Corner Balancing / Alignment of Coilovers
05-19-2009, 09:28 PM
#1
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Corner Balancing / Alignment of Coilovers
So I had the GC/Koni/Stillen plates setup balanced and aligned today. I must say it makes a world of difference to have this done.
Total weight of the car with a full tank of gas is 3004 pounds, 3228 with me in the car.
LF = 1043 RF = 989
LR = 625 RR = 571
They were able to get the cross weight to 50%, with the sway bar disconnected. Though the sway bar has a HUGE amount of preload when it's bolted up to the control arms and no load on the suspension.
I might try to fab up some heim joint end links to adjust the preload out next time.
Alignment ended up being -1.4 camber, with 1/16 total toe out. Cross camber was 0.1 degree! Toe was -0.04 degrees on both sides. Caster could not be adjusted, is it possible to notch the bolt holes on the strut towers to get some adjustment?
Anyways just throwing that out there, if you have coilovers it's worth the effort to get this all done. This place charges $250 for all this, took the owner (Scott Rosnick) about 4 hours to get it all done. He has over 20 years of racing, fabrication, and mechanic experience. I will say this is one of the few places that exceeded my expectations.
Place is called -
Fastrack Automotive
147 Summit Street
Peabody, MA 01960
978-977-0707
Good stuff
Total weight of the car with a full tank of gas is 3004 pounds, 3228 with me in the car.
LF = 1043 RF = 989
LR = 625 RR = 571
They were able to get the cross weight to 50%, with the sway bar disconnected. Though the sway bar has a HUGE amount of preload when it's bolted up to the control arms and no load on the suspension.
I might try to fab up some heim joint end links to adjust the preload out next time.
Alignment ended up being -1.4 camber, with 1/16 total toe out. Cross camber was 0.1 degree! Toe was -0.04 degrees on both sides. Caster could not be adjusted, is it possible to notch the bolt holes on the strut towers to get some adjustment?
Anyways just throwing that out there, if you have coilovers it's worth the effort to get this all done. This place charges $250 for all this, took the owner (Scott Rosnick) about 4 hours to get it all done. He has over 20 years of racing, fabrication, and mechanic experience. I will say this is one of the few places that exceeded my expectations.
Place is called -
Fastrack Automotive
147 Summit Street
Peabody, MA 01960
978-977-0707
Good stuff
05-24-2009, 12:23 PM
#2
So I had the GC/Koni/Stillen plates setup balanced and aligned today. I must say it makes a world of difference to have this done.
Total weight of the car with a full tank of gas is 3004 pounds, 3228 with me in the car.
LF = 1043 RF = 989
LR = 625 RR = 571
They were able to get the cross weight to 50%, with the sway bar disconnected. Though the sway bar has a HUGE amount of preload when it's bolted up to the control arms and no load on the suspension.
I might try to fab up some heim joint end links to adjust the preload out next time.
Alignment ended up being -1.4 camber, with 1/16 total toe out. Cross camber was 0.1 degree! Toe was -0.04 degrees on both sides. Caster could not be adjusted, is it possible to notch the bolt holes on the strut towers to get some adjustment?
Anyways just throwing that out there, if you have coilovers it's worth the effort to get this all done. This place charges $250 for all this, took the owner (Scott Rosnick) about 4 hours to get it all done. He has over 20 years of racing, fabrication, and mechanic experience. I will say this is one of the few places that exceeded my expectations.
Place is called -
Fastrack Automotive
147 Summit Street
Peabody, MA 01960
978-977-0707
Good stuff
Total weight of the car with a full tank of gas is 3004 pounds, 3228 with me in the car.
LF = 1043 RF = 989
LR = 625 RR = 571
They were able to get the cross weight to 50%, with the sway bar disconnected. Though the sway bar has a HUGE amount of preload when it's bolted up to the control arms and no load on the suspension.
I might try to fab up some heim joint end links to adjust the preload out next time.
Alignment ended up being -1.4 camber, with 1/16 total toe out. Cross camber was 0.1 degree! Toe was -0.04 degrees on both sides. Caster could not be adjusted, is it possible to notch the bolt holes on the strut towers to get some adjustment?
