Any dyno comparisons of 00vi with it tied open or power valve removed?
02-08-2006, 03:40 PM
#41
Originally Posted by 95maxrider
Can you help explain why my car, with very similar mods to DandyMax, put down some 30 hp/tq less than his car? If we were both on Dynojet 248's, and dynoing in the same gear, there really shouldn't be such a large difference in our numbers. My AF ratio isn't perfect, and his aren't posted, but that can't account for the huge difference, can it?
My dyno and yours is relatively comparable and so is sloppymax's. So it still supports the SAE argument. Its hard to imagine that I'll be making 20hp but I haven't dyno'ed my new setup so its hard to tell
02-08-2006, 04:28 PM
#42
Originally Posted by Larrio
His dyno is freakishly high. Although he does have headers, no PS, ECU, 16" wheels, and A/F tuning
My dyno and yours is relatively comparable and so is sloppymax's. So it still supports the SAE argument. Its hard to imagine that I'll be making 20hp but I haven't dyno'ed my new setup so its hard to tell
My dyno and yours is relatively comparable and so is sloppymax's. So it still supports the SAE argument. Its hard to imagine that I'll be making 20hp but I haven't dyno'ed my new setup so its hard to tell
I also have an ECU, plus the other benefits of the full DEK, although I'm on 17's and with PS. Innovate LC-1 is most likely on it's way for accurate AF readings...then the ECU is back off to JWT to fine tune some things, such as larger injectors, richen it up above 6000, etc....
I sure would like to get my car on his dyno and see what it puts down on it....
02-08-2006, 08:14 PM
#44
I believe the dyno I use is accurate. But here's why I think so:
1) The day I dyno'd Speedemn came with me and dyno'd also. He is a full bolt-on 5-spd with MEVI (JWT, PF TB, UDP, I/Y/test/B, Flywheel, clutch, lightweight SSR's etc) and he put down about 207/200 SAE whp/wtq IIRC. Which is just about exactly what his previous dyno results were but done on a completely different dyno and in different weather conditions also.
2) Consider that I trapped about 101 mph in the 1/4 at a raceweight of about 3250 lbs!! with seizing wheel bearings - and that trap could have been a bit higher had I not run out of powerband and had to shift at the finish line because of only having a 6900 rpm limiter.
So to me those things together are a decent indicator that the power as shown on the dyno is reasonably close.
95maxrider: I did try opening the VI earlier such as 4850 or 4900 but 5000 produced the best results for me. It could vary slightly on other cars depending on mods though.
1) The day I dyno'd Speedemn came with me and dyno'd also. He is a full bolt-on 5-spd with MEVI (JWT, PF TB, UDP, I/Y/test/B, Flywheel, clutch, lightweight SSR's etc) and he put down about 207/200 SAE whp/wtq IIRC. Which is just about exactly what his previous dyno results were but done on a completely different dyno and in different weather conditions also.
2) Consider that I trapped about 101 mph in the 1/4 at a raceweight of about 3250 lbs!! with seizing wheel bearings - and that trap could have been a bit higher had I not run out of powerband and had to shift at the finish line because of only having a 6900 rpm limiter.
So to me those things together are a decent indicator that the power as shown on the dyno is reasonably close.
95maxrider: I did try opening the VI earlier such as 4850 or 4900 but 5000 produced the best results for me. It could vary slightly on other cars depending on mods though.
02-08-2006, 08:23 PM
#45
Originally Posted by DandyMax
I believe the dyno I use is accurate. But here's why I think so:
1) The day I dyno'd Speedemn came with me and dyno'd also. He is a full bolt-on 5-spd with MEVI (JWT, PF TB, UDP, I/Y/test/B, Flywheel, clutch, lightweight SSR's etc) and he put down about 207/200 SAE whp/wtq IIRC. Which is just about exactly what his previous dyno results were but done on a completely different dyno and in different weather conditions also.
2) Consider that I trapped about 101 mph in the 1/4 at a raceweight of about 3250 lbs!! with seizing wheel bearings - and that trap could have been a bit higher had I not run out of powerband and had to shift at the finish line because of only having a 6900 rpm limiter.
So to me those things together are a decent indicator that the power as shown on the dyno is reasonably close.
95maxrider: I did try opening the VI earlier such as 4850 or 4900 but 5000 produced the best results for me. It could vary slightly on other cars depending on mods though.
1) The day I dyno'd Speedemn came with me and dyno'd also. He is a full bolt-on 5-spd with MEVI (JWT, PF TB, UDP, I/Y/test/B, Flywheel, clutch, lightweight SSR's etc) and he put down about 207/200 SAE whp/wtq IIRC. Which is just about exactly what his previous dyno results were but done on a completely different dyno and in different weather conditions also.
