DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I don't think wider tires would fit under those low fenders.

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

DrKlop is correct. 240 owners are obsessed with "flushness" of the rim and the finder. They will do anything to fit the largest and widest wheel possible, even it it means super-stretching the tires so it clears the fender. People also go as far as rolling the fender or even pulling the fender to obtain maximum width/offset.

Yes, stock 240SX are very slow. Since the car has 155hp stock, and it weights from 2700-2900 lbs depending on year, it is relatively underpowered and there are many more cars that are faster than the 240SX in Auto-X, and even road racing.

Once a 240 has a nice set of suspension modifications such as sway bars, coilovers, and camber/caster/toe adjusting arms, it becomes much more "alive" and handles like it should have been from the factory.

Overall, it's just a very fun car to drive, but compared to many cars such as a Miata or high hp/high tq cars, it doesn't compare (stock that is).

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Agreed. Looks fawking stupid if you ask me.

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

Are you telling me that even a slow-a$$ Miata could beat one? My lack of respect for Miatas has only grown over the years.
When those things first came out I had a 1st gen RX-7 with only minimal intake and exhaust mods, and I NEVER lost ANY race to a Miata. That was great, I had a $1000 car that a $12-16K car couldn't touch. I wish I still had it but my stupid-a$$ got rid of it when I got the max. I would have still got the max, but it would have been fun to see which car I could on any given day I could do better with. The max has obvious limitations, but on a longer faster course it might have been close.
Irish, would you ever take you Triumph to an auto-x?

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

Miatas are definately VERY fast. I have a friend who attends nearly 3 track events per month (36/year) on road courses. He used to have an S13 240SX hatchback with all the goodies (stock engine). He sold it and got a stock Miata. From his timer at ButtonWillow, he got a faster time on the stock Miata over the modified 240SX.

They are definately very good cars, I don't know where you're coming from calling them "slow-a$$." My friend just bought a Miata for around $3000...where are you getting $12-$16??


irish, original poster, sorry to go so off topic!

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

A few 240s run with CDC (one of them is turboed), and they don't do all that well, simply because the guys can't keep the back of the car in line....its like an unintentional drift-fest...

I have autocrossed the triumph before (early 90s) but the weight distro on that car is TERRIBLE for tight courses....it has a heavy iron-block inline-6 up front, and the center of balance is right on top of the front axle line. The rear has virtually no weight at all except the diff and fuel tank and is hard as hell to keep in line (my dad calls that car the "hockey puck" because it's all over the place in the rain). I used to run events with a full tank of gas and the full-size spare back there just to try to keep traction.

What I plan to do with it is to relocate the engine 4" back by reversing the strut towers...it's been done and really changes the weight distro - amazing how much 4" can do. Also might get a fiberglass hood (the oem hood is super-heavy, since it is quite long and includes the fenders) for race days...relocate the battery to the rear, and do some other mods. Once I have a house with a garage and get the Triumphs up here, I won't even think about modding the maxima any more....classic cars are much more fun.

...but that is a few years and alot of $$ down the road...

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

btw, if you want to see the small Brit cars run autocross, come to a CDC event. CDC is sponsored by Capital Triumph/MG register, and there are usually a couple TR6s, a couple MGBs, a couple Spitfires, and several other British Leyland cars. There is one GT6 in the club, but I've never been at the events that he's run at.

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

I am increasingly dissappointed in the 240's, they apparently can't handle and they aren't fast either.
I never said they were "bad" cars, but even though I have ridden in a few, to me they are annoying. Auto-x'ing my max they always me, but on a real road course I still blow by them every straight, only to have them on my a$$ half way through the twisty section of the course. But, for me to let them pass..I have to slow down to 60 MOTHER-F'ING-MILES AN HOUR on a straight where I can go over 100.
That is where I coming from, here are their 0-60 times.
0-60 times for Miatas (none I would consider VERY fast, or fast for that matter)
1990 Mazda Miata 9.4 16.9
1991 Mazda Miata 9.1 16.7
1994 Mazda Miata 9.7 17.0
1996 Mazda Miata 8.7 16.6
1999 Mazda Miata 7.9 15.9 (oohh getting close to autotragic max, so fast!)

