When will the 3.5swap give me a break :(
#1
When will the 3.5swap give me a break :(
Well, my last motor went bye bye awhile ago due to stupid mistakes on my behalf so now i have the new one in. 2004 3.5 out of a nissan quest. Everything the same, just the CPS(flywheel) mounts at the bottom of the motor rather then the side across from the radiator.
The problem is, when i 1st got the swap in, everything was running ok i guess, as it does now. Idles fine, starts normal doesnt misfire, but now ive noticed, after about 5800rpms, my car doesnt pull. 3rd-4th gear, itll take about 3secs to get from 6k to 6.5k.
Ive checked my
-fuel pressure(its holding steady),
-fuel pump is good from what i can tell because fuel psi doesnt drop off at redline.
-battery voltage is fine
-Brand new KS(470ohm resistor is in right now)
not getting ANY codes for CPS(ref),CPS(POS), Coolant temp sensor, CamPS. Voltage is normal on my MAF and TPS
-No vaccum leaks
NOTHING!!
I also noticed this problem on my last motor a little before it blew, it would still pull but started getting weaker uptop.
The only thing that has been reused on the motor is the gutted UIM, fuel injectors,fuel rail and cam adapters. Ive even tried swapping ECU's and with the JWT ECU with a 7.2k rev limit and 17* timing, i did a 13.89@100.1 with a 2.01 60ft? WTF
SO my question is, is this CAM timing related, or possibly IGNITION timing related?
im completely lost, only side note is that one of the cam adapters(intake side on bank 1 near the firewall), the dowel pin was wearing out the predrilled hole on the aluminum adapter, and looked like it might come out. So i had to use 1 size bigger stud to rethread it and POSSIBLY the stud could also be bending/leaning and causing delayed/advance timing on the intake on the rear bank. IDK
Also, my intake note/tone is ALOT louder than normal at WOT.
The problem is, when i 1st got the swap in, everything was running ok i guess, as it does now. Idles fine, starts normal doesnt misfire, but now ive noticed, after about 5800rpms, my car doesnt pull. 3rd-4th gear, itll take about 3secs to get from 6k to 6.5k.
Ive checked my
-fuel pressure(its holding steady),
-fuel pump is good from what i can tell because fuel psi doesnt drop off at redline.
-battery voltage is fine
-Brand new KS(470ohm resistor is in right now)
not getting ANY codes for CPS(ref),CPS(POS), Coolant temp sensor, CamPS. Voltage is normal on my MAF and TPS
-No vaccum leaks
NOTHING!!
I also noticed this problem on my last motor a little before it blew, it would still pull but started getting weaker uptop.
The only thing that has been reused on the motor is the gutted UIM, fuel injectors,fuel rail and cam adapters. Ive even tried swapping ECU's and with the JWT ECU with a 7.2k rev limit and 17* timing, i did a 13.89@100.1 with a 2.01 60ft? WTF
SO my question is, is this CAM timing related, or possibly IGNITION timing related?
im completely lost, only side note is that one of the cam adapters(intake side on bank 1 near the firewall), the dowel pin was wearing out the predrilled hole on the aluminum adapter, and looked like it might come out. So i had to use 1 size bigger stud to rethread it and POSSIBLY the stud could also be bending/leaning and causing delayed/advance timing on the intake on the rear bank. IDK
Also, my intake note/tone is ALOT louder than normal at WOT.
Last edited by ghostmax301; 04-28-2009 at 02:26 PM.
#2
damn, this sucks.
but hey, if youre worried about your cam adaptors, i wouldnt feel comfortable selling mine to you, lol. they were stripped out also. But i was told that as long as the sprockets are bolted down tight, that the dowel pins dont really hold any weight...is this true?
but hey, if youre worried about your cam adaptors, i wouldnt feel comfortable selling mine to you, lol. they were stripped out also. But i was told that as long as the sprockets are bolted down tight, that the dowel pins dont really hold any weight...is this true?
