internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

I was at best buy the other looking for speakers for my brothers car and the salesman said that the RMS of the amp should be as close as possible to that of the Speakers. Is that true?
if that's true then I guess I need to find a couple of amps one running 100 rms and 1 running 60 rms
great, just what I wanted more weight in my car

C3nthusiast

iTrader: (3)

I would choose an amp in the 35w to 75w range for your satellites. Depends on the efficiency of your speakers.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

satellites?
I'm running infinity reference 6.5 (6012i) up front and 6x9 (9613i) in the rear.
the 9613is are 92 db and the 6012is are 92db as well.

filtor1

iTrader: (7)

Sounds like you need a nice 5 channel. What is the 60 watts for? The stock sub? I know Kicker has one that I would use.

filtor1

iTrader: (7)

Just looked it up, the ZX700.4. It would be way overkill for the 1X60, assuming that is for the stock sub. Have you ever thought about adding a nice pair of 10"s to the trunk? If you plan on upgrading, that would be the way I would go.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

the 6x9s are rated 100 watts RMS (1 amp)
and the 6.5s are rated 60 watts RMS (2nd amp)
I have no plans on adding anything more than that to my car. I prefer to take away weight rather than add it

Actually if I can run 1 4 channel amp I'd be even happier (less weight )

Scope

iTrader: (5)

Yeah you can get an 4 channel amp that runs like 100watts rms. Then you can properly set your gains to be best at your optimal listening level (Max level you'll play your music) I am running my stock rear panel speakers (rated at 30watts rms) at 100watts rms but my gain is set low so when I turn the speakers up they don't clip or distort. My fronts are powerbass components that are made to handle 100watts rms and my gain is set properly so that when I turn them up the bass note remains and they don't sound distorted or begin to clip. I also had to do the same thing for my subs. It's not hard to do and you'll have your speakers for a long time and they'll sound good. I can turn my system all the way up and you'll hear no distortion or speaker clipping. You can't just add the amp and expect them to sound good. Tune your amp properly and you're good.

Scope

iTrader: (5)

They get paid for commision I believe so he's saying what's best for his pockets too.

Penguin215

iTrader: (1)

So if an amp isn't powerful enough to the speakers RMS, it'll all still be fine...say 78W to a 100 RMS speaker?

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

Correct. How often do you listen/use your speakers/amp at max capacity?

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

but it's also nice to have some headroom imo...

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

Better to have more power then less. Power can always be tuned with the gains. Your best bet is to find a solid amp thats in the 75 x 4 to 100 x 4 rms range. This way in the future if you ever upgrade there's no limitation to what you get until you get into the super high end equipment. Best buy guys DO NOT wok on commision so they are just there to voice there own personal opinions in most cases.

djfrestyl

iTrader: (89)

I want my new amps.

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

so even severly underpowering it won't be a bad thing (think basic HU ouput 18w rmsx4)
because right now that's how I'm running, POS JVC KD-G210 running the references.

Scope

iTrader: (5)

HU power isn't the best but if you're happy then it works fine. Just don't expect your speakers to last over a year or so if you listen to your music very loud on the often distorted HU power. You can even find a cheap ebay amp and install it. I had a pyramid amp for like three years before I decided to give my speakers the much needed power upgrade (100 watt difference per speaker). Since you're on HU power just don't bump your system and you won't damage anything.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

Severely low power can damage them worse then over powering.

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

it'll be fine. just don't turn your head unit more than 75% of the max volume...pretty general rule of thumb on when HU distortion starts. but only an oscilloscopes can tell you for sure where in the volume range your HU begins to distort. but i'd amp them to really make the speakers reach their potential.

Batxel

iTrader: (1)

if that were the case you better not turn your stereo down or all your speakers will blow!!!!!


do some reasearch and learn how speakers work

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

Power and volume are different. Looks like you're the one that needs to do some research.

This needs to be cleared up a bit. People with amps that are severely underpowering their speakers tend to have to turn the volume way up in order to produce loud volume, but in doing so they end up bringing alot of distortion to the speakers, thats what causes the damage.

Batxel

iTrader: (1)

again

distortion doesn't blow speakers. Speakers don't have brains they don't sit there and say hey this signal is ugly so I will kill myself. I think you are very confused on how speakers and amplifiers work. A clipped signal is normally a square wave and may possibly put out twice the power of the normal signal. So an even higher powered amplifier will just do even more damage and result in a much more powerful 'square' wave.Distortion doesn't cause speaker damage!!!! You can send 20 w rms signal to a 300w rms speaker and not blow it all believe it or not!

