No. I call that the only incident ever seen of a freak defect in a locking nut.

I also call it a testament to the durability of the damper, since that one withstood daily driving, potholes included, through the rest of the winter and all through the spring despite having been bottomed out very hard and very frequently when that happened.

Even if you don't reject that incident as an outlier, the fact is that that failure occurred due to a part that is drawn from an external source, and as such it is the kind of thing that can -- and does -- happen to any manufacturer.

Besides, that's a rear coilover. I hope you weren't trying to use that in the pillow ball mount argument...

 

Yes, with the two springs acting in parallel the rate would be 12 kg/mm. But your ride height will be quite a bit greater (a little over 1" higher with those numbers, a ballpark rear weight estimate, and assuming that both springs start compressing at the same time). Less compression also means a greater probability of topping out.

[Spring compression] = [weight] (which is remaining the same) divided by [rate] (which you're more than doubling). IOW, less than half the original compression with those numbers.

It's likely that the shares of the load carried by each spring will be unequal and variable as well, and would affect local load/stress issues along the spring load paths. Fortunately, that wouldn't matter in terms of overall wheel rate effects and handling balance.


Norm

 

The point I was trying to make is that most people do not expect that they will have to degrease every component and than hammer it as hard as possible, and most importantly, most people find out about it the hard way.

Is EVERYTHING that needs to be done (in order for the coilovers to work properly and with long maintenance schedule) mentioned in the installation manual? Be honest...

Well, there's nothing I can say against this. (at least for now... )

OK, at this point we will need to find (or derive) a formula to find out for sure how much extra stress is being transferred to the strut towers. Without the formula further conversation on this topic is basically pointless. I have quickly skimmed through my old physics books and tried searching for this stuff on google, but couldn't find anything useful, so unless you or someone else (Norm ? ) could find out this information I'm afraid we will not be able to arrive to any conclusion.

no, I wasn't...

 

"Degrease every component"? What are you talking about? And if you are under the impression that they need to be hammered "as hard as possible", you really haven't read enough about this product to be able to criticize it knowledgeably.

By "most people", I assume you mean those who won't do 10 minutes of research on a >$700 product that is adjustable in more ways than they can count and that will totally change the way their car acts. If that's the case, you have to admit that it's hard to sympathize with people who take that attitude

How did you determine that "most people" are in that situation anyway? Is it your feeling or do you have stats?

Well there isn't much of an instruction manual at all. But between Ksport and the body of knowledge that is considered common sense to anyone who has any business using this stuff, all the necessary information is publicly available and easily accessible.

BTW, what "long maintenance schedule" are you talking about? Again.... Is this a feeling you get based on what you've read, or a fact that you've gleaned and verified?


You're telling me? You made the assertion, so the burden of proof is on you. Take your time.

Just make sure your formula takes into account suspension geometry, suspension bushing characteristics, tire characteristics, damper characteristics, chassis characteristics, spring rates and behavior, and sway bar rates. If even one of those factors is different between two cars, the effect of pillow ball mounts in one of them will not be the same as in the other.

 

I suspect that it would turn into a nonlinear analysis. Perhaps ANSYS could handle it, if one at least had a "feel" for the values of all of the necessary material properties. Sadly, I haven't had access to that program for four years or so.

Another thought is that CarSim might be powerful enough to show up some differences, though the output from that program seems to be whole-vehicle response rather than the analysis of local structural issues.


Norm

 

I've read quite a bit of this thread so far and checking out prices regular spring/strut combos come somewhat close to coilovers, it seems logical to go with coilovers. I have a couple of questions though...

I saw the link with how few failures there are, so they should be fine considering I drive 25-30k miles a year?

How have these held up for people that live up north with salt/dirt on the roads in the winter? Any corrosion on the coilovers or anything seizing up on them?

 

The only problem i've had here in South Dakota is stuff getting in between the spring isolators and tearing them up in the front. Buy ES isolators for the front (which are considerably more durable) and they will last longer.

 

How are the roads around you? If the roads you drive on are bad, you might have to replace a damper or two within two years at that rate. If not, 25-30k a year will be nothing.

What do you consider "fine"? If you can install these coilovers correctly and don't mind taking a quick peak at them once every few months to keep them relatively clean (as you would have to do with any coilovers), they will treat you well. But if you expect to just slap something in and forget about it entirely, you might be better off with Koni Yellows and some good aftermarket springs.


I ran them this past winter around Philly and a few times in NYC. I've had a few wisps of surface rust on the damper bodies that came off with a few strokes of a wire brush, and that's about it.

 

How often do you have to check your coilovers and clean them, is it every few months or every few weeks. I wouldn't mind it if I have to clean them up and adjust them every few months, but it seems like some of the people posting in this thread are constanting having to take them apart.

