My Quandry - suggestios welcome
05-31-2005, 10:20 AM
#1
My Quandry - suggestios welcome
So, I'm slowly putting my system together and I wanted to share my quandry with you all to see what suggestions you have.
Basically I'm going with this hybrid 4 way setup. I call it "hybrid" because I like to use active crossovers (nothing passive) and there are LOTS of overlapping xover points as follows:
DLS Iridium Tweeters - 1KHz and up
DLS Iridium 3" mids - 250Hz - 8000Hz
8" Mid basses (brand TBD) - 60Hz - ~1000Hz (is this too high?)
(2) 10" IB mounted subs (brand TBD) - 80Hz and below
As you can see, none of these x-over points really match up very well. I will have 2 MB Quart 4 channel amps (8 total channels) with 2 channels dedicated to each pair of speakers. Amps have good x-over adjustability (continuously variable from 50Hz - 5000Hz, high pass or low pass on each channel), which will provide for some flexibility. However, I was hoping to use the x-over internal to the headunit (headunit also TBD), but I cannot find a headunit that is flexible enough and won't cost me more than $300 (even used). Main features I'm looking for in a Head Unit are (3) 4V+ pre outs, Sirius compatibility, MP3 compatibility and a 3 way crossover built in. The only unit I have found that I like is the Alpine 9835, but they're routinely running $400+.
Other options are to use *gasp* the passive x-overs that come with the DLS equipment (there is a midbass/tweet unit AND a unit dedicated to the 3" mids, but this set would then only be bi-ampable to mids ... midbass and tweets would have to share the same power - I would lose some adjustability here), or I could also buy an outboard 3-4 way crossover ... but I have found these induce noise more often than not, including Phoenix Gold and Audio Control.
Does anyone see anything here I'm missing? I'm just trying to do this right the first time and not screw around with this system. I plan on Dynamatting to the "T" and putting in the work to completely seal the trunk off for the IB subs.
Any/all suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Basically I'm going with this hybrid 4 way setup. I call it "hybrid" because I like to use active crossovers (nothing passive) and there are LOTS of overlapping xover points as follows:
DLS Iridium Tweeters - 1KHz and up
DLS Iridium 3" mids - 250Hz - 8000Hz
8" Mid basses (brand TBD) - 60Hz - ~1000Hz (is this too high?)
(2) 10" IB mounted subs (brand TBD) - 80Hz and below
As you can see, none of these x-over points really match up very well. I will have 2 MB Quart 4 channel amps (8 total channels) with 2 channels dedicated to each pair of speakers. Amps have good x-over adjustability (continuously variable from 50Hz - 5000Hz, high pass or low pass on each channel), which will provide for some flexibility. However, I was hoping to use the x-over internal to the headunit (headunit also TBD), but I cannot find a headunit that is flexible enough and won't cost me more than $300 (even used). Main features I'm looking for in a Head Unit are (3) 4V+ pre outs, Sirius compatibility, MP3 compatibility and a 3 way crossover built in. The only unit I have found that I like is the Alpine 9835, but they're routinely running $400+.
Other options are to use *gasp* the passive x-overs that come with the DLS equipment (there is a midbass/tweet unit AND a unit dedicated to the 3" mids, but this set would then only be bi-ampable to mids ... midbass and tweets would have to share the same power - I would lose some adjustability here), or I could also buy an outboard 3-4 way crossover ... but I have found these induce noise more often than not, including Phoenix Gold and Audio Control.
Does anyone see anything here I'm missing? I'm just trying to do this right the first time and not screw around with this system. I plan on Dynamatting to the "T" and putting in the work to completely seal the trunk off for the IB subs.
Any/all suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
05-31-2005, 10:29 AM
#3
I tend to get a bit irritable
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Definately an Eclipse over the Alpine. Alpines have been proven time and time again to not provide their advertised preout power. '05 units are even worse.
To solve all of your issues look into an Arc DXE.... www.arcaudio.com probably the best investment Ive Ever made into my systems
To solve all of your issues look into an Arc DXE.... www.arcaudio.com probably the best investment Ive Ever made into my systems
05-31-2005, 10:59 AM
#5
Oh ... and I can get one of these: http://www.altomobile.com/html/ucs_pro.html for $200 ... brand new ...
EDIT: Not the UCS Pro, but just the UCS that they no longer sell. Supposed to be same specs. Apparently the units had a factory defect in that they could not retain their settings so I know a guy getting rid of one that is NIB for $200.