2) Consider that I trapped about 101 mph in the 1/4 at a raceweight of about 3250 lbs!! with seizing wheel bearings - and that trap could have been a bit higher had I not run out of powerband and had to shift at the finish line because of only having a 6900 rpm limiter.
So to me those things together are a decent indicator that the power as shown on the dyno is reasonably close.
95maxrider: I did try opening the VI earlier such as 4850 or 4900 but 5000 produced the best results for me. It could vary slightly on other cars depending on mods though.
Since I can only open the VI at 4800 or 5000, 5000 may very well be the way to go. But I'll still check anyways
02-09-2006, 08:41 AM
#46
I'm just amazed where your power peaks not the peak value.
What is your mod list or is it some kind of secret?
Were the two runs you posted one from 3rd gear and one from 4th gear runs for the gear ratio difference?
What is your mod list or is it some kind of secret?
Were the two runs you posted one from 3rd gear and one from 4th gear runs for the gear ratio difference?
Originally Posted by DandyMax
I believe the dyno I use is accurate. But here's why I think so:
1) The day I dyno'd Speedemn came with me and dyno'd also. He is a full bolt-on 5-spd with MEVI (JWT, PF TB, UDP, I/Y/test/B, Flywheel, clutch, lightweight SSR's etc) and he put down about 207/200 SAE whp/wtq IIRC. Which is just about exactly what his previous dyno results were but done on a completely different dyno and in different weather conditions also.
2) Consider that I trapped about 101 mph in the 1/4 at a raceweight of about 3250 lbs!! with seizing wheel bearings - and that trap could have been a bit higher had I not run out of powerband and had to shift at the finish line because of only having a 6900 rpm limiter.
So to me those things together are a decent indicator that the power as shown on the dyno is reasonably close.
95maxrider: I did try opening the VI earlier such as 4850 or 4900 but 5000 produced the best results for me. It could vary slightly on other cars depending on mods though.
1) The day I dyno'd Speedemn came with me and dyno'd also. He is a full bolt-on 5-spd with MEVI (JWT, PF TB, UDP, I/Y/test/B, Flywheel, clutch, lightweight SSR's etc) and he put down about 207/200 SAE whp/wtq IIRC. Which is just about exactly what his previous dyno results were but done on a completely different dyno and in different weather conditions also.
2) Consider that I trapped about 101 mph in the 1/4 at a raceweight of about 3250 lbs!! with seizing wheel bearings - and that trap could have been a bit higher had I not run out of powerband and had to shift at the finish line because of only having a 6900 rpm limiter.
So to me those things together are a decent indicator that the power as shown on the dyno is reasonably close.
95maxrider: I did try opening the VI earlier such as 4850 or 4900 but 5000 produced the best results for me. It could vary slightly on other cars depending on mods though.
02-09-2006, 09:45 AM
#47
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
I'm just amazed where your power peaks not the peak value.
What is your mod list or is it some kind of secret?
Were the two runs you posted one from 3rd gear and one from 4th gear runs for the gear ratio difference?
What is your mod list or is it some kind of secret?
Were the two runs you posted one from 3rd gear and one from 4th gear runs for the gear ratio difference?
02-09-2006, 10:35 AM
#48
Alex the mod list was linked in the thread NmexMAX gave.. but here's the main things:
I/H/Y/test/B
UDP
00VI
JWT and EU (fuel tuning only)
no PS
Yes one run was 3rd gear and one 4th gear.
As for the power peak I think I can move it a little higher up yet. Or at least decrease the slight drop off past the peak point. I did that dyno with a crappy Injen intake. I will be doing some custom intake stuff this spring and I'm sure I can improve the top end curve a bit yet.
I/H/Y/test/B
UDP
00VI
JWT and EU (fuel tuning only)
no PS
Yes one run was 3rd gear and one 4th gear.
As for the power peak I think I can move it a little higher up yet. Or at least decrease the slight drop off past the peak point. I did that dyno with a crappy Injen intake. I will be doing some custom intake stuff this spring and I'm sure I can improve the top end curve a bit yet.
02-09-2006, 10:51 AM
#49
Originally Posted by DandyMax
95maxrider: I did try opening the VI earlier such as 4850 or 4900 but 5000 produced the best results for me. It could vary slightly on other cars depending on mods though.
02-09-2006, 11:19 AM
#51
Neal,
If you do decide the midrange loss isn't a big deal and pull the PV, you should DEFINITELY open up the square VIAS chamber ports and unshroud the overhang infront of them.
Square Port and Shroud:
Shroud:
I think the DEK IM could flow much better with a few minor tweaks.
If you do decide the midrange loss isn't a big deal and pull the PV, you should DEFINITELY open up the square VIAS chamber ports and unshroud the overhang infront of them.
Square Port and Shroud:
Shroud:
I think the DEK IM could flow much better with a few minor tweaks.
