Ima have to save up for custom coilovers before I can buy the tops.

 

I would really like the tops, but with Konis/Eibachs it sounds like that won't work. I've been debating getting some GC's for my car but I'm concerned about ride quality and noises. There doesn't seem to be a consensus about how to properly set up GC's, especially since there seem to be so many different versions of them for 4th gens.

I guess put me down for a set of the lowers. I can't picture where/how they would fit on a car though; got pics?

Since the custom LCA's aren't happening, and the beam bending party I tried to set up on the SR20 forum fell through, I guess this is the last step for me....

 

It is possible to get a GC/Koni setup to have low noise and ride good. Problem is you have to pay to play with helper springs & couplers, some misc. parts, and your time. Same goes for the custom LCAs and I drove 12 hours one way to get my beam bent back in Nov '06. We don't have a good aftermarket for suspension and as such parts are not cheap nor readily available, so it is not so much the destination its about the journey.

I need to create a thread for the GC/Konis and show people how to set these up so that they are nice and not noisy. Jsutter showed me a bunch of various tricks that other car guys have done. No one to my knowledge has put all these ideas in one place. When I get my struts revalved I will pull them off the car and take some pics. Then install these new front plates and get the car corner balanced and aligned.

Lowers will look just like Stillen plates with the addition of another part to allow for caster adjustment.

Full custom LCAs may happen for me this Fall/Winter but I don't think anyone would be willing to spend what I will spend to have them developed. They also need my car for a month or two, I don't drive it in the Fall and Winter so that works for me. The good news is that they will make welding jigs and if someone else wants a set they will be cheaper than my set.

Beam bending is another problem and the way it was done on my car it is not correct. My alignment guy used to race VWs which had a similar rear beam and said the method is incorrect. To get it right the bending has to be done with the car on the alignment rack with the weight of the driver to get the numbers right. We may fab up a bending jig and get the beam bent properly. Anyone else that wants it done can goto his shop for the same procedure.

 

Yes please do


And I'm going to add, I need a new job

 

That's nuts. Sorry to hear it wasn't bent proper with that long of a drive. Sometimes it feels like our suspension "journey" takes us to the Bermuda Triangle...

 

It was down to VA beach so it was a nice trip. Also the bending did make it handle better, I will say that. On the alignment rack the toe is uneven when the weight of the driver is put in the car. But the difference is still within spec. It needs to be bent with the driver's weight added from what the shop told me. So overall better but not perfect.

Ironically a year later they had a bending party about 1 hour from my house in NH...

Anyways OEM got the plates on Friday and Mark is drawing up the CNC files this week. I should have a prototype set in my hands 2 weeks from now.

 

Yeah, that beam bending guy on the SR20 forum used to live 30 minutes from my house before he moved to Colorado. This was of course before I knew what beam bending was....

Did I mention that I will drive to MA to get mine bent properly?

BTW, the lower mounting plates attach to the lower 2 strut bolts, right?

 

These plates will work just like the Stillen plates, just better. They have caster adjustment and are coaxial. The two lower strut bolts that attach to the hub have nothing to do with these plates.

The plates will allow camber/caster adjustment without using any camber offset bolts or notching the upper strut towers for caster adjustment.

 

Ok, I must be mistaken. I thought the Stillens were top mount. I definitely don't understand where these go then.

 

These mount on top of the strut and hold the spring in place. "Top Hats" if you will, but adjustable. The assembly is then inserted from underneath and bolted to the strut towers.

 

Agreed.

Sounds like some real progress is being made here. Can't wait to see pics of the prototypes installed.

 

I will have pics of the rear mounts that OEM makes in just a day or two....they shipped yesterday

 

Here are the pics of OEMs rear mounts that I just got!

 

Are those for stock sized springs?

 

Yes for stock sized Eibach springs. Only thing I'm concerned about is that the size of the pillowball is 11mm and my struts are 10mm. Seams like that's a lot of play. I'm gonna email OEM about it.

 

Wow those look great! I work at maximum motorsports which makes parts for mustangs. We just start powder-coating with something similar to that. Sweet stuff!

 

Yeah, that might be an issue. Sounds like they just used the wrong pillow *****. They look like good quality parts though.

 

Updates.





Rough prototypes are done. These new plates will have more camber adjustment than the Stillens and some offset built into them for caster, along with the ability to adjust for more postive caster.

Another week or so I should have set of bottom mounts that will work with coilover springs. I will test fit and take pics then send back for production and any adjustments if neccesary.

Top mounts are next on tap for us hardcore folks.

 

Now go make a how-to thread for GC's so we can all run real suspension!

 

Joe, even if OEM machines in more camber adjustment it cannot be used without modding the strut tower. With what adjustment Stillen/Cusco already has, the allen screws hit the opening in the strut tower. And thats not even maxed out on the plates. Also those with FSTB would need to hack the hell out of the mounts for that to work. Never the less I have seen it done before.




BTW I forgot Cattman used to make top mount style plates. These are proto types I believe. The struts are AGX off an Eclipse with Progress springs. I have no idea who made the camber plate.


Here is what Stilens plates look like assembled. My old coil over setup.

