Made in china - After research (also supported by Chivalrous Catfish), I agree with you that no vehicle is made in America from almost 90% American parts. In fact, none come even close. I have listened to my friends at my dealerships too trustingly.

As for the Ford F150, you are correct about it using parts from across the world, just as EVERY vehicle does. But when I said 'American made' meaning the truck was made in America, I did not mean to indicate all the parts were also made in America, although I would have incorrectly assumed most were.

I think the only point on which we may still disagree is in the reliability of Ford trucks. You are basing your disparagement of Ford trucks on personal experience from a very small sample. I could also talk of the Ford trucks my wife has always used these last 27 years.

She always has at least one Ford pickup on hand at all times, and has seldom had any problem with them. Her brother still uses her old 1984 truck, and out son still drives the 1992 Ranger STX we drove for 165K miles and gave him in 2004. It is approaching 300K, and he drives it to work in downtown Atlanta every weekday.

But both your experiences and my experiences with a few trucks mean nothing. Only a larger sample would carry weight. And so we turn to Consumer Reports, in order to view the experiences of thousands of Ford and Titan truck owners.

Per CU, the Titan is one of the least reliable trucks on the market. It has been common knowledge in recent years that the Titan and Quest have brought Nissan's overall company reliability rating down. In fact, the Titan has been so bad that few folks still buy them. That lack of reliability has cost the Titan in sales, and so few were sold and reported on to CU these last two years that CU did not even bother to rate them.

By contrast, the Ford F150 is rated above average for three of the last four years, and rated average that fourth year. In case you may not keep up closely with overall ratings, Ford has stepped well out in front of both Dodge/Chrysler and GM in reliability, and it isn't even close. The Chevy Siverado and Colorado pickups, for instance, have never been above average in reliability. In fact, the Colorado is usally much worse than average.

Per CU, during the last six model years, GM had 6 vehicles that rated above average in reliability for a particular model year, and 59 that rated below average. By very sharp contrast, during that same period, Ford had 32 vehicles that rated above average for a particular model year, and only 11 that rated below average.

There is a reason more Ford F150s are sold each year in the U.S. than any other car or truck.

 

I know it is anecdotal, but I have owned my 1998 Ford F-150 since day one, with well over 200K on it, and it is the best made vehicle I have ever owned. I am not a brand loyalist,andwould consider any brand. But....the Ford F-150 ishead and shoulders ahead of all other trucks in terms of build quality and reliability. The numbers simply do not lie.

 

does anyone know the operating temp of the cvt? mine runs about 260 to 280 and that seems hight to me. thanks

 

I would be curious to know that also. All I know at this time is that the CVT runs hotter than manuals and automatics, and that heat buildup was a problem during the first decade of CVTs.

 

cvt tranny just fine no problems 2011 s maxima

 

302 degrees today! seems a little warm to me!

 

mlrsone - That is a high temperature, but may be what Nissan expects to see with this CVT. I don't know any poster here who is an engineer with Nissan, so it might be difficult to find out.

But if anyone else here measures the same temp, then that is probably the temp to be expected with this CVT. That is almost a hundred degrees above the boiling point of water. No wonder Nissan suggests a special tranny fluid for this baby.

 

I have just over 10k miles on my 2011 Maxima. I have driven a manual transmission since I was 16 but my wife hates them. So sucked it up and got car with auto. CVT is nice IMO, I think I like it better than standard auto. Only issue I have had is the surge the transmission and or engine seems to provide when coming to a stop. Seems like a little push right before hault. Otherwise happy as I can be with an automatic I suppose.

 

I agree that there is nothing like the feeling of making good manual shifts with the classic clutch/H pattern system. However I've taken note that the Indy cars and a lot, if not most, of the Le Mans cars are using a sequential shift system. The Indy cars have a system like the paddle shifter on the steering wheel. So I'm starting to think that those of us growing up with the classic manual are going the way of the dinosaur and the carburetor. The modern sports car is more like our Max.

