The Official CVT vs Manual Transmission Thread
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 780
From: Orlando, FL
Weight plays a big factor. Different passanger loads will affect MPG. If whenever y'all are together you drive her car that means she's not with you when drive yours and you could be by yourself. Is your lady friend a Fatty? That would not help MPH.
Last edited by Flip2cho; Aug 23, 2010 at 05:39 AM.
Buyers beware, local pick up recommended. Slow to ship out items already paid for.
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 823
From: Cranston, RI
my friend has a murano with the cvt trans. i drove it. didnt really like how it seemed to stay at a high rpm and go slowly down. feels like somethings wrong but its how it drives. It is smooth with no shifting...maybe its just getting used to it? idk. I do prefer a manual on the other maximas but it seems they changed from a 4 door sports car to a luxury car even tho they put the 4dsc sticker on the 7th gens. knowing that I think it works. it also gives better gas mileage.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,341
From: state of confusion
Norm
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,341
From: state of confusion
The term 'automatic' as used with trannys for over fifty years has always had the connation of a tranny that shifts gears 'automatically.' The CVT has no gears, and hence cannot be shifting gears. We will just have to sort of disagree on whether the CVT is an 'automatic' or a new form of transmission or both. Not that it really matters.
A conventional automatic isn't a whole lot different from a CVT when the torque converter is "slipping" under heavy load; the engine revs under such conditions don't bear much semblance to road speed either. Earlier than that, simple fluid coupling AT's were even less "positive feeling".
Perhaps the relationship of a CVT to a conventional automatic is similar to that between a DSG and a true manual (discrete paddle-shifting sans clutch isn't a true manual in my book, just a pair of glorified microswitches and some solenoids - you certainly aren't "manually" moving any gear engagement mechanisms).
What I'm getting at is that neither fits the traditional definitions, which would have had no reason to anticipate CVTs ever being more than an automotive curiosity (DAF) or DSGs at all.
Norm
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 231
From: Hfx, N.S.
I know the economics of offering a manual option for the 7th gen is such a driving factor but I get realy fustrated when nissan invests r&d into this:
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...308239968/1279
Gee if they made a drop top maxima with a manual it problaby would sell more vehicles than this murano.
And this
I like the juke ( has a manual option) on paper but the looks are so polarizing that it would not be an purchase option when comparing to any models in its class.
Nissan wastes money on this stuff and cannot give us a limited edition maxima with a manual transmisson that would sell in my opinion. Fustrating
http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...308239968/1279
Gee if they made a drop top maxima with a manual it problaby would sell more vehicles than this murano.
And this
I like the juke ( has a manual option) on paper but the looks are so polarizing that it would not be an purchase option when comparing to any models in its class.
Nissan wastes money on this stuff and cannot give us a limited edition maxima with a manual transmisson that would sell in my opinion. Fustrating
Last edited by maxger; Aug 23, 2010 at 09:22 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 738
From: New Jersey
A CVT certainly does 'shift' - just not in discrete steps (at least in pure CV mode). It's a change in overall ratio, for which the word 'shift' fits as a synonym. And automatic in that the driver does not necessarily have direct manual control over the precise ratio in real time separate from the throttle. "Shift -continuously" as I see in the sig of one of the members here (apologies for not remembering who offhand). Light, I think that maybe a little of your manual tranny slip is showing.
A conventional automatic isn't a whole lot different from a CVT when the torque converter is "slipping" under heavy load; the engine revs under such conditions don't bear much semblance to road speed either. Earlier than that, simple fluid coupling AT's were even less "positive feeling".
Perhaps the relationship of a CVT to a conventional automatic is similar to that between a DSG and a true manual (discrete paddle-shifting sans clutch isn't a true manual in my book, just a pair of glorified microswitches and some solenoids - you certainly aren't "manually" moving any gear engagement mechanisms).
What I'm getting at is that neither fits the traditional definitions, which would have had no reason to anticipate CVTs ever being more than an automotive curiosity (DAF) or DSGs at all.
Norm
A conventional automatic isn't a whole lot different from a CVT when the torque converter is "slipping" under heavy load; the engine revs under such conditions don't bear much semblance to road speed either. Earlier than that, simple fluid coupling AT's were even less "positive feeling".
Perhaps the relationship of a CVT to a conventional automatic is similar to that between a DSG and a true manual (discrete paddle-shifting sans clutch isn't a true manual in my book, just a pair of glorified microswitches and some solenoids - you certainly aren't "manually" moving any gear engagement mechanisms).
What I'm getting at is that neither fits the traditional definitions, which would have had no reason to anticipate CVTs ever being more than an automotive curiosity (DAF) or DSGs at all.
Norm
It took me several months to learn the nooks and crannies so to speak of the CVT and how to get great mpg out of her! Its still hard sometimes, especially if I'm in a funky mood and I just like to floor it to get that loud exhaust note, but hey, life is worth living, right?