The roads around here are semi rough, lots of cracks in them and patched potholes.

 

Anyone who constantly has to take them apart either didn't install them right or is messing with them.

It's never a bad thing to check on them every few weeks, but you shouldn't have to. I would say to inspect them a few days after the install, then a week or so after that, and maybe once more after another week if you really feel like it. After that, every 3-5 months would be fine. And keep in mind, these are visual inspections -- in other words, raise the car up, take a quick peek, and let the car down if nothing is blatantly wrong. The worst you'll have to do is brush off some surface rust, which literally takes seconds with a wire brush. If you don't feel or hear anything wrong when driving, there's no need to start taking things apart and looking for problems. Spraying some anti-rust coating on the threads and camber plates after the install would be a huge bonus (just be careful not to get any on the pillow ball).

The wild card, in your case, will be the roads. Rough roads be deadly on your dampers, especially combined with the winter cold. Ultimately, it all comes down to how comfortable you are with the possibility -- not certainty or probability, but possibility -- of replacing one or two of your dampers within 2 years or so. If you're okay with that, you'll be fine with Ksports. Replacing a damper is a simple operation anyway, and will cost you nothing if it happens within the first year, or just over $100 if it happens afterward.

 

Yall check yall's brake lines too cause those brackets that came with the ksports suck and I ziptied mine up but sometimes I catch them sagging down on the axle and look like they've got wear from the axle "rubbing" on them. I keep forgetting to check them but luckily I'm under my car enough to catch that shi*.
Be safe!

 

They don't suck if you use them right. I used some extra nuts I had from replacement tie rod end kits to fasten the brackets onto the extra threaded section on the ends of the strut bolts.

Gah... Wish I had pics. Somebody PM me and remind me to post them up. I've been meaning to for a while.

 

My own slightly related question regarding durability involves the lifespan of the piston shaft once the bellows are removed. What experience (good or bad) related to piston seal issues has anybody had?


Norm

 

Here's pics of the bracket, didn't do anything special and they are working just fine..

 

hmmmmm i needto see if that clip that you clipped into is in there i wasnt aware that was the intended way to hook it up i just thought it was some universal POS and the little rubber grommet wasnt stayin in there.
anyway thanks!

 

Funny you mention that. When I discovered my blown front damper, I also noticed that the bumpstop/dust boot had gotten stuck in the helper spring that I had added a while back, and no longer covered the top of the shaft. I wondered if that had anything to do with it, since my other front damper has clearly been through similar abuse, and it hasn't blown yet (knock on wood).

FWIW (which I realize is probably not much).

 

hey i am reading these post, but im still having problems adjusting mine, jus woundering if there is anyone in the fort lauderdale, Florida area that can help me, when i check the stiffness the front doesn not bounce at all, the rear bounce 1 stroke, the shocks are all set to soft

Please Help

Chris

 

The hard/soft adjustment (with the ****) changes the firmness of the dampers. That will affect how firm the ride is, but what you're feeling when you push down on the car yourself is mostly from the stiffness of the springs, which can't be changed without installing new springs. With these coilovers, unless you got them with custom spring rates, it's completely normal not to be able to make the front move when you press down on it. That will not change no matter how you adjust the dampers. Not to worry, though: the damper firmness setting will still affect how your car rides.

The best thing to do is just to take the car on the road. If it bounces up and down a few times after you hit a bump, turn up the firmness. If it hits too hard when you hit a bump, turn down the firmness. Just do that until you find the best setting.

 

I've been really messing around with my setting lately and I just can't get it to stop bouncing. When I press down on the front it bounces up and down like 5 times. My bro has the same set-up as me and his rides very smoothly. Do you think I might have put too much preload on there? I tried turning the **** to full stiff and it still bounces like crazy.

 

Have you tried zero preload?

 

Zero pre-load (which I was running before) will give you a smooth ride but over certain bumps, it will bounce more than you’d like. Too much pre-load should not be as bumpy, but then again will be if the bump is strong enough. . .

It was much easier for me to adjust my setup by starting with zero pre-load, then add more as needed. You should get to a point where you’ll realize what’s the best point. It will be a lot of adjusting but when you find that right point . . . enjoy!

 

I think i have 0 preload. I'm going to have to check this weekend. When I installed them I tried to tighten the perch until it was snug and not compressed. I might have tightend them a little too much.

 

after I was running no preload (It felt like I was running negative pre-load at times) I tightened it up prettly nicely, much past the hand tight and I love it, so much better, not bumpy, I'm getting the dampening to just the right place and its golden

then fun (at times) is realizing what you have too much off, or too little and getting back in there and making the (hopefully) final adjustments.

