too be continued....

 

I really wish they would close off the ends of the tubing....nothing like rusting from the inside. are you going to fill with foam or anything to try and plug the ends?

 

I agree. When I saw that I hated that big opening.

 

I will be running some expanding foam through both rails to make sure its completely water tight. I really dont know why they decided to leave it open ended as there wouldnt be any welding on that side anyway. The rear is also open ended but since that will be welded shut to the frame it wouldnt make much difference.

 

I'm almost positive my old WSP SFCs on my on my previous max had the ends welded shut but perhaps I'm on crack...

 

Bull! If it was so easy, how come the dozens of intelligent/resourceful people clamoring for them over the years didn't just go out and fab up a set or two themselves? Better yet, TMS took in $5,000 worth of orders in less than 2 days. If it's so easy, why don't you go make some yourself and get yourself a piece of the pie? Can't you use an extra few thousand in your pocket? Besides, as we've seen from all the Chinese imitation products, you can make things that look the same, but that doesn't mean they are the same.

 

A few people have done custom SFCs over the years.

It's not something a 3rd grader could do, but it's not horrendously difficult. It just is tedious and requires welding skills and some basic metallurgical sensibility. The reason it's taken so long for someone to fill Warpspeed's shoes is simply that it's not easy to find a shop that is both willing to cater to the Maxima aftermarket and able to spare the time and manpower for development.

 

Cause they're too lazy to do anything about making these, or maybe they don't have the time, don't know what it takes. Until TMS came out with square tubes I didn't even think of making them out of square tubing. I never bothered of making my own from round stock cause that would require a tube bender and more things. With square tubing it's much easier. I'll be making a few sets in the near future for a few local guys. They prolly won't look as pretty but who cares, they're under the ****** car. What's the point of them looking good if in a week they'll be covered with everything you can think of. I'm not gonna toot my horn. I'm just saying their design is as simple as it gets. Simpler is usually better as they say...

 

Yes, a few people have gotten custom SFCs done. And they had to put a lot of research and planning and work into it and heavily borrowed from pre-existing designs. Again, you won't necessarily get the same results just by copying the way something looks. Putting a Ferrari kit on a Fiero doesn't make it go fast. This isn't the fashion industry here. You have to have some engineering knowledge about what function each part serves. So no, not ANYONE can do it. And more likely than not, no it WON'T be "just as good" as TMS either. A few people might be able to do a decent job, perhaps yourself included. But you give everyone else too much credit.

 

Ok, seriously, have you even looked at how it works on our cars? There is one attachment point out front, the rail in the middle and one out back. How can any one **** that up? Seriously. I can understand that you wanna give credit where credit is due but why are you making it seem like it's rocket science? The only thing you have to worry about is about keeping as much ground clearance as possible. With SFCs I don't see how you can get around not borrowing anyone's design...

 

let's get off this "research" thing....WSP and TMS - neither of these designs is particularly "original." Automotive performance shops/race shops have been building tubular frame braces for decades, and most of them look more or less like what WSP and TMS are building. Again, this is not rocket science. The main sticking point for most people doing it themselves is:
1. The lack of a 4-post lift in their garage
2. The lack of welding and tube-bending equipment.

I'm not trying to downplay either company, but I could build these in my sleep if I had the correct equipment on-hand. But it's simply easier to order pre-fabbed SFCs, that's the bottom line.

while this is true, it really has limited validity in the case of SFCs. The attachment points (along the rails and to certain frame sections) are well-known among those who care about subframe stiffening. Designing decent SFCs is not like designing an aluminum head or building an alternator from scratch...

I'd be willing to say that pretty much anyone with decent knowledge of the Maxima chassis, the correct equipment and materials, a lift, and the ability to weld could probably do it. Unfortunately, most people do not have several of these items, and hence the reason why most people "wait" to get the SFCs from someone who can build them for them for a reasonable price. WSP and TMS are not reinventing the wheel. They are providing a service. Matt Blehm didn't invent the lower tie bar - he just created a design that would fit the Maxima. Same case here.

Of course there are morons out there that couldn't make them....but there are morons here that can't even install an intake or a spark plug, so that's not saying much

 

the plus to TMS (and WSP) is that they can actually provide the product and save all of us the hassle of trying to fabricate things ourselves - which is a considerable hassle in many cases. That is why they are so valuable. The make a good product, and they make it at a good price. That is why everyone should order from them.

 

I agree 100% Unless its doing something that requires casting and machine work the fact is many people could make things for themselves with the right tools and knowledge of how to use them. Like if you could weld and had a welder and a saw you could buy a box of misc stainless mandrel bends and straight pipe and make yourself an exhaust system.

Or if you wanted a custom body kit you could the materials learn to lay yhe mat and use the resins and add some hard work and then you have something.

Every industry borrows ideas and concepts and if nothing was shared like that there would never be much for technological advances period.

-Sean

 

2 quick questions for you...
1) can you take a picture that shows more of the layout of the cross sections? More from the top looking down. I'm sure it's the same design as the "other" ones, but I would like to make sure.
2) when you do your review, are you going to mount the outer rails, drive review, then mount the center section, drive, and review?
I ask because I'm interested in purchasing a set from either vendor and want to know just how big the difference is between stage one and two (or whatever)
thanks

 

Here you go:




Also the installation is based on what the installer says as far as removing the car for each stage. He might think im trying to run off on the bill, good ol miami

 

ok, so if I understand you correctly, your review will be for the full 3 stage install. that's cool. If I understand correctly, the 3 tabs on this design get welded to the frame right? What happens with the "j-bends" on the bottom?
thanks for the updated picture

 

the bends are welded to the frame as well.

