punkfs

I just had a quick question, how come the front rotor hats get rusty while the rears do not? I'm sure i'm probably asking a stupid question, but it's really starting to annoy me. What is the best solution? Paint? The dealer replaced the front rotors and brake hardware 3 months ago due to squeaking after a failed resurfacing.

thanks for the help

lightonthehill

There are no stupid questions when it comes to automobiles.

Whether the brakes are the current disk/rotor-style like w have on our 8th gen Maxima, or he drum-style of olden days, as the surfaces are roughed up by usage, the bare metal tends to have rust form on it fairly uickly, as water has fairly easy access to those worn surfaces.. But then continued usage of the brakes tends to wear much of the tinges of rust off the surfaces of the disk rotor or drum surfaces fairly quickly.

As to why the front braking surfaces tend to have rust more quickly, I would guess that may be bcause the front brakes do more braking than the rearbrakes in almost any braking system. This was especially true before the advent of ABS systems.., thus rough bare metal showson the front braking surfaces more quickly, needing only a little moisture to begin forming rust..

I would be very hesitant to apply anything to the braking surfaces of eiher our disk/rotor ystem or even a drum braking system, as the braking surfaces are supposed to grip., not simply slide., which would give little or no braking.

gizzsdad

Almost looks to me like they did not use OE rotors? Certainly do not seem to have the same paint/coating that the OE ones do.

punkfs

Right? I don't remember that being such an eye sore until after they replaced the front rotors. I'll have to ask them

Richard66

I agree the fronts are not probably not OEM. I have a 2009 7th gen with 70K miles on the 19's and there is no rust on both front or rear.

punkfs

Should I try complain to the dealer ? Do I even have a right to? It was all done under warranty , it's such an eye sore I'm not sure why they didn't order the same rotors. Waited a week for the parts to come in from Nissan and when I went in to get it changed they somehow didn't have the rotors on hand then 30 minutes later they magically found some. I don't know it's frustrating . Thanks guys

Richard66

Were the rotors rusty when they were installed or did they become that way over the last three months?

punkfs

they were fine, but it was a different type of rotor than the original. it was rusty within a week. I'm not sure why they didn't use the original, those never rusted

maxud

Its been too long since my Maxima was new, and I cant recall whether factory rotors were coated or not. Basically if they installed a rotor that did not have a paint coating on the non-friction surfaces, the area will flash rust. It has no direct impact on braking ability of the car, but does ruin the look.
I don't know what your arrangement with the dealer is, but they fixed your brakes so they don't really own you anything.
There are many rotors on the market that are coated with different finishes and are a bit more resilient to rust. Centric 120 series have black paint. I use Meyle rotors a lot, and they have full surface finish. Advance auto sells Platinum carquest series of rotors that are coated similar to Centric.

punkfs

yes i know they dont owe me anything even though the braking issue wasnt my fault. Im glad they replaced it for free even though it still squeaks, anyways. I did end up taking it in to voice my concern and was told the non contact surfaces of the rotors are coated/finished from the factory so they will not rust, however the replacement parts provided by nissan for warrenty work are entirely bare metal rotors. So basically he said paint it , go aftermarket or just live with the rusted look. Pretty lame

maxud

I know how it feels. Before I started my own car work, I had similar sentiments. Untreated metal rusts, thats just how it works. If you have basic wrenching skills, here is a link for you
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Set-of-2...-/361517479921
or lookup Centric 12042080 on RockAuto.com
For little over $100 and an hour of your time you can get new rotors and feel better for having worked on your car.

Just so we are clear, ALL steel rotors will rust, with or without paint or surface treatment. The paint slows down the process, but does not eliminate it all together.

As a side note, I find that noises are more often associated with pads, especially on a newish brakes. So while at it, throw a set of new Akebonos on it as well.

Where in the country are you?

punkfs

thanks man , I'm for sure going down the route. I understand that the treatment just slows down the process, I still wish the replacement parts had it. doesn't help I across from the beach so salt air is not my friend. (I live in hawaii).

maxud

In this case, forget any words of compassion I uttered.
You live in paradise, rust shmust, who cares?!
Akuna matata or something

MAJ_Jimbo

Folks - attempted to find newer information, if any, but the network is slow at work, so jumping on this older thread.