It's interesting to watch how the Indy drivers use the transmission. Check it out. The Kentucky race is today (might not be a good example since it's an oval track) or the Championship on Oct 16. Verses shows them (Fios 90/590HD). The CVT is just a different and mechanically simpler setup.

 

Sequential gearboxes are relatively better in racing, where minimizing the number of milliseconds not accelerating can make the difference between winning and . . . not.

That's hardly a critical consideration in street driving.

Some details probably matter. Take a look at the steering lock to lock actually used in the racing cars, and compare that to what you use in your normal driving. Now consider where your hands will be at any given instant relative to the paddles. Sure, it'll be fine for a straight line sprint when the light goes green, but might not be that nice on a road like the Tail of the Dragon.

I've heard also that while sequential boxes are good when you're seeking max performance and what the driver is doing can be reasonably well predicted, they still tend to be a bit clunky and harsh under much milder driving conditions. This probably will get ironed out eventually, but it isn't there yet. I think it's one thing to set up the shifting when the conditions are better known (i.e., WOT), but quite a different thing when what any random driver might be doing with the throttle is also unpredictable.


Norm

 

The thing at the core of this for me is: What defines a sports car? It's not an uncommon opinion that Nissan's effort to brand the 7th gen Max as a 4DSC misses the mark and one of the big reasons for it is the lack of a 6MT version. I grew up when Triumphs and MGs were called "Sports cars." Then we had the premium sports cars, super cars, muscle cars, and monster "family" cars. Gear heads were jacking up their cars, beefing up and modding the rear ends and putting big carburetors on the engine--Hot Rods. So what's a sports car? What is the criteria for performance, operation, appearance, modify-ability that makes something a Sports car. The only type of car I can rule out are the basic, low performance car, however I do remember people putting big engines in Ford Pintos and Chevy Vega making them hot dragsters.

 

Let me try.

I don't think there is any easy numerical criteria for establishing whether a given car is a "sports car" or not. Actually, most of the early "sports cars" were not particularly high performance in any respect (Jaguar's XK 120 and successors and the pricier Italian cars being the early exceptions). It's more about the sensations of driving, noticing them, and being involved with all the little nitty-gritty tasks that make up the overall operation of a motor vehicle - IOW, "driving". That said, it's easier for these experiences to float to the surface of what makes up "driving" when the driver is less insulated from them.

Traditional sports cars were the sports roadsters that came out of England and western Europe, where greater emphasis was placed on qualities related to roadholding than on brute power and straight line acceleration, and where small-displacement engines were the rule. I'm going to stick my neck out and do a little guessing here - that those economies were still recovering from WWII, and that consequently there was little demand for "luxury" options at the "working man" level.

At the same time, most US domestic cars were MT at least in the base version, but about all that could be said about the linkage mechanism used (3 on the tree) is that it was functional enough to get you from point A to point B. About the only times you downshifted were when the car started shuddering - huge gaps between gears discouraged doing so "just for fun". There were aftermarket floor shift conversions, which being driven by the hotrodding side of the hobby were primarily intended for better upshifting.

"Roadholding" as I used above it is more than just the skidpad numbers, which only hint at the car's potential. R&T's slalom and MT's figure 8 results are a little more revealing, but still don't get down to the level of what you as the driver can actually feel happening. The tech-intensive sidebars in C/D's handling comparison features are perhaps where you have to start looking.

How do you describe the feeling of putting the car on the right line through a given sequence of turns? There is a difference between a car that does so willingly and a car that can be made to do so at the same entry/mid/exit speeds but gives the distinct impression that it would really rather not be driven that way.


Your mention of the Pinto and Vega as cars that might be excluded from consideration as "sports cars" is interesting, as those cars were not all that much larger than the MGs of the same year, and in the earliest couple of years not all that much heavier.