 

So do you think increasing the preload will help? I've tried every dampening setting and it still feels really bumpy. 1000posts

 

I was very bouncy before with zero pre-load and dapening was two turns from full stiff. I since then added much more pre-load. When I push down on the car at a corner, I get close to no movement. More pre-load will compress the spring more and not let it pull and stretch which will give you the bouncy ride. Try adding some pre-load, tighten it up some but not too much, maybe just a few turn when it gets to the point where you need to use the key to turn it. Test drive and see how it feels then.

 

Keep in mind that saying your ride is "harsh" or "bumpy" is actually really vague. Does it kick too hard over bumps? Does it buck/see-saw or knock you around when you hit a few bumps in a row? Does it bounce up and down after you hit a bump? Those are different problems with different causes and thus different solutions, so it's important to know what exactly you want to fix.

If it's bouncing too much, then yes preload can help, but try damping first. If it's bucking and see-sawing or throwing you around too much, then preload can help that too; try adding it only in front or only in back. But if the problem is that it's hitting too hard, preload will make it worse and the only solution is softer springs.

Just offering the obligatory caveat...

 

So I got my Ksports installed today and I like them a lot. I only had one problem with the install and it was the brake line bracket rubbing and making noise, but that was easy to fix.

Now when I was driving home from my dads house...the ride was very harsh and everything was hitting hard. I was just talking to arron (black maxima) and he helped me. My dad and I set the preload all the way up....we tightened those two upper collars all the way. When I would hit multiple bumps in a row it would keep on bouncing and would make horrible noises. Would loosening those two collars help with those noises? It sounded like a big plump noise coming from the front when I would hit a big dip in the road, like a sewer that was lower than street level.

Thats the only problem that I am having, and I am pretty sure loosening those two collars will help a lot. Other than that, I am happy with it, the hadling is awesome, and with the preload all the way tightened I can even stand the ride, so hopefully with the preload loosened it will be much more bearable.

EDIT: Well I just talked to my dad this morning, and it seems like I was wrong and we didn't tighten the two top collars all the way and he just made them snug. So I guess I have to adjust the dampening to get it softer, we did put it a little more than half for the hardness, so maybe softening it up will be better. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. The front driver side just seems like it is making a different noise than the passenger side when it hits a bump. What would a blown strut sound/function like?

 

Always start at the softest damping setting and just drive it to see how it's doing.

If it bounces too much, dial it up.

If it hits too hard, dial it down.

If you can't find the right setting, crank it all the way up and see what happens.

 

Yea I got it softer, but when I hit a big dip in the road the shocks sound like a plump, is that normal?

 

That might be your tires...

Either way, you now have springs that are many times stiffer than stock, and hard pillow ball mounts in place of your previous soft stock suspension mounts. More road noise and impact noise will be par for the course.

 

So, I took a look at my preload in comparison with my bro's(much softer ride) and it seems like he has much more preload in the rear than me. I don't know how this happend since I installed both sets. I'm going to raise the preload in the rear of my car and see if it helps the bumping up and down after on bump.

 

Does your brother also have a 4th gen?

Also, what size and kind of tires does he have, and what do you have?

 

that brake caliper clip is the wrong way.
also i highly recomend repalcing the spring isolators with es spring isolators. best $20 bucks i have ever spent. the ones that come with the coilovers are horrible.

 

Yes, and he has 235/?/18
I would think that the rims would make it feel rougher than mine, but that is not the case. I'm rollin on stock 16"s

 

I didn't see a brake caliper clip in that pic, but the brake line clip is upside down.

 

Ah, i see. Yeah mine are pretty much gone, but i have some ES ones sitting on my table i'm waiting to isntall . Where did you get yours?

 

i got my es spring isolators from this one company online. i cant remember the name of the company but i will look it up for because people have been asking me wehre i got them from. also i dont rememember the diameter of them either but i know that summit racing sells them but the size we need they never have so dont order from summit racing.

but overalll they are much stronger and you can tell by just looking at them. i had some noise comming from the coilovers and once these were installed all the noises went away.

 

Well, I raised the preload in the rear quite a bit and it feels a lot better than before. The car does not bounce up and down like before. It is only a little rougher too. Thanks for all of your help with my problems guys. Now to test the true performance of coilovers

 

i have a question. i am about to go get an allingment this weekend. my toe is out of whack but the question o have is what do you guys have the camber set to? do you have it set to 0/factory specs or do you have negative camber? if you do how much?

 

I would let the shop adjust camber but for the moment, with the car up in the air try to align the wheel as straight as possible. Hopefully the shop is close by and you dont have to drive too far.

I put new inner outter tie rod on and it was very hard to keep a straight line when driving to the shop. Even running extremely bad camber you should drive fine and make it to the shop.