#3
Might be a Ignition Timing issue, do you have a way of logging the timing? maximaspd85, iv only seen one case where the adapters failed, might have been installer error, who knows, but it was one very rare case, i truly do not believe the dowel pins hold the pressure, its mostly the tightening of the bolt.
Ghostmax, try what JClaw in a recent post on his 1/4 thread said:
I should also mention that all 3.5 swappers should ground their knock sensors directly to the negative pole of their battery if they want uninterrupted, instant full timing all the time.
I have had several 3.5 swaps and when the car is untuned it runs rich and tends to have full timing only 50% of the time, sometimes none at all. I mix 91 and 94 octane to be safe. 100% of the swaps I have done have had the intermittent timing power issue. This is why so many of the 3.5 swappers are dissapointed. They go from a preppy 3.0 with full on timing to a pig rich 3.5 with 15 degrees of timing WOT instead of 3.5. Nissan knock sensors suck, and they need to be dealt with.
There, I got it out of my system.
Ghostmax, try what JClaw in a recent post on his 1/4 thread said:
I should also mention that all 3.5 swappers should ground their knock sensors directly to the negative pole of their battery if they want uninterrupted, instant full timing all the time.
I have had several 3.5 swaps and when the car is untuned it runs rich and tends to have full timing only 50% of the time, sometimes none at all. I mix 91 and 94 octane to be safe. 100% of the swaps I have done have had the intermittent timing power issue. This is why so many of the 3.5 swappers are dissapointed. They go from a preppy 3.0 with full on timing to a pig rich 3.5 with 15 degrees of timing WOT instead of 3.5. Nissan knock sensors suck, and they need to be dealt with.
There, I got it out of my system.
#4
"Also, my intake note/tone is ALOT louder than normal at WOT."
Tell us about your IM. Are you using the VIAS w/ a window switch? If your window switch is malfunctioning, your top end will be terrible and your intake sound will change.
Tell us about your IM. Are you using the VIAS w/ a window switch? If your window switch is malfunctioning, your top end will be terrible and your intake sound will change.
#7
well im using the same UIM i used to run the 13.5. i swear it sounds and feels like its related to the intake system somehow mut idk where. not sure of my afrs bt have tried changing my fuel psi from 34 to 45 to 50 to 60 and nothing helps.
#8
And what system are you using? SSIM? Block off plate? VIAS with window switch?
#9
its a gutted manifold and cut-off butterfly valve. SSIM i guess. its a rainy day today so cant do much but going to try and swap out the LIM and UIM for another or even just checking mine for something clogging it i wish we thre codes for these thing like jumped/bad timing or lack of power.lol
Last edited by ghostmax301; 04-29-2009 at 08:26 AM.
#11
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Also, if the sound is weird and it's not pulling up top, see if something is clogging your intake track (all the way to your filter). You could have sucked something into your MAF screen and be hurting on flow badly.
#12
This seems very unlikely but... what your describing sounds almost exactly like what my friends G35 is doing.
He has an AEM CAI routed to the lower grill area with no bypass. His mom drove it through a large puddle and it hydrolocked of course.
I figured the motor was a complete loss, but he begged me to try something. So I drained the oil/water from the drain plug. Took off the upper and lower intake manifolds and turned the crank to push the water out, changed all plugs, new oil, etc. I put everything back together and turned the key. The car started up and idled perfect. No misfire or anything.
To make a long story short, the car drives normal under light throttle and low RPMs. But if you floor it, at around 4k-5krpm the intake gets extremely loud and the car has little to no power. It almost sounds like the car has an exhaust leak by the driver side intake manifold. But it's coming from the intake.
I know it's a different car, different timing setup, different intake manifold, etc. But the cars are doing almost exactly the same thing so I just thought I'd throw it out there.
He has an AEM CAI routed to the lower grill area with no bypass. His mom drove it through a large puddle and it hydrolocked of course.
I figured the motor was a complete loss, but he begged me to try something. So I drained the oil/water from the drain plug. Took off the upper and lower intake manifolds and turned the crank to push the water out, changed all plugs, new oil, etc. I put everything back together and turned the key. The car started up and idled perfect. No misfire or anything.
