The Definitive Sound-Deadening Thread!!!
11-09-2006, 07:20 PM
#41
Originally Posted by slickrick
I might have posted this a long time ago but for a refresher...Edead=worthless. Buy second skin or cascade from Don.
11-10-2006, 06:22 PM
#42
Originally Posted by madmik
Based on ? All my road noise is gone, I get a lot less heat from the engine and the bass from by Bose is 2-3X stronger/crisper using about 80sq ft (20 lbs), single layer mostly. For me, the product is performing well. I wanted the aluminum backing. Others may be lighter or quieter but I was not looking for a 40db level.
11-12-2006, 03:19 PM
#43
Here is photo of all the different sound deadening materials I've used, and my opinion on each.
Looking at the material from left to right....
The flat silver colored sheet on the left is Damplifier from SecondSkinaudio. I found it to be the best quality dampening mat of all I bought. More dense than the others, tough aluminum layer, yet very flexible. It's my 1st choice now.
Underneath the Damplifier is RAMMmat BXT by RAAMaudio...the silver stuff with waves in it. A darn good product. I've used a lot of BXT, primarily because of price. Plus RAAMaudio doesn't gouge customers with their shipping. Use RAAMaudio's shipping estimator and then compare the same weight with someone else. I found their shipping to be 30-40% less. And considering how heavy some of this stuff is to order, shipping cost is nothing to sneeze at! I've never bought Dynamat Extreme, but took some off my son's vehicle. With the exception of the heavier aluminum layer, I thought BXT and DM Extreme were identical. The only thing I do not like about BXT is the butyl rubber is soft and will ooze out from under the aluminum if pushed too hard. After using this stuff on 2 vehicles so far, I have yet to cut my hands on it's aluminum foil. I like that. I have no picture of RAAMaudio's spray adhesive, but I've found it to hold better than 3M spray adhesive.
In between the Damplifier and RAAMmat is Ensolite foam. I've used it as a cover on top of the RAAMmat BXT. IMHO, I'm not sure there is much sound deadening value to Ensolite, but it provides a cool finish look and protects other stuff from getting dirty from any butyl rubber that comes off the dampening mat.
Moving on to the right, the small dark gray, triangle shaped pad on the very bottom is Luxury Liner by SecondSkinaudio. It is a 1 lb per sq. ft. sound barrier much in the same class of products as Dynamat Dynapad or B-Quiet's Lcomp, only cheaper. It is a very heavy product, but flexible and trims easily. I put it on the floor and trunk of my son's Escape. Based on that experience, I can honestly say it works as advertised. It is a "barrier" that truely does not let any sound get thru. I'll use it again.
On top of the Luxury Liner, is the black colored Rattle Pad by SeconSkinaudio. This is a lightweight acoustic foam designed for use under trim and door panels. Easy to work with, cuts well, and does a good job stoping sound from coming thru doors and other openings. I'd never put any brand of dampening mat on a door without putting something like this in the door panel.
On top of the Rattle Pad is Dynamat's Dynaliner. In fact you can see some of the word, Dynaliner, exposed. This is an acoustic foam, like Rattle Pad, but much more dense. It has an excellent adhesive backing already attached. I used it on the roof of may son's Escape, and also put scrap pieces on interior trim. I think it is a very high quality product. It is also expensive. I found the best prices on eBay from commercial e-sellers. I simply called them directly and bought, bypassing the auction process.
On top of the Dynaliner are two engine hood products: MotorMat by SecondSkinaudio and Hoodliner by Dynamat. They sort of blend together in the photograph. I found them to be virtually identical products except that Hoodliner is thicker, 3/4" vs. 1/2 for MotorMat. The adhesive backing is very tacky and sticks on contact, making it tough to align squarely. So go slow with this stuff. On my son's Escape I could hear a noticeable improvement with MotorMat installed over the Escape's noisy V6 Duratec engine. On the Maxima however, I could hardly tell any difference at all with the Hoodliner. Guess it depends on the engine.
The last thing on the far top right is Quiet Batt acoustical sound insulation. I bought this from AMI at soundproffoam.com. This insulation is 3 1/2" recycled cotton. It is dense, fire and mildew treated. It is intended for use in houses, but I bought it to put in the big open spaces in my car...behind wheel wells, on top of rear wheels, in open voids, and the like. Plus, I would NEVER use fiberglass insulation in a car. The only problem with this stuff is that minimum size is 32 feet long. So you end up with tons left over when finished.
