cardana24's 3.5 swap
03-21-2011, 05:56 PM
#361
So I am supposed to set it WOT psi? Which should be around 60 psi ( I know you said I should set it up for stock 4th gen fuel pressure, but right now I am trying to set it up like aic96 described since he did not have to make much correction).
03-21-2011, 06:11 PM
#362
I am making corrections in the mid rpms, but at redline none basically, theres a dip in afr's if not corrected from 3k - 5k at wot, but if i had set it lower it would be lean up top, so its kinda like dam if you do and dam if you dont, but i ran my car without any corrections and it still ran without breaking up w decent power. Also, mines is set static 51 psi, has a check valve so basically its 51 psi always. you should be fine doing it that way bc its still the same 51 psi a wot....
03-22-2011, 06:26 AM
#363
I guess I could figure all of this out easier if I could do some WOT pulls and log my A/F, but I am still on break in on my cams and clutch, so for another ~400 miles I am not supposed to rev the engine over 4K.
03-22-2011, 09:46 AM
#365
03-22-2011, 09:56 AM
#366
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a fuel pressure regulator maintains a constant relative pressure between the manifold and the fuel rail.
For instance, with the vacuum line unhooked, and the FPR "sees" 0psi on the vacuum port, so whatever you set the regulator to, the FPR will maintain that pressure between the fuel rail and the intake manifold once the vacuum line is hooked up. Once you hooked the vacuum line back up, at idle when there is a lot of manifold vacuum, the FPR lowered the pressure so an excessive amount of fuel would not be sucked into the manifold due to the relatively high level of vacuum. Any measure of the fuel pressure with the vacuum line attached has no reference because you do not know the manifold vacuum. You must consider manifold vacuum when talking about regulating fuel pressure in a vehicle without direct injection.
So if you set it to 51 psi with the vacuum line detached, the FPR will maintain 51 psi between the fuel rail and the manifold.
For instance, with the vacuum line unhooked, and the FPR "sees" 0psi on the vacuum port, so whatever you set the regulator to, the FPR will maintain that pressure between the fuel rail and the intake manifold once the vacuum line is hooked up. Once you hooked the vacuum line back up, at idle when there is a lot of manifold vacuum, the FPR lowered the pressure so an excessive amount of fuel would not be sucked into the manifold due to the relatively high level of vacuum. Any measure of the fuel pressure with the vacuum line attached has no reference because you do not know the manifold vacuum. You must consider manifold vacuum when talking about regulating fuel pressure in a vehicle without direct injection.
So if you set it to 51 psi with the vacuum line detached, the FPR will maintain 51 psi between the fuel rail and the manifold.
03-22-2011, 11:40 AM
#367
you set fuel psi with the vac line off to the desired psi at wot then when you attach the vac source to the fpr the vac psi from the intake will pull on the diaphram and reduce the fuel psi at idle and light load so the car does not run rich. also on the flip side when the car goes into boost fuel psi will raise at a rate of 1-1
Some just run a static psi cause it's easier to tune
Some just run a static psi cause it's easier to tune
03-22-2011, 11:57 AM
#368
you set fuel psi with the vac line off to the desired psi at wot then when you attach the vac source to the fpr the vac psi from the intake will pull on the diaphram and reduce the fuel psi at idle and light load so the car does not run rich. also on the flip side when the car goes into boost fuel psi will raise at a rate of 1-1
Some just run a static psi cause it's easier to tune
Some just run a static psi cause it's easier to tune
To run static fuel pressure I would just need to take the vacuum line off of the FPR right? Then once it is boosed I could just run the check valve like AIC is talking about then it would only move to increase when it sees boost?
But as far as tunning I don't see why tuning with the vac line hooked up to the FPR would hurt anything/or be any harder since I would be tuning during WOT and the fuel pressure should be stable at that point, so leaving it hooked up to vacuum would allow me to save a little bit of fuel when cruising and have the same fixed fuel pressure when I am WOT?
03-22-2011, 12:00 PM
#369
But this assumes that manifold pressure is 0 psi at WOT, right?
How I understand it is that for a 1:1 FPR, for every 1 psi of vacuum in the manifold, the fpr reduces the pressure in the fuel rail by 1 psi. For every 1 psi of boost in the manifold, the regulator adds 1 psi of fuel rail pressure.
So if the manifold pressure equaled atmospheric pressure (0 psig), then your fuel rail pressure would equal the pressure that it was set at with the vacuum line disconnected (51 psig in this case), correct?