But they did have basically good chassis for their size and weight, and with a little suspension tuning and a wheel/tire package aimed at better cornering & handling they could be surprisingly good, even though the subjective "feel" wasn't quite the same. The street-tired Pinto that I built up along the lines of a fully streetable road-racer never did get raw-time beaten at autocross by a street-tired Datsun 240Z/260Z/280Z, and the Z's stood above the common traditional sports roadsters of the day.


Norm

 

You can answer the question quickly by just referencing the dictionary:

Sports. Noun. An athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, etc.

So therefore a Sports Car would have to be a car that has abilities above and beyond the average car and can use them in a competitive setting such as drag racing, autocross, road racing, rally, etc.

Does the Maxima fit this definition? Not sure about that. How much racing has Nissan done with the Maxima line of vehicles?

 

Norm - You identify the thrill of driving as an element of a sports car as well as the driver being keenly involved in the car. Then you addressed some of the technical handling elements of the car's ability. I like what you have to say and my gut feels similarly. It was the thrill of driving the Max that captured me. I haven't been behind the wheel of a car that I got off on for a long time, until I drove the Max. The last one was a Fiat Spider that I had back in my early driving days. I spent lots of time just driving that car and pushing on back roads in the mountains around the Roanoke valley in VA. The Max has brought that back but adds power to the experience. And, I like to play with the transmission. I miss a clutch, but I let a MT go a decade ago after becoming a commuter and sitting in the rolling parking lots of metro DC and Baltimore. (If only they could make a auto-crawl mode in a MT).

DanOmyte brings a cut and dry perspective. I doubt Nissan is messing with Racing the 7th gen max however in one the challenge races they had worked up a 370Z. I believe I also heard a team was working on a front wheel drive car--can't be sure though. However, I bet as time goes by and people aren't risking their $30K everyday wheels we'll see the car start to appear on recreational tracks and they'll compete.

 

I've had my 2010 for almost a year and a half now, can't say I've acclimated to the CVT at all. It makes me miss my 95 Maxima SE and I'm sure I'll be selling it soon. Off to find a car with a manual transmission, as if many of those are left either.

4DSC my ***...

 

I love the fact that transmission will near redline when floored and take the rpm's to the powerbands "sweetspot"

 

I think what I'm seeing here is that Nissan's tranny control programming may fit some people just fine.

And others not so well at all.


As long as the car (and more and more each year the programming of its electronics) fits your disposition as a driver, all will be well. When you feel that you and the car are never quite on the same page, driving it loses something.


Norm

 

I feel the same jump when coming to a stop. What is up with that?

 

Here's a little something that you can drive to Wal-Mart and you can get it with a manual transmission.

 

I'm just going to downgrade when I get a winter car, then get something fun for the summer.

 

test drove a maxima today and love the CVT transmission... smooth and responsive IMO

 

So much negativity towards a new technology is expected, people never like change. The CVT is a great concept on paper but still lacks a bit with what is percieved performance. There are no gears such as older autos, the paddle shifters are a gimmick so they can say we have that to. The cpu monitors the drivers inputs in a few areas like pedal pressure, steering input, actual speed, so on so forth, the cpu then decides what the driver is trying to accomplish, race? Crusing? And then the cpu adjusts the tranny's response to the best possible effect. Sounds great yes, feels great, not really because it does not have the sound, and feel of what we are accustomed to or what we are expecting. Is it a dog? No when you look at actual performance numbers and fuel economy. Is it a dog? Yes because it is damm expensive to fix and they seem to die prematurely. Like all new technology there is room for improvement and the CVT will get better in the coming years, hopefully anyway.

 

More so these days, new technology means electronics, which generally means "not user serviceable" and "programmed to preferably suit corporate agendas and preferences". You can't tell if it's bad by looking at it, assuming that you can even find it in the first place.