 

Hey, if you want to speak for yourself or others that's fine with me, but do not put words in my mouth. I never said anything was revolutionary. Nor did I say anything was rocket science. But it's not child's play either, which is why I suspect you had to quantify your comments above. I think you misjudged just how little the general community comprehends. For example, even though this is a site full of car "enthusiasts," the average Joe here still thinks that throwing a cone filter on that draws warm air in from the engine = CAI. If SFCs were so easy to build, there would be no need for prototyping. We would all just look at a picture and get it right the first time. But we see that even with all the skill and knowledge at TMS, they still had to tweak/test, prototype, and fit their products. So I still stand by my assertion that not ANYONE can build or even design SFCs AND get good results. There's a certain fund of knowledge and learning curve that is necessary before being able to build a set of quality SFCs, regardless of access to proper equipment. This is very evident in just about every chassis/suspension thread on the org over the years. More than half the people never heard of, or know jack about, what SFCs do or what they're good for. Even less know how SFCs work. But even after someone like sciff5 did all his research into metallurgy, worked out the diameters/thicknesses, etc. he still admitted that it was a bit trial/error and that it could have been done better. That was the extent of the research I was referring to. Even reading the threads here and looking at the pictures counts as research. Research doesn't have to be only about men in white coats in labs with calibrated instruments.

Likewise Sean, if you think that just welding together some pipes and bends = quality exhaust, then you have just dismissed the entire art/science of exhaust tuning. Heck, even most muffler shop workers don't know the first thing about designing a good system. They just know how to cut something off and weld something back in. Moreover, you have summarily lumped all the manufacturers of quality products in with all the cheap knock-offs from dubious sources who likely have no idea what they are doing and just copy the looks of a design with no actual product testing.

 

Hmm...it looks like the design of the cross-braces have suspiciously changed their look from the original crimped round tubes.

 

I know that making something perform top notch in exhaust requires extensive research in getting flow patterns correct as well as taking gas expansion, back pressure. turbulance and that fun stuff into play.

I know that companies like greddy thrust and the others spend thousands on testing flow patterns and results. When you get to that level its almost an art.

And I absolutely love how greddy has been encorporating expansion pipes into their new systems shows some top notch development there.

 

I'm in for pictures of the install process.

 

WSP spends all this time bashing square stock, and now it seems that is exactly what they use for their crossbraces :

yeah, those look suspiciously exactly like the ones that came with my TMS SFCs...

 

The point is that the "regular" modder usually won't be interested in SFCs. They're too worried about a cool-sounding intake, cool-sounding muffler, and clear corners. These people, I will admit, could probably not build SFCs correctly.

Those who are at the point where they want to go to SFCs probably allhave the knowledge and ability to build them if they had the skills, material, and equipment. Again, it is not rocket science. A hack job at SFCs is still beneficial to a maxima. If looking for racetrack-quality job, that is another story entirely....

 

I was going to say the same thing.

 

...

 

WSP SFC Center


Traux SFC Center

 

Yep those stage2 and stage3 WSP pieces are definitely different than they were back in the day. Back in the day as was mentioned before they were round tubing that was flattened on the ends where they bolt together.

 

Thats the same type of SFCs Warpspeed built for me back in June 2005. Mine was supposidly one of the cars they prototyped them on. They were using that square tubing for cross bracing before Traux was even making their own.

 

Teh plot thickens!

 

Those photos were on a memory card that had some other things (wedding, boating) on it too...

 

As I said before, I highly doubt WSP changed their design because of Traux, it was more of a rework for people who have larger exhaust systems. Dallas mentioned it to me that people wanted something that could bolt up to 3" piping and the thicker cross brace that Neal was mentioning about was not allowing for that.

 

I'm going to make SFCs with triangular-profile tubing.

 

that's fine....there are really two types of possible tubing to use - square and round...that's about it.

my issue is the fact that WSP has been on this site MANY times talking about how round tubing >>>>> square tubing, and now they're using square tubing for their crossbraces.


Also, they have edited their ebay auction with a new pic.




by the way, it's "sons" not "son's"

 

what in the world..?

 

lol...tha smokin' fast grand cherokee in da hizzouse!

 

labeled wrong...that is actually a picture of Dallas in the maxima

 

OMFG...I found another one. It appears that Cattman is copying the Frankencar exhaust!!! See how both are round mufflers and have two tips! They are exactly teh same!!!!! Even the exhaust hangars are in teh same place!!!!!

 

I hate this image its so wrong. Who wants to see that crap?

 

Deadbeat? He's the one who left everyone hanging, waiting for parts while he couldn't get HIS act together and actually produce a product that the market demanded. How long is production going to last this time? A week, a month? He really needs to

BTW, I purchased parts from Warpspeed before. For the last 7 years they have had terrible customer service. I bought a Y-pipe from them back before I had seen any others. It arrived and fit like crap, rubbing with bee's in the can sound. I thought, hey, that's what I'm going to get with aftermarket parts for this car. WRONG! I bought a Cattman later, and what a WORLD of different, zero fitment issues, zero sound issues, ZERO CUSTOMER SERVICE ISSUES. I tried to go back later and purchase subframe bars from them, and I couldn't GIVE my money away. I will never buy, nor will I EVER recommend, buying anything from Warpspeed, ever again.

 

I honestly wonder at what point the WSP guys will realize how bad they are making themselves look.

I kind of hope it's not soon, though, because this is a riot...