rezadue

I have the opportunity to pick up a set of H&R springs and KYB GR2s for a fairly cheap price. I am not planning on track using this car, and don't want a super stiff ride, but would like a suspension setup with less lean and a bit more sporty feel. I am wondering:

1) What do people think of this setup given my requierments?
2) How stiff is this setup likely to be?
3) Isn't the GR2 just a replacement equivalent of the stock struts?
4) How much of a drop is this setup going to give me?


Thanks,
Reza

BEJAY1

iTrader: (19)

The H&R's are still farily soft and cushy. They might help a little but you'll still get a fair amount of lean. And not stiff at all vs stock.

I just moved from Eibachs & Koni's to Cattman CO's and now I consider even the Eibachs mushy.

RastaManMax

iTrader: (5)

Most lowering springs are mushy when you take them to the limits. Coilovers are the way to go for sure. GR2's ride equivalent to ~ AGX on 2F/4R from what i've heard, but not as durable. That being said they are stiffer than OEM. I would personally go the AGX/Illumina/Koni with a GC coilover setup. I'm looking for the same type of ride as you, but when i get the money i plan on autoX as well, so i think the GC/AGX will be good for me as i am on a budget.

LEMAR

rezadue

Rastaman,

As I understand it, the GC coilovers are pretty stiff. You may want to research it more before you commit.

MAXimumHP

iTrader: (7)

I have H&R's with AGX,s now, but used to have GR-2's on my old Maxima with the same springs. You will notice a big difference with the springs in lean and handling. More aggressive springs will make a bigger difference, but even the H&R's transform the car. I'm very happy with mine. To get rid of lean I highly suggest an anti-sway bar. I noticed a big difference between bar vs. no bar after I had the springs on. The bars are farily cheap too. With the H&R's, GR-2's and a sway bar the ride will be only slightly stiffer than stock. I think it's better because you can feel the road more. I feel the GR-2's are great matches for the H&R's too.

Blaxima911

GC CO's are stiff. Very stiff. If you don't want to track your car, don't bother.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

what are the spring rates some of you with GCs run ? I hope ya know when U order up a set from GC U can speciffy what springs you want with your setup- Rice or Race.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

But how many people can INTELLIGENTLY specify spring rates when ordering something like that?

I would guess that maybe two or three on the entire .org have that kind of knowledge.

BlackBIRDVQ

iTrader: (15)

we found out that on B13 and B14 its a pretty good combo on a track and street to run 300/200lb springs Frt/Rear. Basically I went off that same formula on my A33A but since its quite a bit heavier I went up to 500lb front and 400 rear and find it pretty comfortable, only at times does it get choppy. Koni fronts with AGX rear shocks work pretty good vs Koni all around. I wish they made AGX for the front of my ride so I can try em out. AGXs with GCs on B13s rock.

Norm Peterson

Its an engineering evaluation, but not a particularly involved or difficult one. IOW, it doesn't require an engineering or science degree or PE registration to follow, though an aptitude for math will definitely help.

Simplified, for street driving you want the spring rates (wheel rates, actually) to basically give you a flat ride at typical highway speeds. Among other references, this procedure is outlined in Fred Puhn's book "How To Make Your Car Handle" (softcover, under $20), as are some estimates of ride frequency to use as guidelines. You can tune from there to affect the handling balance somewhat, but that part can get a lot more involved if you're into estimating just how much you're changing that.

Norm

Hornswoggler

LOL!

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

I completely agree with you on the fact that it's not HARD... but how many people actually have suspension setup/tuning books laying around their desk? I need to pick some literature up for myself, but 99% of the people on these boards have no clue how to determine frequencies and spring rates... should they know this stuff when ordering? yeah... do they? usually no. "Well my buddy used 450/350 on his 2500lb car and I liked it, so we used a 575/450 on my 3200lb car" works? usually. correct and proper? hardly.

