SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Well just got back from the dynojet thats 20 min from my house. Really like the guy and the shop. I foresee me going there quite a bit!


It was the first time ive ever been to a dyno and it was fun!


He actually let me drive the car! I was nervous (seeing horror dyno runs on youtube puts a imagine in the back of your head) but he told me exactly what to do and it was FUN!!!!!!!! I could do that all day!













Done 5 runs

Here is run 1




This was with no changes.


Here is run 5



This was with base timing at 0, and cipher injector test at 125 (max) also i removed the panel airfilter.



Here is 1 and 5





Here are the run files for all 5
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzm...1ZDQw&hl=en_US
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzm...xODQy&hl=en_US
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzm...2MjYw&hl=en_US
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzm...lNzFh&hl=en_US
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzm...kYjll&hl=en_US



Here is a cipher log, i was able only to log run 1
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzm...wMWI3&hl=en_US



You can see a badd dip around 5,000 rpm and TQ is just crap. So something is not right. AFR really dont seem to be that bad.

Im thinking its cam stuff, im not really sure.




Thoughts??? im no dyno graph expert.




EDIT: fixed the graphs you can now actually see them!!! Also changed to SAE correction so max hp is 245

MoncefA33

iTrader: (6)

Peak #s look good but like you said the tq #s aren't great - maybe cam timing isn't getting advanced enough? I'm sure you can verify that the sensors are wired/working properly - if they are you could hook up a v-Manage and play with cam timing to get more out of the midrange.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Also all runs but 3 was done in 4th gear. 3 was in 3rd.

That is with the sentra trans was this the right gear??? i didnt even think about it maybe i shoulda done 5th?


3rd 1.392
4th 1.055
5th .809

old FD 3.812

New FD 4.133


4th is closest to 1 but with the FD change is it still?


Edit: this is with the dual vias working on the single 5.5 vias switch.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

Lets see a couple things I wanna say but I can't articulate them well enough to construct a paragraph so I'll just drop random statements in random order.

The tranny doesn't matter the Sentra = Maxima = Cube = Versa... Same gears different FD.

You always dyno in the gear closest to 1.0, even though the FD is shorter, 4th will always be the closest to 1.0.

Also the Sentras still dyno in 4th over there on B15 forums and Allsentra.

Holy flat TQ lines batman, this is what I want out of my VQ35 one day, I'd love not loosing 40+ft/lbs from peak to shift.

As for the dip??? got me, this is why I want to avoid using varibles with my setups.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

oh ok so 4th it is!

And hmmm your right on the TQ line i didnt even notice really. But overall it is a low tq #.



yeah i can see why u dont want to mess with variable but once its right itll be well worth it.



Thanks for pointing that out. Im not to up on this stuff i just know i was kinda disappointed in the overall numbers, but i know its more than peak numbers!



The exhaust cam actuator is not hooked up at all so im assuming its staying at 0 but it might not be idk. That could be killing me right now.

HotshotVQ35

iTrader: (5)

need manny to chime in, now this is 100% stock right? oem manifolds and exhaust? just watched the vid sounds like there is an exhaust...

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

not stock stock but stock as in no real tuning


and stock motor

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Mods:

2009 Maxima VQ35
75 mm tb
Plastic IM
Dual vias (hooked up to 02 ecu) as one
52mm intake ports
10.6:1 compression
09 stock cams
ARP rodbolts
Cattman GenIII Headers
Cattman 3” catback
Stock 02 ecu
Removed stock oil warmer
Stock airbox, k&n panel filter

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

I can dig it. You keep fooling with it, maybe one day I'll see the light, till then, no variable nuffin'.

Low numbers smumbers, you can always go up in numbers but getting Honda curves is pretty hard to do with these motors... Now if you can make the good ol Nissan TQ with it then it'll be something nasty!!!

FYI Right now you're looking like header'd+intake 6mt 04+ Acura TL (non type s).

With the sentra gearing lets say you're still going to 6600 like you are now, youre power band is 5k-6.6k, making use of most of your TQ and all of your HP, something that very few VQ's do at the same time in the powerband, which is something that's been bothering me and pretty much the main reason for the delay in my swap, I don't want to get a 3.5 and have teh same problem I'm having with the 3.0 right now, knowhaimeanmangggg?

ajcool2

iTrader: (43)

Looks like its making HR TQ just as I expected it would.