Anyways just throwing that out there, if you have coilovers it's worth the effort to get this all done. This place charges $250 for all this, took the owner (Scott Rosnick) about 4 hours to get it all done. He has over 20 years of racing, fabrication, and mechanic experience. I will say this is one of the few places that exceeded my expectations.
Place is called -
Fastrack Automotive
147 Summit Street
Peabody, MA 01960
978-977-0707
Good stuff
Hmm, I had considered having this done when i got my CO, and when I called around and spoke to some shops they advised that I would notice much of a difference it wasnt worth it unless I used the car for autocrossing.
05-24-2009, 09:01 PM
#3
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On Thursday I took the car to NHMS and it felt alot better. Though it's hard to judge the overall improvement on the track as I changed alot with the car since last time I went.
05-25-2009, 06:56 AM
#4
Corner weighting is essential for any car with coilovers that wants to handle well on or off the track.
Joe, I slotted my upper strut holes in the red Maxima several years ago. I was able to get 2-3 degrees of both camber and caster out of it, (I slotted them back and towards the center of the car) then with the adjustable camber at the lower strut bolt holes, I could dial in/out more camber if I had too much or still needed more. Made a huge difference on being able to get the car to corner well.
Joe, I slotted my upper strut holes in the red Maxima several years ago. I was able to get 2-3 degrees of both camber and caster out of it, (I slotted them back and towards the center of the car) then with the adjustable camber at the lower strut bolt holes, I could dial in/out more camber if I had too much or still needed more. Made a huge difference on being able to get the car to corner well.
05-25-2009, 07:43 AM
#5
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Corner weighting is essential for any car with coilovers that wants to handle well on or off the track.
Joe, I slotted my upper strut holes in the red Maxima several years ago. I was able to get 2-3 degrees of both camber and caster out of it, (I slotted them back and towards the center of the car) then with the adjustable camber at the lower strut bolt holes, I could dial in/out more camber if I had too much or still needed more. Made a huge difference on being able to get the car to corner well.
Joe, I slotted my upper strut holes in the red Maxima several years ago. I was able to get 2-3 degrees of both camber and caster out of it, (I slotted them back and towards the center of the car) then with the adjustable camber at the lower strut bolt holes, I could dial in/out more camber if I had too much or still needed more. Made a huge difference on being able to get the car to corner well.
Speaking of camber adjustment do those eccentric camber strut bolts work long term for track use? I've thought about using them to get some more negative camber but I don't trust them. I am also considering notching the rear strut towers to see if I can adjust rear camber. Nothing crazy just enough to get both sides around -0.5.
Last edited by 98SEBlackMax; 05-25-2009 at 07:49 AM.
05-26-2009, 09:06 PM
#6
Notching the rear struts won't do a thing for your. Your rear alignment is set by the log between the rear wheels. horrrayyy minivan suspension.
sounds like you're mixed up on the caster/camber for drilling holes.
To adjust camber, you want to be able to move the top of the strut toward or away from the engine (side to side in relation to the car).
To adjust caster, you want to move the top of the strut fore/aft toward or away from the bumpers.
Since the ideal goal is to add positive caster and negative camber, you will want to move the upper strut mounts inward and backward- basically toward your shifter. I marked holes about 1/2" at a 45* angle inward/backward from the original holes and drilled new ones there. I then took some tool (I think it was a big Dremel or maybe a die grinder.. forget now), and turned the pair of holes into slots.
Those eccentric camber bolts are CRAP. I've had them come loose on me several times, and feeling your alignment change by 3-4-5 degrees in mid corner is a SCARY experience. I had to turn the wheel something like 1/4 turn or so just to stay on the road. Fortunately it didn't happen at the track.
what I do with my struts to get more camber adjustment is to remove the strut from the knuckle assembly, then enlarge the top strut holes (just do one hole- don't mess with the other since that will be your main locating point for reassembly) with a unibit or other larger drill bit.
Once the holes are larger, that gives you some "slop" in the suspension. Find/make four washers that fit very tight against the 14mm strut mount bolts so there's no play between them. Now clean the paint off around the enlarged strut holes. install the bolt with washers on both ends, against the strut.
