You read it right. After over 2 yrs of SFC retirement, WSP is back.

I dont mean to put down Truaxx (sp*) for their SFCs, they were able to provide us with a great product when no one else did. But...

- IIRC, Dallas at WSP did in fact try square tubing years ago when he was trying out different setups/ rigging his jig for the SFCs, and desided AGAINST it. Said that the round tubing simply worked better at resisting the tortional forces that our weak chassis excert (this is paraphrased, not a direct quote, so dont take it word by word).

- Second and most importantly, Im a full-time college student, and I work a decent-paying job, but its part-time. Althought I COULD have if I wanted to, I didnt see it logical to spent $300+ for a complete SFC kit (all 3 stages), when it was said by folks like DaveB (not the parts guy, if you're old school you know who Im talkin about) and I think Nealoc187 said it as well, that WSP's stage 1 SFCs do about 75-80% of the difference, and the stage2s really just make a slightly noticeable difference. Which is good but the point is that most of the effect comes from the Stage1s.

Dallas started production of his new SFCs earlier this month, and I got a set of Stage 1s. For this he told me (again, paraphrased, so dont take it word by word) that they were $175 + $35 shipping, and that if you were a returning customer, that he'd knock off $25. I got mine for $185 shipped DHL to my door. He shipped them out the same day I ordered them.

At the House



At the Muffler Shop Getting Installed
Passenger Side

Driver Side


Later, While Looking at Ground Clearance

Keep in mind, Im already dropped on Sprints, so my car is low as it is. On the massive speedbumps in my university's roads, I have hit the SFCs on some of them, but thats just because I just drive straght through. Too lazy to take them diagonally to clear the SFCs (no power steering since 3.5 swap, turning the wheel at low speed over all those speedbumps? yea right lol)

Chassis rigidity is worlds better. It really does feel as if Im driving a different car. Takin turns on bumpy corners is alot more controlled and well mannered. Also, after isntallation, I went with a friend (streetzlegend) through an S-turn in the area that I usually took at 45-50mph- pushing it. Now I entered the turn, hit the 1st apex to the right at 50mph, accelerated out of it/ took the apex to the left at 60mph and the car was on rails. EVENTHOUGH I could swear my rear driver wheel lifted in the air. The car felt lightweight all of a sudden back there (that last apex is also at the crest of a small rise on the surface, thats probably what kicked the rear up). But the SFCs really kept my remaining wheels planted perfectly and I pulled away like nothing. Going over bumps still feels stiff (I have a stiff suspension, thats not gonna go away) but one can definatly tell that the shock of the bump is being concentrated at the suspension points (the wheels) and not on the passenger cabin shaking everything inside. One more thing! I used to cruise on the highway at 85-90, the day after I went on the highway to work, and I found myself passing people faster than usual (I was going by feel really, felt like my normal 90mph), I looked at my guage cluster and I was at 105mph! LOL Feels butter smooth.

Cliffnotes- Just wanted to get the word out to you guys that Warpspeed is producing SFCs again, and that you should concider how much stiffening you can really afford. After all, not everyone has the $ to dash out $300+ at once. Its nice to be able to but them stage by stage.

PS- gtr_rider has an ubber writeup coming up in the near future for these SFCs, but a full set. So be on the look out (w00t!!!!!!)

 

muhaha, tis not a maxima feeling anymore..

 

Yay competition among "old friends" this outa be good

 

we'll see how long WS's customer service can actually come through for.....not holding my breath, based on past experience......

BTW, Truax also told me that I could just buy the stage 1 if I wanted to. The required stage-2 thing was only for the group deal, I'm pretty sure.......

 

Oh yea? well if thats the case competition should get interesting indeed. From the impression that I got from them it was a take all stages or nothing. But if they are indeed sellin stages seperately, not only would it make more sense, but it gets rid of there being one monopoly controlling SFC prices. And I agree, this will depend if WSP's customer service can hold out. They were great with me... but then again I've been callin every other month for the last 2 yrs about it, lol

 

Keep us posted. This looks like a real good deal.

 

When I get my SFC Stage 3 in I will be doing a complete review, in which I will most likely give on/offramp bodyroll videos. We will see when the product arrives, I am expecting nothing but the best.

 

ahembrothersahem...

 

If people are interested If you buy a WSP stage 1 I can sell you a TMS Cross bracing. Its no big deal to me. Also be sure to watch for our 3 point tie in SFC they will be available soon for a good price :P.
(sorry for the thread jack)
-Sean

 

What is this 3 point tie in that you speak of?