I have the same issue on my 2016 Nissan Maxima Platinum. The dealership installed new brakes and rotors on the rear of the car. Apparently made by Value Advantage - not OEM, but what they said, the parts NissanUSA states to use. They rusted here in San Antonio within one day after rain. Very rusty on the non-contact brake surfaces. I understand the brake surface may rust and after a few braking actions it goes away, but the non-braking surface, unbelievable. I've owned (3) Maxima's since 2005 (the 2016 being the 3rd), and never ran into this problem. This is what the dealership stated when I complained. One: They could not tell me the specs on these American Advantage rotors. They acknowledged the ugly, unacceptable rust. They could not tell me if they were zinc plated (obviously not). They initially recommended to contact Nissan Consumer Affairs. I did contact them, they said they would check with their engineers about the issue. Now what is different at the same dealership I've dealt with since 2007, is that they apparently "don't" resurface rotors anymore. They only install new ones (unknown to me at the time since I only had 32K on the car at replacement 3-weeks ago). They do have OEM parts, but don't offer them to the customer unless the customer asks. They can't tell me if OEM rotors are zinc plated. They have offered to replace my rotors with OEM, pay half the the cost of the more expensive OEM rotors, and I pay $120.00. There is a definite issue with Nissan parts when compared to the past as I never dealt this before. My 32K rotors were gray, just like the front - zero rust - and I live in San Antonio with humidity and this fall it has been raining. They acknowledged several other customers have complained about the same issue. I understand there are products out there like Permatex, Rust Converter Ultra, etc. with good ratings, but don't have the ability to jack up my car and doing it myself, although when I talked to the dealership team of people (6 of them), they didn't know about it and asked if that would be a solution. I said it could be a solution, but why are your rotor non-contact surfaces not zinc plated? None of could answer and didn't appear they knew what I was talking about. I do plan on doing the OEM rotors (for convenience, since I don't have a lot of free time as a Senior Army Officer) and telling them to give me back the rotors they initially, treat them, and then keep them for future use. Only drove on the new rotors for 3 weeks. I plan to follow-up with Nissan Consumer Affairs for further information and will post what I find out here, although I'm getting the feeling they are starting to brush up the issue with the standard statement, "We'll have our engineers follow-up with this". Any comments/suggestions? Appreciate it folks!


Brand new/Nissan Dealership installed rear rotors w/new brake pads - apparently made by Value Advantage

Brand new/Nissan Dealership installed rear rotors w/new brake pads - apparently made by Value Advantage

maxud

Did you read my reply in this thread? That is about the only suggestion that works.
If you have alot of time/patience and willing to get aggravated, continue down with Nissan.

Factory Nissan Rotors have part number 43206-9N50B (obsoleted pn in 43206-9N50A), have MSRP cost of 113.33, looking at your receipt is that what the dealer installed?
They may or may not be coated from the factory, but if you go to the dealer and ask to see above part number, the answer will be instantly obvious.

I believe Value advantage is not a manufacturer, but a way for dealer to sell cheaper parts.
Since I can only see one rotor part number on the Nissan parts site, I don't know what those are.

Bottom line, Nissan DOES NOT MAKE rotors. They dont make probably over 50% of parts that goes into Maxima.
Most of these rotors are made in China.
If you think you paid for premium parts, and got Value Advantage, its between the dealer and you.
Nissan corporate has nothing to do with this.

Go to RockAuto.com, and buy a pair of RAYBESTOS980710FZN, currently under $23 each plus shipping and parts.
If you cant replace them yourself, tell the dealer to install these parts for you.
good luck
Max

robtroxel

Keep on them. The rotors should not look like that. Removal of each wheel (not rim) is all it would take to get access to brush on some rust encasulating paint (like POR 15) but be careful on not getting any on the rotor surfaces.

Phantm006

Are those the OEM wheels for the 8th gen? All once color? Can you post more pics of those and what color did you go with?

