3.5 swap no start...
3.5 swap no start...
I tried to start it tonight and all it does is crank and crank but no start. I know I have fuel and spark because I'm smelling out exhaust and pop from the exhaust. One thing I noticed from pass swaps (3.0), I saw some fluctuation of the tach when I crank it while this one, the tach needle doesn't move. This leads me to believe maybe a CPS issue, I check the harness wiring for the CPS and from the FSM, it matches the wires, I'm wondering if the CPS is sitting too far away from the flywheel, is there anyway to check without pulling the trans? Before I bolted the trans on, the flywheel was sitting up on the CPS sensor like normal, it wasn't anything abnormal about it. I'm using a 3.5 oil pan with a 3.5 sensor, on the tranny side the sensor doesn't sit flush like the oil pan side...
Other than that I have no idea what else to check. While cranking I also hear this clicking from the timing cover area... near bank one. That makes me a little worried but I figure I don't have enough oil pressure for the chain to be fully tensioned. Any ideas would be wonderful.
Other than that I have no idea what else to check. While cranking I also hear this clicking from the timing cover area... near bank one. That makes me a little worried but I figure I don't have enough oil pressure for the chain to be fully tensioned. Any ideas would be wonderful.
Originally Posted by JClaw
The 3.5 CPS has 3 wires too, just invert two of them, cant remember which. The ground is the same I think its the other two that need to be inverted. I never took off my 3.5 oil pan and never grinded anything on my first swap two years ago.
Hopefully someone else can expand on this.
BTW, yea the tach should definitely be fluttering while cranking. I would try switching the two non-ground wires around.
Comparing to the 3.0 harness: all the wires were color match when I wired them, now I inverted the white and red wires. Checked ground wires and same thing, no tach response. Also I notice when I turn the key, my temp needle would sit a tap about C, like the engine was already luke warm... this while the engine is cold.
ECTS is plugged in. I will have to check some sensors when there is more light.
Forgot to mention that I have DW650cc injectors, FP is 37PSI and running on open headers right now since my feedpipe doesn't exactly fit the SS autochrome shorty headers. The rear o2 is not plugged in but I don't think that has anything to do with the starting issue rather more of a idling or driving issue. I used the DEK rear injector harness but rewired 3.0 plugged at the main secondary plug, there was like 6-8 wires but were all matched in position with the plugs.
Forgot to mention that I have DW650cc injectors, FP is 37PSI and running on open headers right now since my feedpipe doesn't exactly fit the SS autochrome shorty headers. The rear o2 is not plugged in but I don't think that has anything to do with the starting issue rather more of a idling or driving issue. I used the DEK rear injector harness but rewired 3.0 plugged at the main secondary plug, there was like 6-8 wires but were all matched in position with the plugs.
Originally Posted by jcy98maxse
Also I notice when I turn the key, my temp needle would sit a tap about C, like the engine was already luke warm... this while the engine is cold.
Originally Posted by nismology
Definitely sounds like a grounding issue. Check battery terminal connections and your harness grounds.
Pull some code: 01/08; 05/02;
02/10 fuel injection system... maybe I'm recheck my injector wiring.
okay, I reground the harness. Also rewired the CPS harness so it was color matched. I cranked it and its still the same issue. However, when I press the gas, it came to live for a split sec and actually sputters, I had smoke coming out the exhaust and my tach actually moved. I pulled the plug and it was soaked in fuel on bank 2.
Also this is 6months old gas thats in the tank, do you think it could have gone stale?
Code wise, I reset the ecu and now the only thing that comes up is EGR. 10/05
Also this is 6months old gas thats in the tank, do you think it could have gone stale?
Code wise, I reset the ecu and now the only thing that comes up is EGR. 10/05
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,572
From: Middleboro/Carver, Ma
Crimp connectors ftl, though I'm guilty of the same thing, at least try to use the gold-plated audio ones, for future reference. Anyways, sounds exactly like when I pulled my tranny once and didn't know about that problem I linked you to in the other thread.
