Far too many manual fans here are still refusing to face the elephant in the room.

YES, Nissan can build a manual Maxima. It isn't really that difficult.

Yes, Nissan actually DID build a manual Maxima for a quarter of a century.

No, the public was not enthusiastic enough about the manual Maximas to keep buying them.

So dealers refused to order them, accepting only the manuals Nissan practically forced them to take with 'can't refuse' deals. Then promptly sold them at cost or lower to clear the parking space for a car customers wanted to see and buy that the dealer could clear a profit on.

Those faulting Nissan for dropping the manual Maxima are flailing the wrong cow. The reason the manual Maxima was dropped was NOT because Nissan did not want to MAKE them, but because CUSTOMERS WERE NOT BUYING THEM.

Those whimpering about not being able to find manuals on the dealer's lot, even when Nissan was making them, are moaning about the SYMPTOM, not the problem. the lack of manuals on the dealer's lot was SYMPTOMATIC of the PROBLEM that manuals were not selling.

Manual fans need to simply turn around, look right at this elephant in the room, and give Nissan credit for foolishly continuing to build manual Maximas through 2006, by which time sales of manuals had long since dwindled below 3% of total Maxima sales.

Yes, I enjoy driving a manual on a winding mountain road. But auto manufacturers are having desperate times, and to build a car that dealers can't sell should lead any sound Board of Directors to fire the officials making such a foolish decision.

Those here encouraging Nissan to build a manual Maxima are showing a total lack of understanding of basic business practices.

 

Everything you just wrote is a spot-on analysis, but a hard sell considering how many Org members drive a MT. There was a thread poll sometime back that pegged it just under 50%.

It's a tough room, Hill.

 

Bet you if they did a public poll globally in Maxima.org and not just in the 5th gen area, etc, you'd see some seriously different numbers than the 50%.

 

They did. Here it is, hiding in plain sight, too: http://forums.maxima.org/general-max...l-v-2-0-a.html

My numbers were off: 2112 automatics to 1633 manuals. Or 56.4% to 43.6%


Now Smurf, if you really want to explore 7th Gen values a little more proactively, create and sticky a Yes/No polling thread in the 7th gen forum only:I'm guessing you'd see over 50% yes-responses. Then again, it's a different time, and a different average-age.

 

So you are saying this technologically advanced transmission can't handle the simple command of going to max power without human intervention? My 60's American-made transmissions had no problem with that! I put the transmission to a test, and in that instance, it failed.

As I said before, your elephant in the room is largely anecdotal. Cadillac advertises availablity of a manual in their CTS, but try to find one on a dealer's lot. Yet I'll bet if you really wanted a manual CTS, they would get you one. There is no reason Nissan could not do the same if they wanted. Nissan deleted many good features from the Maxima in the 2010 model, and I think it's a shame.

Look, I'm not begrudging you that you want an automatic. The Maxima is a good car--I steered our two lady friends to new Maximas, and they bought theirs partially on my recommendation. It has one of the best engines in the business, and the automatic works well the great majority of time.

However, I personally like a manual. I couldn't care less if an automatic shifts faster--it has no relevance to the way I use my car. The only advantage I see in the CVT is that you don't have to shift, period. Nissan is saying they no longer want my business, and I can live with that, but I don't have to like it.

However, I refuse to side with the apologists for Nissan who choose to please stockholders rather than customers, an attitude that brought Detroit to their knees.

 

Yet...everytime i go to a dealership or a meet....EVERYONE is always like "Wow, you got a 6spd...I've been looking all over for that....you wanna sell it?"....so, its only me, but a manual tranny is much more fun than an automatic and makes driving these great cars just a little bit more enjoyable.....and they are definately coveted by serious car enthusiasts

 

and hence part of why GM is owned by Obama and the US citizens. Don't be fooled when GM said they repaid their loans a couple of months ago. They have no sales, where did they get the coin?

Part of GM's problem is what you say they do, they build cars that very few people want to buy. The successful companies stopped that long ago. Which companies went to Congress begging for cash to stay afloat? Yet, here you are complaining that one of companies that didn't take bailout cash, due to the company only making cars that the vast majority of people want and buy, is smart enough to do what is profitable.

 

But what they're building that people aren't buying isn't manual transmission cars.

I doubt that it's the cost of fitting the odd MT-equipped car into the production sequence that's particularly costly. I'd look more toward the certification expenses.


Norm

 

^

 

Oh, good point!