How I understand it is that for a 1:1 FPR, for every 1 psi of vacuum in the manifold, the fpr reduces the pressure in the fuel rail by 1 psi. For every 1 psi of boost in the manifold, the regulator adds 1 psi of fuel rail pressure.
So if the manifold pressure equaled atmospheric pressure (0 psig), then your fuel rail pressure would equal the pressure that it was set at with the vacuum line disconnected (51 psig in this case), correct?
03-22-2011, 08:21 PM
#370
To run static fuel pressure I would just need to take the vacuum line off of the FPR right? Then once it is boosed I could just run the check valve like AIC is talking about then it would only move to increase when it sees boost?
But as far as tunning I don't see why tuning with the vac line hooked up to the FPR would hurt anything/or be any harder since I would be tuning during WOT and the fuel pressure should be stable at that point, so leaving it hooked up to vacuum would allow me to save a little bit of fuel when cruising and have the same fixed fuel pressure when I am WOT?
But as far as tunning I don't see why tuning with the vac line hooked up to the FPR would hurt anything/or be any harder since I would be tuning during WOT and the fuel pressure should be stable at that point, so leaving it hooked up to vacuum would allow me to save a little bit of fuel when cruising and have the same fixed fuel pressure when I am WOT?
03-22-2011, 08:23 PM
#371
But this assumes that manifold pressure is 0 psi at WOT, right?
How I understand it is that for a 1:1 FPR, for every 1 psi of vacuum in the manifold, the fpr reduces the pressure in the fuel rail by 1 psi. For every 1 psi of boost in the manifold, the regulator adds 1 psi of fuel rail pressure.
So if the manifold pressure equaled atmospheric pressure (0 psig), then your fuel rail pressure would equal the pressure that it was set at with the vacuum line disconnected (51 psig in this case), correct?
How I understand it is that for a 1:1 FPR, for every 1 psi of vacuum in the manifold, the fpr reduces the pressure in the fuel rail by 1 psi. For every 1 psi of boost in the manifold, the regulator adds 1 psi of fuel rail pressure.
So if the manifold pressure equaled atmospheric pressure (0 psig), then your fuel rail pressure would equal the pressure that it was set at with the vacuum line disconnected (51 psig in this case), correct?
03-22-2011, 08:28 PM
#372
03-23-2011, 05:19 AM
#373
I'm actually quite well-read on physics.
I used pounds per square inch gauge (unit of pressure), not pounds (unit of force).
-from here.
The site you linked to has the following information
"Normal reading (usually 17-22" Hg. in stock engines)"
17-22 in HG = 8.35 - 10.81 psig
You need the g because the amount of vacuum in the manifold is relative to atmospheric pressure which is around 14.7 psi at sea level absolute. Gauge pressure is the pressure relative to atmospheric. Absolute pressure would be gauge pressure + atmospheric. Inches of mercury is also relative to atmospheric pressure so psig and in Hg are compatible units.
Oddly enough, when the fuel pressure regulator was set to 51 psig, and then the vacuum line was connected, the gauge pressure dropped to 42 psi.
51-42 = 9
8.35 < 9 < 10.81 psig
Which coincides with the 17-22 inHg above.
So because there was about 9 psig of vacuum in the manifold, the FPR reduced the fuel rail pressure to 42 psig to compensate for that. This is a 1:1 relationship. A one psig difference in manifold pressure equals a one psig difference in fuel rail pressure. If the fuel rail pressure had not changed, the relative fuel rail to manifold pressure would have become
51 + 9 = 60 psig
And it is obvious that for a given orifice size (think an injector), more fuel would flow through at 60 psig than 51 psig, causing a rich condition at idle. Which of course could be accounted for in tuning, by if you can keep the fuel rail to manifold pressure constant, it just makes life easier. That is precisely the job of the fuel pressure regulator.
In closing, you cannot accurately measure the fuel rail pressure without first knowing the pressure to the regulator vacuum port. That is why you adjust it with the vacuum source disconnected, because you know that the pressure is 0 psig (or 0 in Hg).
I used pounds per square inch gauge (unit of pressure), not pounds (unit of force).
Originally Posted by National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
To convert between inches of mercury (inHg) and pounds per
square inch (psi), use the formulas below:
Ppsi = 0.491154 × PinHg
PinHg = 2.03602 × Ppsi
square inch (psi), use the formulas below:
Ppsi = 0.491154 × PinHg
PinHg = 2.03602 × Ppsi
The site you linked to has the following information
"Normal reading (usually 17-22" Hg. in stock engines)"
17-22 in HG = 8.35 - 10.81 psig
You need the g because the amount of vacuum in the manifold is relative to atmospheric pressure which is around 14.7 psi at sea level absolute. Gauge pressure is the pressure relative to atmospheric. Absolute pressure would be gauge pressure + atmospheric. Inches of mercury is also relative to atmospheric pressure so psig and in Hg are compatible units.