There's something mildly unsettling about having to first ask some middleman (aka "module" or ?CU) to cause some action to happen rather than mechanically or by operation of an electrical switch accomplishing the same task "manually" in more direct fashion. Silly example - do I really need to beg for some computer's permission before the horn is blown?

The CVT ends up being an easy target because it is one of those interfaces that's easy to notice (either favorably or not).


Norm

 

Great comments on the CVT. I understand the comments of those who say 'Suck it up and get with the modern CVT transmission', but as you said, the paddle shifters seem like a gimmick & the cvt (like ANY automatic) is subject to expensive failure. Manuals, besides just being more fun to drive, rarely fail. For those who like auto's & the slapsticks they come with I am not putting you down, because if you pay 40K for a car you should get what you want, but then so should I.

 

I have the same issue.. Kind of worried me when i first felt it, but I guess it is the norm.

I have had 2 standard 6 speed vettes and an automatic. Would like to see a 6 speed in the Maxima but the CVT is definitely more enjoyable than the auto in the vette. +1 for the paddle shifters too!

 

I too enjoy the CVT for what it is and what it is intended to be. After driving a 350z and appreciating how precise and crisp it is, nothing will replace that. I find the paddle shifters to be enjoyable when entering a twisty to hold RPM's, but I think the car does a better job when accelerating than I can.

 

1st cvt car, definatley takes some getting used too

 

Very true. Especially for those coming from a manual. The RPM reversal (RPMs dropping as the car speeds up) is mentally confusing to most long-time drivers.

Early CVTs were unsatisfactory, but this 7th gen Maxima CVT has opened a few eyes to the possibilities. After three years of driving this CVT, I am still learning nuances and keeping my eyes on the tach as I manipulate the gas pedal.

There will always be those who are not interested in driving a CVT, but, at my advanced age, I try to adjust to everything new in a desperate attempt to not be left behind in a rapidly changing world.

Of course my initial willingness to accept the CVT was bolstered by the clear understanding that a tranny that does not shift, once perfected, will give better accelleration and better fuel economy than a tranny that shifts. That is simple mechanics.

 

I like cvt ...maybe it because my maxima is just my daily driver and not my " mod " car ... Throttle response is quick and somewhat effortless in comparison to my acura tl (full auto) where you have mash the gas pedal in hwy or light traffic passes ..

Now if its your mod car or only car I overall would prefer 6spd

 

"The MAXIMA has ALWAYS had VERY GOOD reliability. Poster 'made in china' is misleading us by suggesting Maxima parts are made in china. Almost 90% of Maxima parts are made in the U.S., with the tranny made by JATCO in Japan."

First time Maxima owner, newbie so I have not been here long but this seems to be one of the best threads I've read so far (the last few pages anyway as I'm reading from last to first). Lots of good, intelligent discussion here.

When I looked at the Max at the dealer there was a factory sticker on the dash that, if I remember correctly, said the car was made 90% in the US and Canada and 10% in Japan (the engine and trans). I should have asked for the sticker I guess. My 2010 Chevy Z71 Silverado, on the other hand, has the Made in Mexico sticker right inside the door. Just Sayin :-)

 

I love that all 6th and 7th gen Maximas have been made in Smyrna TN from mostly US made parts. I don't think the percentage is as high as 90%. Not even vehicles made by the U.S. Big Three are from 90% U.S. parts. But the percentage of U.S. made parts is fairly similar between the Maxima and most Big Three U.S. vehicles.

By the way, ALL Maxima engines (as well as Altima, Frontier, etc,) are made by Nissan in Decherd TN, about fifty miles southeast of Smyrna. Both the Decherd and Smyrna plants are well worth a visit.

 

Got my curiosity up now. I'm gonna have to head back to the dealership tomorrow and check out that tag on the dash. I know I was surprised to see how much of the car was USA made. Made the purchase even more attractive than it was.

We didn't do much research before buying the Maxima, rather we test drove a few other models in the 30 to 42K price range and nothing fit our requirements like the Maxima with the Sport Package did.

