MaximA StyLeZ

iTrader: (11)

Well, I have a 96 5spd. Maxima with ypipe/cat-back, and i've been debating what to do in the future with it. So, I have finally come upon what i want to do. Let me know what you guys think.


5th Gen Tranny/Clutch - $1200
JWT ECU w/ extended rev $500
00' VI -$450
AFC II- $250
Nitto 555R's Drag Radials - $250 (1.9 60 fts.') lol


* Are these prices just about correct obviously for used parts. My goal is to run Low 13's/210whp. Also, do I need the AFC and the ECU for tuning? I of course want the extended rev limit for the peak HP of the 00VI. I am confused and have read countless threads on this matter but dont have a clear answer.

What do you guys think i should do ?

scrhale

5th Gen Tranny is no different then ours other then the fact that it has dual synchros at 3rd gear. Just get the clutch. AFC is kinda optional since JWT will set A/F.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Those dual synchros might save that 3rd gears life. A33 5-speed ownz...

Mr.Duck

iTrader: (8)

if Greddy gets our cam signals right, than i would say forget jwt and get the emanage ultimate,

another .org member proved a good point to me, no matter what car you get in the future you can always transfer the EU, but not the JWT

your other mods look good, dont need the 5th gen tranny just the clutch

MaximA StyLeZ

iTrader: (11)

maybe ill jus throw in the DE-K ?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

If your current engine is fine, why?

If you're going to do a swap, put a 3.5L in there.

MaximA StyLeZ

iTrader: (11)

3.5 is too much and too many issues ...

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Then just leave the DE in there and add a DEK IM ... Much easier than doing an engine swap when nothing is wrong with your engine currently(besides a IM)

MaximA StyLeZ

iTrader: (11)

... tilley does complete swaps for $3k with the 3.5 motor ?

cantcatchme

iTrader: (1)

i wouldnt waste all the money and time on the 3.5 swap even tho that would be awesome, the best and cheapest thing would be the vi, i thought it wouldnt do much , but its great, and dont jwt get the greddy ultimate i think someone said that, plus if u really want power u can turbo it and the greddy would already have u covered with all u need, good luck

MaximA StyLeZ

iTrader: (11)

how much is the greddy ultimate ?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

A bit less than 1/2 a K .. or about there.

cantcatchme

iTrader: (1)

i think the emanage on ebay is as low as 350 , i think , lol, but u also probably want the ultimate pin harness, and i kno i want the other 14 ,12, 16 pin harnesses with the computer hook ups to tune other good stuff, and i heard that u can even take off ur rev limiter, what i want most, but only if ur cars revolutions are cut off from ur fuel injection, but if there cut from the ignition then thats a negative, i wonder which our cars do, if anyone knows please inform

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

If you do get a A33 tranny, you'll need the A33 CV joints as well. It not worth it to upgrade unless your tranny is already on its deathbed.

As for the DE-K or the 00VI, they cost the same and the full DE-K will come with all the parts you need. You might as well swap in a fresh engine when it costs $500 and the 00VI manifold itself is $450-500. It all depends on how much work you want to do.

If you do swap in a DE-K, get a SAFC so that your A/F won't be richy rich. Selling your old engine would pretty much offset the cost of the SAFC.

So with the SAFC and a DE-K, you'll have much more power than you had before, better timing, and better gas mileage on the freeway as well.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Huh?? Is this true?

SonicDust187

iTrader: (11)

I think you will only need a 5th gen drivers side axle.

scrhale

Be specific ... MEVI or 00VI. MEVI and JWT is just as expensive and will not compete against the full 3.5. 00VI and JWT is just a little better with low and mid so I can't imagine it would take full 3.5 either. The full 3.5 has its own VI that is not as good, but the extra displacement counters that.

MEVI - $450 minimum
00VI - $300 minimum
JWT - $500 minimum
Full 3.5 - $800 minimum

MEVI install I can imagine is by far easier than 00VI and 3.5 swap. BUT 00VI versus 3.5 difficulty I can imagine is comparable.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

... and the shifter sits slightly more back.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Where are you guys getting some of this info?

5th gen transmission doesn't have double synchros on 3rd gear. It has double baulk rings on 1st and 2nd gear. 95 and 96 4th gen transmissions had double baulk rings on 2nd gear only. 97-99 and 2001 transmissions have double baulk rings on 1st and 2nd gear. I don't know about the 2000 transmission because I don't have the FSM for it, but I'd assume it's the same as the 97-99 and 2001 setup.

