Can one of you audio gurus point me to the differences between subwoofers specified for home audio applications versus those specified for car audio applications. I am currently running JLs but got the wondering...

Thanks.

nupe

 

usually its the ohm rating of the woofer. Some are workable either way but alot of times the home woofers require more space, less power, the ohm load blah blah blah.

Are you looking to change something up or just brainstorming.

 

Actually I'm thinking about getting rid of my JL 12" sub for a smaller sub. I was looking for the 8" and the 6.5" that JL made, but those are hard to come by. So I'm flipping through one of my mags, and like damn...maybe i should consider a Dayton 8" sub. The application would be a in spare tire enclosure. I'm already working on that...I could fit my 12" in there, but I was figuring that a smaller sub would make better use of the space. The goal is to redesign the trunk and regain some of the functionality.

 

The Dayton Reference series is awesome. Only 10's and 12's though, no 8's.

Many have used home audio drivers in car, subs included.....The Adire Tempests and Shiva first come to mind, but the Reference subs are hot now and cheap for the quality of sub that you get.

 

I will be looking into that...I may end up being a tester...but no problems...just wanted to know of any personal experiences.

 

I did a Shiva back in the day for a cousin...Needs an enclosure too big for my tastes. Loud and i guess OK sounding...I thought too boomy and not the lowend extension I'd like in a 1.5 sealed..

The Dayton Reference, I thought, sounded real good...real linear, decent lowend for a 10.... as well as the 5 I breifly ran. The whole line is getting similar reviews....as in that you can't get nicer speaks for the money......

 

A sub is a sub. It's Theile/Small parameters determine whether or not it works in a car, in the home or both (sometimes neither). "Car subs" and "home subs" are built the exact same way. You can find both using paper pulp, kevlar, carbon fiber, aluminium and polypropelene cones. Both use foam or rubber surrounds. Both use the same type of spiders. There is no difference except for the marketing material. And the smart companies market to both.

-Robert

 

Home subs are typically self powered, whereas car subs usually need an amp. There is also a huge difference in type of sound, durability, and materials used to make it.

 

do elaborate. my shivas were used strictly in car and were great IMO. another orger can attest to that. nobody knew they were home audio subs that i used in my car. nor were the materials used any different besides cosmetics. yes, some home audio subs are marketed differently (read sometimes cheaper than car audio subs) because they stick to the basics and forget logos, fancy cones, etc. either way, this does not color the sound. durability is not of concern...my shivas fared better than my last set of 10's that were "car audio" subs.

 

Perhaps all you know is what you see prepackaged with a plate amp for home theater. There is a huge market as far as raw drivers, many build their own speaker cabinets.

The only differences that i could think of is that maybe some pro sound drivers may not use glues that could withstand long term the abuses of the automotive environment- in a say a door application, where moisture and water may an issue over time....but its something that has nothing to do with 'type of sound'.

Also the use of paper cones...but that is negligible...dont yout stock speakers come with paper cones?Bose?

If a speaker demands a certain enclosure, given that airpace it makes no difference whether in a car or home.

 

Techniacally, all subs (all speakers) need an amp. Yes, most home subs come as a complete package (enclosure, amp and driver) because that's what the market wants. Bazooka and a few others filled the same market in car audio with their self powered subs.

That's mostly enclosure alignment and listening environment. It's easy to get chest thumping bass and ear bleeding SPL's in a 250cf car. You would need a dozen or more 15's to re-create that in an 8,000cf living room. On the other hand, an accurate SQ system in a car should sound very close to an accurate home system.

I'm with Slickrick, please elaborate. I'll go first...O Audio markets their subs towards the home audio crowd. They are the TC2+ from TC Sounds. Says it right on O Audio's site. Soundsplinter sells their RL-i series to the car audio market. The owner frequents the car audio forums and even their official forum is on a car audio site. Mike has always stated that the RL-i series is an off-the shelf TC2+. Same driver as O Audio.