MAJ_Jimbo

Thanks Gentleman. Dealership is workable on the issue, i.e., OEM parts, but I question that based on findings below. Never expected premium parts, in fact not the terminology I would use, but expected OEM parts - same thing that was put on the vehicle when it was built, which is obviously a different rotor, coated and/or zinc plated. I know Nissan doesn't manufacturer the rotors themselves, but why have two lines of parts; Value Advantage and OEM - figure being a dealership, they would push for OEM since they cost more. It's obvious that the Value Advantage were not coated if only after a few days of severe rust due to getting wet.

Doing research at lunch, the Value Advantage is apparently a line of "Nissan Validated Performance. Market Competitive Pricing" parts (https://partsadvantage.nissanusa.com...Brochure-1.pdf). Funny as they state "Value Advantage Parts Deliver More for Less with one of the bullets as "Reduced comdbacks" and "Improved Customer Satisfaction" - Not.

Doing a little more research, I did find the Value Advantage quick reference and application guide (2018). Page 11 has a list of rear rotor parts for Maxima. The part number you mentioned, is listed as Value Advantage part number D3206-9N50JNW and OE# (when clicked on) as the number you listed. Not sure why I didn't find this information before, but there is an email address that I can contact and maybe get some answers - not going to hold my breath. Either case, it appears this part is both as I read it? VA part number and a OE part number? Going to have to validate with the dealership and have me show a side by side comparison Thursday of VA and OE.

Bottom line, I walked through the parking lot her on Fort Sam Houston and looked at a bunch of vehicles, including other Maxima's - no rust to the level I have. Further, there is obvious different part installed at the time the car is built when compared to replacement for maintenance. So the question is, why can't we Maxima owners get the same part put on the vehicle at the time it was built? Would eliminate the issues. Just a thought.

Lastly, not aggravated, just disappointed in Nissan on part they would put on what they consider the "Flag Ship" of Nissan. Again, didn't have this issue on my 2011, but I believe they resurfaced the exiting rotor, if it needed it. Either case - Nissan Consumer Affairs: appears to be "middle man" only between the dealership and Nissan USA, but will not go beyond that. Gunn Nissan here in San Antonio: They are working the issue, but still have to pay 120 bucks for OEM parts, which I question the specifications, which can't be answered, but will get them answered with a look/review of part prior to any work.

Thanks Gentleman.

MAJ_Jimbo

Phantm006 - yes these are OEM wheels on my 2016 Nissan Maxima Platinum. Dirty car when I took pictures, but look very nice when cleaned up, minus the very noticeable, 3-week old new rotors I'll take pics later today and post. I went with these wheels on a pearl white Maxima with a black spoiler. More to follow in a few hours.

maxud

Here is another line from the same link – Competitive with aftermarket alternatives
And there in lies your answer. Dealer is trying to compete with independent shops, they need to send fliers with "reasonable" prices for brake jobs.
I can't tell you if its nationwide or specific to your area, but answer is simple, money.
These rotors cost less than the factory part.

precisely what I thought.

you can, but apparently have to specifically ask for it

I am pretty sure that the OEM parts will have coated (non contact area), black paint iirc. The logic of flag ship is flawed. I have been there on my high horse before, these corporations
don't care about you. They carry about the money, nothing wrong with it, its the capitalist way.
When it comes down to it, you did not ask the right question. You asked how much and assumed you are getting factory parts.
Your best bet is to get from the dealer whatever will make you happy and never go to the dealer again. Research and buy your own parts, find an independent mechanic that will work with you.
good luck

wild willy2

Anytime I replace rotors, if they are not painted, I paint the Hats.....Not the face of the hat (YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT) But the sides that you see. Never had an issue, and they looks so much better that the rusty shiiiat you see above.

MAJ_Jimbo

Phantm006 - see pics, minus the dirt Looks great when cleaned up and polished.

MAJ_Jimbo

Maxud - I'm hoping the OE parts are coated and/or zinc plated. Contacted dealership and they are working with me on the issue. They will have the parts laid out for me to look at w/specs prior to installation. I believe based on the conversation, the 120 install (half price for parts only, no labor) will be negotiable. So in the end, time is wasted, but as long as it does not rust, good to go. I am going to take back the rotors they remove and use an appropriate method to overcome the rust as mentioned previously since they are still new and I paid for them. They can be installed at a later date if/when needed.

