It's also a WOT curve, meaning that if the ECU is doing torque management with the CVT in its lowest ranges you wouldn't ever see 268 until the CVT drags itself up to whatever ratio is considered safe for transmitting WOT torque. With DBW, what you are doing with your right foot is only a request to the ECU for it to do something, which it will do only if said request remains within the ECU's programmed limits.

IOW, if the ECU has determined that torque must be limited to 175-ish it won't matter what the rpm is; you could have your right foot all the way to the floor at 4800 rpm, the throttle plate will be at some partway position and all you'll get is 175.


Norm

1st off....how many transmissions do you think are under you hood??? transmission transferring to another transmission???

2nd of all, YES, your engine "transfers" torque through a torque converter which is hooked up to the input shaft which spins your transmission and then distributed to your drive axles via a limited slip differential.

after everything is said and done..google "what is drivetrain loss"

i dont know why you're trying to re-invent the wheel here.

It's a PARTY !!

Uhh...

I said this:

and you felt compelled to change it to this:


You see, the word "they" contained in the sentence probably should have been "it", however, the meaning is still clear. The word "they" was refering to the word "transmissions" mentioned in the preceding sentence. Therefore, the word "they" was interchangeable with the word "transmission".

In your sentence, you added "transmission" IN ADDITION to keeping the word "they". You completely changed the meaning of the sentence such that you were, in essence, saying "they" (a transmission) transfers torque from the engine to a "transmission". By reading your sentence, a reader would infer that there was more than one transmission.

Bottom line, my sentence structure was just fine as it was and your "fix" made understanding the sentence about as clear as mud.

And, FWIW, I'm more than familiar with what a drive train is. Please stop talking and treating me as if I were stupid. You don't know me.

when you stomp the gas at 60, the transmission shifts to a shorter gear. That's why your rpm can get so high. When you are at a stand-still, the rpm can't jump like that because the tranny is already set at it's shortest gear. if it did, then something would be slipping in the driveline, in the Max's case, either the torque converter or wheels would be slipping/spinning for the rpm to shoot up to 6000 rpm from a stand-still.

Norm,

How do you know the dyno chart is representative of WOT? I agree that it is safe to assume that if you command WOT, the ECU is responsible for taking the gas pedal input and then determining the conditions and whether or not the engine can proceed to WOT. What allows the ECU to determine this? In my opinion, the sensors associated with the VDC allow the ECU to make this decision. If you turn off the VDC, then, in essence, the ECU has no way to know what the car is doing. It only knows what the engine is doing.

So, if you are at a stand-still and you floor the pedal, the ECU should take that command and apply it to the engine. Then the dyno chart and the available power/torque from the engine dominates what gets sent to the wheels via the transmission.

I'm standing by my assertion that the low torque at lower rpms is what's responsible for sluggish zero speed off-the-line performance. Speculation as to programming limiting the engine output to save the CVT is garbage in my opinion without proof. I'll gladly change my opinion if proof were provided.

Also, tell me this:

What is the difference between transfering 268ft-lbs of torque at 60mph versus at 0mph?

If what you are telling me is true (ecu engine derating to 'save' the CVT) then there WOULD BE a difference in torque transfer at the two different speeds...

I contend that there is ZERO difference in transferring torque at the two different speeds.

1. Intentionally spinning your tires isn't a benchmark for anything.

2. The Grammar Police are lame unless they're funny.

rochester, I agree on both counts.

Additionally, speculation on what the ECU is or is not doing is not a benchmark either.

I mention being able to spin tires intentionally not as a benchmark of any sort, rather I mentioned it as a demonstration that the CVT is transfering enough torque and energy to the wheels to make them loose their traction and break free. To me, this means that the CVT is not being 'saved' from transfering torque at low speed by any means. If it were, you would NEVER be able to spin your wheels.

Now here's where I play Devil's Advocate (with myself, it seems)...

If you can insure the identical conditions (pavement, temperature, humidity, tire pressure, tire tread), then spinning/chirping your tires could be a personal benchmark for a single car.

A very unscientific one, but if that's all you got, go with it.

it may be a reach, however, I believe that spinning our tires, while adhering to strict experimental standards, is the best we 7th gen owners have...


well, that and speculation of course!

I don't.

But I've never seen a dyno chart that purported to be anything else. Now maybe a really savvy street racer might do something like that to suck in the unwary, but that's a stretch.


You can just as easily program in limits that associate speed, ratio, engine rpm, etc., to determine what % of throttle opening is permitted. Techniques used in some aftermarket tunes to increase the rate of throttle opening can just as easily be worked the other way to slow it down or limit it.

I doubt that turning VDC off disables the ECU inputs needed here. Road speed and tranny ratio information are still needed.


At 60 mph the engine side pulley will be at a rather larger operating radius, giving it greater torque capacity given the same amount of hydraulic pressure available to force the pulley halves together and develop the friction. The same friction force at 6" radius is good for . . . ummm . . . twice the torque capacity as would be the case at a 3" radius. You don't want this thing to start slipping for any reason, as that will start generating lots of heat.


It wouldn't be all that tough to work backward from available front tire traction through tire dimensions, axle ratio, and tranny gearing and find out how much torque would be required to spin the tires at the lowest ratio. If you're starting to corner, the inside wheel will spin under even less torque unless the differential somehow limits or eliminates it.


Norm

...well genius...go ahead and explain the below quote to me then.




^^^^^^^^^^

if you meant to say "the transmission" transfers Torque from the engine to the driveshafts then say it...don't be lazy and assume (notice the first three letters to that word a-s-s ) that everyone understands what you're saying.




...it's called: (say it with me) criticism. and if you can't handle it, then :matt93se:

.....cause you're in the wrong forum if you think you're gonna be untouched.