MIKERNM1990

dyno # isnt bad! and you can remove dual via for gain power from custom via from owner on 7 gen forum?

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Yeah i think the curve is good but the # isent


I can remove the dual vias but right now im liking the lower end tq! Ive got a lot of tune and testing ahead of me!



i need to figure out whats up with the big dip, i want to get it better b4 even tuning. Im just not sure what to do right now.

DrunkieTheBear

iTrader: (17)

Its a dual VIAS, the dip could be the result of both of them opening? Just a thought.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

The valves are both working off the 02 ecu. So they both are working at 1800 to 3600 rpm.


I need to check and see if they are closing at 1800 and opening at 3600. Maybe its backwards or something. I remember seeing them close at low rpms but never really thought about them opening at 3600 tho. Possibly they are staying closed!


Ill find out that easily tom. Maybe even logg the vias switch. But looking at the graphs i see that around 36000 the TQ is on a downhill then picks back up some untill 5100 ish then picks back up again.



Idk id like to get it sorted out b4 tuning. I dont beleive this is a tuning issue.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

HR's don't hold torque well... They're like every other VQ35 in the terms of TQ (HP Completely different, bish is on a rocket to the moon). Unless you're referring to the VHR, they hold tq due to the awesome VVEL

schmellyfart

iTrader: (46)

That's what I'm thinking.

He said that both are hooked up together and acting as one. I'm thinking that the two vias' are supposed to open independently at different times. One for low end, i.e. older vq35s, and one for top end, i.e. de-ks..

Keep in mind I'm pulling this out of my **** as I have no idea when the vias' open up on the 7th gen, let alone if they operate independently.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

They do work independent from each other. but the FSM dont really state what they are doing clearly. Just says when revving to 5000 rpm quickly


Maybe it is vias because the dip is right at 5000 ????


Im going over run 1 and my cipher log right now. trying to see if i can tell what happens at 5k.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Been looking at my logg, only thing i really notice is between 5000 and 5500 rpm the MAF volts kinda linger while at all other points you can notice a quick increase.


It kinda bounces between 4.4 and 4.5 between thos 500 rpm.



Intake cam timing seems to be good? Goes from 28 ish in low rpm around 4500 it starts to taper off, then by 5500 600 its at 0. Thats how its supposed to be i beleive

036mtmax

iTrader: (11)

I called it at 250 guess it was a lucky guess lol

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Gaaaaahhhhh. Toomuch info to get to from my phone. Ill chime in tomorrow. Did you log cam timing from the intake cams?

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

haha so it was you who doomed my runs!!!! haha jk


been waiting on you mannnn


Yes but i only logged the first run. was a lot going on i was not planning to be in the car.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Ive been driving it for quite a while now and i can def feel that dip in power! Now that im thinking about it.


When taking off its good then around 5k it slows down then picks up really fast and pulls hard. I kinda thought something was up but didn't know it was gonna look like that!

MaximaSpd85

iTrader: (14)

Is this the shop i gave u the number to? What did u pay? I assume an hours worth? Im thinking about going within the week...

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

^ yep sure is! ill pm u

ranmas2004

iTrader: (2)

Wow....250!! with only headers and 3" exhaust?? AND NO TUNE either!!! That thing is going to be nuts when you really get into modding it. You were right about that engine man....just need to find someone that can do the swap locally.....perhaps as time goes on people will start experimenting with the swap more, but there really isn't alot of support for the 5.5 gen max......only made 2 years. I would like to get this swap done if I could find someone around here to do it.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Ok, on another note, it was just my brain overloading since my phone monitor is tiny.

I think all the key points have been covered.


1.) Cam timing, yes this would benefit, but that's why this is a baseline and that's why the almighty invented V-Manage.

2.) I agree that, typically, 1:1 is the best ratio, and I also think 4th is good BUT, 1:1 shouldn't be the RULE. A34 5AT's have a really numerically low FD (so, in our terms, "high" geared) BUT, if tehy used the gear closes to 1:1 it would be like 5th, no thank you. SteVTEC taught me that lesson when he was my dyno mentor . General ruls is that you want to but a decent amount of load on the engine, but not so much taht you're hitting 175 on the dyno (if our ECU's would allow it).