Oddly enough, when the fuel pressure regulator was set to 51 psig, and then the vacuum line was connected, the gauge pressure dropped to 42 psi.
51-42 = 9
8.35 < 9 < 10.81 psig
Which coincides with the 17-22 inHg above.
So because there was about 9 psig of vacuum in the manifold, the FPR reduced the fuel rail pressure to 42 psig to compensate for that. This is a 1:1 relationship. A one psig difference in manifold pressure equals a one psig difference in fuel rail pressure. If the fuel rail pressure had not changed, the relative fuel rail to manifold pressure would have become
51 + 9 = 60 psig
And it is obvious that for a given orifice size (think an injector), more fuel would flow through at 60 psig than 51 psig, causing a rich condition at idle. Which of course could be accounted for in tuning, by if you can keep the fuel rail to manifold pressure constant, it just makes life easier. That is precisely the job of the fuel pressure regulator.
In closing, you cannot accurately measure the fuel rail pressure without first knowing the pressure to the regulator vacuum port. That is why you adjust it with the vacuum source disconnected, because you know that the pressure is 0 psig (or 0 in Hg).
03-23-2011, 06:00 AM
#374
holy cow^
thanks
The car feels about the same today, but I am throwing more codes. My knock sensor code came back
Will the car throw a knock sensor code if the sensor detects knock? Or will it only throw the ks code if it is not receiving a reading from the knock sensor? My car is camed with a fidanza flywheel and 6 puck clutch...it vibrates more than the average maxima...could this cause a ks code to be thrown?
I am also now getting an O2 sensor code now P0150, go figure
My other new code is P1220 something having to do with air fuel metering, I'm guessing that is a maf code but I am going to go research now.
thanksThe car feels about the same today, but I am throwing more codes. My knock sensor code came back
Will the car throw a knock sensor code if the sensor detects knock? Or will it only throw the ks code if it is not receiving a reading from the knock sensor? My car is camed with a fidanza flywheel and 6 puck clutch...it vibrates more than the average maxima...could this cause a ks code to be thrown? I am also now getting an O2 sensor code now P0150, go figure
My other new code is P1220 something having to do with air fuel metering, I'm guessing that is a maf code but I am going to go research now.
03-23-2011, 07:08 AM
#376
03-23-2011, 08:06 AM
#377
P1220 is an improper voltage level from the fuel pump control module. I noticed this before when looking over differences in the 1996 and 1998 EC sections of the FSM, but wasn't sure it was relevant. Your 1996 ECU is looking for a voltage from the fuel pump control module that your 1998 chassis does not have. The FPCM was left out in the 1998 and 1999 model year A32s. Only the 95 Cali, '96 and '97 chassis have a FPCM.
As for what the relevance is, I don't think it is significant. But it's hard to be certain. I was wrong before about the IACV not being used in the fourth gen warm up sequence. I don't have the source code for the ECUs in front of me so comments about the way the ECU operates are mostly conjecture. All-in-all, what you really need is a manual 1998 ECU.
I think once you get a wideband hooked up, a lot of your problems will be resolved. Knowing your AFR will help immensely in troubleshooting. P0150 is a mixture problem, not one with say the heater circuit, so the AFR is probably a little out-of-whack.
Kev, I think engine vibration from sources other than knock will throw the 0304 DTC. While I don't think this will light the MIL by itself, the O2 sensor and FPCM codes will. I know when my MAF went bad, the engine would abruptly lose power, then it would come back suddenly, causing the entire car to surge, so I imagine the engine was shaking pretty violently. I popped a MIL once and read codes 0201 and 0304. There was nothing wrong with my knock sensor, but it threw the code anyway, possibly because of engine vibration from a bad MAF. This also may explain why 0304 pops up a lot when the real problem is seemingly unrelated. Regardless, a 470K resistor will satisfy the voltage requirement of the knock sensor on the ECU in all conditions, so sudden engine vibrations should not throw the code anymore.
As for what the relevance is, I don't think it is significant. But it's hard to be certain. I was wrong before about the IACV not being used in the fourth gen warm up sequence. I don't have the source code for the ECUs in front of me so comments about the way the ECU operates are mostly conjecture. All-in-all, what you really need is a manual 1998 ECU.
I think once you get a wideband hooked up, a lot of your problems will be resolved. Knowing your AFR will help immensely in troubleshooting. P0150 is a mixture problem, not one with say the heater circuit, so the AFR is probably a little out-of-whack.