6MT > CVT
CVT > AT

 

I see your point & understand that manuals are not in high demand, however I would be happy if Nissan offered it as an "Order Only" option. Mercedes does on their C300 Sport & I imagine that the CTS manual would have to be ordered too. I don't expect the dealers lot to be lined with 6-Speed inventory as they need to turn vehicles quickly. Heck, make it an order only option and charge extra money for it. Peace.

 

Dont forget the CTS and C300 are all RWD. Nissan didnt wanna make the Maxima look like a Joke (Can u imagine a FWD 290hp sedan w/ a 6spd? IN this day and age!). None of its direct competitors offer Manual trans. (Avalon, ES350, FWD TL and Azera)

 

Whether other cars are RWD, FWD, or AWD is immaterial here. There is no mechanical reason why 290 HP, MT, four doors, and FWD cannot be a workable combination. Nor does the particular point in time of "this day and age" being mid-2010 matter, if you're secure enough to make choices that stand apart from what others prefer.

Of course I can imagine such a combination – affordability assumed, it would have headed to the top of our last "short list".


BTW, Nissan certainly did run a joke, though I'm not sure if it was on us or on the Maxima. It's when they tried to call the 7th Gen a "4DSC".


Norm

 

It's just product marketing. There's no joke involved.

 

I'm sure it wasn't intended as one . . .

and the joke might be on the advertising genius. Didn't one of the agencies that was working with Nissan for a little while fairly recently end up doing business with/for GM?


Norm

 

I really hate to be the continual bearer of bad news here, but the idea of having a manual Maxima that had to be special ordered just will not fly under any conditions. We obviously have posters here who have never owned and run a manufacturing plant. That is a total pipe dream.

That would require the same engineering, supply chain, stocking paperwork, certification, etc, as if 100,000 were going to be built. But the reality is that less than 1K would be ordered, and Nissan knows this. Not many more that that were sold in 2006, when large dealers had manuals sitting on the lot, and customers could order them exactly like they wanted.

I agree with others that Nissan should have kept a manual option on the high volume Altima. But it is not going to happen on a low volume car like the Maxima.

I think some here are not aware the Maxima is in a different category than it once was. Over 132,000 '04 Maxima were built. Probably LESS THAN HALF that number are being built each year with the 7th gen.

 

CVT all the way!

 

I've always been a little scared to post in here because I don't want my head ripped off but I thought I'd finally give it a try... Please be gental. Haha

let's discuss longevity for a minute. Is it likely that pairing our engine with the CVT vs a Manual or even a traditional automatic is better for the engine because of reduced wear? Over a span of say 15 years of normal driving (no speed demons) the engine with the CVT should outlive or be in better condition than the manual or traditional automatic due to the RPL (revolutions per lifetime)that the engine has seen. I would imagine if it were possible to count total revolutions over a given time the CVT would come under any other transmission. Also if it were able to count the amount of time spent at higher RPMs over a given time shouldn't the CVT have less time at those higher RPMs thus causing a reduction of engine wear? If that were to be the case wouldn't that directly affect expected lifespans of the CVTs engine to possibly out live engines paired with other transmissions?

 

Hard to say, and probably depends on how any particular car is driven. Being continuously variable, under acceleration the revs will tend to run high immediately rather than having to wait for the car's road speed to let them be there. And the revs will stay up there because in true CVT operation there are no discrete upshifts to cause them to drop back (instead of the engine varying speed to match increasing road speed, rpm is held more or less constant and the overall gearing varies).

I imagine that Nissan has some idea about wear rates vs engine rpm and probably a few other things (% load, temperature). Maybe light can fill in some information concerning whether the CVT seeks low ratios (and high engine rpms) as aggressively when the engine isn't fully warmed up as it does when the engine is.


Norm

 

I can't entirely see why not.

The business model that gave us the extra-cost option of selecting an automatic transmission worked well enough for several decades, and people willingly shelled out anywhere from a hundred dollars or so way-back-when to a thousand in recent years. People chose to spend upward of $1000 for the convenience, and the mfrs gladly obliged. So I don't see why being able to spend a similar amount to satisfy a different preference should be any different. Sure, there is some overall plant efficiency gain to be had by eliminating choice ("any color you want as long as it's black", anyone?), but it comes at the risk of losing certain customers. Or worse, alienating them.

It would be reasonable for Nissan to require a larger percentage as a down payment, but the customer would know that going in.