You don't have to use 5th gen axles with a 5th gen transmission, the axles are interchangeable. The only issue with axles is that IF you get an LSD transmission you must get an LSD driver's side axle, it doesn't matter if it's a 4th gen VLSD axle (from an I30 or Canadian VLSD Maxima) or a 5th gen AE VLSD axle. I've used both in my AE LSD swap in my 4th gen.

JWT ECU is $595 + shipping plus the 8-12 week wait, not $500 (assuming you are talking about buying directly from JWT not a used one on the .org).

MaximA StyLeZ

iTrader: (11)

the reason why i would want to swap the DE-K is because I can prob get a good deal on the full DE-K including manual transmission. My tranny as you all know about the 4th gen tranny is on its way out ( bad grind in 3rd/redline)

So, I would pick the De-K with fresh, low-mileage tranny because i know that the tranny will bolt right up to my car. If i go 3.5 route , i wiould still need to buy a separate trans, due to 6spd. needing alot of work, which would cost more money as comapred to buying a whole package of 5th gen dek and trans.

Has any 1 dynoed a DE-K'd 4th gen, with some bolt-ons, and please list your mods. Thanks.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

Go look at the DE-K dynos. A properly tuned DE-K in a 4th gen will make the same power as it would in a 5th gen. If you go the 3.5 route, you wouldn't need a different tranny. The 4th gen tranny works fine.

MaximA StyLeZ

iTrader: (11)

my tranny isnt fine tho.... i need a rebuild/new one... so i could prob get a good deal on a DE-K full swap with tranny and motor.


I want to swap intake manifolds, so if the cost of this = a whole DE-K why not do this and get the benefit of a low-milege engine ?

Also, why wouldn't the DE-K produce more power, doesnt it have more hp and tq than the 4th gen 3.0 , and considering a 4th gen is lighter than the 5th ?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Highest 3.0L dyno I've seen comes from a 4th gen with DEK IM.

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

I agree that the cost is similiar and therefore swapping in the entire DE-K would be better.

The DE-K has bigger injectors and if you don't do any tuning, you will run rich, very rich and have less power than the DE-K with a 00-01 ECU. The DE-K is capable of a little more power than a 4th gen 3.0 with the 00VI. Over 40% of the parts were redesigned in the DE-K. It does have lighter parts inside and revs better. Having said that, the differences in power are very minor. Everything else being equal, I would say the difference is 2-5whp.

The DE-K in the 4th gen would need tuning more than the 3.5. Both the DE-K and the 3.5 have the same size fuel injectors. The 3.5 in a 4th gen will have the benefit of more displacement, more air and would run less rich than a DE-K.

The 4th gen chassis being lighter has nothing to do with how a DE-K would dyno. If you want to see how a dyno would be in your car, just look at a 00-01 with SAFC tuning. You'll have around 200-210whp with tuning and the typical bolt ons. Without tuning, just pulling number out of my @$$, 180whp.

JeEvE

iTrader: (10)

I currently have a full DE-K swap with no tuning at all so it is probably running very rich and it definitly seems like it is not putting down 200whp. I should be going to the dyno very so we will see how much a DE-K puts down on a stock 4th gen ecu. I have a S-AFC sitting around so when I get a chance Ill see how much I can get out of it with fixing the a/f.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

There have been at least 2 other instances where i've corrected you on this subject citing proof from a Nissan SAE technical paper, yet you continue to ignore my replies. Once and for all, there are no lighter parts internally in the DE-K. The major internal change was less clearance between the main journal and bearings for less noise and vibration. The fact that bolt-on DE-K's and bolt-on DE's with 00VI are putting out similar numbers should show you that no MAJOR internal components were touched. The intake cams are identical, except the cam timing is advanced a few degrees for better low-end. Exhaust cam timing is identical but the DE-K exhaust cams have slightly more lift to take care of the top-end. The overlap is the same at 6 degrees. You gonna continue to ignore my posts and spread misinformation?

I've learned that you in particular have a problem with being corrected. If someone corrects you, you ignore that poster and post later on in the thread without acknowledging their post, even if they quoted YOU. What's up with that?