Kev, I think engine vibration from sources other than knock will throw the 0304 DTC. While I don't think this will light the MIL by itself, the O2 sensor and FPCM codes will. I know when my MAF went bad, the engine would abruptly lose power, then it would come back suddenly, causing the entire car to surge, so I imagine the engine was shaking pretty violently. I popped a MIL once and read codes 0201 and 0304. There was nothing wrong with my knock sensor, but it threw the code anyway, possibly because of engine vibration from a bad MAF. This also may explain why 0304 pops up a lot when the real problem is seemingly unrelated. Regardless, a 470K resistor will satisfy the voltage requirement of the knock sensor on the ECU in all conditions, so sudden engine vibrations should not throw the code anymore.
03-23-2011, 08:28 AM
#379
P1220 is an improper voltage level from the fuel pump control module. I noticed this before when looking over differences in the 1996 and 1998 EC sections of the FSM, but wasn't sure it was relevant. Your 1996 ECU is looking for a voltage from the fuel pump control module that your 1998 chassis does not have. The FPCM was left out in the 1998 and 1999 model year A32s. Only the 95 Cali, '96 and '97 chassis have a FPCM.
As for what the relevance is, I don't think it is significant. But it's hard to be certain. I was wrong before about the IACV not being used in the fourth gen warm up sequence. I don't have the source code for the ECUs in front of me so comments about the way the ECU operates are mostly conjecture. All-in-all, what you really need is a manual 1998 ECU.
I think once you get a wideband hooked up, a lot of your problems will be resolved. Knowing your AFR will help immensely in troubleshooting. P0150 is a mixture problem, not one with say the heater circuit, so the AFR is probably a little out-of-whack.
Kev, I think engine vibration from sources other than knock will throw the 0304 DTC. While I don't think this will light the MIL by itself, the O2 sensor and FPCM codes will. I know when my MAF went bad, the engine would abruptly lose power, then it would come back suddenly, causing the entire car to surge, so I imagine the engine was shaking pretty violently. I popped a MIL once and read codes 0201 and 0304. There was nothing wrong with my knock sensor, but it threw the code anyway, possibly because of engine vibration from a bad MAF. This also may explain why 0304 pops up a lot when the real problem is seemingly unrelated. Regardless, a 470K resistor will satisfy the voltage requirement of the knock sensor on the ECU in all conditions, so sudden engine vibrations should not throw the code anymore.
As for what the relevance is, I don't think it is significant. But it's hard to be certain. I was wrong before about the IACV not being used in the fourth gen warm up sequence. I don't have the source code for the ECUs in front of me so comments about the way the ECU operates are mostly conjecture. All-in-all, what you really need is a manual 1998 ECU.
I think once you get a wideband hooked up, a lot of your problems will be resolved. Knowing your AFR will help immensely in troubleshooting. P0150 is a mixture problem, not one with say the heater circuit, so the AFR is probably a little out-of-whack.
Kev, I think engine vibration from sources other than knock will throw the 0304 DTC. While I don't think this will light the MIL by itself, the O2 sensor and FPCM codes will. I know when my MAF went bad, the engine would abruptly lose power, then it would come back suddenly, causing the entire car to surge, so I imagine the engine was shaking pretty violently. I popped a MIL once and read codes 0201 and 0304. There was nothing wrong with my knock sensor, but it threw the code anyway, possibly because of engine vibration from a bad MAF. This also may explain why 0304 pops up a lot when the real problem is seemingly unrelated. Regardless, a 470K resistor will satisfy the voltage requirement of the knock sensor on the ECU in all conditions, so sudden engine vibrations should not throw the code anymore.
I wanted to run an earlier model ecu so I would not have so many emissions codes from taking things off of my engine. From reserching a little bit I came up with the same info you did about code P1220, its a fuel pump control module that I do not have but 96 and 97's did.Good to know about the knock sensor, I want to run the knock sensor incase it needed to pull timing because of knock, but it sounds like that may not be an option with my set up.
Once the ecu stores a knock sensor code, does the car run with retarded timing until the ecu is reset? Or does it just store the code then continue to function properly?
I am thinking I will either source a stock 95 ecu, or put my 98 ecu back in until I can get a few things cleared up then I will worry about the knock sensor problem.
03-23-2011, 09:03 AM
#380
03-23-2011, 09:29 AM
#381
03-23-2011, 09:42 AM
#382
I'm not really sure and can't seem to find a reliable answer to that. The only way to know for sure would be to measure the timing with the sensor disconnected, with the sensor connected but the code present, and then with the senor connected and the code cleared. Of course, this assumes the sensor and circuit are good in the first place.