There would be some extra effort expended in each of those areas, but they needn't be full-blown, start-from-scratch activities. You should be able to piggy-back the engineering and certifications on the "standard" AT/CVT development efforts. I have no idea of the relative costs of a 6MT vs a CVT, except that a conventional 6MT does not require any sort of electronic/electrical operation or development of the requisite code. The only impact I can see with respect to the basic chassis is making sure that both transmissions will fit; that it isn't optimized so far toward the fitment of one transmission that it physically cannot accept the other.

I don't think it's all that difficult to build different versions of the same car or even slightly different cars on the same production line – I've watched several versions of the Corvette and Cadillac's CTS roll down the same line at Bowling Green, interspersed in no particular order.


Norm

 

Great points Flip! Welcome to the seemingly endless argument

 

Respecfully, I don't agree with the supply chain arguments you make as I am pretty sure that Nissan has engineered a manual for this engine and with today's computerized manufacturing processes it would not be that hard to drop a manual in on a per order basis, besides they could charge extra for it. Also, based on your arguments of having to plan for 100,000 units when less would be made, you have inadvertently made the case for Nissan to simply stop building the Maxima altogether & switch to only Altima.

 

Well, change the 100,000 to 10,000, which is probably more manuals than were ever put in any model year of the Maxima.

As long as Nissan can sell around 70,000 copies of the Maxima, Nissan would be foolish to drop it, because Maxima drivers are, by nature, looking for something a little special. The Altima is an excellent car, but with over a million on the road, they are certainly nothing special. I cetainly have no interest in an Altima.

 

Plus one on the no interest in an altima

 

manual ftw!!!!! wooo hoo lol

 

Thank you, that is exactly how me, & people like me, feel about an automatic transmission Maxima.

 

Thank you, that is exactly how me, & people like me, feel about an automatic transmission Maxima. [/QUOTE]

uuhhh i second that!!!!!

 

but don't you own one??? Guess it wasn't that important to ya.

 

amen to that. lets keep this thread alive for the next decade!

 

Don't act like you don't like it 5 ltr. wife beater. This thread is much like the CVT itself in how its long lasting and that it can shift at any moment and doesn't have to slow down to do it. It should have it's own theme song played everytime you enter. It would probably go a lil somthin like this...

Ain't no thread like the CVT thread cuz the CVT don't stop!

 

Losing power and acceleration FTL

Staying in the peak of the powerband for extended amounts of time FTW

 

I wonder if there is a thread out there somewhere called "The offcial Betamax vs VHS thread"

 

That's good.

Except that Betamax was a superior tech that failed for market reasons.

Oh. Hey, that might be your point.

 

Haha I am suprised someone else knew that. My buddy uses Betamax at the TV station he works for. It kind of contradicts my own point but I was aiming it to those who are under the assumption that Betamax was an old failed version of the VHS. It was the only the thing I could come up with at the time

Maybe 8 track vs Cassette?

My point was just there will always be an arguement of old versus new regardless of the time frame and technology

 

There is. It's right next to the HD DVD vs Blu Ray

 

....untill they can build a CVT to handle serious bolt-ons...CVT will always be second place to me. i dont care that it can last 10 years.

 

He makes a good point. Are you 7th genners applying any power mods yet? Because I'm feeling pretty confident about the old 6MT handling whatever we throw at it.

I'm guessing there are power mod options, and threads on the same. But IDK for sure, so please excuse my 7th gen forum ignorance.

 

More like "if any serious bolt-ons actually existed" this would be a valid comment today.

Not a lot out their today for the Maxima I wouldn't worry about a 5 HP gain from an air filter.

 

I see Flip put on his flame retardant undies and jumped in here. And no, this thread won't ever die, nor do I expect it to. Heck, even stickied so we don't have 15 versions of the same thread too. That would just make my life as a mod suck....

Oh, and I too had 8track, HD DVD (still do) and Betamax. Shoot, even had the record size Videodisc for awhile. If you want to know what tech NOT to buy when it comes to stuff like that, just ask what I have and buy the other version.....

Oh, and for the record, I do like the CVT in the 7th gen, didn't like it in the 6th gen. Tho I know how to drive a MT car, and trucks all the way up to a 5ton tanker truck, I don't much care for it, esp. in the traffic and crap where I live. Turns into more of a chore than fun.

 

Well I perfer the CVT to the manual because I can't even drive a stick. The stupid things keep shutting off on me when I try to take off at a red light... I don't know what I'm doing wrong.







Calm down people, I'm only kidding. Just a joke. When I first bought a vehicle I coulnt even afford the luxuries of an automatic (or flame retardant undies for that matter. Have you ever priced those things out? One word. Expensive!) My first couple of vehicles all had to be manuals.