YAY!!! It started! I put the stock injectors back in and pedal the gas a little and it started but it would not stay running. I have codes for 7/1 (multiple misfired) 09/01 rear o2 (not hooked up), 10/05 and 13/02 are EGR and MAP. What do I need to get it to idle? I'm thinking I can mess around with the TB screw but I have to keep the RPM around 1-1.2k to have it not shudder.
okay, i messed around with the TB screw and I made a better, stronger TB cable bracket and now she idle fine! Its sitting about 900rpm and no more misfire, just loud open headers. This relieved a lot of my stress! Thanks everyone for all the help, I'll post a video in a little of it idling.
Let your car idle as LITTLE as possible. At dead stops either rev it up and down or turn off your car if possible. Most of the time the engine spends on before it's broken in should be fairly hard on the throttle and if you're cruising on the highway, varying RPM's as much as possible. Setting cruise control at 70 MPH is just as bad as idling. Again, try to avoid unnecessary idling.
No WOT to redline yet though but don't be afraid to give it some lovin'. An easy break-in is probably the worst thing you can do for a rebuilt/new engine short of not changing the oil on time. Speaking of which, I'd change the oil after the first 50 miles. Most of the wear from the new bearing/rings occurs during this window.
No WOT to redline yet though but don't be afraid to give it some lovin'. An easy break-in is probably the worst thing you can do for a rebuilt/new engine short of not changing the oil on time. Speaking of which, I'd change the oil after the first 50 miles. Most of the wear from the new bearing/rings occurs during this window.
okay just got back from my friends shop where we remade a rear section of my feedpipe. Car starts fine and is a lot quieter even than the 3.0 but a couple of problem we noticed:
1.) We started the motor and he notice that the breather port on the front spark plug cover, there is vacuum coming from it and its pretty stronger suction. This worries me, any idea why its doing this? He says that we can potentially fix it but routing a hose to the intake(before turbo) in hopes that that suction from the turbo is stronger than the crankcase vacuum. What problems will I be facing with this?
2. The WB is showing extremely lean A/F. I'm guessing that the z32 maf with stock injectors may be causing this issue. There is no fluctuation on the WB, its at max lean. I've babied back to my house which was about 3 miles away. My FP is set at 37 with vacuum to it, also I will try to switch those 650cc back in there maybe it will start and fix this issue.
3. I'm still getting multiple misfires or at aleast one since my CEL is flashing. I'm hoping that the "so call" vacuum leak from the crankcase (which isn't suppose to have vacuum) is causing the issue.
4. Smoke still coming from the exhaust, hopefully when the ring finally sit, that will go away.
Other than that I'm happy it finally started and now its all debugging.
1.) We started the motor and he notice that the breather port on the front spark plug cover, there is vacuum coming from it and its pretty stronger suction. This worries me, any idea why its doing this? He says that we can potentially fix it but routing a hose to the intake(before turbo) in hopes that that suction from the turbo is stronger than the crankcase vacuum. What problems will I be facing with this?
2. The WB is showing extremely lean A/F. I'm guessing that the z32 maf with stock injectors may be causing this issue. There is no fluctuation on the WB, its at max lean. I've babied back to my house which was about 3 miles away. My FP is set at 37 with vacuum to it, also I will try to switch those 650cc back in there maybe it will start and fix this issue.
3. I'm still getting multiple misfires or at aleast one since my CEL is flashing. I'm hoping that the "so call" vacuum leak from the crankcase (which isn't suppose to have vacuum) is causing the issue.
4. Smoke still coming from the exhaust, hopefully when the ring finally sit, that will go away.
Other than that I'm happy it finally started and now its all debugging.
Did some more work on the car.. I can't get the 650cc to idle no matter what the FP is set at, at low psi (ie 20-25psi) it will start but fail to idle after a few tries. The motor will rev but would ultimately die after a few seconds if I let the rpm drop, the WB still showing anywhere from 15.3-17.5+ until it dies. At higher psi (ie 30+) it would not start, just sputter.
Swap stock injectors back in and it will start everytime but it will just sit @ 21.0 a/f which is the max it reads on the WB, while driving it stays there but sometimes it will drop to 16-18a/f when partial throttle, the FP is set at 51psi even though its not necessary but it didn't make it run any richer. On the way down to my friend's shop, running on open headers, it was fluctuating from 16-18a/f when crusing but now it sits at 21.0 90% of the time.
