I can only repeat what I have told you three times in this thread:

My 6th gen had half a dozen defects (some serious) when I bought it. But I did NOT make the mistake of using those defects on that one car to pronounce the 6th gen Maxima as having poor quality. Subsequent experience for thousands of 6th gen drivers proved I was wise to not make that mistaken pronouncement. The 6th gen is a reliable car.

Yet you ARE making that mistaken pronouncement that the 7th gen has poor quality based on the problems with only one car. I have had no problems whatsoever with my 7th gen, and the three reliability rating services I usually look at support my position that the 7th gen has better than average quality.

In case that comparison is not clear, all I can say is that common sense tells us we cannot accurately judge the reliability of 70,000 7th gen Maximas based on our experiences with only one car.

 

The Maxima was not mentioned in the May, June, July, August or September issues of CR, and the October issue is still a few weeks away. CR does not give cars 'road test' scores. They give OVERALL scores.

In CR's April 2010 Annual Auto Issue, the Maxima was rated 5th in the Upscale Sedan section, but that was based on lots of factors, many not related to road testing. But a wise person looks MUCH MUCH deeper than just CR's overall rating.

Detail #1 - The Maxima was priced lower than the four cars rated ahead of it.

Detail #2 - The top rated Genesis has had a problem with an unsettled ride. I have read that complain by mag testers. An unsettled ride is the last thing I want on a long freeway trip. I experienced that with my '70 Cutlass, and grew to hate it.

Detail #3 - The second rated Lexus LS 350 was criticized by CR for lackluster handling and several other things. But lackluster handling and the Lexus/Toyota runaway problem trumps everything else here.

Detail #4 - The third rated Toyota Avalon was criticized by CU for lackluster handling, but lackluster handling and the Lexus/Toyota runaway problem takes this car out of contention.

Detail #5 - The fourth rated TL was criticized by CU for poor rear seat room, small trunk opening, and poor steering feel. I personally downgraded it for cramped side-to-side cabin space and unacceptable front grille.

Detail #6 - CR downgrades the 7th gen Maxima for tighter back seat room than the 6th gen. Valid complaint. No argument from me. CR downgrades the Maxima for overly light steering at low speeds. I haven't noticed that, so can't comment on that. My biggest complaint on the 7th gen Maxima was not mentioned by CR. I feel this car has poor rear vision. Had I not been able to overcome that poor rear vision with a very good rear view camera, I would have had to pass on the Maxima.

When the 7th gen Maxima was actually tested by CU around a year and a half ago, they downgraded it for exposed bolts and screws in the cabin. I have yet to see any such thing in my Maxima, even though I have looked.

For those who know nothing about cars, CR is a great place to find a ready-made decision. But for those who have been heavy into cars for a lifetime, CR is a starting point on which to begin our research. What CR says about things that are important for me are useful. But there are things that are very important to me that CR does not rate. One such thing is styling, and for me, the Maxima styling tops those other contenders hands-down. Others will of course feel differently.

In a nutshell, the more research I do, the happier I am that I chose the 7th gen Maxima.

 

Interesting notes from the second page of the TSB - which customer MUST be informed about before performing the TSB:

Customer Information
1. Slight noise and/or vibration under the conditions described above are a normal operating characteristic of this vehicle and are within design specifications for the vehicle.
2. For those customers who are particularly sensitive to this characteristic of their vehicles, the transmission control module reprogramming procedure described in this bulletin may be performed. However, the customer should be advised that this is a specification change and differs from the original specification that exists on their vehicle.
3. If a customer voluntarily chooses to have this specification change made to their vehicle, they should be advised that their actual MPG may (or may not) slightly decrease (up to 1 mpg) as a result, depending on their driving habits and other conditions.

So - apparently they can change the programming to include better off the line throttle response - but want you to know that your mileage will likely suffer.

 

I feel that is an informative and fair warning from Nissan. For some here, the instantaneous throttle response will be worth the possible slight drop in MPG. For others, the OEM setup will still be fine. Nice to have a choice.