Here are my two posts for the the Escape and Maxima so you can see how all this junk was actually installed.
Escape Maxima
Looking at the material from left to right....
The flat silver colored sheet on the left is Damplifier from SecondSkinaudio. I found it to be the best quality dampening mat of all I bought. More dense than the others, tough aluminum layer, yet very flexible. It's my 1st choice now.
Underneath the Damplifier is RAMMmat BXT by RAAMaudio...the silver stuff with waves in it. A darn good product. I've used a lot of BXT, primarily because of price. Plus RAAMaudio doesn't gouge customers with their shipping. Use RAAMaudio's shipping estimator and then compare the same weight with someone else. I found their shipping to be 30-40% less. And considering how heavy some of this stuff is to order, shipping cost is nothing to sneeze at! I've never bought Dynamat Extreme, but took some off my son's vehicle. With the exception of the heavier aluminum layer, I thought BXT and DM Extreme were identical. The only thing I do not like about BXT is the butyl rubber is soft and will ooze out from under the aluminum if pushed too hard. After using this stuff on 2 vehicles so far, I have yet to cut my hands on it's aluminum foil. I like that. I have no picture of RAAMaudio's spray adhesive, but I've found it to hold better than 3M spray adhesive.
In between the Damplifier and RAAMmat is Ensolite foam. I've used it as a cover on top of the RAAMmat BXT. IMHO, I'm not sure there is much sound deadening value to Ensolite, but it provides a cool finish look and protects other stuff from getting dirty from any butyl rubber that comes off the dampening mat.
Moving on to the right, the small dark gray, triangle shaped pad on the very bottom is Luxury Liner by SecondSkinaudio. It is a 1 lb per sq. ft. sound barrier much in the same class of products as Dynamat Dynapad or B-Quiet's Lcomp, only cheaper. It is a very heavy product, but flexible and trims easily. I put it on the floor and trunk of my son's Escape. Based on that experience, I can honestly say it works as advertised. It is a "barrier" that truely does not let any sound get thru. I'll use it again.
On top of the Luxury Liner, is the black colored Rattle Pad by SeconSkinaudio. This is a lightweight acoustic foam designed for use under trim and door panels. Easy to work with, cuts well, and does a good job stoping sound from coming thru doors and other openings. I'd never put any brand of dampening mat on a door without putting something like this in the door panel.
On top of the Rattle Pad is Dynamat's Dynaliner. In fact you can see some of the word, Dynaliner, exposed. This is an acoustic foam, like Rattle Pad, but much more dense. It has an excellent adhesive backing already attached. I used it on the roof of may son's Escape, and also put scrap pieces on interior trim. I think it is a very high quality product. It is also expensive. I found the best prices on eBay from commercial e-sellers. I simply called them directly and bought, bypassing the auction process.
On top of the Dynaliner are two engine hood products: MotorMat by SecondSkinaudio and Hoodliner by Dynamat. They sort of blend together in the photograph. I found them to be virtually identical products except that Hoodliner is thicker, 3/4" vs. 1/2 for MotorMat. The adhesive backing is very tacky and sticks on contact, making it tough to align squarely. So go slow with this stuff. On my son's Escape I could hear a noticeable improvement with MotorMat installed over the Escape's noisy V6 Duratec engine. On the Maxima however, I could hardly tell any difference at all with the Hoodliner. Guess it depends on the engine.
The last thing on the far top right is Quiet Batt acoustical sound insulation. I bought this from AMI at soundproffoam.com. This insulation is 3 1/2" recycled cotton. It is dense, fire and mildew treated. It is intended for use in houses, but I bought it to put in the big open spaces in my car...behind wheel wells, on top of rear wheels, in open voids, and the like. Plus, I would NEVER use fiberglass insulation in a car. The only problem with this stuff is that minimum size is 32 feet long. So you end up with tons left over when finished.
Here are my two posts for the the Escape and Maxima so you can see how all this junk was actually installed.
Escape Maxima
11-13-2006, 10:51 AM
#44
knapp9, That is an amazing write-up! Thanks for sharing. My biggest concern about doing a full sound-deadening job is removing door panels and all the plastic crap without breaking it and then getting it all back in properly. Is there a walkthrough that you could point me to. I've got an 01 I30, so its pretty much the same as your Max.