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 133
From: San Antonio
The term 'automatic' as used with trannys for over fifty years has always had the connation of a tranny that shifts gears 'automatically.' The CVT has no gears, and hence cannot be shifting gears. We will just have to sort of disagree on whether the CVT is an 'automatic' or a new form of transmission or both. Not that it really matters.
You could not be more wrong on your nefarious reasons why Nissan deleted the manual or chose the CVT for the Maxima. The manual was dropped for the simple reason dealers would not accept them because buyers were not buying them. Nissan went to the CVT because it weighs half as much as a 5 speed automatic, has fewer moving parts, and gives better fuel efficiency and better acceleration than shifting trannies. Purely cold scientific logic.
To judge the quality of the 6th gen vs the 7th gen on one sample is hardly a logical way to measure anything. I could cite the six problems that existed on my '04 SL when I bought it, one of which resulted in the driver's footwell filling with several inches of water, and compare that with my 7th gen, which has been problem-free for almost 19 months. But that would again be trying to judge quality on one sample, which is meaningless.
Age is definitely a factor in what? What does the tranny a 96 year old driver uses have anything to do with normal drivers, 99.99% of whom are NOT yet 96
The manual no longer exists in the Maxima, but the Maxima is being enjoyed by drivers from age 16 to age 99. A majority of drivers posting on Maxima.org's 7th generation board are between age 18 and age 38, so those who try to associate trannies with age are defeating their own argument.
The last vehicle I owned before buying my first Maxima was a 5 speed manual, and I have driven manuals off and on for over sixty years. But choosing to drive an automatic or a CVT because of having to spend lots of time in traffic gridlock has no connection to age. My personal opinion is that using a 96 year old in order to assign trannys to ages in general is about as unscientific as one can get.
The manual no longer exists in the Maxima, but the Maxima is being enjoyed by drivers from age 16 to age 99. A majority of drivers posting on Maxima.org's 7th generation board are between age 18 and age 38, so those who try to associate trannies with age are defeating their own argument.
The last vehicle I owned before buying my first Maxima was a 5 speed manual, and I have driven manuals off and on for over sixty years. But choosing to drive an automatic or a CVT because of having to spend lots of time in traffic gridlock has no connection to age. My personal opinion is that using a 96 year old in order to assign trannys to ages in general is about as unscientific as one can get.
Look, I know you are happy with your 2010 Maxima, and I'm happy it works for you, but I've gotten over the new-car bug with my friend's Maxima, and I am just not that impressed. Mileage is no better than 6th Gen (More HP--less mileage if you use it), I had no problem not having enough power in my 4th Gen or my 6th Gen. Nissan quite simply did not build a car for my tastes in the 7th Gen.
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 133
From: San Antonio
Actually she weighs about 90 pounds!
Last edited by Per; Aug 23, 2010 at 09:38 PM.
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 133
From: San Antonio
He is actually happy with automatics, which he has driven for the past 30+ years, ever since he got rid of his stick-shift pick-up truck. We talk about cars a lot, and he has told me repeatedly he would never consider a stick-shift now. He has a 2005 Camry, and happy with it after 70k miles.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
It's hardly a new transmission, having been used in scooters for years! Like Norm and I say, if you don't have to shift it, it's an automatic, period!
LOTH says:
************************************************** ********************
*** I'm very aware the CVT has been out for many decades, going back to that
*** rubber band Dutch car of yore. But as a PRACTICAL AND EFFECTIVE tranny, the
*** CVT is fairly new, and this redesigned CVT of the 7th gen Maxima is the
*** first CVT I felt was advanced enough to be acceptable for me. I am willing
*** to consider the CVT as a very efficient form of automatic tranny, and have
*** gradually come to appreciate the ways I have found to use it to best advantage.
************************************************** *********************
Per says:
You keep defending Nissan by bringing up these stories that I have found no factual basis for based on what I have seen here in San Antonio and other placed I looked at Maximas since the 6th Gen came out. Your so-called logic about better fuel economy does not bear out in real life as I have documented repeatedly. And the one time I asked for hard acceleration from the 2010 Max, it let me down, so don't give me the scientific logic crap!
LOTH says:
************************************************** *********************
*** You are evidently out of touch with the reality of Nissan's experience with trying
*** to sell the Maxima in manual form. Nissan offered a manual Maxima for 26 years,
*** and the percentage of buyers opting for the manual Maxima dropped every year
*** the last five years it was offered. Less than 5% of Maximas were sold with manuals
*** those last few model years. Those are FACTS. Those are REAL LIFE. I was one who
*** was disappointed Nissan could not Keep offering the manual Maxima, but it reached
*** the point where dealers would not accept manual Maximas from Nissan. Fact. My
*** 'so-called' logic about fuel economy does indeed bear out, as evidenced by federal
*** testing and the experiences of MANY drivers here on the 7th gen board. The ONLY
*** documentation you have provided are limited to one car, which most would say proves
*** virtually nothing. Does your experience with the ONE TIME you accelerated the 7th gen
*** Maxima prove all the testing and results of various testers and testing services wrong?
*** Their position (and mine) is not 'scientific logic crap', but simply factual data.
************************************************** ***********************
Per says:
So you are saying it's quite OK for plastic pieces to break, and for parts to be installed wrong? That's the attitude that got Detroit where they have been the last several years.
