Alpine vs. Clarion
10-19-2004, 02:04 PM
#41
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 719
Originally Posted by roman
I would say that an Eclipse unit would hands down beat anything out there in SQ. But between those two choices I would definitley go with the Alpine.
10-19-2004, 06:24 PM
#43
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by Wish-it-was-AWD
and the "8V" output on the new Eclipse was not constant, in fact it would drop to less than 3 oftentimes, but my Alpine is 4 volts constant; peaky output voltage=shifting power and distortion in the system. .
it wasn't constant because it's not a DC signal, and therefore should not be constant
your alpine is 4 volts constant? so much for a music signal and volume control lol.
preamp output voltage is logarithmically proportional to volume control.
a preamp voltage that clips = distortion, not a time-varying preamp voltage which you seem to be referring to as "peaky".
10-20-2004, 06:41 AM
#45
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Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,102
Originally Posted by Maxima Dan
Anything?! I can think of a Denon, Nak, Clarion, and Alpine that are all better than anything that Eclipse has in their lineup.
I would have to disagree with you on that one. Denon is just complete crap so I'm not sure what you've been smoking to list that here. Nak, Clarion, and Alpine(I have one) are all excellent HU. But for straight SQ, nothing beats the technology that Eclipse employes for their CD readers.
But either way...this is pointless....there is no way to prove one way or the other...everyone has their own opinion and experiences. And to be honest, the difference between the top 3 or 4 brands in SQ would be so minimal that you would have to be a bat to tell the difference.
10-20-2004, 06:59 AM
#46
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by roman
I would have to disagree with you on that one. Denon is just complete crap so I'm not sure what you've been smoking to list that here. Nak, Clarion, and Alpine(I have one) are all excellent HU. But for straight SQ, nothing beats the technology that Eclipse employes for their CD readers.
But either way...this is pointless....there is no way to prove one way or the other...everyone has their own opinion and experiences. And to be honest, the difference between the top 3 or 4 brands in SQ would be so minimal that you would have to be a bat to tell the difference.
But either way...this is pointless....there is no way to prove one way or the other...everyone has their own opinion and experiences. And to be honest, the difference between the top 3 or 4 brands in SQ would be so minimal that you would have to be a bat to tell the difference.
10-20-2004, 08:44 AM
#47
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 719
Originally Posted by roman
I would have to disagree with you on that one. Denon is just complete crap so I'm not sure what you've been smoking to list that here. Nak, Clarion, and Alpine(I have one) are all excellent HU. But for straight SQ, nothing beats the technology that Eclipse employes for their CD readers.
But either way...this is pointless....there is no way to prove one way or the other...everyone has their own opinion and experiences. And to be honest, the difference between the top 3 or 4 brands in SQ would be so minimal that you would have to be a bat to tell the difference.
But either way...this is pointless....there is no way to prove one way or the other...everyone has their own opinion and experiences. And to be honest, the difference between the top 3 or 4 brands in SQ would be so minimal that you would have to be a bat to tell the difference.
10-20-2004, 11:04 AM
#48
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,102
Ok let me explain.
#1 It's my opinion. I know what the DCT-Z1 is and I don't think it's worth the money....thats all.
#2 If we are talking about SQ then really the amp/speakers/positioning make a huge difference. I THINK..i.e. my opinion....is that if you had a great setup and would substitute 4 of those units one after another, you would not notice a difference. The reason I was talking about Eclipse is because it has the best cd reading technology you can get and one of the few units that provides h/o (8v).
Personally..I have the Alpine 7894 which I don't consider to be as good as an Eclipse but it definitley looks a lot better.
But like I said....those are my opinions.
#1 It's my opinion. I know what the DCT-Z1 is and I don't think it's worth the money....thats all.
#2 If we are talking about SQ then really the amp/speakers/positioning make a huge difference. I THINK..i.e. my opinion....is that if you had a great setup and would substitute 4 of those units one after another, you would not notice a difference. The reason I was talking about Eclipse is because it has the best cd reading technology you can get and one of the few units that provides h/o (8v).
Personally..I have the Alpine 7894 which I don't consider to be as good as an Eclipse but it definitley looks a lot better.
But like I said....those are my opinions.
10-20-2004, 12:05 PM
#49
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 152
Are we in 4th grade again?