 

I think if I had that reflash done that I'd be very diligent thereafter about reminding service writers that it had been done, and not to install a different reflash without my specific permission. I think I'd specifically mention that I knew that this TSB represented a specification change and that I didn't want it reset back to the normal OE spec.


Norm

 

So your saying there is a "re-program" that Nissan will do that will increase takeoff speeds and in turn slightly decrease MPG and it will not void Amy warranty?? Am I understanding this right?

 

The fall weather is beginning to come here in NJ and I'm excited b/c that means best gas mileage of the year is slowly coming back now till the middle of Nov!!!

It will be nice to get back up to those 27 and 28 mpg avgs!! Go CVT!

 

Sorry,

You are just plain wrong! On page 62 of the October CR, they rate by "overall road test score". Like I said, the 7th Gen Maxima is in nith place by their rating. I also subscribe to the major car magazines, and I've yet to see a report on the Maxima better than luke-warm. Of course, they all worship at the altar of the BMW. CR tends to make more realistic evaluations of cars, instead of spending most of the time on a race track. CR is actually kinder to the Maxima than the major car magazines.
Nissan needs to forget about the 4DSC, and make it a sporty luxury car with decent rear legroom, and bring back the luxuries they stripped from previous models.

 

Like usual, you're big on statements but short on facts. Common sense shows that so far you've only presented one car as a testament to reliability, so, so far, we have 50% good, 50% bad. You're going to have to prove to my friend that her car is the exception. Right now she is pretty disgusted with her car, and I can't say I blame her! Her issues shows the folks at the Smyrna plant did not do what they were supposed to do, and I find it extremely unlikely her car is the only one. The last time I ran into a new car with this many problems was when my parents bought a 1968 Cougar, and they I and have been through a lot of cars since then!

 

Where did you find a copy of the October issue of CR? They aren't on the newsstands around where I live. You first referenced it a week ago, and since my issues always arrive in the middle of the previous month, I had no ideal there were folks getting them a month before the cover date. That hurts my feelings, since I have been a subscriber for exactly 50 years this year. I don't expect my copy for another week or so.

 

You have it exactly backwards, per.

YOU were the one who made the judgement the 7th gen had poor quality control because of the problems with one car. I am the one who, although I had problems with my '04, DID NOT let the problems I had with that one car cause me to pass judgement on the quality control of all '04s.

I repeat for the FIFTH time, it doesn't matter if the fenders and wheels fall off your friend's car, you cannot logically use one car to make a judgement of an entire generation of cars. A simple check of almost any published reliability ratings based on thousands on each of these two generations proves that.

 

I have the test reports from major mags stashed away in the storage room, but just happened to have Motor Trend's test (August 2008 issue) of the 7th gen here at the PC. They like the 7th gen Maxima:

'While other cars have grown to accomodate an 'expanding' audience, the new Maxima is primed for responsiveness.'

' . . a sedan thats far more lithe and artful than its homogenized predecessor . . .'

'The restyled cockpit is nothing short of gorgeous'

'If you replaced the Nissan badge with an Infiniti badge, it's doubtful anyone would notice.'

'Engine output climbs significantly for 2009. Yet estimated fuel economy actually improves.'

'Body rigidity is up 15%, and front strut mounts are 100% stiffer.'

'Chassi enhancements include aluminum suspension links, with pieces borrowed from the M45.'

'Quick ratio, twin orifice variable power rack and pinion steering (as on the 350Z).'

'Lower 6 point engine mount for reduced vibrations.'

That is just one mag, but Motor Trend is a very recognized mag, and they CLEARLY liked the 7th gen Maxima MUCH BETTER than the 6th gen. I found most mags came to the conclusion the 7th gen was an improvement over the 6th gen in many ways.

You have every right to feel differently, but you would be incorrect to feel your position is in the majority.

 

Per - look in here. It's apparently not a huge database, but it's still bigger than a sample size of just two.


Light - I'll have to see what the latest issue of CR that I have is.