Over at SIN, Dan Wiggins (CEO of Adire Audio) has discussed in detail the entire design process of subs. Materials for items like the cone and surround are chosen based on their performance and not whether or not they are going into a home or car environment. I'm sure in his OEM business, they are chosen based on a price point. Construction methods of all his subs are the same though. He has gone into extensive detail on which adhesives are the best for each joint. One for surround to frame, one for spider to frame, one for spider to voice coil, one for voice coil to cone and one for dust cap to cone.

And finally, don't even try the low power (100w, 250w) home sub vs. the high power (1,000+w) car sub argument. I have 600w RMS available to my car sub while I have 2,400w RMS available to my home sub.

-Robert

 

Sorry to hijack this thread, but whats up Robert! long time no see, well hear

any new subs? still have the tumult?

 

WOW!!!! Someone actually noticed I was gone for a few weeks. Work has been nuts with year-end stuff. Any free time has been used to get my home theater up and working. Still need to get the projector mounted in the ceiling instead of sitting on a stand, get 7 speakers built and install 4 15" subs.

Actually, I never had a Tumult. I hope I didn't suggest that I did. I'm a TC Sounds fanboy anyway. And yes, I got a Soundsplinter RL-P 12" (its the one on the bottom, right) and a pair of Cerwin Vega V-Max 15's. I couldn't pass up the deal on the CV's. $100 each shipped and they have 20mm of xmax.

-Robert

 

Badass.

 

Not really. I'm going for 100% sound quality. It's better to spread the bass load across multiple subs so I don't push them into compression or distortion. I'm going with an infinite baffle alignment just like this (see picture #3). I got 4 of those subs directly from TC Sounds. No offense to the guy who built the sub I linked to, but I will have a much nicer baffle board.

If you really want "badass", then check out eighteen 15's.

Just to keep this thread on track, every sub I have linked to has been used successfully in both home and car installs.

-Robert

 

Wow. This makes me wish I owned my own home and had some dough to throw at it.

 

interesting links robert

gotta at least thank ya for talking about the RLps. Now I own one

 

I throw most of my dough at the bank on the first of every month. In 27 short years, it will be all mine.

That's one reason I'm seriously considering going with an IB install in my '95 max. Fire one or two 12's through the ski hole.

I've been a fan of TC Sounds since bought my first sub from them. I'm a little worried that they lost their best asset when Stephen Ponte went to SVS. But my seond favorite sub company has picked up a huge asset. AE Speakers (formerly known as Stryke Audio) picked up Deon Bearden after Klipsch let him go. Deon (aka dB, aka Dr. Bass) was a legend in the DIY world until he went pro. I'm expecting some amazing things from AE in the months to come.

-Robert

 

yeah I was thinking of going IB with the RLp in my new car. But from specs alone it doesn't sound like it'll be an ideal IB driver. I posted a thread about it over at soundsolutions but haven't got much feedback. What subs were you thinking of going IB in your max with?

 

The RL-p 15's are a very popular sub in the home IB forums. I don't see why it won't work in a car as well....I will probably start the IB with a single 12. I have one from Vamp Audio that should work. Vamp who? Dan Wiggins from Adire designed it and Eminence built it. The whole OEM deal with Adire fell through and Dan unloaded them for $75 each a few years ago. It's a Shiva but with dual 4 ohm voice coils and a smaller Vas. If that doesn't work, I have a pair of Ascendant Audio Atlas 12's, pair of Shivas, Blueprint 1201, pair of Blueprint 1001s, pair of Lambda Acoustic SB 10's (with the copper farraday motors!!!!), Stryke AV12MKII's.....The list goes on and on.

-Robert

 

I was asked to elaborate on my point of view on differences between home and car subs. Home subs are made to create bass for an open room, arent they? Car subs are made for a variety of locations depending on the type of box you use. I can only see someone using a home sub if it were in an SUV were there is no trunk to put a sub in.

As for the durability, home subs are manufactured for your home. The air temp in your house typically ranges from 60 - 80 degrees F. A sub in a car can be exposed to temperature ranging anywhere from below freezing to easily over 150 degrees F, depending on your climate.