Originally Posted by friendhasmax
it wasn't constant because it's not a DC signal, and therefore should not be constant
your alpine is 4 volts constant? so much for a music signal and volume control lol.
preamp output voltage is logarithmically proportional to volume control.
a preamp voltage that clips = distortion, not a time-varying preamp voltage which you seem to be referring to as "peaky".
your alpine is 4 volts constant? so much for a music signal and volume control lol.
preamp output voltage is logarithmically proportional to volume control.
a preamp voltage that clips = distortion, not a time-varying preamp voltage which you seem to be referring to as "peaky".
I apologize for not explaining that I was comparing them relative to their volume...assumptions now stated...flat on all "EQ" functions, comparing the Alpine on a 30 point volume scale and the eclipse on 100 (their max "volume" levels), with same power souce, in the same vehicle, with all other mitigating variables controlled as much as possible. I established baselines at min., max., established means, modes, medians, variance and standard deviations, then performing independent samples t test, (Levene's test to establish assumption of equality of variance first) to procure the significance of the differrence in average of the means and possibility of TYPE I and TYPE II errors. Obviously I tried multiple, standardized reproductions of the test, varying only one variable at a time to retain construct and convergent validity, test-restest reliablity. Scores were plotted with respect to a "normal" distribution on a histogram for THD@ Equivalent Incremental levels of 5 on comparitive scale mentioned earlier and output voltage at the RCAs and line level input at the amp....my point was that at given equal "volume", ,i.e. output levels, levels of voltage were not proportionate, specifically, the Eclipse would vary it's output voltage in a nonlinear fashion, dependent on many factors that I was able to identify such as musical dynamic content, i.e. range,etc., the eclipse would drop voltage (clip) from what I can best detemine as overloaded processes to thew fact that it was simply asked to do too much, i.e. too may multi-bit D/A coverters, etc. to put a respectable, stable output voltage as the Alpine did. Problems with my experiment are limited by the fact that I only used two Alpine CDA-7949s and three Eclipse H/Us 5508s or 5533 or something like that (sorry I can't remember the exact model#), which leaves me with relatively poor external reliability. Sorry for trying to simplify it for others, I was only trying to make it more pallatable for the lay person in Audio and electronics but if you still have an issue with my data and experience, please post some "scientific" data of your own, or that is peer-reviewed, that you have found results contrary to mine. I would welcome it, as it would further my understanding by providing me with more knowledge. If, on the other hand yoiu simply want to question my integrity, intelligence, or anything else of a similarly trivial nature, please continue, it only shows the limitations of your intellect, experience, and your inherent lack of common respect and character. I hope you are, in the future, able to put your critical analyses to better use. And Manny, if you still think I'm talking ou of my ***, I'd be delighted to have my *** explain this to you, personally.
10-20-2004, 01:20 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
Originally Posted by Wish-it-was-AWD
I apologize for not explaining that I was comparing them relative to their volume...assumptions now stated...flat on all "EQ" functions, comparing the Alpine on a 30 point volume scale and the eclipse on 100 (their max "volume" levels), with same power souce, in the same vehicle, with all other mitigating variables controlled as much as possible. I established baselines at min., max., established means, modes, medians, variance and standard deviations, then performing independent samples t test, (Levene's test to establish assumption of equality of variance first) to procure the significance of the differrence in average of the means and possibility of TYPE I and TYPE II errors. Obviously I tried multiple, standardized reproductions of the test, varying only one variable at a time to retain construct and convergent validity, test-restest reliablity. Scores were plotted with respect to a "normal" distribution on a histogram for THD@ Equivalent Incremental levels of 5 on comparitive scale mentioned earlier and output voltage at the RCAs and line level input at the amp....my point was that at given equal "volume", ,i.e. output levels, levels of voltage were not proportionate, specifically, the Eclipse would vary it's output voltage in a nonlinear fashion, dependent on many factors that I was able to identify such as musical dynamic content, i.e. range,etc., the eclipse would drop voltage (clip) from what I can best detemine as overloaded processes to thew fact that it was simply asked to do too much, i.e. too may multi-bit D/A coverters, etc. to put a respectable, stable output voltage as the Alpine did. Problems with my experiment are limited by the fact that I only used two Alpine CDA-7949s and three Eclipse H/Us 5508s or 5533 or something like that (sorry I can't remember the exact model#), which leaves me with relatively poor external reliability. Sorry for trying to simplify it for others, I was only trying to make it more pallatable for the lay person in Audio and electronics but if you still have an issue with my data and experience, please post some "scientific" data of your own, or that is peer-reviewed, that you have found results contrary to mine. I would welcome it, as it would further my understanding by providing me with more knowledge. If, on the other hand yoiu simply want to question my integrity, intelligence, or anything else of a similarly trivial nature, please continue, it only shows the limitations of your intellect, experience, and your inherent lack of common respect and character. I hope you are, in the future, able to put your critical analyses to better use. And Manny, if you still think I'm talking ou of my ***, I'd be delighted to have my *** explain this to you, personally.