03-23-2011, 10:09 AM
#383
I'm not really sure and can't seem to find a reliable answer to that. The only way to know for sure would be to measure the timing with the sensor disconnected, with the sensor connected but the code present, and then with the senor connected and the code cleared. Of course, this assumes the sensor and circuit are good in the first place.
03-23-2011, 03:57 PM
#384
A few more things.
I am currently running a Z32 maf, but I am not running an ecu that is set up for a Z32 maf, will this cause problems?
I cannot reset my knock sensor code now, I try to erase it with scanner and it will not erase, and the car is running worse over all.
Does my VAFC-II need to be hooked to the knock sensor? I hooked it up just because it is listed on Jime's pinout setup so I just did it...if its not needed I will just cut it off to take that out of the equation.
Also this is my first car with a wideband oxygen set up. When I am cruising between 25-50% throttle, my gague shows that my a/f is between 16 and 19 to 1...is this normal? I thought the computer would adjust the a/f to around 14.7 during cruising...maybe I am wrong.
I am going to ohm test my injectors tonight and clean the maf. Any input on this stuff is appreciated.
I am currently running a Z32 maf, but I am not running an ecu that is set up for a Z32 maf, will this cause problems?
I cannot reset my knock sensor code now, I try to erase it with scanner and it will not erase, and the car is running worse over all.
Does my VAFC-II need to be hooked to the knock sensor? I hooked it up just because it is listed on Jime's pinout setup so I just did it...if its not needed I will just cut it off to take that out of the equation.
Also this is my first car with a wideband oxygen set up. When I am cruising between 25-50% throttle, my gague shows that my a/f is between 16 and 19 to 1...is this normal? I thought the computer would adjust the a/f to around 14.7 during cruising...maybe I am wrong.
I am going to ohm test my injectors tonight and clean the maf. Any input on this stuff is appreciated.
03-23-2011, 04:07 PM
#385
A few more things.
I am currently running a Z32 maf, but I am not running an ecu that is set up for a Z32 maf, will this cause problems?
I cannot reset my knock sensor code now, I try to erase it with scanner and it will not erase, and the car is running worse over all.
Does my VAFC-II need to be hooked to the knock sensor? I hooked it up just because it is listed on Jime's pinout setup so I just did it...if its not needed I will just cut it off to take that out of the equation.
Also this is my first car with a wideband oxygen set up. When I am cruising between 25-50% throttle, my gague shows that my a/f is between 16 and 19 to 1...is this normal? I thought the computer would adjust the a/f to around 14.7 during cruising...maybe I am wrong.
I am going to ohm test my injectors tonight and clean the maf. Any input on this stuff is appreciated.
I am currently running a Z32 maf, but I am not running an ecu that is set up for a Z32 maf, will this cause problems?
I cannot reset my knock sensor code now, I try to erase it with scanner and it will not erase, and the car is running worse over all.
Does my VAFC-II need to be hooked to the knock sensor? I hooked it up just because it is listed on Jime's pinout setup so I just did it...if its not needed I will just cut it off to take that out of the equation.
Also this is my first car with a wideband oxygen set up. When I am cruising between 25-50% throttle, my gague shows that my a/f is between 16 and 19 to 1...is this normal? I thought the computer would adjust the a/f to around 14.7 during cruising...maybe I am wrong.
I am going to ohm test my injectors tonight and clean the maf. Any input on this stuff is appreciated.
Z32 maf will not cause problems, but as soon as the car is out of closed loop, it will go super lean. You need to tune for that.
VACF does NOT need to be hooked up to the KS.
That is likely the Z32 maf, how is idle and under 2500? 14.7? If so, good likely no vac leaks. Then you can just richen it up since the ecu isnt programed for the Z32 maf curve(its only different after a certain throttle/rpm)
03-23-2011, 05:25 PM
#386
I checked out all of my injectors and they all tested between 13.6-14.0, so I don't think they are causing a problem.
Also I cut the wire on the VAFC-II for the knock sensor, and I was able to reset the knock sensor code.
I thought I had my stock maf plug/harness, and I was just going to put that back in to take things out of the equation, but I could not find it.
Also I cut the wire on the VAFC-II for the knock sensor, and I was able to reset the knock sensor code.
I thought I had my stock maf plug/harness, and I was just going to put that back in to take things out of the equation, but I could not find it.
03-23-2011, 09:30 PM
#388
A few more things.