EDIT: Not the UCS Pro, but just the UCS that they no longer sell. Supposed to be same specs. Apparently the units had a factory defect in that they could not retain their settings so I know a guy getting rid of one that is NIB for $200.
05-31-2005, 03:21 PM
#7
Originally Posted by Metal Maxima
Just as a suggestion, don't use Dynamat. You will be much happier using deadening from either Cascade or Second Skin audio.
05-31-2005, 06:21 PM
#8
Originally Posted by Pearl96Max
Definately an Eclipse over the Alpine. Alpines have been proven time and time again to not provide their advertised preout power. '05 units are even worse.
To solve all of your issues look into an Arc DXE.... www.arcaudio.com probably the best investment Ive Ever made into my systems
To solve all of your issues look into an Arc DXE.... www.arcaudio.com probably the best investment Ive Ever made into my systems
If I had a choice I would mimic Jeremys system in almost every way. Def if you can spend the cash do an Eclipse AVN with the Arc Audio DXE. You WIL NOT be dissapointed. I was just going for under $300.
05-31-2005, 06:42 PM
#9
Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
Let me guess...just because Dynamat is to EXPENSIVE??? I'm getting so tired of hearing people knock Dynamat because of its price. I have never used anything that works better than Dynamat Xtreme, and if u want it cheaper than buying it at a shop, buy it from eBay. It's about 1/2 the price than ur gonna pay from a stereo shop.
05-31-2005, 06:56 PM
#10
Originally Posted by filtor1
Well, la dee dah. Mr. Money bags over here.
If I had a choice I would mimic Jeremys system in almost every way. Def if you can spend the cash do an Eclipse AVN with the Arc Audio DXE. You WIL NOT be dissapointed. I was just going for under $300.
If I had a choice I would mimic Jeremys system in almost every way. Def if you can spend the cash do an Eclipse AVN with the Arc Audio DXE. You WIL NOT be dissapointed. I was just going for under $300.
+1
05-31-2005, 08:09 PM
#13
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
Originally Posted by '96MaxGLE
Let me guess...just because Dynamat is to EXPENSIVE??? I'm getting so tired of hearing people knock Dynamat because of its price. I have never used anything that works better than Dynamat Xtreme, and if u want it cheaper than buying it at a shop, buy it from eBay. It's about 1/2 the price than ur gonna pay from a stereo shop.
Feel free to shop FleaBay. While your at it, also call Dynamat (Dynamic Control) and ask them how much money they lost last year due to fraudelent products.
05-31-2005, 08:11 PM
#14
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,671
Originally Posted by filtor1
Well, la dee dah. Mr. Money bags over here.
If I had a choice I would mimic Jeremys system in almost every way. Def if you can spend the cash do an Eclipse AVN with the Arc Audio DXE. You WIL NOT be dissapointed. I was just going for under $300.
If I had a choice I would mimic Jeremys system in almost every way. Def if you can spend the cash do an Eclipse AVN with the Arc Audio DXE. You WIL NOT be dissapointed. I was just going for under $300.
Of course Chris if you want my mortgage Id be more than happy to forward it to ya
05-31-2005, 09:34 PM
#15
I used second skin on my last car, and it worked well. It seems like the Dynamat Xtreme I have put n my Max has worked better. I'm not gettin pissy at everyone, just stating my opinion. As far as the whole eBay thing goes, u have to do a little seller research b4 buying stuff. I had always been skeptical about purchasing from there, but its a lot more "legit" than it was 2-3 yrs ago. As far as an expensive piece of audio equipment, i wouldn't buy from there just because they come with no warranty.
Back to the original thread since I whored it up a lil bit: Sounds like an awesome setup ur gonna b running. Although it's gonna b a lot of time spent tweaking, it should definatly b a killer SQ setup.
Back to the original thread since I whored it up a lil bit: Sounds like an awesome setup ur gonna b running. Although it's gonna b a lot of time spent tweaking, it should definatly b a killer SQ setup.
06-01-2005, 06:12 AM
#17
Originally Posted by filtor1
The 9833 is 3 way and you can get them under $300. I wish I still lived in Tampa. I would love to work on this with you! Anyway, can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve(products).