That CU is not under advertiser pressure makes for some aspects of their reviews being more neutral than what you'd get in any of the enthusiast rags. But they have their own biases as far as vehicles are concerned, their being generally in favor of all sorts of electronic interferences ("assists", to those more in favor of having them) being a huge sticking point. It's almost as if they've thrown in the towel to technological "solutions" to human shortcomings without throwing a single punch toward requiring demonstration of greater driver skill and awareness to reduce those shortcomings in the first place. [/rant]


Norm

 

I remember when CR always recommended AGAINST things like power windows and locks, on the premise that they added unnecessary weight and hurt MPG, as well as reliability issues.

Apparently the public has spoken on these issues.

 

Either that or the new generation of testers/writers they have on board came with better experiences and different expectations . . .


Norm

 

October 2010. Maybe your postal delivery people were reading up on Mustangs


Norm

 

Rats! And it isn't as if they have to carry it our here to the countryside; all they have to do is slide it into our post office box.

I also have noticed that my sports periodicals are sometimes later than they should be, and once I found coffee rings inside of one of them. Oh, well; I'll have my October CR before you get your November CR. I hope. At my age, I may not still be here when it arrives.

 

Hey! What did I tell you about talking like that!!

 

I got it out of my mailbox! I'm sorry your feelings are hurt, maybe you should move to San Antonio to solve your mail delivery problems!

 

OK, Are you sure you want to quote Motor Trend? Here is copy from their web site on the 2009 Maxima SV:

"To understand our main issue with our long term Nissan Maxima, you need only examine its optional paddle shifters. Flanking a handsome, leather-wrapped steering wheel, these sleek metallic arcs are artfully shaped and slightly cool to the fingertips -- as though forged from a chunk of Pandoran unobtainium. Except that they aren't shaped from an alien alloy, or even a common metal. They're plastic. Even more disappointing: These synthetic slivers change only ratios, not actual gears, as all Maximas come with a continuously variable transmission. Though they look so sweet and promise so much, the paddles ultimately prove disappointing. As does the car.
Nissan heralded the 2010 Maxima as the return of the four-door sports car (4DSC), a tag its marketeers surely rue to this day. At the very least, these mavens overstated the Maxima's case. But can you blame them? At first blush, it certainly looks the part, with Coke-bottle curves in all the right places and a dashing set of head- and taillights. Our professional seer, photog Brian Vance, notes "Nissan has done an excellent job on the styling. It's soooo much better looking than the car it replaces. The rear three-quarter shoulder shelves are very impressive. I also like the stubby nose and the new uniquely styled arrowlike headlights." But as sexy and sporty as it may appear, the Maxima is no sports car.
"The CVT wrecks this car and the front-drive layout finishes the job. If Nissan's intent really was to build a 'four-door sports car,' the choice of FWD seems absurd," logs editor at large Arthur St. Antoine. "Drive it hard and the Maxima just doesn't live up, even with the summer tires."

"It handles nicely and the sharp-edged front fenders remind me of looking out the front window of a Viper, but that's where the fun ends," concurs assistant Web producer Scott Evans. "The VQ engine is known to rev, but you'd never know driving the Maxima because the CVT won't let you anywhere near redline. Use of the paddle shifters is an improvement, but the car doesn't feel as quick as it should."
Indeed, its six-second sprint to 60 is fast only if you're talking about CVT-equipped vehicles, in which case this 4DSC should be lauded for being the fastest we've ever tested. But such bragging rights are not much to crow about when accompanied by comments like Vance's: "A bore to drive. I just can't warm up to the CVT. The constant rev drone it provides the engine is so uninspiring and makes my passengers wonder if something is wrong with the car's transmission."
Not exactly a glowing endorsement, is it!

 

Norm,
I see CR as a bit too much on the side of "idiot-proofing" cars, being big supporters of such items as stability controls, crash-proofing etc. I consider them another source of information, like I do other periodicals and the internet. The key is to gather information from various choices and see what suits your personal tastes. While there were improvements in the 7th Gen, for me these improvements were either of little value, or offset by dropping features that were available on previous Maximas. A manual tranny was just one of those.