 

yeah, but that depends on the location of the sub now correct? you can have a pair of "home" subs in an IB setup with them mounted in the attic. now temperature fluctations will vary a lot now wouldn't it?

 

dude...ever felt ANY subwoofer after 5 minutes of playing, yeah its very hot. now of course in hot climates they get hotter faster but voice coils are voice coils. there are not car audio vs home audio voice coils. different types of former materials, coil materials etc are all based upon the build quality of the sub, not to what temperature the subwoofer might be in.

 

The frequency response has more to do with the type/size of the enclosure than it does the driver. Since, we have discussed the Soundsplinter RL-p 12", let's use that for an example. In a car, you can squeeze that sub into a .5cf box. That will probably give you a frequency response with an F3 around 50hz and a Qtc of 1. The high resonant frequency and fast roll-off aren't a problem since the cabin gain of the car will more than make up for it. It's like a natural bass-boost for the low end. You will get great bass down into the teens. Take that enclosure and put it in my living room. The bass disappears!! Is that because the RL-p is a car sub? No. That's because my living room is part of an open floor plan and is over 1,200 sq. ft. There is no room gain in a room of that size. Put the RL-p 12" in a 4 cf ported enclosure tuned to 16hz and it should sound great. Will I get car SPLs? No. And I don't want 140db in my living room. My drywall would pop loose and every one of my wife's knick-knacks would vibrate off of shelves and break.

Over at another forum, Dan Wiggin was discussing power compression in a thread about linear BL technologies. Voice coils heat up well past 200 degrees F in a matter of seconds. That's one reason I like aluminum cone subs. The cone acts like a large heat sink. Really push an Eclipse aluminum, Stryke AV series or any other TC Sounds built sub for a while and feel of the cone. It's hot. Not warm, but hot.

-Robert

 

Thanks for the corrections Robert. There is a lot of info about home audio that i still do not know yet. My main focus is on car audio. But i did have one question, isnt home audio more expensive?

 

Expensive is relative to the person buying the equipment. At 17, I had a Technics 40w/channel receiver, a pair of Sears (Fisher) speakers with a 15" woofer and a Sanyo dual cassette player/recorder. That was expensive then.

You can get a decent music system for a lot less than a car system. A full 5.1 surround sound system will be more because there are more speakers but it is still affordable. A good starter system:
5.1 receiver - $200 (Kenwood had one for $175 a few years ago that was great)
DVD player - $50 (make sure it plays DTS DVD's)
5 speakers - $300 (Fogate Audionics on E-bay)
sub - $150 (Parts Express)

You can go cheaper with a Home Theater in a Box (HTiB) but the quality isn't there on 99% of them. On the other hand, $300 HTiB may be more than adequate if you are just an occaisional movie watcher. My wife and I love movies but hate interacting the with general public that's why we went high end. And if you compare my system to others on sites like AVS, it's low-end.

My theater system:
Panasonic AE900U projector - $2,000
DIY screen - $120
Pioneer VSX1014 receiver - $400
Panasonic RP72 DVD player - $150
DirecTV hi-def Tivo - $350
5 Dayton D8 speakers $500 (still need to build)
2 dB speakers dipole/bipole surrounds $200 (still need to build)
4 TC Sounds 15" infinite baffle subs $300 (got them from SP before he left TC)
Behringer EP2400 amp $300

Living room system
Mitsubishi WS55411 55" HDTV
Kenwood VR3090 receiver
iLo DVD player/recorder
DirecTV standard def Tivo
DirecTV hi-def Tivo (shared with other sytem)
3 Dayton DIII's for left/center/right(need to install the drivers to complete them)
2 Dayton ceiling speakers for surrounds
2 Ascendant Audio Atlas 12's powered by PE plate amps

As you can see, home systems are my hobby. I just dabble in car audio.

-Robert

 

Robert J that is a sick setup that you have in your house. I would love to do that when I graduate and have alot more funds. I'm super jealous of that projector I plan on building a computer just for movies etc with a tv tuner card and projector hooked up to it in my living room.