I'm still getting a flashing CEL with the stock injectors, code is still 07/01 but no specific cylinder code. Picked up a 03/07 code for the first time, its the even cylinders/front o2. Could bad o2(s) cause the car to run so lean regardless of injector size? I have EU, should I install that and could that allow me to run the 650cc injectors? I haven't installed EU exactly for the reasons that the swap would take some time debugging, installing and troubleshooting EU along with this would be too much all at once but if it would better the situation, I can install the unit.
Swap stock injectors back in and it will start everytime but it will just sit @ 21.0 a/f which is the max it reads on the WB, while driving it stays there but sometimes it will drop to 16-18a/f when partial throttle, the FP is set at 51psi even though its not necessary but it didn't make it run any richer. On the way down to my friend's shop, running on open headers, it was fluctuating from 16-18a/f when crusing but now it sits at 21.0 90% of the time.
I'm still getting a flashing CEL with the stock injectors, code is still 07/01 but no specific cylinder code. Picked up a 03/07 code for the first time, its the even cylinders/front o2. Could bad o2(s) cause the car to run so lean regardless of injector size? I have EU, should I install that and could that allow me to run the 650cc injectors? I haven't installed EU exactly for the reasons that the swap would take some time debugging, installing and troubleshooting EU along with this would be too much all at once but if it would better the situation, I can install the unit.
It might be hard to get the 650's to run without some type of scaling them down, quite possibly impossible. (I/J Adj and Lagging at idle with the EU)
Make sure your oil doesnt get contaminated easily with alot of cranking with the 650's. Thats alot of fuel man
With the car at 21's a/f, are you feeling alot of missing in the motor ?? When I had that huge vac leak, and I was seeing 17's and 18's, I had alot of hickupping at idle. Very inconsistant.
-matt
Make sure your oil doesnt get contaminated easily with alot of cranking with the 650's. Thats alot of fuel man
With the car at 21's a/f, are you feeling alot of missing in the motor ?? When I had that huge vac leak, and I was seeing 17's and 18's, I had alot of hickupping at idle. Very inconsistant.
-matt
I agree with kevlo911.
Treat it like an N/A 3.5
Install the stock y pipe & injectors.
Compression test/Timing
Fix your o2's/Pcv/vacum leak/Idle
Then throw that bad azz Turbo setup back in FTW.
Treat it like an N/A 3.5
Install the stock y pipe & injectors.
Compression test/Timing
Fix your o2's/Pcv/vacum leak/Idle
Then throw that bad azz Turbo setup back in FTW.
I have stock injectors in there right now and thats where I'm having issues. It runs super lean regardless of my FP and thats why I think their either bad or real dirty. I can't go NA because I have no stock ypipe and my return line is tap at the oil pan.
As far as I know I have no vacuum leaks but I will fix my o2's. The only option I have right now is probably install the EU, put in the 650cc and scale the injectors back at idle. What FP should I be running with those injectors? I think 51psi is way too much.
The motor feels like its missing and hiccup at idle, rev wise its feels better not still feels similar to a unplugged MAF except I can rev higher than 2200rpm. I can't give it a good enough break in with these conditions so maybe EU install is what I have to do.
Anyone have any idea about why my crankcase porter where the breather goes has vacuum?
As far as I know I have no vacuum leaks but I will fix my o2's. The only option I have right now is probably install the EU, put in the 650cc and scale the injectors back at idle. What FP should I be running with those injectors? I think 51psi is way too much.
The motor feels like its missing and hiccup at idle, rev wise its feels better not still feels similar to a unplugged MAF except I can rev higher than 2200rpm. I can't give it a good enough break in with these conditions so maybe EU install is what I have to do.
Anyone have any idea about why my crankcase porter where the breather goes has vacuum?
That's the pressure that the stock fuel pressure regulator allows for with the stock pump.
There are two potential advantages to using an AFPR:
1. Converting to a semi-returnless fuel system keeps the fuel a bit cooler and prevents it from heatsoaking as much. There a few theoretical (and perhaps practical) advantages to this. Slightly better power, economy, and less fuel lost to evaporation.