LOTH says:
************************************************** ***********************
*** I made no such statement. I simply said comparing the reliability problems with
*** your 6th gen and the 7th gen you have had contact with do not prove your statement
*** that the 7th gen quality is worse than the 6th gen, because it takes more than one
*** car to make any such reliability evaluations.
************************************************** ***********************
Per says:
You are totally twisting my argument around. What does average age of Maxima drivers have to do with anything in this context? Like Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations", and I know when I get past 80, I will no longer be looking for a manual tranny, and I doubt many others are at that age.
LOTH says:
************************************************** ***********************
*** If you look back at your posts, there have been subtle hints that automatics are for
*** older folks. It may be that most older folks prefer automatics, but THE MAJORITY of
*** YOUNGER folks were ALSO buying the Maxima with auto trannies the last few
*** decades. In today's congestion, the automatic is often a more PRACTICAL CHOICE.
************************************************** ***********************
Per says:
Look, I know you are happy with your 2010 Maxima, and I'm happy it works for you, but I've gotten over the new-car bug with my friend's Maxima, and I am just not that impressed. Mileage is no better than 6th Gen (More HP--less mileage if you use it), I had no problem not having enough power in my 4th Gen or my 6th Gen. Nissan quite simply did not build a car for my tastes in the 7th Gen.
LOTH says:
************************************************** ************************
*** Now we are getting to the crux of things. You simply prefer the 6th gen. Absolutely
*** nothing wrong with that. You have reached a conclusion on fuel efficiency that is not
*** in agreement with testing by the government, by magazine testers, and by drivers
*** here like me who have owned both generations, but if that makes you feel better,
*** then so be it. How you feel SHOULD be a very important factor in your choice.
************************************************** ************************
LOTH says:
************************************************** ********************
*** I'm very aware the CVT has been out for many decades, going back to that
*** rubber band Dutch car of yore. But as a PRACTICAL AND EFFECTIVE tranny, the
*** CVT is fairly new, and this redesigned CVT of the 7th gen Maxima is the
*** first CVT I felt was advanced enough to be acceptable for me. I am willing
*** to consider the CVT as a very efficient form of automatic tranny, and have
*** gradually come to appreciate the ways I have found to use it to best advantage.
************************************************** *********************
Per says:
You keep defending Nissan by bringing up these stories that I have found no factual basis for based on what I have seen here in San Antonio and other placed I looked at Maximas since the 6th Gen came out. Your so-called logic about better fuel economy does not bear out in real life as I have documented repeatedly. And the one time I asked for hard acceleration from the 2010 Max, it let me down, so don't give me the scientific logic crap!
LOTH says:
************************************************** *********************
*** You are evidently out of touch with the reality of Nissan's experience with trying
*** to sell the Maxima in manual form. Nissan offered a manual Maxima for 26 years,
*** and the percentage of buyers opting for the manual Maxima dropped every year
*** the last five years it was offered. Less than 5% of Maximas were sold with manuals
*** those last few model years. Those are FACTS. Those are REAL LIFE. I was one who
*** was disappointed Nissan could not Keep offering the manual Maxima, but it reached
*** the point where dealers would not accept manual Maximas from Nissan. Fact. My
*** 'so-called' logic about fuel economy does indeed bear out, as evidenced by federal
*** testing and the experiences of MANY drivers here on the 7th gen board. The ONLY
*** documentation you have provided are limited to one car, which most would say proves
*** virtually nothing. Does your experience with the ONE TIME you accelerated the 7th gen
*** Maxima prove all the testing and results of various testers and testing services wrong?
*** Their position (and mine) is not 'scientific logic crap', but simply factual data.
************************************************** ***********************
Per says:
So you are saying it's quite OK for plastic pieces to break, and for parts to be installed wrong? That's the attitude that got Detroit where they have been the last several years.
LOTH says:
************************************************** ***********************
*** I made no such statement. I simply said comparing the reliability problems with
*** your 6th gen and the 7th gen you have had contact with do not prove your statement
*** that the 7th gen quality is worse than the 6th gen, because it takes more than one
*** car to make any such reliability evaluations.
************************************************** ***********************
Per says:
You are totally twisting my argument around. What does average age of Maxima drivers have to do with anything in this context? Like Dirty Harry said, "A man's gotta know his limitations", and I know when I get past 80, I will no longer be looking for a manual tranny, and I doubt many others are at that age.