 

I saw in the autocrossing section a thread that stated sfcs are being legalized for a lower class if it has 3 tie in points and no cross bracing. The TMS sfcs and WSP sfcs both have 4 and the TMS ones with a bolt in section has 5 so they will be pretty basic with the 3 but IMHO will still make a very notable difference in response, regardless of what others may say on the topic.

They will have the option of the full cross bracing as well, then when you go to autocross just unbolt the cross bracing and your ready to rock.

I will most likely release a GB on them early next week right now Im wraping up all the orders we already have.

Lets try to keep any bashing of either our company TMS or WSP out of this thread and possibly even off the org. Its completely uncalled for and just makes everyone involved look a wee bit immature.

Thanks,

-Sean
TMS

 

good thinking Sean...the SFC legality for DSP is a GREAT thing for maximas, since it's a class the Maxima can run top-half in if setup correctly. I'm not worried about it myself since other mods (like the stage 2 LTB) put me up into E-Prepared anyhow, but most maxima guys run DSP....

BTW, not bashing WS....just relating my experiences. I was ready and willing to send Dallas money on about 5 different occasions but he would never return my calls. I have no qualms about the quality of either WS or TM SFCs though.......now it's gonna be a matter of who gives the best deal and who is best communicating with the customer...

 

...for most people.

The stiffer your springs and the harder you drive, the more of a difference Stage 2 will make.

 

ah that is a good point .

 

Were they not supposed to be installed with the suspension loaded?

 

you can do it on a 4-point chassis lift if they use the factory jackpoints. That's how mine were done as well. The shop that did mine is very well-known for doing SCCA/track cars around here and they said it would not be a problem at all (and I trust them).

 

my local muffler shop refuses to weld anything to my unibody, so I'm going to have to look elsewhere when i finally do drop cash on these. Sean, you guys have the adjustable cross-bracing rockin' yet? I haven't heard or seen anything, but I'd be curious if they'll matte up to the WSP Stg.Is

 

Yes have the adjustables available and Im sure they can be made to mate to wsp stage 1.

 

It should never have to be so hard to give someone your money. At the same time, more competition doesn't benefit those of us who already paid TMS. BTW, why did you hold out for WSP SFCs instead of jump on one of the numerous TMS deals?

 

Personally, I dont like the square tubing, but thats my preference. I prefer using thick round tubing.

I also dont like the fact that because its square tubing, for it to "hug" the bottom of the car, they had to cut and weld, cut and weld, cut and weld, I dont like that. If you look at the WSP units, on the stage1s there are only 3 places where welds were made, and thats just where the tabs are welded to the connector. This should be cause for concern for the folks up north in snow roads, yea the SFCs could be made of s/s, but the welds are prone to rust. Paint can only do so much. So the least welds, the better.

I didnt jump on their deals (as tempted as I was to do so) simply because I felt that I'd have to "settle" for their product, when I know that (IMO) WSP makes a better one. Also because I was not aware at the time that they do in fact sell the stages seperately, so i didnt want to dish out $300+ dollars on a product I didnt believe in.

Again, this is all my personal opinion, I dont intend to bash TMS in any way. I just feel that WSP offers a better product.

 

WERD! I will have an indepth writeup of the WS SFC install, and I will also be comparing the SFC and the Traux units

 

Just something to think about:

The SFCs are only as strong as the tabs that attach them to the car subframe rails. Both the WSP and TMS SFCs attach with similar flat steel tabs. Although in theory the tubular construction may be stronger, in practice (for our applications) it really doesn't matter one way or the other.

 

welding one on each side?

 

no two diff cars.. O_O

 

I like the way the wsp looks. They look a bit more subtle that the tms ones. I'll wait for what gtr_rider has to say on each set before I decide.

 

Agreed. Unless gtr_rider finds a huge favor in the chassis of the TMS ones I'd normally go for the WSP ones.

However, TMS came out with 'em first and had great support, and WSP is also talking trash on their ebay auctions. Kinda leaning towards TMS for that.

 

I think the only advantage the TMS units will have over the WSP is ground clearance, since they were indeed made to hug the bottom of the car. My car is slammed, but like I stated in my 1st post, on my university's roads, the speed bumps are massive, and I do scrape them on some of them, but its avoidable if i took it sideways instead of straight on (I dont have p/s hooked up, so Im too lazy to fight the steering wheel at every speedbump ).

 

Minor edit, but .

That's a big advantage on lowered cars, which are the ones on which this mod will make the most difference...

