There is a distinction between Flagship and Halo car. I thought that was widely known.

I appreciate that statement. Not many will admit to that or even look past their biased perception to say as much.

What is the distinction?

Not hardly that this is the language bible, but here's Wikipedia... just because:(edit) It seems lightonthehill answers that sufficiently below. That makes sense, Mr. Hill.

Not the same relationship. The Corvette could be considered Chevy's 'flagship' car because it is a legendary vehicle known around the world, and has been in existance longer than most posters here. There are probably over a million Corvettes in existance. I see them fairly frequently.

The GT-R is more a 'halo' car, intended to show Nissan's capability in building high performance sports cars. It is being built in very limited quantities, and although they are for sale (at a very steep price), I have never even seen a single one on the street. They are more a 'collector's item' than a transportation vehicle.

The Maxima is Nissan's flagship. And in case there might be those who consider the Z as the Nissan flagship, Nissan corrects that misconception by advertising the Maxima as their flagship.

No problem. I can respect "nuance" in the driving experience, even if my left foot gets itchy.

Of course, you'd still have to pry the 6MT shifter out of my cold, dead hands.

really? i always saw the Z cars as the flagship for Nissan. im going to look into this.

EDIT: ....yeah i guess you guys are right, the maxima is Nissan's flagship car. doesn't make sense to me cause the famous Z has been around longer and has more of a racing history. weird.

...what Rochester said...

........while the above statement makes sense,....re-checking wiki and a few other sites, the "Halo" effect is a "cause and effect" related to the term Flagship car. not two different entities.

My grad school professor once warned me about using wiki as a main source .

Anyway Light is correct. Flagship and Halo are two different entities. Another great example...The Lexus LS is the Flagship for Lexus...BUT Lexus's Halo car is now the Lexus LFA.

Even the higher end car manufacturers use the Halo car concept. Porsche for example...their Flagship car is of course the 911...BUT their Halo is the Carrera GT (well until the 918 Spyder releases).

Of course people who think exclusively in HP and Pound Feet, 0-60's, 1/4 Miles and G's may lean towards the 350Z as being Nissan's Flagship, when in all reality it is the Maxima.

Flagships aren't usually the fastest or the sportiest of the brand. Examples, Toyota Avalon (Camry SE is sportier), Lexus LS (GS 400 is sportier, ISF is faster and sportier, LFA...nuff said), Caddilac STS/XTS (CTS-V craps on the STS as far as speed, performance, and sportiness), Mazda 6 (MazdaSpeed 3 is sportier and I think faster, definitely handles better).

Yes, the Z was around in the very early 1970s. I remember the 240Z and the 260Z very well. From the beginning, I considered the Z to be extremely well-styled and fun to drive.

But the Maxima was around during the 1970s in a way, but badged as the Datsun 810 until 1981, and the Datsun Maxima until 1984. I loved the Datsun 810, and tried to buy one in '77, but had two kids starting college, so settled for a '78 Datsun 200SX with 5 speed manual. That was a fun car.

As to racing history, many (if not most) manufacturers do not equate racing with the term flagship. I certainly would not be taking an Avalon or Lexus LS (or even a Maxima) to the race track.

Ahhhh..... I love this thread. And you know YOU do too.

wow, nice to hear some history. After reading your post I went to research the models you talked about. Seems from the very beginning they were marketing the 810 as a sporty near luxury car. Well after 30 years not much has changed from that aspect.

I distinctly remember the first year the 3rd Gens came out. There was this drug dealer in my neighborhood in Brooklyn that had a spanking new White SE. I didn't want to be like him, but I sure wanted a car like him .

Description:
1978 Datsun 810 Sedan original vintage advertisement. The world's most underpriced luxury sedan. The list of luxury appointments is impressive, extensive and standard.
B & W
Color Photo


If you squint you can see the features for it. Cost $12,000 back then. I ran that figure through an inflation calculator and that is equivalent to $41k these days. If they had message boards back then I could only imagine what they'd be saying. Lol and oh in the ad Car and Driver says it's the next best thing to the 530i I bet people were up in arms about that.

The second ad says "Suddenly there's a family car that performs like a 240 Z"... So the whole 4DSC concept has ALWAYS been a part of the marketing of Max's. Interesting.