02-09-2006, 12:24 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Neal,
If you do decide the midrange loss isn't a big deal and pull the PV, you should DEFINITELY open up the square VIAS chamber ports and unshroud the overhang infront of them.
I think the DEK IM could flow much better with a few minor tweaks.
If you do decide the midrange loss isn't a big deal and pull the PV, you should DEFINITELY open up the square VIAS chamber ports and unshroud the overhang infront of them.
I think the DEK IM could flow much better with a few minor tweaks.
02-09-2006, 12:52 PM
#53
I too think there's some room for improvement up high if you don't mind the midrange loss.
It's a composite plastic. You can port it easily if you are careful and there's adequate material.
It's a composite plastic. You can port it easily if you are careful and there's adequate material.
02-09-2006, 01:04 PM
#54
The disruption in flow would only happen if the PV was still in place and closed. Removing the lip would help smooth air entering the VIAS chamber once the PV opens or if removed.
Turning a square into a circle/oval will improve flow, so that's not an issue.
Turning a square into a circle/oval will improve flow, so that's not an issue.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
I don't know, you could mess up laminar flow. Also, what is the DE-K manifold made of? You might not be able to port the intake.
02-09-2006, 01:26 PM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by DandyMax
I too think there's some room for improvement up high if you don't mind the midrange loss.
It's a composite plastic. You can port it easily if you are careful and there's adequate material.
It's a composite plastic. You can port it easily if you are careful and there's adequate material.
02-09-2006, 01:41 PM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
StephenMax has done far more then porting and it held up fine.
Are you thinking the material is too thin or just weak?
Are you thinking the material is too thin or just weak?
02-09-2006, 05:04 PM
#59
Yeah I wasn't referring to porting in the truest sense of the word.. more like what Ice is describing.
But really the only point I was making was that the plastic can be worked on in a similar manner to metal as long as there's enough material. This I have personally done on an 00VI.
But really the only point I was making was that the plastic can be worked on in a similar manner to metal as long as there's enough material. This I have personally done on an 00VI.
02-09-2006, 07:06 PM
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
I doubt anyone will get flowbench results.
It isn't really porting per say...more like removing excess material overhang and from what I've seen wouldn't have much if any strength issues.
It isn't really porting per say...more like removing excess material overhang and from what I've seen wouldn't have much if any strength issues.
02-10-2006, 08:42 AM
#61
That's true when changing port size for volume vs. velocity, but not removing these obvious restrictions.
Originally Posted by MAX2000JP
It's worth a try, but you are wasting your time without flowbench testing it. I've even heard of people loosing hp due to porting. It's a fine art and you have to know what you are doing.
02-10-2006, 09:33 AM
#62
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
That's true when changing port size for volume vs. velocity, but not removing these obvious restrictions.
From those pics, it looks pretty difficult to get to that restriction???
02-10-2006, 10:18 AM
#66
I'm not saying you're going to get everything perfect in there with these. It would probably be impossible to get the bottom of the square without cutting open the bottom of the VAIS chamber and gluing it back like Tilley did.
The overhang is what I think would help optimize for no PV and that should be no problem with one of these.
The overhang is what I think would help optimize for no PV and that should be no problem with one of these.
02-10-2006, 10:19 AM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Exactly, increasing both isn't a bad thing. It's when you have a tradeoff between the two that you need a flowbench.
If I can take a picture of them with my POS camera, they can be reached.
If I can take a picture of them with my POS camera, they can be reached.
Reached with what though?
02-10-2006, 10:41 AM
#69
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
I agree...what kind of shops do that stuff?
See above....
See above....
02-10-2006, 10:45 AM
#70
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,151
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
Cheap route $30:
03-03-2006, 01:18 PM
#71
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by IceY2K1
I'm just amazed where your power peaks not the peak value.
What is your mod list or is it some kind of secret?
Were the two runs you posted one from 3rd gear and one from 4th gear runs for the gear ratio difference?
What is your mod list or is it some kind of secret?
Were the two runs you posted one from 3rd gear and one from 4th gear runs for the gear ratio difference?
03-04-2006, 11:52 AM
#73
neal, I posted eckohb's runs a while ago. One was with the 00vi opening at 1200rpm and the other at ~5200rpm.
1: base line
2: Best overall run
3: Highest Torque
4. VI opened at 1200 rpm, just for fun
1: base line
2: Best overall run
3: Highest Torque
4. VI opened at 1200 rpm, just for fun
03-13-2006, 06:58 AM
#76
Hey guys, I just ran into this thread. The mods for my car(Nathan's runfiles) at the time of the dyno are listed in my sig. Just got the gen2 headers installed and as soon as we fix an exhaust leak, I will dyno again, with the only difference being the cattman y vs. the cattman gen2 headers. I tried the jbweld repair for the vias a couple of times and got tired of f*cking with it so I just yanked it out.
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