LOTH says:
************************************************** ***********************
*** If you look back at your posts, there have been subtle hints that automatics are for
*** older folks. It may be that most older folks prefer automatics, but THE MAJORITY of
*** YOUNGER folks were ALSO buying the Maxima with auto trannies the last few
*** decades. In today's congestion, the automatic is often a more PRACTICAL CHOICE.
************************************************** ***********************
Per says:
Look, I know you are happy with your 2010 Maxima, and I'm happy it works for you, but I've gotten over the new-car bug with my friend's Maxima, and I am just not that impressed. Mileage is no better than 6th Gen (More HP--less mileage if you use it), I had no problem not having enough power in my 4th Gen or my 6th Gen. Nissan quite simply did not build a car for my tastes in the 7th Gen.
LOTH says:
************************************************** ************************
*** Now we are getting to the crux of things. You simply prefer the 6th gen. Absolutely
*** nothing wrong with that. You have reached a conclusion on fuel efficiency that is not
*** in agreement with testing by the government, by magazine testers, and by drivers
*** here like me who have owned both generations, but if that makes you feel better,
*** then so be it. How you feel SHOULD be a very important factor in your choice.
************************************************** ************************
Last edited by lightonthehill; Aug 24, 2010 at 03:26 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 738
From: New Jersey
One thing I never understood with dropping the manual is this. If Nissan had such trouble selling manual trans models for so many years and thus discontinued it b/c of the cost of producing but not selling them (which makes sense), why is it, other manufacturers, like Acura for instance or Audi, reintroduce a manual option on special order? I mean, if nobody was getting or at least ordering a Maxima with a manual, why are other manufacturers still offering it, or reoffering it in one or some of their models?
Couldn't Nissan just do the same with the Maxima and make a manual option for special order only?
I'm just asking b/c so many people on here seem to make a big deal about the lack of manual option for the Maxima, even though I could care less, I'm just curious to find out why people think Nissan can't offer a special order option for a manual?
Couldn't Nissan just do the same with the Maxima and make a manual option for special order only?
I'm just asking b/c so many people on here seem to make a big deal about the lack of manual option for the Maxima, even though I could care less, I'm just curious to find out why people think Nissan can't offer a special order option for a manual?
Apples and Oranges, smarty666. By that I mean, if you want to make that comparison, you have to hold up Acura to Infiniti. Or go the other way and compare Honda to Nissan.
Which then has you rightly comparing the Maxima to the V6 Accord. And note that you can only get the manual transmission on the entry level Accord, not the V6.
Which then has you rightly comparing the Maxima to the V6 Accord. And note that you can only get the manual transmission on the entry level Accord, not the V6.
One thing I never understood with dropping the manual is this. If Nissan had such trouble selling manual trans models for so many years and thus discontinued it b/c of the cost of producing but not selling them (which makes sense), why is it, other manufacturers, like Acura for instance or Audi, reintroduce a manual option on special order? I mean, if nobody was getting or at least ordering a Maxima with a manual, why are other manufacturers still offering it, or reoffering it in one or some of their models?
Couldn't Nissan just do the same with the Maxima and make a manual option for special order only?
I'm just asking b/c so many people on here seem to make a big deal about the lack of manual option for the Maxima, even though I could care less, I'm just curious to find out why people think Nissan can't offer a special order option for a manual?
Couldn't Nissan just do the same with the Maxima and make a manual option for special order only?
I'm just asking b/c so many people on here seem to make a big deal about the lack of manual option for the Maxima, even though I could care less, I'm just curious to find out why people think Nissan can't offer a special order option for a manual?
The Accord V6 coupe can get a stick
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 738
From: New Jersey
Apples and Oranges, smarty666. By that I mean, if you want to make that comparison, you have to hold up Acura to Infiniti. Or go the other way and compare Honda to Nissan.
Which then has you rightly comparing the Maxima to the V6 Accord. And note that you can only get the manual transmission on the entry level Accord, not the V6.
Which then has you rightly comparing the Maxima to the V6 Accord. And note that you can only get the manual transmission on the entry level Accord, not the V6.
I used to feel the way you do that it was an unfair comparison b/c Nissan is not a luxury company but the size, features, and price point Nissan decided to charge and put on the Maxima makes it a premium big boy competitors to those other luxury division models. Not my decision, Nissan's!
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
Another factor to keep in mind is that such decisions are made several years ahead, and several years ago, Nissan was on the brink of bankruptcy, and was thankfully bailed out by Renault, which now owns a big chunk of Nissan.
Even the Accord limits the stick to entry level and the coupe, and there are probably FOUR TIMES as many Accords sold as there are 7th gen Maximas each year. The secret is in numbers. The more copies of a vehicle being sold, the easier it is to absorb the money involved in developing and producing a limited sales variation like a manual.
Even the Accord limits the stick to entry level and the coupe, and there are probably FOUR TIMES as many Accords sold as there are 7th gen Maximas each year. The secret is in numbers. The more copies of a vehicle being sold, the easier it is to absorb the money involved in developing and producing a limited sales variation like a manual.
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 133
From: San Antonio
One thing I never understood with dropping the manual is this. If Nissan had such trouble selling manual trans models for so many years and thus discontinued it b/c of the cost of producing but not selling them (which makes sense), why is it, other manufacturers, like Acura for instance or Audi, reintroduce a manual option on special order? I mean, if nobody was getting or at least ordering a Maxima with a manual, why are other manufacturers still offering it, or reoffering it in one or some of their models?