I wish you had directed this comment against the member who actually asked the question. The key point in my reply to killa's post was that he had just barely scratched the surface of what would be involved. The rest was just a few details off the top of my head to back up my point.


Just so you know, no one ever has. I never have bought a new car with anything but a manual transmission, and there have been exactly zero AT cars "hiding in the background" by reason of being titled in my wife's name. The three AT cars that I have owned happened because 40 - 45 years ago all I could only afford was $200 private-sale cars, and what was available came with AT.

Even though I do not own a 7th Gen (I still own a 5th/20AE), I enjoy the discussion here more than most of what shows up in the 5th Gen forum.



Norm

Amen to that. Sometimes I think I should buy a 2010, just so that I can get out of the 5th gen forum. The grinning idiots are starting to outnumber the adults in the room.

If only my modified 2003 was somehow less fun to drive.

Well I don't see that happening for awhile. I remember driving an unmodded 5th Gen between Bakersfield CA and Fresno CA roundtrip. Only 100 or so miles but I burned that up while frequently hitting the 90's. I remember how strong that sucker would pull from like 60 mph on up to the 90's...oooh weee what fun times. Factor in how my then wife (now ex) "forced" me to pull over at the truck stop to top off her fluids and I have some really fun memories in the 5th Gen Maxima

Sorry Norm. I was trying to agree with your post as well as ask Kam a question. I am fully aware of your stance on MT option cars, as well as cars without, and I am sure the rest of us in this thread do too . I would never ask such a silly question of you.


Anywhos, just in case my question was missed....

Kam, why would you want to go to all the trouble of swapping a 6 speed tranny into a car that is not designed for it? Everything that Norm listed on the last page are all very valid examples of issues that will arise. It will never be just as simple as it used to be. For me, if I really wanted another MT car I would have shopped for one. Like I said no one made you buy the Maxima. I just can't see the upside to buying a car like the Maxima and ripping out a tranny that is covered for 10 years just to have a transmission you could have bought under warranty in a different car. Again, for me, a warranty is a pretty big deal. Maybe that is just me though

What specific types of programming algorithms would be different for the CVT compared to a 6MT?

I can think of one- when the engine throttle decreases for a split second when commanding a 'manual' shift with the CVT.

I believe that programming the engine's operating parameters to play nice with the CVT is akin to the cart leading the horse.

Any or all of these

Idle speed/fueling/ignition timing
Acceleration enrichment
Possibly knock sensing
Manual transmission upshifts these days tend to involve the ECU holding the engine rpms up briefly for emissions reasons (reduce HC spikes)
Torque management/traction control
Stability control
ABS


Norm

what! there are a few here in Orange County, Ca. they're pretty.. Ooo weee!!

The predominant attraction of the LA area is the total absence of normality. The mere fact you see GT-Rs in the LA area would indicate there may be very few of those scattered around the rest of the country. If GT-Rs were common across the country, then they would no longer fit the LA lifestyle.

If you have read this far, you probably know I'm sort of kidding. I say 'sort of' because I lived in the LA area twice, so you can understand where I am coming from. Thank goodness we have LA; we need LA. But THANK OUR LUCKY STARS we only have ONE LA.

I couldn't imagine light, a man who doesn't even own a cell phone, living in LA. Although a man without a cellphone living in LA is not normal at all and I guess by not being normal then it fits the LA lifestile you were reffering to. Wow... Deep...

I don't own a cell phone. I also don't wear a watch.

yea you're right unfortunately.

Well I know one thing for sure,

























Nissan cant use SHIFT_ anymore in their ads

If you look closely it says, It took Datsun to build a car for half of that price (12,000) Meaning it was 6,000.....

Sun dial??

If I need the time, I'll ask someone. Great ice breaker.

Schedule freedom. Free the Whales.

LAis not normal, but that doesn't mean the rest of the world is normal. lol >.<

I can understand the watch part. I have a dozen plus fine watches as they are somthing I enjoy to collect. I only wear them on occations ( church, wedding, ect.) 95% of the time I am without a watch myself. As the popularity of cell phones have grown and the convenience there of having the time right in your pocket watches are becoming more and more just a dress accessory. And as time goes on cell phones have become more and more a necessary evil. You will see the number of land lines go down as well because people figure they don't need one if they own a cell phone and see it as just an extra bill. As I have told light in the past, I envy you not having to be tied to a cell phone. What a peacful life it must bring

ohh yea... And free the whales

Well, it isn't that easy. We have two land line numbers, and getting on the 'no-call' list does not restrict political calls, so the 16 robo political calls Monday (the day before the primaries) translated into 32 annoying automated phone calls.