I am currently running a Z32 maf, but I am not running an ecu that is set up for a Z32 maf, will this cause problems?
I cannot reset my knock sensor code now, I try to erase it with scanner and it will not erase, and the car is running worse over all.
Does my VAFC-II need to be hooked to the knock sensor? I hooked it up just because it is listed on Jime's pinout setup so I just did it...if its not needed I will just cut it off to take that out of the equation.
Also this is my first car with a wideband oxygen set up. When I am cruising between 25-50% throttle, my gague shows that my a/f is between 16 and 19 to 1...is this normal? I thought the computer would adjust the a/f to around 14.7 during cruising...maybe I am wrong.
I am going to ohm test my injectors tonight and clean the maf. Any input on this stuff is appreciated.
I am currently running a Z32 maf, but I am not running an ecu that is set up for a Z32 maf, will this cause problems?
I cannot reset my knock sensor code now, I try to erase it with scanner and it will not erase, and the car is running worse over all.
Does my VAFC-II need to be hooked to the knock sensor? I hooked it up just because it is listed on Jime's pinout setup so I just did it...if its not needed I will just cut it off to take that out of the equation.
Also this is my first car with a wideband oxygen set up. When I am cruising between 25-50% throttle, my gague shows that my a/f is between 16 and 19 to 1...is this normal? I thought the computer would adjust the a/f to around 14.7 during cruising...maybe I am wrong.
I am going to ohm test my injectors tonight and clean the maf. Any input on this stuff is appreciated.
Also, i haven't been keeping up with the thread to well, but I assume you're using the stock 3.5 injectors? Have you thought about what you're going to use when you eventually toss the SC'er on there? Cause i would recommend 550-600cc injectors. At that point you can change the in/out on the VAFC back to 4in/4out and have a slightly rich condition from the get go and reduce your base pressure down so you can add fuel in the upper rpm's to inadvertently reduce the timing up top (assuming you're not going to go with an EU).
03-24-2011, 06:01 AM
#389
Carson, you're gonna want to change the in/out meter settings to 2in/4out on the VAFC, if you haven't already, and that should take care of the lean situation causing the car to run like caca. You're reading about "half" the air that's actually making it to the engine and the ecu thinks you only need half of the necessary fuel, hence car runs lean. Now if you have the VAFC set to 2in/4out, then I'm not sure what to tell you in that situation. Could be a case of the JWT ECU being set up for larger injectors than stock.
Also, i haven't been keeping up with the thread to well, but I assume you're using the stock 3.5 injectors? Have you thought about what you're going to use when you eventually toss the SC'er on there? Cause i would recommend 550-600cc injectors. At that point you can change the in/out on the VAFC back to 4in/4out and have a slightly rich condition from the get go and reduce your base pressure down so you can add fuel in the upper rpm's to inadvertently reduce the timing up top (assuming you're not going to go with an EU).
Also, i haven't been keeping up with the thread to well, but I assume you're using the stock 3.5 injectors? Have you thought about what you're going to use when you eventually toss the SC'er on there? Cause i would recommend 550-600cc injectors. At that point you can change the in/out on the VAFC back to 4in/4out and have a slightly rich condition from the get go and reduce your base pressure down so you can add fuel in the upper rpm's to inadvertently reduce the timing up top (assuming you're not going to go with an EU).
Once I put the Supercharger back on I have a different set up already. I have some of 96sleepers old stuff. I have a JWT ecu tuned for a Z32 maf and 555cc injectors. I also already have a set of 555cc injectors too. At this point I am really not focusing on that right now, I want to get this n/a set up right.
03-24-2011, 07:27 AM
#390
I found a SAFC-II manual online (I figured this would be close enough since I assume a VAFC-II manual would only list Honda info), and I looked at the intial setup. It lists an example of an S14/15 using a Z32 MAF, and you change the "in" reading to 2 just like George said above. It lists the A32 chassis as a HW4, and the Z32 chassis as HW2. I will change the "in" setting tonight and see if there is any difference.
What a/f should I be seeing while cruising at partial throttle?
What a/f should I be seeing while cruising at partial throttle?
03-24-2011, 10:37 AM
#391
I found a SAFC-II manual online (I figured this would be close enough since I assume a VAFC-II manual would only list Honda info), and I looked at the intial setup. It lists an example of an S14/15 using a Z32 MAF, and you change the "in" reading to 2 just like George said above. It lists the A32 chassis as a HW4, and the Z32 chassis as HW2. I will change the "in" setting tonight and see if there is any difference.
What a/f should I be seeing while cruising at partial throttle?
What a/f should I be seeing while cruising at partial throttle?