 

That's what I figured was the case when I scanned through my overnight email this morning at work. The entire .org is blocked there, so I couldn't see your important edit until now - which goes both noted and appreciated. Yes, a CVT should inherently drive smoother than a conventional automatic, regardless of how soft the discrete upshifts in a conventional AT are made to be.

And that's consistent with my general thoughts that a CVT is going to find relatively wider acceptance among drivers accustomed to conventional automatics.


MARnMART - welcome aboard. This is a good thread to find out who some of us are and where we're coming from. Stick around.


Norm

 

Well - I drove to the dealer today and took a pic of the sticker that was in the window and I was incorrect in my earlier statement as to the % of US parts in the Maxima. There is a pic of the sticker in my GARAGE but the basic information is -

"U.S./CANADIAN PARTS CONTENT: 55%

MAJOR SOURCE OF FOREIGN PARTS CONTENT: JAPAN 22%

NOTE: Parts content does not include final assembly distribution, or other non-parts costs.

FOR THIS VEHICLE:
FINAL ASSEMBLY POINT: SMYRNA, TENNESSEE, USA
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN:
6 CYL ENGINE: JAPAN
TRANSMISSION: JAPAN

Sorry about getting off topic and the error on my previous post.

 

MARnMART - We still have a semantics situation here. Nissan has stated that all Maxima engines since the end of 5th generation production have been built and tested in Dechard TN, but evidently, based on the window sticker you saw, most of the individual parts for the engine must be coming from Japan.

The last non-Nissan window sticker I have looked at was on a Chevy on display out in front of my local Chevy dealer. It was a fairly small car, and I don't remember the name (Chevy must make three dozen different vehicles, and I don't even know how to pronounce some of their names). The sticker said the vehicle was assembeled in the U.S. and content was 58% U.S./Canadian parts. I think that is a fairly normal percentage for most cars assembled in the U.S., whether Big Three or foreign make.

 

Well - I wasn't that curious about it before but my interest was peaked. Here is a link I found that states that the engines for all the U.S. Nissan models (and then some) are manufactured in Decherd, TN. The block casting capacity, at least at the time of that writing, appears to only be about 20% of the total engine production capacity so perhaps that explains some of the 22% Japan made on Federal window sticker.

http://nissannews.com/newsrelease.do...D2505?&id=2428

In any case, it was a surprise to find the Maxima was more "American made" than my Silverado.

 

Nice link. Astute observation about the block casting numbers.

The 'Buy American' ads often run by Big Three dealers (Chevrolet dealers are the worst offender) play on the general public misconception that Big Three vehicles are made with American parts and 'foreign' vehicles, even those assembled in the U.S. are mostly made of foreign parts. That is often not the case.

The Decherd plant and the Smyrna plant are both served by the nearby mainline of the CSX Railroad, and both plants are connected by four lane roads to nearby I-24, which runs from Chattanooga to Nashville (and beyond). So getting the engines from Decherd to Smyrna is very easy.

If you ever have the chance, try to visit the Nissan assembly plant in Smyrna. They have public tours.

 

[quoteThe 'Buy American' ads often run by Big Three dealers (Chevrolet dealers are the worst offender)[/quote]

You mean the "LIKE A ROCK" Chevy truck commercials? They don' bother to tell ya the "rock" is in Mexico I still love my Chevy's though.

The CVT is a new beast to us and I'm thinking it's going to take some getting used to. It may take a while though as it's winter here in NE Ohio and my wife won't even let me take it out in the rain let alone if it snows. I think once the "new" wears off she might loosen up some and we'll get some miles on it.

 

watch this video and please repost how to shift this thing right

http://youtu.be/UUD9Tz6sVT8

 

CVT are only going to get more popular and i think we will seem more in vehicles to come. There is a reason why many car companys are switching to CVT, its a great transmission.