2. If you're using a S/V-AFC to tune the a/f ratio, you can bump up pressure and remove fuel with the AFC device and advance the timing indirectly.
With that said, there's nothing wrong with using the stock FPR with the 3.5 and/or running stock fuel pressure (43.5 PSI @ zero vacuum/wot).
There are two potential advantages to using an AFPR:
1. Converting to a semi-returnless fuel system keeps the fuel a bit cooler and prevents it from heatsoaking as much. There a few theoretical (and perhaps practical) advantages to this. Slightly better power, economy, and less fuel lost to evaporation.
2. If you're using a S/V-AFC to tune the a/f ratio, you can bump up pressure and remove fuel with the AFC device and advance the timing indirectly.
With that said, there's nothing wrong with using the stock FPR with the 3.5 and/or running stock fuel pressure (43.5 PSI @ zero vacuum/wot).
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,572
From: Middleboro/Carver, Ma
Originally Posted by jcy98maxse
I have stock injectors in there right now and thats where I'm having issues. It runs super lean regardless of my FP and thats why I think their either bad or real dirty.
The thing about injectors is it's either they're firing or they're not. There's no in between with them. I think it's more of a physical issue than an electrical one, personally.
Originally Posted by KRRZ350
hahahhaha, how did we miss this one...........
Check the rear pcv valve........
Check the rear pcv valve........
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,572
From: Middleboro/Carver, Ma
The pcv is a 1-way valve that allows + pressure to escape from the engine, while not allowing suction from the manifold side. If it were stuck/sticking it would create a massive vacuum leak, and it explains that suction your experiencing from the breather on the other valve-cover. Quickest way to check, just slap a pair of vise grips on the hose between rear pcv and IM, other option is to suck on the top side and see if it allows vacuum through, you can do this in or out of the valve cover, you can also just shake it and make sure the valve isn't stuck, however sucking on it, or using a vacuum pump if you like to keep it 'professional' is the better way to go, but just clamp the hose shut with some large vise-grips first.
Originally Posted by KRRZ350
The pcv is a 1-way valve that allows + pressure to escape from the engine, while not allowing suction from the manifold side. If it were stuck/sticking it would create a massive vacuum leak, and it explains that suction your experiencing from the breather on the other valve-cover. Quickest way to check, just slap a pair of vise grips on the hose between rear pcv and IM, other option is to suck on the top side and see if it allows vacuum through, you can do this in or out of the valve cover, you can also just shake it and make sure the valve isn't stuck, however sucking on it, or using a vacuum pump if you like to keep it 'professional' is the better way to go, but just clamp the hose shut with some large vise-grips first.
I was wondering if a compression test would tell me if I have a cracked pistons ring? Since I didn't install the rings myself, I'm uncertain if this is the reason why I'm blowing out a good amount of smoke out the exhaust or if its just a break in issue.
I put synthetic M1 in on accident and left it in for a few days prior to start up and drove about 3 miles before I realized what I did, I did a oil change with conventional oil and so far I only have racked up a total of like 12miles including the 3miles with M1, I haven't been able to drive it with the fuel issue and expired plates but I'm hoping that my noobie mistake hasn't cause me to mess up my motor and it being the reason why its smoking so much.
I'm the in process of install the EU, should be able to finish up tomorrow. I will check the PCV and install the DW injectors. With the EU, I'm assuming I'll have to tell it that I'm running bigger injectors and will it compensate for me automatically or do I need to mess around with the INJ maps? I haven't had a chance to look at the software yet.
I put synthetic M1 in on accident and left it in for a few days prior to start up and drove about 3 miles before I realized what I did, I did a oil change with conventional oil and so far I only have racked up a total of like 12miles including the 3miles with M1, I haven't been able to drive it with the fuel issue and expired plates but I'm hoping that my noobie mistake hasn't cause me to mess up my motor and it being the reason why its smoking so much.
I'm the in process of install the EU, should be able to finish up tomorrow. I will check the PCV and install the DW injectors. With the EU, I'm assuming I'll have to tell it that I'm running bigger injectors and will it compensate for me automatically or do I need to mess around with the INJ maps? I haven't had a chance to look at the software yet.