Now you have a lot of room to adjust your camber. But you don't want this stuff moving around, right?
Sooo, when you go back to the alignment shop and get everything aligned properly, torque the crap out of those bolt holes and mark them with a sharpie/paint pen/something BEFORE you drive away from the shop. Weld the washer to the strut housing with some 1/4" beads in a few places around the washer to lock it in place permanently. Ideally you'll do this at the alignment shop before things have a chance to move, but not all shops have welders handy.
When you get all that home, pull the wheel off (don't unbolt the suspension no matter how much you want to!!!) and paint the bare metal spots with a suitable paint.
Should get you going. it's cheap and it works. Racers have been doing that stuff for years.
and yes... there's enough room in the strut towers to slot the holes.. at least there was on my 3 gen, and they use the same bolt pattern on the upper strut mounts. (I'm actually using 4 gen mounts on my car right now to get more suspension travel over the 3 gen mounts...)
sounds like you're mixed up on the caster/camber for drilling holes.
To adjust camber, you want to be able to move the top of the strut toward or away from the engine (side to side in relation to the car).
To adjust caster, you want to move the top of the strut fore/aft toward or away from the bumpers.
Since the ideal goal is to add positive caster and negative camber, you will want to move the upper strut mounts inward and backward- basically toward your shifter. I marked holes about 1/2" at a 45* angle inward/backward from the original holes and drilled new ones there. I then took some tool (I think it was a big Dremel or maybe a die grinder.. forget now), and turned the pair of holes into slots.
Those eccentric camber bolts are CRAP. I've had them come loose on me several times, and feeling your alignment change by 3-4-5 degrees in mid corner is a SCARY experience. I had to turn the wheel something like 1/4 turn or so just to stay on the road. Fortunately it didn't happen at the track.
what I do with my struts to get more camber adjustment is to remove the strut from the knuckle assembly, then enlarge the top strut holes (just do one hole- don't mess with the other since that will be your main locating point for reassembly) with a unibit or other larger drill bit.
Once the holes are larger, that gives you some "slop" in the suspension. Find/make four washers that fit very tight against the 14mm strut mount bolts so there's no play between them. Now clean the paint off around the enlarged strut holes. install the bolt with washers on both ends, against the strut.
Now you have a lot of room to adjust your camber. But you don't want this stuff moving around, right?
Sooo, when you go back to the alignment shop and get everything aligned properly, torque the crap out of those bolt holes and mark them with a sharpie/paint pen/something BEFORE you drive away from the shop. Weld the washer to the strut housing with some 1/4" beads in a few places around the washer to lock it in place permanently. Ideally you'll do this at the alignment shop before things have a chance to move, but not all shops have welders handy.
When you get all that home, pull the wheel off (don't unbolt the suspension no matter how much you want to!!!) and paint the bare metal spots with a suitable paint.
Should get you going. it's cheap and it works. Racers have been doing that stuff for years.
and yes... there's enough room in the strut towers to slot the holes.. at least there was on my 3 gen, and they use the same bolt pattern on the upper strut mounts. (I'm actually using 4 gen mounts on my car right now to get more suspension travel over the 3 gen mounts...)
Last edited by Matt93SE; 05-26-2009 at 09:09 PM.
05-26-2009, 10:25 PM
#7
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Notching the rear struts won't do a thing for your. Your rear alignment is set by the log between the rear wheels. horrrayyy minivan suspension.
sounds like you're mixed up on the caster/camber for drilling holes.
To adjust camber, you want to be able to move the top of the strut toward or away from the engine (side to side in relation to the car).
To adjust caster, you want to move the top of the strut fore/aft toward or away from the bumpers.
Since the ideal goal is to add positive caster and negative camber, you will want to move the upper strut mounts inward and backward- basically toward your shifter. I marked holes about 1/2" at a 45* angle inward/backward from the original holes and drilled new ones there. I then took some tool (I think it was a big Dremel or maybe a die grinder.. forget now), and turned the pair of holes into slots.