Most 1st gen RX-7's do mid 8's with no mods, you can find some slower 79's that are listed as 9.2.

I was racing these guys in their NEW Miatas (new Miata=$15k) where as I bought my 80 RX7 w/82 motor for $500, put maybe $300 into it (which includes replacing the bent rear axle) and as I said before, I NEVER lost to any of them. I was 16 when I got that car, so I raced EVERYBODY. The sad part is I could still go get a 79-85 RX-7 for ~$1000, get the carbs tuned, open up the exhaust and intake and STILL beat a new Miata (MX-5..whatever, just trying to disguise the gayness).

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

When do you think you will have pictures up of your car with the new rims on?

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

Well, when I mentioned Miata cars as being fast, I didn't mean in the straight line. They are very nice momentum cars on road courses if driven correctly. How can you beat 50/50 weight distro + ~2300lb car? It just doesn't get any better than that.

edit: And how are you going to complain about slowing down for a momentum car? That's just the nature of types of cars. What I learned in driving school was to let the lower powered car pass you in the straight if he is on your *** during the turns, and that is an act of courtesy. It also serves so you won't be annoyed either. If you let him pass once he would be out of your hair for the rest of the session. I dunno if you're racing them or anything, but in any driving schools, that's how it should be done.

I was in this same exact situation two weeks ago at a road course. As a 240SX owner, I could not beat a slightly modified Integra (dunno if it was GSR) but I was always tailing so closely to him during any type of turn. There is a sharper than 90 degree turn that leads to a 1/4 mile + straight, and even if I took that turn correctly, I couldn't pass him because a) I would bump him from behind if I acceleratred out of the turn @ WOT and b) he was blocking me, and c) he had noticably a bit more horsepower than me.

This is annoying looking at it from the other perspective. I followed him for 8 straight laps, and he wouldn't let me pass once. I even tried to back off to 40-60mph on the straight, then get start up on the track again. Much before the turn leading before the main straight, I was back right behind him. As you can see, even if he just backed off a little during one straightaway it would have solved all of the problem.

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

you mean a 79-85 RX-7?

I'm going to complain because when I would come back around to the straights I would be held up 3/4 of the way down the longest straights, which was annoying.
To be honest, if I had either R-compound tires or STS tires, or a not stock suspension, or rsb, it wouldn't have mattered, they would not have caught me in either section.
Because while they certainly could eat my lunch in the twisty part, even the modded Miatas do not pull like a vq out of a turn. So my scenario was that I was running all-season tires, and essentially bone stock, they were modded. If I was modded just a little, I would have been fine, I'm still pissed a lightly modded SE-R passed me on banked turn banging off the rev limiter going 110. So I know that in this case it's not a clear situation as to what is the courteous thing.
A little more than halfway through the twisties is when the Miatas (multiple sessions) would be on my a$$, so I just had to be little faster and then there wouldn't have been a problem.

I like 240's, but can you even make a 240 faster and handle better than a Miata with minimal mods? i.e. does the end justify the means?

TurDz

iTrader: (3)

Like I said before, no, I don't think you can modify a 240 to be faster than a Miata...that is, until you start adding more power (turbocharging, SR20DET, RB engines).

It's weird because I feel like my car is stuck in the middle in terms of "character." It's neither a momentum car nor a straight-away monster...I think a lot has to do with the 155hp engine that came on the US S13/S14 models

On the same argument as adding some modifications to your car to be faster, I could also have done the same. I have been driving my car in stock form (except for tires and brake pads) for 2 years. If I had stiffer suspension or nicely set up sway bars, I'm sure I could have been even faster in the turns than the Integra I was mentioning, but I still wouldn't get him on the straight if he tried to block me. I am a novice road course driver, so I am continually trying to develop skills to learn how to pass. But it's almost impossible in an underpowered car such as mine.