by the way, no one gives a damn about 400 years of installer experience. that does not give you any engineering credibility. my mom has used a phone for over 45 years...does that make her an expert on frequency or amplitude modulation? installers just install. it is not hard to be an installer...hell they even give out MECP certificates to people that dont know how to bias a damn diode...that does not make you technically savvy. one more thing, i dont care if you like/respect me
10-20-2004, 04:08 PM
#51
These are the reasons why I think you are FOS.........
You've been owned CLEARLY by friendshasmax above, so I wont repeat the gayness of this statement.......Your specific unit has non clipping 4v outputs-why dont you just say that since that is a FACT- so god bless you, that you invested in a sweet deck at the time-but the rest of the companies offerings are not as great-
^^You owned them, but you do not recall specific model #'s- Great experiment:thumsup:
Because according to this statement below......
V
You stated that you tested an 8v Eclipse unit -yet Eclipse 8v units begin with a CD-8xxx- so what are you talking about? If you actually tried 4 different of the same units like you said you did and had issues- you'd at least come close to the model # I would think......And If you tested model #'s beginning with a 5 that would siggest a 5v unit, so much for your comparo.....
And LASTLY- you are comparing an Alpine that HAS NO INTERNAL AMPLIFIER
to other decks that do(and are also decks that now are 5+years old) We're are in 2004
Not a great basis for a comparison between SQ IMO and holds no weight to the products offered TODAY- You argue that Alpine specializes in car audio only, yet they haven't found a way to offer the consumer the level of CD reading capability that Eclipse employs, 5v/8v with 55ohm low output impedance and alpha processing 24bit crystal DAC's(things that actually do something SQ wise) in $500-600 units- now thats a commitment to SQ- ala Nakamici, in which SQ and hardware come first.....cosmetics is for the birds
To get a simple 1bit regulated DCA in an Alpine deck, or you can get more technology from Eclipse- same price range
I'm not saying Alpine decks suck, just there are better SQ decks out there
Its ok to recognize that-
Originally Posted by Wish-it-was-AWD
and the "8V" output on the new Eclipse was not constant, in fact it would drop to less than 3 oftentimes, but my Alpine is 4 volts constant; peaky output voltage=shifting power and distortion in the system.
Originally Posted by Wish-it-was-AWD
Problems with my experiment are limited by the fact that I only used two Alpine CDA-7949s and three Eclipse H/Us 5508s or 5533 or something like that (sorry I can't remember the exact model#), which leaves me with relatively poor external reliability.
Because according to this statement below......
V
Originally Posted by Wish-it-was-AWD
I've owned the top of the line alpine CDA-7949 and two top of the line eclipse H/Us 5303r and the "8volt" pre-out successor...both eclipses sounded good....
And LASTLY- you are comparing an Alpine that HAS NO INTERNAL AMPLIFIER
to other decks that do(and are also decks that now are 5+years old) We're are in 2004
Not a great basis for a comparison between SQ IMO and holds no weight to the products offered TODAY- You argue that Alpine specializes in car audio only, yet they haven't found a way to offer the consumer the level of CD reading capability that Eclipse employs, 5v/8v with 55ohm low output impedance and alpha processing 24bit crystal DAC's(things that actually do something SQ wise) in $500-600 units- now thats a commitment to SQ- ala Nakamici, in which SQ and hardware come first.....cosmetics is for the birds
To get a simple 1bit regulated DCA in an Alpine deck, or you can get more technology from Eclipse- same price range
I'm not saying Alpine decks suck, just there are better SQ decks out there
Its ok to recognize that-
10-20-2004, 07:45 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Queens
Posts: 522
hmmm. wish it was awd... you are 26 yrs old? you have been working for 15 years? that means you started when you were 11? lol
triple major? its hard enough to get a double major (meaning being allowed to by the university) and you pulled off a triple major?