03-25-2011, 06:22 AM
#392
I changed my settings on my VAFC-II last night to "2" in, and my a/f looks a lot better. I drove the car today, and even though I cannot go over 4k yet all I can say is 
this thing feels pretty nasty. At idle my a/f is between 14.0-12.5. At partial throttle I am at 12.5 and richer, and then WOT I am around 11.0, so there is defiantly room for improvement. I still need to put 350 more miles on the car before I am out of break in then the fun can begin. Thanks everyone for your help so far.
this thing feels pretty nasty. At idle my a/f is between 14.0-12.5. At partial throttle I am at 12.5 and richer, and then WOT I am around 11.0, so there is defiantly room for improvement. I still need to put 350 more miles on the car before I am out of break in then the fun can begin. Thanks everyone for your help so far.
03-25-2011, 06:44 AM
#393
I changed my settings on my VAFC-II last night to "2" in, and my a/f looks a lot better. I drove the car today, and even though I cannot go over 4k yet all I can say is this thing feels pretty nasty. At idle my a/f is between 14.0-12.5. At partial throttle I am at 12.5 and richer, and then WOT I am around 11.0, so there is defiantly room for improvement. I still need to put 350 more miles on the car before I am out of break in then the fun can begin. Thanks everyone for your help so far.
this thing feels pretty nasty. At idle my a/f is between 14.0-12.5. At partial throttle I am at 12.5 and richer, and then WOT I am around 11.0, so there is defiantly room for improvement. I still need to put 350 more miles on the car before I am out of break in then the fun can begin. Thanks everyone for your help so far.
03-25-2011, 10:32 AM
#394
I changed my settings on my VAFC-II last night to "2" in, and my a/f looks a lot better. I drove the car today, and even though I cannot go over 4k yet all I can say is this thing feels pretty nasty. At idle my a/f is between 14.0-12.5. At partial throttle I am at 12.5 and richer, and then WOT I am around 11.0, so there is defiantly room for improvement. I still need to put 350 more miles on the car before I am out of break in then the fun can begin. Thanks everyone for your help so far.
this thing feels pretty nasty. At idle my a/f is between 14.0-12.5. At partial throttle I am at 12.5 and richer, and then WOT I am around 11.0, so there is defiantly room for improvement. I still need to put 350 more miles on the car before I am out of break in then the fun can begin. Thanks everyone for your help so far.Also, just to be sure, and in case I overlooked it, you did reset your VAFC to make sure there were no corrections right? Also, you might want to increase your high throttle position to somewhere in the 70% range for the time being to see if it helps with richness spikes. I had that problem back when i was NA with it set to ~35% like a couple setup threads had mentioned.
03-25-2011, 10:40 AM
#395
a higher WOT point on the safc definitely worked better for me, currently at 70% , i have had my psi static at 40 and 51, and at idle and part throttle didnt really see a change in afrs, maybe bc the ecu uses the o2 sensors to keep at stoich mixture. depending on temps usually idles around 13.5-14.5s, and cruising in the 14-14.6 range i think youll be just fine once the car idles good and you start tuning that beast at wot. these 3.5s are alot of fun even na, and with cams, your going to have lots of fun
03-25-2011, 11:06 AM
#396
Many people will disagree here i bet (other than ajm8127), but if you drop your fuel pressure to 42-43 psi static (vac unhooked) you'll be right in the sweet spot AFR wise. We followed all the other threads, fuel pressure wise, when we did Grant's swap and yielded the same results you're talking about (erratic idle AFR and a very rich condition off idle) . We stepped it down to around that range and it netted almost perfect stable AFR at idle and cruising and about 12-13afr at WOT.
Also, just to be sure, and in case I overlooked it, you did reset your VAFC to make sure there were no corrections right? Also, you might want to increase your high throttle position to somewhere in the 70% range for the time being to see if it helps with richness spikes. I had that problem back when i was NA with it set to ~35% like a couple setup threads had mentioned.
Also, just to be sure, and in case I overlooked it, you did reset your VAFC to make sure there were no corrections right? Also, you might want to increase your high throttle position to somewhere in the 70% range for the time being to see if it helps with richness spikes. I had that problem back when i was NA with it set to ~35% like a couple setup threads had mentioned.