Couldn't Nissan just do the same with the Maxima and make a manual option for special order only?
I'm just asking b/c so many people on here seem to make a big deal about the lack of manual option for the Maxima, even though I could care less, I'm just curious to find out why people think Nissan can't offer a special order option for a manual?
Couldn't Nissan just do the same with the Maxima and make a manual option for special order only?
I'm just asking b/c so many people on here seem to make a big deal about the lack of manual option for the Maxima, even though I could care less, I'm just curious to find out why people think Nissan can't offer a special order option for a manual?
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 133
From: San Antonio
Light,
You keep claiming your assertions as fact, yet have no facts to back them up.
Apparetly, according to you, my 6th Gen Maxima gets far superior mileage to anybody elses, and my friend gets far inferior mileage to anybody else. Would you care to explain such anomalies?
The fact that automatic trannies are better for older folks have nothing to do with autos being preffered by younger folks as well. Nor is it a slight. Just a simple fact of life. My friend who died after his crash last year in his 97 (automatic) Maxima was barely able to drive, and would not have been able to drive with a stick. You may be able to still drive a stick and choose not to, which is your right, but most would agree driving ability decreases with age.
You keep claiming your assertions as fact, yet have no facts to back them up.
Apparetly, according to you, my 6th Gen Maxima gets far superior mileage to anybody elses, and my friend gets far inferior mileage to anybody else. Would you care to explain such anomalies?
The fact that automatic trannies are better for older folks have nothing to do with autos being preffered by younger folks as well. Nor is it a slight. Just a simple fact of life. My friend who died after his crash last year in his 97 (automatic) Maxima was barely able to drive, and would not have been able to drive with a stick. You may be able to still drive a stick and choose not to, which is your right, but most would agree driving ability decreases with age.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
Although I did not get my driver's license until 1949, I had already been driving tractor trailers around my uncle's trucking lot for years, moving them from one warehouse to another, and backing them to the loading dock, etc. Those semis were all manual, as were my first two cars and a few vehicles after that.
I found that driving manual trannies is a simple task for anyone who is in good health and who understands transmissions. I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles in manual tranny cars, and still sometimes drive my daughter's manual 1996 Camry. I don't anticipate ever having any difficulty driving a manual tranny as long as my health holds out.
But, although my daughter and her oldest daughter much prefer a manual, they readily admit they just like the fun of shifting, and understand manuals are no longer the most efficient tranny, and are no fun in gridlocked traffic.
My son-in-law races cars on weekends, and his racer is a manual. But he prefers an automatic in his BMW because he sits in Atlanta traffic every day.
My son has worked on cars since he rebuilt a '67 Camaro convertible and a '69 Camaro hardtop over thirty years ago, and loved manuals until he had to commute. He now has an automatic in his commuter - an Acura TL.
Yes, folks often switch to automatics as they grow older. But that is often more a function of practicality, situation and common sense than any reduced ability to drive a manual.
I found I was shifting gears approximately 800 times on the way to work in my '78 Datsun 200SX, and 800 more times on the way home. 18 miles and over an hour each way. That is not fun. That is simply 'make-work' with no resulting feeling of having accomplished a thing. I decided there are far more practical ways to have fun than driving a manual on a jammed roadway.
And this decision had NOTHING to do with my PHYSICAL AGE, but a great deal to do with my MENTAL APPROACH to practicality.
This morning I took the long, less-efficient side-road approach to work, rather than the highway, specifically so that I could enjoy the manual transmission... instead of just getting on the highway and coasting in 6th gear.
My point being, sometimes it works both ways.
My point being, sometimes it works both ways.
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 133
From: San Antonio
LOTH says:
I made no such statement. I simply said comparing the reliability problems with your 6th gen and the 7th gen you have had contact with do not prove your statement that the 7th gen quality is worse than the 6th gen, because it takes more than one car to make any such reliability evaluations.
I made no such statement. I simply said comparing the reliability problems with your 6th gen and the 7th gen you have had contact with do not prove your statement that the 7th gen quality is worse than the 6th gen, because it takes more than one car to make any such reliability evaluations.
LOTH says:
Now we are getting to the crux of things. You simply prefer the 6th gen. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. You have reached a conclusion on fuel efficiency that is not in agreement with testing by the government, by magazine testers, and by drivers here like me who have owned both generations, but if that makes you feel better, then so be it. How you feel SHOULD be a very important factor in your choice.
Now we are getting to the crux of things. You simply prefer the 6th gen. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. You have reached a conclusion on fuel efficiency that is not in agreement with testing by the government, by magazine testers, and by drivers here like me who have owned both generations, but if that makes you feel better, then so be it. How you feel SHOULD be a very important factor in your choice.
I subscribe to all the major car magazines, and I haven't seen any magazine do a mileage test of the Maxima CVT vs. a manual. Do you have a reference? Also few drivers keep a log of their mileage, and some don't know how to figure mileage and some don't bother. Do you have mileage logs of your old and new Maximas?