 

I bet you're quite a bit younger than my dad, and you sound as ornery as he is, so I bet we'll see your posts here for quite a while yet!

 

I saw quite a few reviews (such as the one you just posted) done by folks who made it very clear they prefer a shifting tranny and RWD. Most of those folks panned every facet of the 7th gen Maxima, and made no attempt to test the car for what it was. Instead they ranted on about what their very narrow minds told them a car should be. They usually admitted the 7th gen was much improved from the 6th gen, but did little more but complain about FWD and the CVT.

But even there, they sometimes let a morsel slip. For instance, www.cars.about.com spent many long paragraphs panning the Maxima because it was RWD and CVT. But way down near the end of the article was this snippet:


'But when I attacked the About.Com.Cars Top Secret Curvy Test Road in a non-Sport version, I was amazed - despite the soft ride, it handled as well as any front-driver I can recall. Let me end by saying Nissan has done a great job on the 2009 Maxima. It's quick, roomy, comfortable, safe, and attractively priced for all you get, plus it's fun to drive, and easy to live with. My complaints - slightly awkward styling and not quite right ride, are only minor problems. This Maxima reminds me of a discounted Infiniti M35 - similar room, power and style sans rear wheel drive. Overall, it's a very good car.'


But he just as quickly recovers, resumes his merciless panning, telling why he would not be interested in buying one, because he can spend just $3,000 more and get a RWD G37.

He left me feeling he really had no interest in testing this car because it does not fit his idealized image of a RWD shifting tranny 4DSC.

Yes, it is easy to find 7th gen Maxima test articles written by the CVT/FWD naysayers. But sadly their ingrained bias makes it impossible for them to do the job they were assigned - to test the 7th gen Maxima FOR WHAT IT IS, NOT what they would LIKE for it to be, which is a RWD shifting tranny G37.

 

It's my southern drawl, isn't it? Makes your teeth stand on edge just like fingernails on a chalkboard, doesn't it? Or was it because I was talking with my mouth filled with a big bite of a Moon Pie and a large gulp of R.C. Cola?

 

San Antonia is OK, except I understand you just got a real washdown from the sudden hurricane that popped up in the Gulf and raced inland.

Since you are in San Antonio, you are probably familiar with G. Chambers Williams III, who writes a syndicated weekly automotive testing article for the San Antonio Express-News. He tested the 7th gen Maxima back on Oct 10, 2009, and said ' . . the best version yet of the premium sports sedan . . ' and ' . . not only has great curb appeal, but is a real kick to drive . .'

It may not be a true 4DSC, but SOME San Antonians like this 7th gen Maxima.

 

Here in Charlotte I get CR delivered around the first day of the month. The October issue came on 9/2.

I've been a CR subscriber for around 20 years and have slowly become less and less of a fan. A couple months ago we needed to buy a new washer. CR gave very high marks to a specific GE front loader. We bought it, and returned it two weeks later. Beyond awful!

CR's original hatchet job on the 2009 Maxima is a good reason to shake one's head over their testing and objectivity.

Excellent Internet forums - like this one - have become the destination for important buying information. As Light stated - CR is a good place to start, but that's about all.

 

There is nothing wrong with the CVT and FWD layout. The ONLY problem with the Maxima when it came out is not anything with the car itself but Nissan's MARKETING screw-up which has caused the majority of the criticisms against the Maxima I have read. Because Nissan marketed the 7G Maxima as the "return of the true 4DSC" everyone was expecting a souped up sports sedan. As you pointed out, the FWD and CVT preclude and limit it to becoming a true four dour sports sedan and I agree with that as well. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the FWD and CVT what so ever, it just doesn't jive with Nissan's POOR MARKETING strategy/focus for the Maxima.