04-12-2007, 07:48 AM
#49
i only have experience with dynamat extreme mats and cascade audio VBlok VB-2MPC. ive only baught the 4sq ft packs of both products (a couple of each), but have got to say when i get a new car and do it over...i will NEVER waste money on dynamat again. sure it works. but it was more expensive than cascade and cascade works BETTER. i only wish i applied the cascade with a heat gun because a few small sections are falling off. i believe 1 pack of 4sqft of cascade cost about $15 while the same amount of dynamat cost $45. not to mention the cascade is a HELL of a lot lighter than the dynamat. so IMO, cascade over dynomat anyday.
now i have a question though...i heard that the liquid sound deadeners do not work half as good as a mat. is this true? what are the best liquid deadeners in your opinion? anyone have experience with the cascade liquid deadener?
now i have a question though...i heard that the liquid sound deadeners do not work half as good as a mat. is this true? what are the best liquid deadeners in your opinion? anyone have experience with the cascade liquid deadener?
06-10-2007, 10:06 PM
#53
Anybody used Quietcar liquid? Some guys on the S2K forum love it and used it in combination with Dynamat or other pad deadeners. http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...ic=275932&st=0
I like the idea of having a liquid deadener to get all the nooks and crannies, but at $70ish a gallon I want to make sure it's worth it. Also, it seems most logical to apply the liquid to the car first, and then put the pads on top of that but the S2K guy did it the other way around.
Finally, is 100 sq ft. a good estimate for the entire passenger cabin (basically everything except the trunk) or how much? Thanks for any help.
I like the idea of having a liquid deadener to get all the nooks and crannies, but at $70ish a gallon I want to make sure it's worth it. Also, it seems most logical to apply the liquid to the car first, and then put the pads on top of that but the S2K guy did it the other way around.
Finally, is 100 sq ft. a good estimate for the entire passenger cabin (basically everything except the trunk) or how much? Thanks for any help.
06-11-2007, 05:55 PM
#55
Well, Metal Maxima seems to think that liquids are a good option. Why do you think they're not worth it? And what would you suggest, just a layer or two of pad deadener and nothing else?
06-11-2007, 06:32 PM
#56
ive heard that the liquid deadeners work, but not as well as the padding. i guess the main (and possibly only) advantage of the liquid deadener would be that it can get into tight places you might not beable to get a pad.
09-06-2007, 07:20 PM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
01-01-2008, 10:34 PM
#59
thinking on getting the dynamat xtreme bulk pack... i want to do all 4 doors, pillars, and trunk.
the trunk will be seeing a 3000Wat sub... yes, just one sub (alpine type X) so i want some good stuff. I already have 4 mid bass drivers and 2 tweeters which are hooked up to an amp, and my doors rattle and **** me off, and im sick of it..
how much sq feet would i need for this type of project...
or name a better product than dynamat and let me know how much sq feet would i need for that.
I plan on doing this on my own but with a lil pro installer help and i want the trunk doubled up if thats even needed... lemmie know guys
the trunk will be seeing a 3000Wat sub... yes, just one sub (alpine type X) so i want some good stuff. I already have 4 mid bass drivers and 2 tweeters which are hooked up to an amp, and my doors rattle and **** me off, and im sick of it..
how much sq feet would i need for this type of project...
or name a better product than dynamat and let me know how much sq feet would i need for that.
I plan on doing this on my own but with a lil pro installer help and i want the trunk doubled up if thats even needed... lemmie know guys
01-02-2008, 09:16 AM
#61
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: the OC & Silicon Valley
Posts: 2,586
thinking on getting the dynamat xtreme bulk pack... i want to do all 4 doors, pillars, and trunk.
the trunk will be seeing a 3000Wat sub... yes, just one sub (alpine type X) so i want some good stuff. I already have 4 mid bass drivers and 2 tweeters which are hooked up to an amp, and my doors rattle and **** me off, and im sick of it..
how much sq feet would i need for this type of project...
or name a better product than dynamat and let me know how much sq feet would i need for that.
I plan on doing this on my own but with a lil pro installer help and i want the trunk doubled up if thats even needed... lemmie know guys
the trunk will be seeing a 3000Wat sub... yes, just one sub (alpine type X) so i want some good stuff. I already have 4 mid bass drivers and 2 tweeters which are hooked up to an amp, and my doors rattle and **** me off, and im sick of it..
how much sq feet would i need for this type of project...
or name a better product than dynamat and let me know how much sq feet would i need for that.
