much. The 6G has been, to me, a major dissapointment and step backwards from earlier Maximas in the handling department. If I knew then what I know now, I very well might have exercised my third option, a TL. However, the 7G appears to be a vast improvement - likely at the very forefront of FWD handling.

Despite published specs that indicate otherwise, the real world roominess - particularly leg and head room - of the 7G is a major improvement over the 6G. I could not believe how much more leg and headroom the 7G has vs my 6G. This will likely be a continuing advantage over the G as well. The 7G seat construction is also a vast improvement - much more euro than any other Max.

If you like the G, now may be a very good time to pick one up. On the other hand, if you have a little patience I am certain you will see Maxima street prices coming down. Of course, if you are looking for an MT, you really don't have a choice.

In the end, you really need to drive both and find out which car you prefer... there is no universal right or wrong answer... just which is best for your situation and set of priorities.

Personally, any deal I made on an '08 G35 would have to include them sending the car to the body shop to paint the horribly fugly chrome trunk lip. The first time I saw one I laughed at the driver because I thought he put some cheap crappy JC Whitney accessory on his beautiful G35. When I realized that they came from the factory that way I just about cried... WTF were they thinking? It ranks right up there with the 6.0 Max tooth on the fugliness scale.

reb

" my question is; How does the 2009 maxima compare on your eyes to the 2008 g35 sedan."


The '09 Max compares very un-favorably to the '08 G 35 thru my eyes. Its a no brainer, go for the Infinti.

MAXIMAK99

I would say go with the new Max. The reason why is because Infinty is coming out with a new G sedan, probably with a 3.7. So unless you wanna be rolling the previous G sedan model for the next 4 year or so, I would get the 7th gen Max. The new Max's style is not going to change any time soon. But to each their own, good luck, and really you can't lose either way.

sbebs

Thanks for the replies everybody, I really do appreciate the feedback. I have been to one dealer to see the new Max and I thought it was Awesome looking. I do not desire a manual and i live off of lake erie, so RWD is not a wise idea. And I so agree about the chrome lip, very tacky and cheap looking.

lightonthehill

I agree with what jcalabria and MAXIMAK99 said.

I really liked the G35 design when it arrived, but it has been around for some time now, and is beginning to look dated. This design will very shortly be replaced, and then be even more dated. I always felt a little cramped in the G35, especially in the back seat. Never felt that way in the Maxima, and have been surprised that the shorter '09 Maxima feels as roomy as it does. The serious indentation if the lower portion of the backs of the front seats in the '09 gives very good knee room for back seat riders. I was also pleased the '09 Maxima has as much head room as it does; I had feared headroom might be compromised with the redesign.

For me, the '09 Maxima seats are clearly more comfortably than either my 6th gen Maxima seats or the seats in any G35 I have sat in.

I personally prefer FWD, and also prefer the new 'Coke bottle' athletic agressive look of the '09 Maxima over the slab-sided G35. But every person's taste is different, and the G35 styling is also good. If I had to buy today, the deal on the clearance-priced G35 could be better than on a loaded '09 Maxima. By October, this could even out.

Of course it might not be a good idea to wait until October if you choose the '08 G35, as the choice there will soon diminish as the '09s arrive. I would look at both candidates carefully, drive both, and decide which car seemed best for my needs before making the decision. The good thing is they are both Nissan products, and you can't go badly wrong with either.