You sound like a typical bb or cc employee. Do your research!

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

Okay

internetautomar

iTrader: (30)

hmm....
so basically I should pick up a cheap 100w x4 @ 4ohm RMS amp with about a .02 or lower THD rating.
what about the S/N (signal to noise ratio)? that part I haven't read up on in a long time.
The H/U doesn't put out enough power for me

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

Higher s/n better sound quality.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

I'll agree to diagree. distortion kills a speaker 60% of the time...everytime.

edit: distortion is a warning sign that the speakers can't handle the power they are seeing, being clipped by the amps gain not being set properly to the h/u input voltage, improper EQing,or the volume turned up too high. you can blow a 300 watt speaker with 20 watts but you'd have to be a fool to do that, unless its some overrated fake egay stuff.

ElVito1981

iTrader: (4)

definitely, that's why it's best to buy the most powerful amp you can and match it to speakers that can handle the amp's RMS power rating. And make sure to turn the gain up on that amp all the way. That way, you'll be getting the most out of your amp and will have to turn the volume up on your head unit as little as possible, thus ensuring the least amount of distortion, because as you increase volume, you increase distortion.

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

oh boy...this should get interesting...

anyhow, the gain(s) on the amp should never be turned out all the way. it's there to help match the HU's input voltage. please read this before you do any more harm to your equipment:

http://www.bcae1.com/gaincon2.htm

WhiteMaxima9600

lol, wow never seen this much drama before in here

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

you=newb.

ElVito1981

iTrader: (4)

So if my head unit has an pre-amp output voltage of 8V, and my amp has an input sensitivity of 250 mv to 2.5 V, I'd be damaging my amp, because the head unit puts out more voltage than the amp can take?

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

if you set the sub control to its highest setting which should equal that 8v, then technically yes you can very easily clip it.

ElVito1981

iTrader: (4)

what is sub control?

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

on my pioneer radio it has a sub control from -6 to +6. +6 would theroretically=4v (the preout rating on my radio). depending on the radio, if the sub control is up all the way, you get the preout voltage that is listed for that respective radio.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

NEVER EVER set the amp the highest gain level. If you have to do that then you need a new amp.

Bollwerk

iTrader: (1)

I thought that distortion was a sign that you were overdriving the amp, hence the square/clipped sound wave. Aren't those 2 folks talking about the same thing, more or less? I'm not an expert, just recalling things I've read at various websites quoted in the stickies here.

Batxel

iTrader: (1)

Actually you can't blow 300w speaker with 20w no matter what you do. It's impossible unless the speakers are incorrectly rated. There's a difference between distortion going into a speaker and distortion leaving a speaker. Distortion in itself kills speakers 0% of time whether you like it or not its just fact. However the distortion produced by the speaker itself is an indicator of the speaker being sent too much power.

slickrick

iTrader: (12)

edit: eh, forget it.

AscendantMax

iTrader: (7)

well, if the speaker can reach xmech with 20 watts, it will die an early death.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

talisman311

Jeebus... Yeah I'm a CC employee, don't like it? Suck it. I agree with Nismo, from what I'm gathering, he's saying it's better to have amps that are more then capable of pushing highs, and I agree. Reasoning, people who like loud music tend to overdrive their amps causing them to clip.

WTH is clipping?
Clipping is pushing your amp beyond the unit's power supply. Sound is usually in the form of sin waves, when you get a clipped signal..well it becomes square. The loudest portions of the music don't get any louder, they hit a ceiling cause the amp can't push it any more. It sounds louder because the quieter parts of the music gets louder, this results in no dynamics! Boooo. =( When you send this sort of signal, it's grounds for disaster..voice coils start over-heating and this is when they start failing.

So, with that said. If you have a amp with more power, it's less likely send a clipped signal (very bad). Oh, and you can set gains by using test tones available around the net, somebody posted links to some awhile back. To set them just make sure the tones are normalized and turn everything down. There is a very distinct sound between a clipped/unclipped test tone, turn everything up right before it starts to clip and adjust everything accordingly from the source unit to finally the amp.

Elvito, you can have 8v pre-outs going to an amp w/ a lesser rating. Just set the amp on the lowest sensitivity... 2.5v is the lowest.. that sounds like a cheap amp imho. But anyway, it's not often you're going to be turning your deck up that much, unless you're one of those weirdos that like being in pain.

nismos14

iTrader: (56)

Arc amps are only rated to 2.5v but they are fully capable of handing up to and beyond the 8v from the eclipse.