I plan on doing this on my own but with a lil pro installer help and i want the trunk doubled up if thats even needed... lemmie know guys
01-02-2008, 01:33 PM
#62
the power range on them is 1,000 wats rms... the peak power handling is 3,000w per speaker.
just with one hooked up to an alpine amp im sure it will sound nice... thats why im getting one, to see if 2 would be necessary.
they hit hard, i read a ton of reviews.. even tho this is not a sound deaden convo let me make it one...
if i were to get 1 sub and amp, a single layer would be fine im guessing ...
but two subs and amps i would have to double up .. the material.
also i heard alot of complaints about the dynamat... and kind of iffy on them now, whats the next best mat??
01-16-2008, 11:11 AM
#67
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New City, NY
Posts: 552
FWIW, i'll make my first useful post in the audio section. I will be reviewing edead. So far i ordered 120Sq Ft monday morning, so shipping times cant be quoted yet. Shipped price came to $1.10 per square foot. Not a bad deal in my opinion if it infact is any good. Front doors are already covered with FatMat with no substanstial difference in sound, sorry i was too busy doing the job and forgot pics. Once the Edead comes in you'll get plenty of pics.
What i can tell you as of now, the company is very good to deal with. I bought the item on ebay Sunday night, monday morning i call and wanted to give them my debit card(dont like using paypal). They got right to the point, no waisting of time, no BS. Extremely friendly guys there, and only took 30 seconds and i was off to work.
I'll keep you guys tuned on Pics and Progress.
What i can tell you as of now, the company is very good to deal with. I bought the item on ebay Sunday night, monday morning i call and wanted to give them my debit card(dont like using paypal). They got right to the point, no waisting of time, no BS. Extremely friendly guys there, and only took 30 seconds and i was off to work.
I'll keep you guys tuned on Pics and Progress.
01-16-2008, 11:16 AM
#68
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,674
FWIW, i'll make my first useful post in the audio section. I will be reviewing edead. So far i ordered 120Sq Ft monday morning, so shipping times cant be quoted yet. Shipped price came to $1.10 per square foot. Not a bad deal in my opinion if it infact is any good. Front doors are already covered with FatMat with no substanstial difference in sound, sorry i was too busy doing the job and forgot pics. Once the Edead comes in you'll get plenty of pics.
What i can tell you as of now, the company is very good to deal with. I bought the item on ebay Sunday night, monday morning i call and wanted to give them my debit card(dont like using paypal). They got right to the point, no waisting of time, no BS. Extremely friendly guys there, and only took 30 seconds and i was off to work.
I'll keep you guys tuned on Pics and Progress.
What i can tell you as of now, the company is very good to deal with. I bought the item on ebay Sunday night, monday morning i call and wanted to give them my debit card(dont like using paypal). They got right to the point, no waisting of time, no BS. Extremely friendly guys there, and only took 30 seconds and i was off to work.
I'll keep you guys tuned on Pics and Progress.
Perhaps you could have saved yourself alot of time and read a bit about the product first. This will also save you time further down the road when your pulling whats still - partially stuck - to your vehicle.
01-17-2008, 06:39 PM
#69
Edead seems to have improved a lot over the years (they switched to butyl for one thing). Looking at the specs for v1 and v1se they seem to be the best value but I'd be curious to hear some up-to-date experiences.
01-18-2008, 08:54 AM
#73
01-18-2008, 09:00 AM
#74
I tend to get a bit irritable
iTrader: (151)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central Jersey
Posts: 17,674
Tough call as I use a various different array. Although the VB-2Max tends to be my fav for bulking. VB-5 on all plastic to metal and vise versa situations. Deflex pads behind drivers and if you have the time and energy VB-2HD is Very effective.
I can also help substantially on pricing.
I can also help substantially on pricing.
01-18-2008, 09:19 AM
#75
Well im looking into doing my trunk sometime and the rear deck would be a good too i am assuming. I'll be running an sound splinter Rlp 12 in a sealed 1.0-1.2 cf ~700rms going to it how many layers sq. feet would you recommend and which product.
01-22-2008, 07:57 AM
#76
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New City, NY
Posts: 552
Alrighty, the edead is here and im a little downed.