To make a long story short, the car drives normal under light throttle and low RPMs. But if you floor it, at around 4k-5krpm the intake gets extremely loud and the car has little to no power. It almost sounds like the car has an exhaust leak by the driver side intake manifold. But it's coming from the intake.
I know it's a different car, different timing setup, different intake manifold, etc. But the cars are doing almost exactly the same thing so I just thought I'd throw it out there.
#13
i REALLY appreciate all the help guys! the rain has stop so i going out to swap my entire intake and MAF,and UIM. going to take the resistor out of the KS wire and mount the KS ontop of the NEG battery terminal(correct?) and screw it down. also going to check the oil for water and try what you did essential. i have no splashguard on the driverside so its possible that happened
#14
i REALLY appreciate all the help guys! the rain has stop so i going out to swap my entire intake and MAF,and UIM. going to take the resistor out of the KS wire and mount the KS ontop of the NEG battery terminal(correct?) and screw it down. also going to check the oil for water and try what you did essential. i have no splashguard on the driverside so its possible that happened
#15
i REALLY appreciate all the help guys! the rain has stop so i going out to swap my entire intake and MAF,and UIM. going to take the resistor out of the KS wire and mount the KS ontop of the NEG battery terminal(correct?) and screw it down. also going to check the oil for water and try what you did essential. i have no splashguard on the driverside so its possible that happened
#16
i REALLY appreciate all the help guys! the rain has stop so i going out to swap my entire intake and MAF,and UIM. going to take the resistor out of the KS wire and mount the KS ontop of the NEG battery terminal(correct?) and screw it down. also going to check the oil for water and try what you did essential. i have no splashguard on the driverside so its possible that happened
#17
i REALLY appreciate all the help guys! the rain has stop so i going out to swap my entire intake and MAF,and UIM. going to take the resistor out of the KS wire and mount the KS ontop of the NEG battery terminal(correct?) and screw it down. also going to check the oil for water and try what you did essential. i have no splashguard on the driverside so its possible that happened
#18
The 470k ohm resistor bypasses the KS completely. Fools the ECM into thinking his KS is in working order and as a result doesnt pull timing. So in regards to the OP removing the resistor and hooking up the KS to the negative battery post, it wont make any difference because the resistor performs the same function.
#19
The 470k ohm resistor bypasses the KS completely. Fools the ECM into thinking his KS is in working order and as a result doesnt pull timing. So in regards to the OP removing the resistor and hooking up the KS to the negative battery post, it wont make any difference because the resistor performs the same function.
I only got to change out the MAF today due to a personal to-do list for the day but that yeilded little to no difference in the performance. it felt a little smoother but not any faster. Going to try the UIM and LOWER tomorrow
its just weird to me because just the other day i beat a modded 08 3.5 altima coupe and i had 3 passengers, chrome 19"s and 2-12" subs and now im losing to a RX-8 with an exhaust
is there any sensor on the car that can read incorrectly but not throw a code(CPS,CMPS,CTS)?
#20
ok, thank you for clearing that up, i wasnt 100% sure they did the samething.
I only got to change out the MAF today due to a personal to-do list for the day but that yeilded little to no difference in the performance. it felt a little smoother but not any faster. Going to try the UIM and LOWER tomorrow
its just weird to me because just the other day i beat a modded 08 3.5 altima coupe and i had 3 passengers, chrome 19"s and 2-12" subs and now im losing to a RX-8 with an exhaust
is there any sensor on the car that can read incorrectly but not throw a code(CPS,CMPS,CTS)?
I only got to change out the MAF today due to a personal to-do list for the day but that yeilded little to no difference in the performance. it felt a little smoother but not any faster. Going to try the UIM and LOWER tomorrow
its just weird to me because just the other day i beat a modded 08 3.5 altima coupe and i had 3 passengers, chrome 19"s and 2-12" subs and now im losing to a RX-8 with an exhaust
is there any sensor on the car that can read incorrectly but not throw a code(CPS,CMPS,CTS)?
and you sayed you have tried different fuel pressures and still no difference? i really hope you knew what your a/f was like. Your going to end up with another broken motor man.