*cough* bu!!**** *cough*
triple major? its hard enough to get a double major (meaning being allowed to by the university) and you pulled off a triple major?
*cough* bu!!**** *cough*
10-20-2004, 09:45 PM
#53
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
Originally Posted by Wish-it-was-AWD
And Manny, if you still think I'm talking ou of my ***, I'd be delighted to have my *** explain this to you, personally.
Secondly I cant even begin to get started on the consistant contridictions you make to yourself, as well as you apparently are very well mislead by Yourself. Im sure you SKIMMED an EE book here or there, but apparently didnt actually READ it. Thus making your knowledge in this field useless. Theres many here that will and have called you on your statements and you were OWNED each time. Please post Factual Information, or dont bother posting. Opinions are one thing, leave them at that, but PLEASE dont pretend to be the all mighty of knowledge when you clearly are not. And 15 years? LoL Came right out of elementary school huh? I can however believe some of that, as your statements confirm it.
Thanks for playing, Have a good day.
10-21-2004, 11:31 AM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 152
Manny, sorry, I am indded too busy to remember a model# from a deck that sucked *** 5 years ago, moot point, and your writing is atrocious. I never claimed to be an electrical engineer, only a consumer, who installed to pay for my vice, good tunes. And friend....I did start working, but I was actually nine, somethnig you would, and could never un derstand. I grew up with one disabled parent, my mother, and I had to work to keep them from forclosing on our house, and I have a triple major and double minor at a four-star L.A. school with a $22,000 par annumm scholarship. I got it because I placed out of nearly every requisite entry-level class. And if you ever doubt me, it's only because your life looks so sad in comparison, ****....threat or no, rest assured if we ever meet....And pearl, it was not a threat....just an invitation for Manny to kiss my a$$...and I have never read any books....and as far as being owned...I don't see the fact that people can do nothing more than find false fault as an "ownership" of another...if anyone else had posted any data at all, that supports their point I might be more willing to accept this...I intended to explain my experience, to help someone decide....something these key-pecking trogolodyte ****'s on this board have no concept of....maybe manny and friend should live together as hetero? life partners and leave the rest of the free-thinking people who haven't had everything in their life given to them alone....I will no longer dignify their embessillic trash-talking on here, as I have a life off the board...and I never claimed to be any kind of almighty, know-it-all as some people clearly are trying to....if any of the respondents actually understood my point, none of this would have happened, but clearly some people....so friend, not a threat, a promise, If you want to meet up to discuss this, I would be happy to straighten your misunderstandings out, and Manny, you are a sad, sad little man, try getting laid, it might make you a little more laid back, and less prone to attacking others when clearly there are things you need to work on improving within yourself...**** so small you **** on your *****...sounds trite doesn't it?
10-21-2004, 11:40 AM
#55
sorry lil' man- married w/ children, and run my own business
You on the other hand, a sad excuse for a 27 yr old- making up shyt, trying to impress lil' kids on the org- guess what, all orgers aren't lil' kids- you've been owned sucka- take it like a man, STFU and keep it movin'.....
You on the other hand, a sad excuse for a 27 yr old- making up shyt, trying to impress lil' kids on the org- guess what, all orgers aren't lil' kids- you've been owned sucka- take it like a man, STFU and keep it movin'.....
10-21-2004, 11:50 AM
#56
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
Originally Posted by Wish-it-was-AWD
And if you ever doubt me, it's only because your life looks so sad in comparison, ****....threat or no, rest assured if we ever meet....And pearl, it was not a threat....just an invitation for Manny to kiss my a$$...
....so friend, not a threat, a promise, If you want to meet up to discuss this, I would be happy to straighten your misunderstandings out,
and Manny, you are a sad, sad little man, try getting laid, it might make you a little more laid back, and less prone to attacking others when clearly there are things you need to work on improving within yourself...**** so small you **** on your *****...sounds trite doesn't it?
....so friend, not a threat, a promise, If you want to meet up to discuss this, I would be happy to straighten your misunderstandings out,
and Manny, you are a sad, sad little man, try getting laid, it might make you a little more laid back, and less prone to attacking others when clearly there are things you need to work on improving within yourself...**** so small you **** on your *****...sounds trite doesn't it?
BTW..keep "Wishin"
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