I should make one small correction. My wife and I have each had cell phones for 17 years so that our security company can reach us instantly, and so we can find each other during the few times we are not together. Nobody else has our numbers except our adult son and our adult daughter for use in emergencies. We are on a special plan with very low overhead, but costing around 50 cents a minute, so the phones are always on, but almost never used.

I have used mine mostly to call 911 (free call) around two dozen times over the 17 years I have had the phone (mostly when I witnessed accidents or breakins or suspicious activity). But the phone rings so seldom that when it finally does ring, I often mistake it for an approaching ice cream truck playing its little jingle. That is peaceful.

Speaking of 'free the whales', I saw on TV today where a 40 foot whale leaped from the water and came down on the deck of a large fishing vessel in the Atlantic Ocean. The whale flopped around, knocking down the mast, tearing up other equipment, and making the ship inoperable before finally flopping back into the water.

Maybe the creed should be 'Free us from the whales.'

Enjoying it why it lasts. My 10 year old is constantly begging for a phone, and will probably get one in the next few years. When that happens, the whole family will get cell phones, and we'll dump the land line. I'm somewhat looking forward to playing with a new toy, while at the same time dreading becoming part of something I disdain. But as long as I refrain from this stoopid texting fad, I'm sure I'll survive.

BTW, guys, "Free the Whales" has nothing to do with whales. That's just my sense of humor, mocking forum linguistics.

My wife and I both have cell phones, but probably wouldn't had our son not added them to his own plan. Pretty basic phones, as all we really need them for is to talk on. That said, I've used the little camera on mine a few times, edited contacts, and have texted just enough to figure out how.

It's easy enough to avoid being enslaved by them – they do come with a means of turning them off, and can be set to vibrate instead of ring. You don't have to answer them if you're driving or in any place where you would be remote from all land lines. The other party will have to sit tight and be patient just like if they were still calling your land line and got no answer.


It's really easy to resist using cell phones while driving if your car has a manual transmission and you're in traffic . . . . .

(for this thread in particular you did see that coming, didn't you? )


Norm

Honestly, no. I didn't see that coming.

We have laws in NY about driving while using a cell phone or texting. It's pretty much unenforced, and one of the few things that make me go insane when I see other people doing it. Since that's about half the driving population, peace of mind can be elusive at times.

Got interrupted. Here's what you missed.

We keep the land line specifically to avoid having to field business calls on weekends or trips and from people that we really don't ever want to talk to but who do occasionally have valid reason to call the house.


Same thing in NJ, same level of compliance.


Norm

I'm going to eat a bit of crow here as I believe I've uncovered a bit of information relating to our "slow speed from a stand-still" discussion earlier.

I was parusing the LAN section of the FSM for our 7th gens investigating the possibilities of going to a color screen from a monochrome for that other thread and stumbled upon a little snippet of information.

The information was an example of the symptoms should the TCM CAN line be shorted or otherwise disrupted. The symptom was "engine torque limiting may be affected".

Take that as you will, I believe, after reading that snippet that there is indeed some algorithm somewhere in the software that limits the engines torque. Now, that doesn't mean it's at 0 speed or at some limiting speed well over 100 or even during the simulated shifts.

All I'm admitting to here is that there is some software in the programming in our 7th gens that can limit torque in some situation.



I'm now going to snoop through the "Engine Control" section of the FSM and hope to find something that will provide me the oppurtunity to spit out that crow.

Oh my... this was fun to watch!

Rochester - I enjoyed that manual snippet. Thanks.

guess what i saw today.. well i see this everyday.. but i got the pix. lol. like the trees?

yes.. i know windows were diirrtty..but u like the trees? and the SUNSHINE!! oOO! PERFFECCTT day to CRUISE!!

CYNTHiA - Very nice! I have seen pictures of this baby in brochures and mags, but, other than those publications, the only GT-Rs I have ever seen are the one permanently displayed in my dealer's showroom and the one in your photo. And, being retired, I am on the road quite a bit.

But then I suppose LA would be where we would expect the unexpected. Thanks for the pic!