#21
You're the latest victim of the sh&tty nissan knock sensor. Ground the knock sensor to the battery, reset your ECU and drive 200-300 miles. The ECU will gradually re-advance timing. Give it a few hundred miles of mixed driving. I use 94 octane for safety.
I changed my tensionner on Sunday, reset the ECU and drove it around for a few hundred km's. Timing seems to come back on gradually. The computer doesnt care about redundant sensors, it only cares about the MAF, KS and the 3 timing sensors. I am driving around with no TPS
The thing has ***** now.
I changed my tensionner on Sunday, reset the ECU and drove it around for a few hundred km's. Timing seems to come back on gradually. The computer doesnt care about redundant sensors, it only cares about the MAF, KS and the 3 timing sensors. I am driving around with no TPS
The thing has ***** now.
#22
yea i use 91+ octane ALL the time and can someone clear this up for me, im a little lost when it comes to this section of maxima-ology. Im hearing the 470ohm trick does the samething as grounding the KS to the negative battery, but now it seems as JClaw is saying otherwise. Any solid information? (not doubting at all though JClaw)
Streetz- Im going to try using my cousins WBo2 and a Autozone free scanner that has a freeze frame data screen. If i can get a hold of my buddys snap-on scanner so i can data log it. with my Fuel PSI, ive tryed all different psi levels on the dyno and street and have grown to be able to tell when the car is running lean. Sad enough to say, that how it feels after 5800rpm. like it has NO fuel/leaning out. even with my idle fuel psi as high as 51psi.
I tried it again last night(on a closed course) and as i said the cars lack of power is more noticable in each higher gear, I got to 135-140mph in 5th and the car literally just sat there, even going down a slight slope. I have pictures in videos of my car EASILY going to 150~160mph(i have the 2001 SE gauge cluster)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...IDEO_016-1.flv
Streetz- Im going to try using my cousins WBo2 and a Autozone free scanner that has a freeze frame data screen. If i can get a hold of my buddys snap-on scanner so i can data log it. with my Fuel PSI, ive tryed all different psi levels on the dyno and street and have grown to be able to tell when the car is running lean. Sad enough to say, that how it feels after 5800rpm. like it has NO fuel/leaning out. even with my idle fuel psi as high as 51psi.
I tried it again last night(on a closed course) and as i said the cars lack of power is more noticable in each higher gear, I got to 135-140mph in 5th and the car literally just sat there, even going down a slight slope. I have pictures in videos of my car EASILY going to 150~160mph(i have the 2001 SE gauge cluster)
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v6...IDEO_016-1.flv
#23
#24
When you ground the KS to the battery post, you're essentially just converting the KS to a glorified resistor. At the battery post, the KS cant sense knock (or what it thinks is knock) so it makes the ECU think that everything is running perfectly fine. The 470k ohm resistor does the same thing. I dont think Jclaw is denying this, just that both methods give the same results.
FWIW, disconnecting the TPS on an auto is going to cause some issues.
FWIW, disconnecting the TPS on an auto is going to cause some issues.
Last edited by whlimi; 04-30-2009 at 08:38 AM.
#25
When you ground the KS to the battery post, you're essentially just converting the KS to a glorified resistor. At the battery post, the KS cant sense knock (or what it thinks is knock) so it makes the ECU think that everything is running perfectly fine. The 470k ohm resistor does the same thing. I dont think Jclaw is denying this, just that both methods give the same results.
FWIW, disconnecting the TPS on an auto is going to cause some issues.
FWIW, disconnecting the TPS on an auto is going to cause some issues.
#26
If you have a solid idle and your car drives fine under 5800rpm, I honestly dont think its a TPS issue. Most TPS problems are most noticeable at idle.