It is unfortunate that the practices and/or philosophy of this dealership has apparently changed in the last 2-years. Appears on any issues with any dealership I'm going to have to ask about every single part down to the oil filter type/model if necessary. Digging that deep for the consumer is not right, but yes, money plays a role, although if they pushed for OE parts they would have made a lot more than the Value Advantage.

maxud

I am glad they are working with you on that. It will still have rust, but at much slower rate, and nothing like you had happen.

There are couple of issues here. I would say as far as dealership making money, there are two components. First is labor, and the price would be the same with either parts. Second is parts margin. Remember, the dealer has to pay for parts up front, and mark them up during sale to you, for the brake job. While overall cost of the OE rotor is greater than cost of the VA rotor, I bet they are marked up about the same percentage and overall difference in margin that the dealer makes on selling you the rotor is smaller than you imagine. You can look at your invoice and share what the cost of the rotor was billed to you at. Courtesy Nissan shows that the MSRP of VA rotor $72.92 vs 113.33 for OE. So lets assume they sold you one of each at MSRP and they buy at 60% msrp, leaving 40% profit.
Then they would make 29 for value rotor vs 45 for OE. Not a whole lot more money at all. But advertising lower prices, they can get alot more jobs, so its a balancing act.

As far as parts. I work on cars alot and can tell you there are big difference in quality of parts, so its always a good idea to know what parts the shop is using.
But I do understand your underlying frustration. You went to the dealer, and expected to get Nissan parts, same as your car had before.
So the dealer is pulling a fast one here, baiting with lower price.

compyelc4

"They can be installed at a later date if/when needed." If you have hundreds of miles on those old rotors I would strongly recommend you do not reuse as any new pads, especially ceramic, will not seat in properly and may cause you much pain in noise and vibrations.

MAJ_Jimbo

Complyelc4 - Didn't have hundreds of miles on the old rotors - maybe 80 at the most, but does not matter since the dealership kept them based on the below solution as full warranty work and trade out of Value Advantage for OE rotors.

So this is the end result. Nissan Consumer Affairs does a great job at calling you back and leaving multiple messages if you don't get the call, but not a very good job and getting answers, nor will they reply to emails with questions for what I can only assume they don't want it document, then again maybe just the lazy regional rep I was dealing with. Bottom line, they couldn't get my questions answered and although they received the pictures of the rusty rotors above, they said that was my opinion, opinion? It's actual fact - picture does not lie, and the dealership verified. Either case, I figured the situation would be what it was. Then they sent a survey...funny. Had fun with that one.

Now the dealership. They could not tell me, again, this morning if the OE rotors they would install would not rust and/or protected, zinc plated, etc. So I told them, fine, install the OE rotors. They called me at noon and stated that the Nissan Engineers contacted them and told them that the Value Advantage rotors will rust and they are not protected; crappy product right? Further they told the dealership that the OE rotors could possibly rust. So the dealership did everything free. Upon inspection of my car after I got it back, it appears the OE rotors are coated with something - it's black up to the braking surface - not sure what it is, but it's definitely not unprotected metal that would have rusted by tomorrow with all the San Antonio humidity and fog lately. So time will tell at this point. You can see from the pictures, other than my dirty wheels, they look better on the non-contact brake surfaces. Already a little dirty from some water puddles I drove through. So in the end, it cost me just time at this point, but I'm fine with black.

compyelc4

Glad that one worked for you! Yours now look like my OEM '17. Mine are a very dark charcoal color with a hint of metallic. Shiny too and so far, after 35,000 miles, not a hint of rust here in the Ohio rust belt. Hope yours work as well.

MAJ_Jimbo

@compyelc4 - thanks. I'm hoping it works out well too. Looks much better than before. Thankfully the dealership worked with me on the issues. No thanks to Nissan Consumer Affairs...a front for support, but zero support. Time will tell, but if your at 35K I have more confidence.