BEJAY1

iTrader: (19)

We'll I've got text's incl Puhn's book and others that I've never really utilized completely. Wheel rate leads to natural freq which leads to figuring out the motion ratio. Without scanning pages this site describes the basics pretty well.
http://www.datrats.com.au/SUSPENSION.html

Nobody I've talked to has done (shared) Maxima measurements to date incl Chafin & Catts. I haven't wanted to pay labor for a shop with scales to remove springs, measure, weigh, etc. But taking spring rates from Tein, JIC, Cattman, etc. provides excellent starting points. Of course that doesn't touch shock valving rates at all. Here's what I've found for a few of the stock coilover spring rates.
Cattman G3's - 400lb/350lb
Tein - 391lb/335lb
JIC FLT-A2 - 9kg/6kg
JIC SF1 - 8kg/6kg

Norm Peterson

Be a little careful interpreting what is posted there. To transfer between spring rate and wheel rate, you need to use [Motion Ratio]^2 for your factor. And strictly speaking, the overall motion ratio also includes the cosine of the angle that the spring makes with a line drawn perpendicular to the loaded control arm and another small MR component due to the wheel center being outboard of the loaded balljoint. These last two are perhaps 3-5 percent-ish corrections, but you still have to square them.

I'm not sure if its easier to determine MR by directly measuring and/or computing the various components or indirectly from loads and displacements or frequencies . . .

Norm

Regime

iTrader: (2)

I think there is one thing that people are forgetting to say, "how comfortable" a particular setup will be, is a completely subjective thing.
I used to think my Eibachs were too stiff, then I got my first SE-R with a GC/AGX setup 350/200 i believe which felt much stiffer. Now I have my second SE-R that has Ground Control Advance Designs (True Coilovers) with 450/550 Front/Rear. Now mind you, if I don't switch over to my super tall 195/75/14's before I drive home from the races I'll end up eating peices of my teeth. But this setup has given me a whole new perspective on "how comfortable" my eibach/agx setup on the maxima, I now actually feel my max's setup might be too soft. It's all a matter of perspective.

Norm Peterson

Subjective? Absolutely. But you can find some guidance from the frequencies, which you can calculate. IMO, 1.0 to 1.25 Hz is pretty soft, 1.5 is getting into sports car territory, and beyond 2.0 is too hard-core for most daily driving.

When you put your tall-sidewall tires on, one of the things that you've accomplished is to have added a softer spring in series with those stiff springs. This lowers the overall rate between the chassis and the ground (and the associated frequency) which is what your butt 'sees'.

Norm

sanjosemaxima

iTrader: (3)

Are GC really that stiff around town? I dont even notice, accept on a few potholes and bumps...

Regime

iTrader: (2)

The regular GC's are not too bad, I actually just installed a set on XeroX's car about 3 weeks ago and it rode very nicely, actually got me thinking about trading up from my Eibachs to them on my Maxima.
The GC Advance design coilovers (These are a true coilover system not just the spring and collar system that most people think of when talking about GC's) are what I was saying were super stiff, I have those on my one of my SE-Rs. Those are cutom spring rates anyway.

Nissan SE-R

Just to make sure we're all talking about the same thing, the GC set up is basically the threaded sleeve and collar. As was mentioned before, there are a *lot* of spring rates available. I would think that after doing a few calculations, you'd want to get several different spring rates and try them out. Springs for a GC coilover are not *that* expensive.

Also remember that the suspension is not just springs...(you knew that). So, there are many, many factors that will make the car handle completely differently even with the exact same parts! Remember that you can have camber/caster plates, ride height, dampning, damper revalving, adjustable sway bars, tire pressures, Etc. just to name a few adjustments. Try to think ahead to what you will be using the car for most often.

And if the driver sucks, none of the above will help you

Regime

iTrader: (2)

Yes, that is what I was talking about previously.
At this point though, I personally would go with true coilovers on any car. With the current line up that is out there, you would not save much money at all going with a strut/spring combo. just save for a couple extra weeks and get them.

You nailed it on the head with everything else. Though I would personally hate to have to switch out springs all the time :

Hey, SE-R, what year SE-R do you have? I have 3 b13's one is in the middle of a turbo conversion, the other in my track car for now. (The third it is a parts car)

Nissan SE-R

I have a '96 chassis with a '97 engine in it so, no more SA '96 syndrome. A few pics of it here

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4bddh/id1.html