Beater, don't antagonize the locals with personal attacks, right or wrong. The 7th gen forum isn't the 5th gen. It's different here. (There are adults in the room.)

Besides, dude, you're going to make him cry, and then how will you feel.

alright alright....i dont wanna be another soonerfan so ill leave criticism out of this...

OMG! He who shall not be named...

Once you speak that name aloud, he knows what thread you're hanging out in. Hate and psychological dysfunction soon follow.

Well, this was fun while it lasted.

It's acceptable to write it the way I did since the word "they" was refering to the subject of the previous sentence.

There's a differnece between constructive criticism and a more demeaning form of criticism.

There's also a difference between being technically correct and being sufficiently clear for replies posted to an internet forum.

Can we get back to the tech before the Smurf stops cutting us some slack on what goes on in here?


Norm

agreed. i need to heed my own advice.

ill be more specific because re-reading my posts , they did seem to be a bit demeaning.

Not sure if it was mentioned here yet, but there is engine braking when you downshift with either the paddles or the shifter, doesn't feel much different if any different than all than my last two MT cars I owned. Was mentioning that because I think there is the perception that the CVT has the paddles and shifters for the shift shock sensation and nothing else.

This has been mentioned here, but not lately, and probably not emphasized enough. This should be brought up every time an uninformed poster says the paddles and manual override are worthless.

Interestingly, the 6th and 7th generation Maximas have another kind of engine braking most folks overlook. In plain old 'Drive' with the 6th and 7th gen Maximas, if we let all the pressure off the accelerator pedal and begin to coast down a gentle slope, Nissan has things set up so that we get just a hint of compression braking, which sort of keeps the car from picking up the speed it would in normal coasting. This can easily be overriden by simply easing the accelerator pedal down slightly to where we feel the compression release, at which time the car rolls freely. I appreciated this flexibility in my '04, and was glad to find it is still present in my '09.

Just wondering if you guys think that a 6 speed swap would be possible or not? I got to talking to today and would assume that the transmission should bolt right up to the engine with little to no modification. What do you all think? Any one willing to try?

**Late response to an old post but here it goes anyway**

They built the GT-R as a Halo car. I'll paste the definition below as not to butcher it.

Oh and it's ludicrous to even think they cheapened the 7th Gen when it is the most luxury-like appointed model to date. For everything you stated I'll give you an equivalent. No dual sunshades...well they do offer a sunshade and it is powered, not dual but hey they did add that amazing dual paneled sunroof and that's not "cheapened". Cruise set light, hmm ok you have a point there...if cruise set lights is what turns you on . Folding mirrors, mine don't fold, but they do adjust downwards to watch the curb and automatically dim. Heated rear seats...the rears don't heat, but the rear does have available climate and radio controls, not to mention that the drivers side front seat can be heated or cooled and the passenger seat can be heated. All that doesn't sound like cost cutting "cheapening methods at all.

Agreed Light, makes me wonder how many of the detractors have actually REALLY driven the 7th Gen aside from a test drive or driving their buddies. Also to piggyback on what you were saying about the CVT, it has excellent hill holding ability from a stop. It will hold still on a hill at a stoplight at some pretty steep angles. I found that out when I was living in Tennessee earlier this year. If you just tap the accelerator lightly it will take it out of it instantaneously.

It shares the same platform as the Altima which was avalible with the 6-Spd, so maybe with a little mods, it could fit.

yea find somebody with an altima 6-spd and check it out

I'll have to look into it and see what is possible to do then..

if this can be done i would be very interested cuz all the cars i have owned has been 6 spd except this

yea be the first to have a manual 7th gen

bye bye powertrain warranty, could this void any warranty claims on the engine?

ummm i think so but it would bettet than that ctv bs he has now

And it begins....

You beat me to it.

anything is possible, just how much you really want to do it (have it done).

Here's an admission you might enjoy: I think the CVT, as implemented in the 7th gen Maxima, has far more nuance than the traditional automatic, or any manual transmission. There are subtle considerations available to the driver, if the driver is capable and attuned to them.

I don't think that opinion is universal to CVT... not by a long shot. The key phrase here is, "As implemented in the 7th gen Maxima."

That you've only addressed the easiest question, fitting the tranny to the block.

Will it fit into the engine compartment or has the firewall and fender structure been so tightly configured around the CVT that it cannot without modification. I doubt that the CVT package completely envelopes the 6MT everywhere.
Transmission mount location?
Will the stock Maxima crankshaft accept a flywheel or just the flexplate?
Underhood components that sit on or adjacent to the transmission may have to be relocated.
Half shaft lengths?
Clutch pedal physical space requirements and what things you'll have to move to make it fit there (on both sides of the firewall). Are any wires that need rerouting, long enough to be rerouted to where they'd need to go?

ECU reprogramming and other powertrain interfaces with the electronics. Example - ABS and stability control calibrations might need to be different due to different amounts of engine compression braking available.


Possible? Sure (with enough money and determination). But lots harder than doing the same sort of tranny swap in an early Camaro, Mustang, or Chevelle.


Norm

I find myself primarily using the manual mode ONLY to downshift for engine braking. I hardly ever use it to shift while accelerating.

This.

Although we have a specific thread for this discussion already I just can't help wonder why the question is even being asked. No one made you buy a car without a manual option.

I'm merging this one with the CVT Vs Manual thread BEFORE it gets out of hand quickly.

The engine management would scare the crap out of me. The maxima engine is programed for the CVT and not a 6speed. I cannot see it as a direct swap (ie Slap a 6 speed on and order some axles). That said someone will do it in time on this forum, just will not be easy.

i always thought that the term was called "flagship car".


kinda like the Corvette is Chevy's flagship car.