06-01-2005, 06:36 AM
#18
There's absolutly nothing wrong with the DLS passives for your midrange/tweet-they are actually designed for them to cross those high frequencies where the drivers rolloff best
- to actively run each speaker benefits mostly when you are mixing various drivers,
and you are trying to find the best balance between them- you main concern should be the midbass/ midrange x-over rolloff... Just cross them over ~200-300hz(or where desired)
- to actively run each speaker benefits mostly when you are mixing various drivers,
and you are trying to find the best balance between them- you main concern should be the midbass/ midrange x-over rolloff... Just cross them over ~200-300hz(or where desired)
06-01-2005, 07:02 AM
#19
There are actually 2 sets of passives for the Iridium set. One set for tweet/midbass and another set for the 3" midrange on it's own. I assume that they cross the tweet/midbass at 1000Hz-2000Hz or thereabouts and the midranges probably run through almost their entire advertized usable range of 250Hz - 8000Hz. By using all active crossovers you have far more flexibility than you would ever have running passives, including slope control allowing for a cutoff closer to a speaker's limits.
How high can/should you cross IB subs in a rear deck application? If I remember correctly, you can go up a little higher as these notes are still omni-directional up to 200Hz or so ... anyone know for sure? I can't find a whole lot of technical papers on IB sub applications.
How high can/should you cross IB subs in a rear deck application? If I remember correctly, you can go up a little higher as these notes are still omni-directional up to 200Hz or so ... anyone know for sure? I can't find a whole lot of technical papers on IB sub applications.
06-01-2005, 10:13 AM
#23
Originally Posted by filtor1
I am. I paid $380 for mine. Just before the 9835 came out. I went back to the shop and the price was $300 for the 9833.
I thought you meant the DXE was $300. You were only talking about the headunit ... makes more sense.
06-01-2005, 10:15 AM
#24
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
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Originally Posted by Big_Ham
I misunderstood your original comment. I thought you meant the DXE was $300. You were only talking about the headunit ... makes more sense.
I thought you meant the DXE was $300. You were only talking about the headunit ... makes more sense.I wish the DXE was only $300, I would keep them in stock regularly.
06-02-2005, 12:18 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,771
Originally Posted by Big_Ham
...there are LOTS of overlapping xover points as follows:
DLS Iridium Tweeters - 1KHz and up
DLS Iridium 3" mids - 250Hz - 8000Hz
8" Mid basses (brand TBD) - 60Hz - ~1000Hz (is this too high?)
(2) 10" IB mounted subs (brand TBD) - 80Hz and below
As you can see, none of these x-over points really match up very well.
DLS Iridium Tweeters - 1KHz and up
DLS Iridium 3" mids - 250Hz - 8000Hz
8" Mid basses (brand TBD) - 60Hz - ~1000Hz (is this too high?)
(2) 10" IB mounted subs (brand TBD) - 80Hz and below
As you can see, none of these x-over points really match up very well.
Yes, it's nice using the xovers on the amps because they're continuously variable. But it's also nice to use the HU xovers because you can adjust them from your seat. Many HU manufacturers allow you do view the owners manuals online, so if you like a certain model I'd start there by reading the manual and seeing how flexible the xovers are and go from there.
Tony
06-02-2005, 12:42 PM
#26
For the most part, these are the usable frequencies of the speakers from the manufacturer and not necessarily the crossover points I'm thinking of.
Believe me, I've tuned enough cars that I know nothing is concrete until you listen to it! The only concrete point is the split to the amps ... which I'm leaning towards 350Hz. This means the amp running the 3" mids and 1" tweets will see 350Hz and up and the amp running the 8" midbasses and 10" subs will see 350 and below. Another split (frequency TBD) will be between the two sets of speakers on those amps.
Believe me, I've tuned enough cars that I know nothing is concrete until you listen to it! The only concrete point is the split to the amps ... which I'm leaning towards 350Hz. This means the amp running the 3" mids and 1" tweets will see 350Hz and up and the amp running the 8" midbasses and 10" subs will see 350 and below. Another split (frequency TBD) will be between the two sets of speakers on those amps.
06-03-2005, 12:58 PM
#27
Hey Big_Ham figured I would post a link to a 1/2 DIN crossover I saw F/S on caraudio.com...thought you may b interested n this...
http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=100957
http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=100957
06-03-2005, 02:25 PM
#28
Quite a neat little piece there ... but I'm looking to spend significantly less than that at the moment. Funds are running dry quickly and I may just pick up an Audio Control unit with speaker level ins so I can also skip the headunit purchase for now. The headunit I want is $400 ... and that's simply not in the bank right now.
However ... when the time comes I may look into this unit. VERY nice piece.
However ... when the time comes I may look into this unit. VERY nice piece.
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