Fedex came just about 10 minutes ago, i was so psyched i waited at the door as the guys went into the back of the truck. He was back there for like 2-3 minutes so i figured he must have been getting a dolly or hand cart because the stuff would be so heavy. Finally he comes out with this 12x12 cube box, and i was thinking "Oh, ED packaged each roll individually". The guy seemed like it was heavy so i started going around to my garage to get the dolly, figuring i'd take all three rolls on the dolly to the car. The guy yelled asking if i lived there and i said ye, just give me a minute to get a dolly to make it easier on you, lol. He laughed and asked why he would need a dolly, and i said to make it easier for the other two boxes. He threw me the box and told me there were no other boxes. I was cursing up fedex for delaying the other two boxes until i opened it up and realized that box held all three rolls. But there tiny. Maybe it is 120 ft but my eyes just dont see it. As for weight, maybe 25-30 pounds, whereas i was expecting closer to that much per roll.
Edit: Upon further investigation......ED forgot to send the roller to apply the Edead. Customer service was good but they should read over there auction before packing stuff. It may only be a few dollars but its not the point.
Fedex came just about 10 minutes ago, i was so psyched i waited at the door as the guys went into the back of the truck. He was back there for like 2-3 minutes so i figured he must have been getting a dolly or hand cart because the stuff would be so heavy. Finally he comes out with this 12x12 cube box, and i was thinking "Oh, ED packaged each roll individually". The guy seemed like it was heavy so i started going around to my garage to get the dolly, figuring i'd take all three rolls on the dolly to the car. The guy yelled asking if i lived there and i said ye, just give me a minute to get a dolly to make it easier on you, lol. He laughed and asked why he would need a dolly, and i said to make it easier for the other two boxes. He threw me the box and told me there were no other boxes. I was cursing up fedex for delaying the other two boxes until i opened it up and realized that box held all three rolls. But there tiny. Maybe it is 120 ft but my eyes just dont see it. As for weight, maybe 25-30 pounds, whereas i was expecting closer to that much per roll.
Edit: Upon further investigation......ED forgot to send the roller to apply the Edead. Customer service was good but they should read over there auction before packing stuff. It may only be a few dollars but its not the point.
Last edited by 97maximaman; 01-22-2008 at 08:14 AM.
04-07-2008, 09:58 AM
#79
Cascade VB-MAX2 from Don.
Customer Service
As to be expected from Don, customer service was great. I now more than I will ever need to about deadening and the companies behind the products (partly due to research, partly Don... this guy can talk
).
Product
Product came well packaged and promptly. It looks great with its anodized black finish and was suprisingly thin and lightweight. The way it was explained to me is that the butyl compound is more for adhesion while the foil is the mass, therefore the "thicker is better" mentality often works against you.
Install
The VB-MAX2 is a dream to work with (i can only compare it to early damplifier as thats the only product I've ever used) beacuse of its light weight. Since prep is everything, and my car is in a sad state, i started with a blower, then a shop vac, then soapy water, and finally wax/grease remover. Adhesion was excellent with no heat gun or roller (although both were available), just some TX heat and ravaged thumbs. This Stuff is so easy to wortk with i was actually able to lay down full sheets in some locations.
Results.
I will update this when the car is put back together.
Conclusion
Everything is adding up as expected. Looks great and applies easily. Only thing left to see is the actual performance, but knowing what I know Cascade's reputation is built off of results rather than hype so I'm not worried.
Customer Service
As to be expected from Don, customer service was great. I now more than I will ever need to about deadening and the companies behind the products (partly due to research, partly Don... this guy can talk
).Product
Product came well packaged and promptly. It looks great with its anodized black finish and was suprisingly thin and lightweight. The way it was explained to me is that the butyl compound is more for adhesion while the foil is the mass, therefore the "thicker is better" mentality often works against you.
Install
The VB-MAX2 is a dream to work with (i can only compare it to early damplifier as thats the only product I've ever used) beacuse of its light weight. Since prep is everything, and my car is in a sad state, i started with a blower, then a shop vac, then soapy water, and finally wax/grease remover. Adhesion was excellent with no heat gun or roller (although both were available), just some TX heat and ravaged thumbs. This Stuff is so easy to wortk with i was actually able to lay down full sheets in some locations.
Results.
I will update this when the car is put back together.
Conclusion
Everything is adding up as expected. Looks great and applies easily. Only thing left to see is the actual performance, but knowing what I know Cascade's reputation is built off of results rather than hype so I'm not worried.
04-07-2008, 09:05 PM
#80
Tough call as I use a various different array. Although the VB-2Max tends to be my fav for bulking. VB-5 on all plastic to metal and vise versa situations. Deflex pads behind drivers and if you have the time and energy VB-2HD is Very effective.
I can also help substantially on pricing.
I can also help substantially on pricing.