 

Yeah on my car I can max out the camber adjustment and the allen heads don't hit the strut tower. If you put the four allen heads in the center holes and not on the edges you can max out the plate's camber adjustment. I had the good fortune of finding a friendly race shop that likes doing alignments. So we messed around with the plates and alignment. The original setup I could only get around -1.5 IIRC with the allens hitting the towers. With the new setup the allens just clear the strut tower by a few mm and I got around -2.2 camber on one side and -2.05 on the other, I settled on -2.0 camber on both sides.

But you are right on the camber adjustment, anything more than -2.0 will probally require modification of the strut towers. It all depends on how big the housing that carries the spherical is and how close the allen heads are to the center. It looks like OEM uses 3 allens in a row per side and if we put the allens in the center of the plates, so we only have to use two allen heads; lets say M8 x 1.25 they should be strong enough and give alot more room for adjustment.

When we dial in more positive caster existing FSTBs also won't work without modifying them. Again I don't even run a FSTB because all of existing desgins are terrible IMO. However OEM has a design that works but its pricey and a bit overkill I think.



Now I have seen Mustangs with a FSTB triangular braces with no sphericals or adjustment needed, it just bolts to the strut towers/firewall. It has slots cut into it for guys that adjust camber and caster.

That would be the most ideal setup but we have a busy firewall and there isn't much room to bolt anything else to it.

 

That strut bar is cool

 

Mmmmmm VE powah!


I had my bolts in the center holes and I could have sworn they hit. Its been awhile so I must be nutts.

 

Will 5th gens have this option? I would love some camber plates

 

Read the thread nOOb!!!!

Hint: Post #14

 

Done deal! I want a set of camber plates (bottom)

 

UPDATES: Front style BOTTOM mount with STOCK springs

 

So far so good. Paul will test fit the bottom mount with his setup.

Camber/Caster top mounts for 2.5" coilovers should be next, test fitting to be done by me.

 

Very nice. I was wondering how this was coming along.

Sergofast, was the problem with the size of the pillow ***** ever resolved with the rear mounts??

 

Have you given any thought how to release some of the pressure weight on the spherical or stock strut bearing? When running negative camber I found that poly bearing really got chewed up easily when matched with a plate.

 

This will work for the cattman/progress coilovers right? Also which one is better, the top mount or bottom mount? Or is it more of a preference?

And I know that clearance for the strut bar on 5th gens are very close and will the top mounts make it not fit anymore? So, I'd assume that bottom mount would be better for my car.

1. sergofast: Top
2. Fast1one: Top
3. 98SEBlackMax: Top
4. ajm8127: Bottom
5. Big D: Bottom
6. The Law:

 

I think its more a fault of the plastic strut bearing. I've taken apart several suspensions on all sorts of Maximas and that bearing gets chewed up pretty bad.

Mark noted the bearing is not a great setup and we opted to use the stock bearing on the non-coilover version to reduce cost and have a longer service life. The assumption is the coilover cars will get more abuse and track use than non-coilover cars.

The coilover versions will not use the stock strut bearing, they will rely on Torrington needle bearings instead. The bearings are not sealed and need to be cleaned and regreased every so often. But they are cheaper than the stock plastic bearings and available online in case they do wear out.

 

I could be wrong, but it looks like the bottom mounts are for stock-style springs only, and the top is for coilovers only.

If I'm going to buy these, I feel like I should make the jump to coilovers, but without a real how-to thread for the GCs I'm a little nervous....hint hint....

 

Bottom mount can work for stock style or coilover. It all depends on the top hat that sits on top of the spring and adapts to the camber/caster plate.

So far Mark has the bottom mount stock spring and top mount coilover designs done for prototype testing. Bottom mount coilover plates can be made, we need the size of the coilover spring. Most springs are 2.5" but the JIC, D2, Ksport, etc. may have different sized springs. It is up to the customer to get that info.

The only issue is top mount will most likely not work with existing FSTBs. I don't use a FSTB so it doesn't matter to me. I have something better in mind.

 

Yep the GC upper hat is machined for the stock strut bearing. So you can use either style springs with the Stillen/Cusco style camber plate.

 

yes he is working on it and I should have the correct mounts in my hand soon. Accidentally installed the incorrect pillow ***** so he is re making them for me and I should have them next week.

Paul

 

Did you get anything in yet from Mark? I still haven't heard about the top mount plates. I want to test fit them and if everything fits OK I'm sending my Konis out for rebuild/revalve.

 

I have a set of JIC VIP on my 2k1. So my question is how does this mount is better then the one that come with the JIC ? Beside the extra travel I mean ? Less noise etc...

 

You can adjust caster and more travel if you get a top mount plate. Also the coilover style plates are coaxial where the plate doesn't mess with the spring, so the strut and spring stay parallel (coaxial) to each other. The Stillen plates are not coaxial when paired up with GCs or any other coilover setup. I know with my car on hard corners the springs dig into the threads of the GC adjusters and it causes some funky steering feel.

These plates are more for the people who build their own setups. People still chase after the Stillen plates paying around $250 for a used set, these are a better design.

 

Thanks for the answer, I will consider this product once my car is running, I hope to finish my build car in the following month.