#27
To test the TPS, disconnect it, loosen the screws and adjust it so that it reads close to 500 ohms at idle and near 4k ohm at WOT. Then reconnect the harness and switch the key to the on position but dont turn on the car, back probe the TPS harness and slowly go from idle to WOT on the throttle body. You should see a linear rise in voltage all the way to WOT. There shouldnt be any dips.
If you have a solid idle and your car drives fine under 5800rpm, I honestly dont think its a TPS issue. Most TPS problems are most noticeable at idle.
If you have a solid idle and your car drives fine under 5800rpm, I honestly dont think its a TPS issue. Most TPS problems are most noticeable at idle.
#28
To me it sounds like your car is choking for air or not getting enough fuel at the higher rpms. Have you tested all your injectors? It's among one of the items transferred over from your previous setup.
Also use a vacuum gauge to check for exhaust restrictions (clogged cat if you're running with a cat).
Also use a vacuum gauge to check for exhaust restrictions (clogged cat if you're running with a cat).
#29
To me it sounds like your car is choking for air or not getting enough fuel at the higher rpms. Have you tested all your injectors? It's among one of the items transferred over from your previous setup.
Also use a vacuum gauge to check for exhaust restrictions (clogged cat if you're running with a cat).
Also use a vacuum gauge to check for exhaust restrictions (clogged cat if you're running with a cat).
#30
what you're stating is EXACTLY how i feel. Im going to swap out my injectors(maybe the last motor+nitrous messed them up). Check my fuel lines and my gasket between my ypipe and gutted cat because it sounds like its leaking but isnt.. maybe its clogging the exhaust flow or something.
#31
#32
well,i checked the spark plugs,TPS, wiring vaccum leaks,ran open ypipe and check the lower intake manifold and fuel lines. everythings looks normal BUTTTTT all the spark plugs seem to be white, like its running lean(also how it feels)so i think it just might be my timing.
can anyone confirm this? because if it is,ill redo it in the morning. BUT does it sound like ignition timing or cam? because if its cam timing, imma wait until i order(if needed) some new adapters
can anyone confirm this? because if it is,ill redo it in the morning. BUT does it sound like ignition timing or cam? because if its cam timing, imma wait until i order(if needed) some new adapters
#33
#35
well,i checked the spark plugs,TPS, wiring vaccum leaks,ran open ypipe and check the lower intake manifold and fuel lines. everythings looks normal BUTTTTT all the spark plugs seem to be white, like its running lean(also how it feels)so i think it just might be my timing.
can anyone confirm this? because if it is,ill redo it in the morning. BUT does it sound like ignition timing or cam? because if its cam timing, imma wait until i order(if needed) some new adapters
can anyone confirm this? because if it is,ill redo it in the morning. BUT does it sound like ignition timing or cam? because if its cam timing, imma wait until i order(if needed) some new adapters
#36
well it only takes me about 3hours to tear it down and put it back together. ill try switching my fuel lines to return styleand try checking my timing again with a better timing light. ill let you guys know shortly what happens. but with a vaccum leak,shouldnt my car idle high or bouncy or
#38
correct its a hybrid swap. I understand that with a full swap i will benefit alot more but with my previous 3.5, it ran fine
#39
well it only takes me about 3hours to tear it down and put it back together. ill try switching my fuel lines to return styleand try checking my timing again with a better timing light. ill let you guys know shortly what happens. but with a vaccum leak,shouldnt my car idle high or bouncy or
http://www.gregsengine.com/vacuum.htm
#40
thanks for the link, its very useful. Today im going to switch my rail to returnstyle and check my fuel lines and change my fuel filter. Im curious though, if there is a kink/downsized(too small) of a line adaptercould that cause the lean fuel affect in upper rpms even if the fuel psi holds?
like just enough fuel to hold pressure but not enough to supply the fuel to keep up with the injector pulse at 5800rpms+?
like just enough fuel to hold pressure but not enough to supply the fuel to keep up with the injector pulse at 5800rpms+?