Those eccentric camber bolts are CRAP. I've had them come loose on me several times, and feeling your alignment change by 3-4-5 degrees in mid corner is a SCARY experience. I had to turn the wheel something like 1/4 turn or so just to stay on the road. Fortunately it didn't happen at the track.
what I do with my struts to get more camber adjustment is to remove the strut from the knuckle assembly, then enlarge the top strut holes (just do one hole- don't mess with the other since that will be your main locating point for reassembly) with a unibit or other larger drill bit.
Once the holes are larger, that gives you some "slop" in the suspension. Find/make four washers that fit very tight against the 14mm strut mount bolts so there's no play between them. Now clean the paint off around the enlarged strut holes. install the bolt with washers on both ends, against the strut.
Now you have a lot of room to adjust your camber. But you don't want this stuff moving around, right?
Sooo, when you go back to the alignment shop and get everything aligned properly, torque the crap out of those bolt holes and mark them with a sharpie/paint pen/something BEFORE you drive away from the shop. Weld the washer to the strut housing with some 1/4" beads in a few places around the washer to lock it in place permanently. Ideally you'll do this at the alignment shop before things have a chance to move, but not all shops have welders handy.
When you get all that home, pull the wheel off (don't unbolt the suspension no matter how much you want to!!!) and paint the bare metal spots with a suitable paint.
Should get you going. it's cheap and it works. Racers have been doing that stuff for years.
and yes... there's enough room in the strut towers to slot the holes.. at least there was on my 3 gen, and they use the same bolt pattern on the upper strut mounts. (I'm actually using 4 gen mounts on my car right now to get more suspension travel over the 3 gen mounts...)
sounds like you're mixed up on the caster/camber for drilling holes.
To adjust camber, you want to be able to move the top of the strut toward or away from the engine (side to side in relation to the car).
To adjust caster, you want to move the top of the strut fore/aft toward or away from the bumpers.
Since the ideal goal is to add positive caster and negative camber, you will want to move the upper strut mounts inward and backward- basically toward your shifter. I marked holes about 1/2" at a 45* angle inward/backward from the original holes and drilled new ones there. I then took some tool (I think it was a big Dremel or maybe a die grinder.. forget now), and turned the pair of holes into slots.
Those eccentric camber bolts are CRAP. I've had them come loose on me several times, and feeling your alignment change by 3-4-5 degrees in mid corner is a SCARY experience. I had to turn the wheel something like 1/4 turn or so just to stay on the road. Fortunately it didn't happen at the track.
what I do with my struts to get more camber adjustment is to remove the strut from the knuckle assembly, then enlarge the top strut holes (just do one hole- don't mess with the other since that will be your main locating point for reassembly) with a unibit or other larger drill bit.
Once the holes are larger, that gives you some "slop" in the suspension. Find/make four washers that fit very tight against the 14mm strut mount bolts so there's no play between them. Now clean the paint off around the enlarged strut holes. install the bolt with washers on both ends, against the strut.
Now you have a lot of room to adjust your camber. But you don't want this stuff moving around, right?
Sooo, when you go back to the alignment shop and get everything aligned properly, torque the crap out of those bolt holes and mark them with a sharpie/paint pen/something BEFORE you drive away from the shop. Weld the washer to the strut housing with some 1/4" beads in a few places around the washer to lock it in place permanently. Ideally you'll do this at the alignment shop before things have a chance to move, but not all shops have welders handy.
When you get all that home, pull the wheel off (don't unbolt the suspension no matter how much you want to!!!) and paint the bare metal spots with a suitable paint.
Should get you going. it's cheap and it works. Racers have been doing that stuff for years.
and yes... there's enough room in the strut towers to slot the holes.. at least there was on my 3 gen, and they use the same bolt pattern on the upper strut mounts. (I'm actually using 4 gen mounts on my car right now to get more suspension travel over the 3 gen mounts...)
Though Im sure on the front camber adjustment, just wasn't sure on which way to go for more positive caster. Makes sense to me now. Thanks.
I can try that strut drilling method to get some more camber adjustment. I will try to find some washers and make the holes just big enough to fit over the strut bolts. Also they have a welder there, so it should not be a problem getting the washers welded to the strut body.
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