In the meantime, if you want scientific, tell me how using the same driver, same roads, same speeds would not give you a reasonably accurate result? Mileage indicators on both cars are close, within a few tenths, as checked on fill-ups, so please tell me how the results could be that far off.
Anybody can achieve high mileage numbers by going 45MPH on the highway, but comparisons need to be made at real highway speeds.
Last edited by Per; Aug 27, 2010 at 09:25 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
I never said anything about comparing 6th gen quality with 7th Gen quality. Since I did not buy my 6th gen new, I have no idea what warranty issues the previous owner may have had. So far I have not had any issues with it. However, with 5 quality issues on her 2010 Maxima in less than a year, you're darn tootin' I don't think highly of the 7th Gen quality, and neither does my friend. These are issues that should not have happened, and reflect poor workmanship, inferior quality control, and cheap materials. You would have to prove to me these things were unique to her car.
The government does not test fuel efficiency--it is done my each manufaturer. I take little stock in EPA numbers except for rough comparisons. I have had cars, such as my 1988 CR-X and 1996 Maxima that would easily exceed EPA highway numbers, and I have had cars, such as our 1988 Cadillac Brougham that could only achieve the highway EPA number with a 40 MPH tailwind. You do realize EPA numbers are published by car salesmen, right?
I subscribe to all the major car magazines, and I haven't seen any magazine do a mileage test of the Maxima CVT vs. a manual. Do you have a reference? Also few drivers keep a log of their mileage, and some don't know how to figure mileage and some don't bother. Do you have mileage logs of your old and new Maximas?
In the meantime, if you want scientific, tell me how using the same driver, same roads, same speeds would not give you a reasonably accurate result? Mileage indicators on both cars are close, within a few tenths, as checked on fill-ups, so please tell me how the results could be that far off.
Anybody can achieve high mileage numbers by going 45MPH on the highway, but comparisons need to be made at real highway speeds.
The government does not test fuel efficiency--it is done my each manufaturer. I take little stock in EPA numbers except for rough comparisons. I have had cars, such as my 1988 CR-X and 1996 Maxima that would easily exceed EPA highway numbers, and I have had cars, such as our 1988 Cadillac Brougham that could only achieve the highway EPA number with a 40 MPH tailwind. You do realize EPA numbers are published by car salesmen, right?
I subscribe to all the major car magazines, and I haven't seen any magazine do a mileage test of the Maxima CVT vs. a manual. Do you have a reference? Also few drivers keep a log of their mileage, and some don't know how to figure mileage and some don't bother. Do you have mileage logs of your old and new Maximas?
In the meantime, if you want scientific, tell me how using the same driver, same roads, same speeds would not give you a reasonably accurate result? Mileage indicators on both cars are close, within a few tenths, as checked on fill-ups, so please tell me how the results could be that far off.
Anybody can achieve high mileage numbers by going 45MPH on the highway, but comparisons need to be made at real highway speeds.
As I stated before, I had around half a dozen problems with my '04 (some serious) early on, while I have had ZERO problems with my '09. But, unlike you, I don't let my experiences with one car from each of these two generations tell me anything about the relative reliability of these generations.
Sites like Michael Koresh's and mags like Consumer Reports look at large groups of each car in each model year, and are far more meaningful. So far, the 6th and 7th gens are rather similar in reliability. Your judgement based on one car from each gen is strictly your way to judge, but bears no relationship to the true reliability of these two generations.
As to fuel mileage, of course the actual tests are not run by the government, and are to be eyed with considerable suspicion. The government sets the standards, but the car manufacturers do the testing.
There are far two many variables to make any definitive MPG statement between one '04 and one '09. I get pretty much the same MPG with my '09 as I did with my '04, EXCEPT on long freeway trips on fairly level ground. In that one instance, I get better efficiency with my '09 CVT because of the way I watch the RPMs. You said that was something you weren't interested in doing. That is your perrogative. You are doubtless in the majority there. But there are a few of us drivers who feel close to our car, and who enjoy every nuance we might find to exploit.
The important thing here is the CVT has enabled Nissan to give the Maxima a signigicant 35 more HP with certainly no loss in MPG. That is, for me, a very noteworthy achievement.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
But one thing we do know; once this baby is rolling, this shiftless CVT allows the car to pick up speed so quick it takes my breath away.
Several posters here on the ORG have gotten HIGHER than 30 MPG on long freeway trips in their 7th gen, but my long freeway trips usually result in 29 or 30 MPG. Which is better than I ever got in 26 years of owning nothing but Maximas, and my earlier Maximas were lighter and had less power. This 7th gen is REALLY impressive.