MaximA StyLeZ

iTrader: (11)

Damn, thats a lot of work swapping a engine for 5 whp. Would you guys say that installing the 00vi is just as hard ? And, if i do the swap what ecu would be ideal to use ( My 4th gen, or 00-01). Also, would it be smart to go JWT route, and if so, will i have any probs ? Can i use my headers on the De-K and use my y-pipe/cat-back from my current 4th gen setup, I just wanna make sure of this.

Honestly to put down good #'s right now, i need to do something about my trans and the POS Key Value Kit. (SLippage is horrible)

Would some1 in North Jersey install this DE-K with trans for me ? And, tune with the AFC. If so, PM me and we'll talk.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Take care o your problem before taking on any other ventures...

Nice post nismology ..

Weimar Ben

iTrader: (5)

I wouldn't take the SAE technical doc as gospel. You have not posted the SAE white paper, and to do so would be contrary to copyright law anyways. I haven't read the SAE technical doc and am not going to pay the $12 to view it. The SAE technical doc for the VQ35DE shows it with the PF IM and not the 350z/g35 IM or the FWD IM.

I have seen numerious sources saying that some of the internals were reworked. It's not like I'm pulling this out of my @$$. Just because they show similiar numbers, doesn't mean that there's no differences. I have a VQ30DE in my 97 and a VQ30DE-K in my 2000 and the DE-K does seem to rev more freely and seems a little more refined. Is that proof of anything, nope.

There's little to be improved on with the VQ30 except for the $hitty IM, so any improvement there was with the DE-K with the internals, I would expect to be minor and show little, if any differences on a dyno.

I do have a life outside of maxima.org and don't see every post. I have to respectfully disagree with you that there is no differences in the DE-K and the DE other than the IM and the exhaust cams.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

The first SAE paper that describes the VQ30 engine (titled "Development of a New-Generation Lightweight 3-Liter V6 Nissan Engine") specifically mentions lightweight internal parts relative to the earlier VG30 engine. Perhaps that is what the sources are referring to?

There were two SAE papers that describe the VQ35. The first is titled "Second Generation of High Response V6 Engine Series (3.0 and 3.5 Liters)", in which both the VQ30DE-K and the Pathfinder VQ35 are described. This paper specifically mentions lightened internal parts for the VQ35, but makes no mention of lightened internals for the VQ30DE-K. If the sources are citing this paper as evidence of lightened internals in the DE-K as compared to the DE, then they are in error.

The second paper that describes the VQ35 is titled "Third Generation of High-Response and High-Output 3.5L V-6 Engine", and specifically describes the 350Z engine. The internal parts and the cylinder heads for the 350Z and the Maxima VQ35 engines are identical, of course.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

I could very easily e-mail it to you. And if the Nissan SAE technical document isn't a good source of information, what is?? So you're telling me you'd rather repeat (mis)information from 3rd-party sources than pay $12 to view a document written by nissan engineers??

That technical document dealt with the DE-K and first generation 3.5 (pathfinder). I have another doc that talks about the differences between the PF VQ and 350Z VQ, which like Stephen max said is the same internally as other FWD 3.5's.

Got link? Or copy? Perhaps those are some of the same sources that said the 3.5 had sodium-filled exhaust valves(SR20DEN disspelled that rumor some time ago), a timing belt, forged internals, and rocker arms.

I never said there were no differences. I just said the major internal differences are there first and foremost to lessen noise and vibration. Not to reduce rotating mass, increase power, or improve revability.

You're right. That proves nothing.

According to you, the DE-K has lighter internals and 40% of the internals were revised, yet you call those things minor?? I wouldn't call those minor improvements, nor would anyone else here with automotive knowledge worth a damn. So which is it, minor or not? Oh BTW, if it doesn't show up on a dyno or during the 1/4 mile, it's not there. It's wicked how the highest bolt-on 3.0 dyno that i know of on this site is a regular 'ole DE with 00VI, isn't it?

You choose to conveniently ignore posts. Don't dance around that fact...

That's fine. But it's one thing to disagree if you have credible, solid proof. And it's another to...........................

PS: Once again, i didn't say the IM and exhaust cams were the only difference. I said the only MAJOR internal change was the clearance being reduced between the main journals and rod bearings. The intake cams have different timing as well.