Would the throttle setting affect anything now sice I don't have any corrections made, I'm am not really sure how that works. The car is not running that bad now. Power feels good and the idle is a little bit choppy, but it only fluctuates about 50 rpm, I am guessing I could smooth it out a little bit if I turned the idle up a little bit I don't want to do that, I like hearing the choppyness through the 3" exhaust. The warm idle is right around 700 rpm.
a higher WOT point on the safc definitely worked better for me, currently at 70% , i have had my psi static at 40 and 51, and at idle and part throttle didnt really see a change in afrs, maybe bc the ecu uses the o2 sensors to keep at stoich mixture. depending on temps usually idles around 13.5-14.5s, and cruising in the 14-14.6 range i think youll be just fine once the car idles good and you start tuning that beast at wot. these 3.5s are alot of fun even na, and with cams, your going to have lots of fun
Yes I agree the car is going to be fun even n/a. Right now from 0-4000 rpm the car feels faster than when I was 3.0 supercharged. I cannot speak on the top end yet, but I am excited for the results. Hopefully in another week or so I can get in all of my break in miles and start tuning.
**One other thing. A few days ago I was saying that the car was running better once it was warm...I really think that was caused by the Z32 maf because I do not have that problem any more. I think most of the problems (running better when warm, hesitation, etc.) were being caused because of my Z32 maf. Ever since last night when I changed the settings on the VAFC-II to accomedate the Z32 the car has run pretty well to not be tuned.
03-25-2011, 11:25 AM
#397
First, yes, I took out all of the corrections on the VAFC-II so I am not currently running corrections any where.
Would the throttle setting affect anything now sice I don't have any corrections made, I'm am not really sure how that works. The car is not running that bad now. Power feels good and the idle is a little bit choppy, but it only fluctuates about 50 rpm, I am guessing I could smooth it out a little bit if I turned the idle up a little bit I don't want to do that, I like hearing the choppyness through the 3" exhaust. The warm idle is right around 700 rpm.
Would the throttle setting affect anything now sice I don't have any corrections made, I'm am not really sure how that works. The car is not running that bad now. Power feels good and the idle is a little bit choppy, but it only fluctuates about 50 rpm, I am guessing I could smooth it out a little bit if I turned the idle up a little bit I don't want to do that, I like hearing the choppyness through the 3" exhaust. The warm idle is right around 700 rpm.
Originally Posted by cardana24
Like I stated above I am not exactly how the WOT point works. Does that mean that it will start making the corrections you have input once you reach 70% throttle +?
Originally Posted by cardana24
Yes I agree the car is going to be fun even n/a. Right now from 0-4000 rpm the car feels faster than when I was 3.0 supercharged. I cannot speak on the top end yet, but I am excited for the results. Hopefully in another week or so I can get in all of my break in miles and start tuning.
**One other thing. A few days ago I was saying that the car was running better once it was warm...I really think that was caused by the Z32 maf because I do not have that problem any more. I think most of the problems (running better when warm, hesitation, etc.) were being caused because of my Z32 maf. Ever since last night when I changed the settings on the VAFC-II to accomedate the Z32 the car has run pretty well to not be tuned.
**One other thing. A few days ago I was saying that the car was running better once it was warm...I really think that was caused by the Z32 maf because I do not have that problem any more. I think most of the problems (running better when warm, hesitation, etc.) were being caused because of my Z32 maf. Ever since last night when I changed the settings on the VAFC-II to accomedate the Z32 the car has run pretty well to not be tuned.
03-25-2011, 11:42 AM
#398
okay, so I know there is a high and low throttle setting. What should those be set to? I am getting a little bit confused here but I assume we are talking about the same thing.
03-25-2011, 12:13 PM
#399
I have mine set to 70% on low and 75% on high i believe. I'll take a look at it when i get home tonight.
03-25-2011, 01:26 PM
#400
low throttle is for part throttle tuning and hi throttle is for wot tuning
I would set the hi setting around 70-80% cause the ecu changes what loop it's in around 80% anyway and it would be fighting the vafc
I would not go below 30% with the lo setting for the same reason the ecu below like 28%and 25-3k with begin to over ride the vafc setting anyway.
also even thou your not using the vtec to activate anything set a vtec rpm point that way you will also have vtec and none vtec tuning points. I notice with a 3.5 around 4-45k is a good starting point. Last turn down your fuel psi alittle and the a/f should be pretty damn close without any tuning
I would set the hi setting around 70-80% cause the ecu changes what loop it's in around 80% anyway and it would be fighting the vafc
I would not go below 30% with the lo setting for the same reason the ecu below like 28%and 25-3k with begin to over ride the vafc setting anyway.
also even thou your not using the vtec to activate anything set a vtec rpm point that way you will also have vtec and none vtec tuning points. I notice with a 3.5 around 4-45k is a good starting point. Last turn down your fuel psi alittle and the a/f should be pretty damn close without any tuning