 

Good point. My car has atrocious ground clearance as it is.

 

My s-tech/illumina setup will put the ground clearance issue to the test, which is also on the TMS test car.

 

Sounds like how they talk trash about Cattman y-pipes on their website, claiming that Brian Catts copied THEM (which is hilarious)....even though the WS and Cattman ypipes have little in common except for the fact that they are y-shaped

Anyhow, it's funny how Truax has not badmouthed WS, but WS still badmouths them. Talk about insecure.

Companies who have to badmouth their competition to make themselves look better....especially in a niche industry like this....just lame.

You never hear Matt Blehm or Brian Catts talking bad about their competitors' products. You only hear Dallas.

 

I have directly compared them side-by-side. The TMS have between 1/2" and 1" more clearance than the WSP ones, which sit down lower. And this is the side rails, not the crossbraces. Both cars were on Eibachs, although I can't say for sure that the overall tire diameters were exactly the same.

 

Not only have they not badmouthed WS, but they've asked the org to refrain from badmouthing in at least one thread. I suppose technically this goes against that...

Yep, you can almost always expect those who keep to themselves and don't display selfish behavior to be the honest, trustworthy ones when you need it down the line. Matt, Jeff, Brian, Larry and TMS as far as I can see all have seamless records in terms of attitude and wouldn't think twice before pointing you in a competitor's direction if their product didn't suit your needs (for some of them, little to no profit margin is probably involved). There's nothing I respect more than the ability to put your own desires aside and give objective advice, and I think this quality is waaaay under-appreciated.

 

SO sounds like warpspeed is up to their old marketing tricks....
ruth truax... funny stuff...
but then 184 Canadian really makes me consider these.... just waiting for the write up/comparison.

 

Your logic is flawed.
The more attachment points to the frame, the better. the more welds holding the tabs to the bars, the better. Would you rather have one weld break/rust through and the bar be supported by only two points, or would you rather see three break before even having to be concerned about it?

It's the exact same principle with stitch/seam welding a car's chassis for additional strength. is the chassis stronger with spot welds every 2", or is it stronger with a continuous (or every 1") weld bead?.

 

You and your damn promotion of consideration for others...

This is America. You need to take that **** somewhere else.

 

I tried for more than two years to get Warpspeed to ship me a set of SFCs, and bugged them relentlessly for three months earlier this year. I'm sure you've heard the story from others plenty of times already.

When TMS started selling their product, I placed an order with them and called WSP to cancel. Lynn had the *nerve* to give me attitude about it, even though I tried to give them my money for over two years and all I got in return were empty promises. Unbelievable.

I have little doubt that WSP is only now selling their products again because TMS has stepped in to fill the void.

I will also say that I had a bit of a rocky time with TMS as well, with the biggest problem being that the left side main brace wasn't sized correctly and didn't fit my car, causing me to pay an extra 1.5 hours of labor to have the SFCs installed. BUT (and this is a big but) Sean, to his credit, stepped up to the plate and promptly reimbursed me for the extra install cost and did his best to make sure I was happy. Most of the issues I had with TMS were, I think, the results of a new business owner getting his feet wet and are excusable in that light.

The most important point to me is that TMS, while they may still be learning, are ultimately focused on customer service and will stand behind their product and do what they can to make you happy, so good on them for that. Take that for what you will.

 

I just think that he's pointing out that it should be up to the consumers to decide on a product, rather than WS badmouthing Cattman and Truax. I mean, badmouthing Cattman? Is that a joke? Brian Catts makes better quality products than WSP can ever hope to. But he doesn't come on here talking trash.

In such a small market for AM parts like the maxima, most of the vendors here interact well and help each other out. Coming out and badmouthing other vendors is just plain classless.

 

I did also say this on that same post Matt..
"Personally, I dont like the square tubing, but thats my preference."

I do agree with your point though. Let me clarify. I was just contrasting how the TMS units (since they were made to hug the bottom of the car) have alot of cutting and welding ON THE BARS THEMSELVES, as opposed to the WSP bars that are a solid piece from head to end (aside of course to the attachment points- I used those for reference only). This is what I was referring to when I said I didnt like the # of welds on the TMS units.

Again, this is my personal opinion.

Quote from Charleikwin:
"The most important point to me is that TMS, while they may still be learning, are ultimately focused on customer service and will stand behind their product and do what they can to make you happy, so good on them for that. Take that for what you will."

I have to agree with you on this. TMS is doing a great job in running a new company and they are making a great name/ reputation for themselves.

 

thanks for the random posts, keep on topic...