If Nissan had done the right thing and NOT market it has the true 4DSC or put those stupid stickers on the driver rear window, there would be little critism of the new Maxima because it is a great car for what it is. It handles very well, has plenty of pick-up and passing ability and great sporty looks. It is probably, if not the best handling/performance oriented FWD sedan you can get without having to spend more money and go up into RWD and a regular automatic and or manual. If Nissan had market the Maxima on the basis of a return to a true premium flagship or something along those lines/similar, then you would not have seen all the negative critisms from reviewers who were disappointed in the car not matching Nissan's marketing lingo/focus. Because when you read most of the reviews, they don't have a problem with the car itself, but more in that its current set-up doesn't jive with true 4 door sports sedan.

I couldn't disagree with you more about the lack of enough improvements between the 6G and 7G Maxima. Except for the manual option and a few minor features, the 7G is a much better improvement in every single area, especially in the looks department. I for one am happy that Nissan got rid of that bloated/boxy look the 6G had and slimmed down and put more curves into the 7G. The quality of the interior as dramatically improved as well betwee the generations as well as well as technological upgrades in several areas. Sales numbers would tend to favor that opinion as well.

You know its bad when your supposed flagship (ie 6G Maxima) has a smaller/less powerful engine then your vehicle below it (4G Altima).

 

Actually, six seconds to sixty IS pretty quick as far as the vast majority of car buyers are concerned. It's way more than "quick enough" to keep pace with most any traffic you'd ever encounter. Quicker than quite a few of the original ponycars and musclecars were "back in the day".

Emphasis on acceleration times is more a case of magazine testers and enthusiasts being spoiled with the number of cars that are into the fives, fours, and even threes that make six sound "slow".


My nearly stock Mustang would probably test in the low fives. High fours with stickier tires and a driver with dragstrip experience. But in street use I suspect that I rarely drive it any quicker than eights or maybe mid-sevens. You simply don't use all there is very often, especially in such a narrowly defined exercise. And when you don't, you either use a little more throttle or a little less to suit the situation.


Norm

 

Carrying what Norm says even further, in over sixty years of driving, I'm not sure I have ever floorboarded a car from standstill. I have never understood why the difference of a second in getting to 60 MPH obsesses so many folks. I care much more about a car's handling, turning radius, ride, stopping distance, and capability of getting from say 45 MPH to 75 MPH in order to pass slow traffic on roads with limited passing distances.

In other words, I am much more concerned with a car's DRIVING characteristics than in its RACING characteristics.

 

Thought I'd give you all an update on my mpg experience a week after having the CVT TSB applied. The good news is that the computer shows absolutely no change in average fuel consumption and the Max is much, much nicer to drive. The warranty is not affected because it is a Nissan TSB.
I don't think the TCM software update can be accidentally reversed because it shows up as a different software revision when the vehicle is connected to Nissan's diagnostic equipment.
I don't anticipate anyone being disappointed after having the TSB applied. It is most definitely an improvement.

 

Thats Great news! Thanks for responding to my question, I thought I'd gotten forgotten about for a second. I have a couple more questions. How much did it cost to have the reprograming done? How did you find out about this and is there anywhere I can go to read up more on in? It there is no warranty affected and not a huge drop in MPG then this is somthing I def would like to try out. Thanks.

 

I have read G. Chambers Williams' column for many years, and he has yet to test a vehicle he didn't like! I cannot remember a single bad comment he has made on any car he has written about.

 

Is this CVT TSB posted on nissanhelp? I tried looking for it there and couldn't find it. If not, could you let me know where you found it at?

 

You called that one right. I try to never miss his writeups because he includes a lot of stats from the manufacturer's literature. It seems he takes the press releases, glances through the brochure, takes a joy ride in the vehicle, plays with the bells and whistles, writes his blurb, adds a few nice compliments, and draws another paycheck for his work. I think I might like that job.

 

 

how do these thing holkd up on mods?

 

like a complete bolt ons??

 

\and do anyone knows the weight on them??

 

and i looked under a hood on these things and its really tight under there

 

how much do they weight???