I do get what you are saying about passing power, not getting stuck in a gear where you are only at 3500 rpms when the transmission downshifts and having to wait for 4000+ to get a strong pull does show the limitations (and folly) of Nissan's choice of a 4 speed automatic for 5.5 gen cars. The only real way for me to correct that issue is with a higher stall torque converter-had one in my Chevelle and they do sort of mimic what a CVT does. I had a 4000 stall converter and when I would punch it, no matter what gear, if I would have been under 4000 rpms previous, I'd be instantly at 4000 rpms and pulling a lot harder than I otherwise would have-good choice considering the cam I was using didn't have much under 3500 rpms-something like a 98 hp gain between 3000 to 4000!
The main problem I see for hard core enthusiasts with respects to the CVT is the off the line performance. The other 98% of the people buying 7th gen cars should be pretty happy.
Would have been nice if Nissan had put a 6 speed in the 7th gens but they aren't so either you learn to like the CVT or get something else, I guess. Could be Nissan figures a car enthusiast will go with a 6 speed G35 instead of a Maxima since it is rear wheel drive.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
They do have to crash test any manual cars as well, if only 2% of Maxima drivers were getting the manual (no idea what the real number is), that is an awful small segment to have to certify via crash testing, EPA, etc.
Would have been nice if Nissan had put a 6 speed in the 7th gens but they aren't so either you learn to like the CVT or get something else, I guess. Could be Nissan figures a car enthusiast will go with a 6 speed G35 instead of a Maxima since it is rear wheel drive.
Would have been nice if Nissan had put a 6 speed in the 7th gens but they aren't so either you learn to like the CVT or get something else, I guess. Could be Nissan figures a car enthusiast will go with a 6 speed G35 instead of a Maxima since it is rear wheel drive.
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
Are you going by what the car says you are getting or doing the actual math? My '02 was showing 30.2 over a 414 mile stretch where I averaged 79 mph (80 mph limit in west Texas and 75 in New Mexico and Arizona) but dividing the number of gallons it took to fill the tank vs miles driven, the actual mileage was 26.3. I've found the trip computer to be consistently 3-4 mpg optimistic. Honestly, considering my car is rated at 26 mpg freeway and I slightly exceeded that while averaging 79 mph, I was actually pretty happy.
I do get what you are saying about passing power, not getting stuck in a gear where you are only at 3500 rpms when the transmission downshifts and having to wait for 4000+ to get a strong pull does show the limitations (and folly) of Nissan's choice of a 4 speed automatic for 5.5 gen cars. The only real way for me to correct that issue is with a higher stall torque converter-had one in my Chevelle and they do sort of mimic what a CVT does. I had a 4000 stall converter and when I would punch it, no matter what gear, if I would have been under 4000 rpms previous, I'd be instantly at 4000 rpms and pulling a lot harder than I otherwise would have-good choice considering the cam I was using didn't have much under 3500 rpms-something like a 98 hp gain between 3000 to 4000!
The main problem I see for hard core enthusiasts with respects to the CVT is the off the line performance. The other 98% of the people buying 7th gen cars should be pretty happy.
I do get what you are saying about passing power, not getting stuck in a gear where you are only at 3500 rpms when the transmission downshifts and having to wait for 4000+ to get a strong pull does show the limitations (and folly) of Nissan's choice of a 4 speed automatic for 5.5 gen cars. The only real way for me to correct that issue is with a higher stall torque converter-had one in my Chevelle and they do sort of mimic what a CVT does. I had a 4000 stall converter and when I would punch it, no matter what gear, if I would have been under 4000 rpms previous, I'd be instantly at 4000 rpms and pulling a lot harder than I otherwise would have-good choice considering the cam I was using didn't have much under 3500 rpms-something like a 98 hp gain between 3000 to 4000!
The main problem I see for hard core enthusiasts with respects to the CVT is the off the line performance. The other 98% of the people buying 7th gen cars should be pretty happy.
The CVT is definitely an average performer off the line, but solid otherwise. Fortunately, I am not a jack-rabbit driver off the line, so have no problem with that. I have so much fun driving this 7th gen.
I love the sporty 'compression braking' Nissan added to the 6th gen autotrans and the 7th gen CVT. As I start down a slope with my foot off the gas, Nissan has the tranny use engine compression to hold the car back. The RPMs jump from around 1200 to match the car's speed. As I was coasting down a slope at around 35 MPH Sunday, the RPMs jumped instantly from 1200 to 2800, and the car felt like the brakes had been applied. This compression kept the car around 35 MPH all the way down the hill.
But when the car reached level ground at the bottom of the hill, without me doing a thing, the tranny released the compression braking, the car began to roll freely again, and the RPMs dropped back to 1200. This feature can be overriden by simply keeping a little pressure on the gas pedal, so the car will know to not use engine compression braking.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
Never have had any issue with CVT. I'm very appreciative of the smoothness/no shift shock, and I think the simulated gear shifts in manual mode are extremely crisp and do a great job of mimicking the effects of a geared auto tranny.
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 1,341
From: state of confusion
I have to laugh a little about the 'shift shock' part of all this. Mfrs went to great lengths to soften it in their conventional automatics, and it's an indication of good coordination and skill when you don't get it when shifting a manual tranny.