I could add power...but what's the fun in that (not to mention $). In your case of having normal street tires and stock suspension, I have to say that you have to just suck it up. Yeah, you I know you could have been faster, but in your particular situations with the smaller momentum cars, you should still let them pass. (then come back at another event with better mods, if you desire )

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

well, I need to get some tires on them first

how's this:

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

You aren't as much a post ***** as you are a smarta$$.

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

Well, if that's your take on it fine. My instructor was interested to see how fast I could get it going on the straights and was also somewhat annoyed at the grouping they sent us out in, be that as it may, I let one pass, (he was pretty modded) the rest were just barely getting to me before the big straight. My instructor was hesitant to let those Miatas pass. Now, the R32's and SC'ed Mustang on R-compounds, modded VR4 and Subies, well there wasn't as much of a problem there, most just flew by me.

btw, I got it up to 125 on the south course of pocono before the turn into the infield.

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

yeah, I get told that alot

(btw, I didn't go out an take that pic to give you a hard time....it was when I test-fitted the wheels last week). I think I'll order some tires this week (shaved) so with any luck, I'll have a shot of them on the car next month when it warms up a bit. I'd let you borrow them at events, but then you'd probably beat me straight-up without the index

Still kinda hoping we get a big snowfall so I can do the "snow-cross" out at Ripken on the Blizzaks

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

I figured, but it was still funny and a smarta$$ thing to do.

I think I got the official dates up, 1/28 I don't think that's going to work for the snow, maybe 2/18.

North

Little bit of 240 school from a recent owner:
1. The 5zigens on the 240 posted are 10inches wide, if 17s and if 18s i'm not sure but the max owners wheels will never look "just like that"
2. 240s are incredibly balanced cars, can they hang with miatas, well no but what can?
3. If you and/or (especially) other 240 drivers can't keep the rear end strait on the street OR at an auto-x you/they can't drive a RWD car. I auto-xed my 240 for 3 years 2 in STS and 1 in SM with a Turbo'ed KA (232whp, 284ft/lbs). And i had no trouble at either power level keeping it in line. Granted if i wanted to slide it out i could but it was by no means on accident.

I just wanted to post my $.02 from a 240driver, sadley it was totalled 3 weeks ago, thus leading me to this board as i search for a maxima, untill i can afford another "toy" car

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

R...X...7!!!!!!!!

North

Sorry i should have said, what can without blowing up every other month / max every 60k n:

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

Seriously, I had an RX7 from the time I was 16 until I was 26, same engine, my brother wrecked a body, so I just took the engine out and had my mechanic stick it into another shell.
People that blow those up are doing regularly are doing 2 things
1. not changing, or checking the oil. Since a wankel actually burns oil in the engine, this is very, very important
2. perpetually redlining the engine, the engine itself won't blow, the rotary actually doesn't care, but you essentially blow up other things that cause your engine to blow up.

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

Ok hotshot, I know you got the tires on them. Have you taken them out and can you feel a big difference? And of course how do they look?

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

Yeah, I put them on the car for a few hours today...did about 30 minutes on the highway and then hit the winding, woodsy roads around here for another hour or so, taking the corners hard. Not a squeal from the tires, but they did roll over just a little bit since I didn't think to stop and up the air pressure (I checked and they were at 33-35 lbs hot). Grip was outstanding, but now they're back in the basement recovering until March

Looks...eh...they're ok. I didn't buy them for looks so much, but my impressions:
1. they'd look better on a lighter-colored car
2. they look very small. They look like 16s....alot smaller than my winter 17's...maybe just because of the small spokes.
3. they definitely wouldn't be my pick for a daily driver - not the look I really want when on the street.

here's some pics:
top pic is my street 18s with Proxes 4
middle is the 5zigens
bottom is my winter 17's with Blizzak LM22s

97SEdriver

iTrader: (3)

BTW, Irish I posted this here before you linked to that thread in the garage post in the DC forum