Now that it can be done away with entirely - people miss it and want it back.
Then again, what do I know . . .
Norm
Now that it can be done away with entirely - people miss it and want it back.
Then again, what do I know . . .
Norm
Member
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 133
From: San Antonio
As I stated before, I had around half a dozen problems with my '04 (some serious) early on, while I have had ZERO problems with my '09. But, unlike you, I don't let my experiences with one car from each of these two generations tell me anything about the relative reliability of these generations.
Sites like Michael Koresh's and mags like Consumer Reports look at large groups of each car in each model year, and are far more meaningful. So far, the 6th and 7th gens are rather similar in reliability. Your judgement based on one car from each gen is strictly your way to judge, but bears no relationship to the true reliability of these two generations.
As to fuel mileage, of course the actual tests are not run by the government, and are to be eyed with considerable suspicion. The government sets the standards, but the car manufacturers do the testing.
There are far two many variables to make any definitive MPG statement between one '04 and one '09. I get pretty much the same MPG with my '09 as I did with my '04, EXCEPT on long freeway trips on fairly level ground. In that one instance, I get better efficiency with my '09 CVT because of the way I watch the RPMs. You said that was something you weren't interested in doing. That is your perrogative. You are doubtless in the majority there. But there are a few of us drivers who feel close to our car, and who enjoy every nuance we might find to exploit.
The important thing here is the CVT has enabled Nissan to give the Maxima a signigicant 35 more HP with certainly no loss in MPG. That is, for me, a very noteworthy achievement.
Sites like Michael Koresh's and mags like Consumer Reports look at large groups of each car in each model year, and are far more meaningful. So far, the 6th and 7th gens are rather similar in reliability. Your judgement based on one car from each gen is strictly your way to judge, but bears no relationship to the true reliability of these two generations.
As to fuel mileage, of course the actual tests are not run by the government, and are to be eyed with considerable suspicion. The government sets the standards, but the car manufacturers do the testing.
There are far two many variables to make any definitive MPG statement between one '04 and one '09. I get pretty much the same MPG with my '09 as I did with my '04, EXCEPT on long freeway trips on fairly level ground. In that one instance, I get better efficiency with my '09 CVT because of the way I watch the RPMs. You said that was something you weren't interested in doing. That is your perrogative. You are doubtless in the majority there. But there are a few of us drivers who feel close to our car, and who enjoy every nuance we might find to exploit.
The important thing here is the CVT has enabled Nissan to give the Maxima a signigicant 35 more HP with certainly no loss in MPG. That is, for me, a very noteworthy achievement.
As far as mileage goes, you are confusing driving styles with vehicle performance, which is irrelevant in a discussion of comparative vehicle performance. The only way to compare is to compare under like conditions, which I have done several times. The recent trip from San Antonio to Las Vegas and back in the friend's 2010 resulted in 2-3 MPG less than the same trip we took in my 2006 a couple of months earlier.
If you feel close to your car by watching the RPMs, more power to you. I feel close to my car by watching the RPMs and actually interfacing with it by rowing a stick. Being a sedan with a manual transmission is what drew me to the Maxima in 1995. Now it's become a middle-of-the-pack sedan in a highly competitive market.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 611
From: Staten Island, NY
Love the cvt trans, I had a 4spd auto in my 03 impala, and damn, when you needed power, the transmission downshifting would jerk the car so hard, the car would pause for a split second then, bam just fly! Torque Steer was an understatement for that thing.
Newbie - Just Registered
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12
From: Y'all aint from these parts are ya now?
CVT TCM Software Update
There is a TSB for the CVT - NTB09-138 that reprograms the TCM. It's primary fix is described below, but it also greatly improves throttle and transmission responsiveness, and gets rid of the "lag" feel in the low rev range. I had it applied to my 2010, and there has been a huge improvment in the behavior of the CVT. I was luke-warm about the CVT before, but this software update has radically changed the feel, and better manages the rpms within the engine's torque range both in regular CVT and sport mode.
APPLIED VEHICLE:
2009 – 2010 MAXIMA; BOOMING NOISE OR VIBRATION
APPLIED VEHICLE:
2009 - 2010 Maxima (A35)
IF YOU CONFIRM:
There is a booming noise and/or vibration when
all of the following conditions are present:
• Speed between 20 and 45 mph
and
• Transmission is in "lock-up"
and
• Engine RPM between 1200 and 1500
and
• Light acceleration
all of the following conditions are present:
• Speed between 20 and 45 mph
and
• Transmission is in "lock-up"
and
• Engine RPM between 1200 and 1500
and
• Light acceleration
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,143
From: a meadow south of Atlanta
You are missing the mark here. My 7th gen was built in Sept of 2008, and I have owned it almost two years. I am already looking ahead to the 7 1/2 gen in 10 months, and the 8th gen in around 31 months. Moreover, I drove a 6th gen for five years and loved it. Without meaning to put you down or say anything mean, I honestly feel I may be in better better position to compare the 6th and 7th gens than you are.