But yes, whatever gear gets to 120-130.





Also, Darren, seriously, every time I dyno I say Imma log this, that, the other using Cipher and my WB software. I end up doing none of that, so I can totally relate.


By the way, awesome numbers and HUGE potential (I'm assuming a JWT POP will net a very large gain by itself just because of the dynamics of everything.) This is going to be fun.

Now excuse me while I analyze these things and the cipher run.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATED



I have photobucket still shots of mine, not actual data files (at work here) so all I’m doing at the moment is putting yours on my scale and vice versa, not that I’m comparing, just looking for some sort of rhyme or reason..


Ok, notice the timing looks to take a fairly sharp blow @ the RPM range in question(5 k-ish). Everything sorta takes a “blow” at that RPM (IGN & AFL), I’ll have to take a closer look at the AFR data to see if I can see any correlation.

Check out my timing curve, and then yours. Also check the scale on mine vs yours. When using my scale on your graph, you cannot even see but maybe 2 points My scale [MIN:MAX= 22-33, yours 15-25.]

Here’s my IGN timing and yours.




Perhaps losing more power than we thought.

I also have timing logs from an A34 at home too (No MAF conditioning or TS ECU, like me) for comparison as to where you should sorta (A34 = different “tuning” we can assume) be.


Air flow data is awesome, peaks out @ 6500




This is my CVTC (TS/Z33) vs the A34.



Here’s yours. As you can see, yours is about on par with the A33/34 stock curve. Be nice to see an A35 of both I&E to see what those curves look like. I’m guessing there are HR curves out there for us to find too.



Now to take a look at the DRF’s,

More to come,

mightyMax95

iTrader: (5)

I think you need some window switches for your VIAS. This sounds a lot like an improperly timed VIAS activation similar to what the early 00vi guys used to experience.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Haha i wasent too thrilled about 250 to be honest! But i guess its better than i realize?


From what little dyno stuff i know, this motor seems to no fall on its face in the high rpm, even with stock 02 ecu.


Also i thought it would be running rich but in fact its lean. (on the dyno i enriched it up with cipher inj testing)



This is going to be a lot of testing and a lot of fun! My goal is to get as close to 300 whp as possible on stock cams! So i got 50 hp to go! haaha


I kinda think it might be possible!

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

I think it might be a combination of a lot of different things. Im still undecided if i want working vias or just block em off, i do like the low end tq!

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Thanks for the reply!! its what i been waiting on! ahah


So do you think my motor is running good? IE no tune and such? With the Tq so low it jsut seems something is not right.


Right now this is what im most interested in, if something is wrong or off, i want to get it corrected asap.



Far as cam timing it will be in w/e tuning i end up with, i will not have a separate unit just for it. So either osiris/haltech/vipec is in my list.


OK so i done in 4th gear which was 110 mph at redline. Little lower than 120-130 like you said. Would 5th gear be stupid?




Thanks, With a intake im pretty sure ill have to add fuel. IT already needs fuel on the stock intake. So until i can tune im not messing with it. But my intake plans are either 3.5/ 4" piping, cone filter, LR MAF, possible v stack. idk






OK now the 2ed part:


Yess at 5k timing seems to drop at its lowest point. That seems stupid, ok now i kinda see it, even looking at my ign timing graph it looks almost just like my dyno graph hahaha



So the MAF GM/s is how much air is coming through. (im wondering how much to adjust K when i got LRMAF) Looks like its steady increasing, i guess due to the 09 motor. The graph probably peaks out on the older motors then does the infamous fall on its face?



Here is the thing on cam timing, im running stock 02 ecu. But as you know all the cam issues ive had. So does my cam timing match a 02 ecu??? if so wow it looks kidna crappy!



Noob ? are you making these nice graphs in excel with the log files????




Thanks for the info man!!!!


If it can be determined there is not a problem with somethign, that its based on the stock 02 ecu and the 09 motor being so different.


It might be possible that a intake , and tuning will do wonders! I'm thinking itll need some serious fuel adjustments!



Might have to pick up some injectors, i seen that Joe and Justin at 2JRacing beleive stock FWD injectors dont support high hp well. Possibly ill get some 440's or something. Might need to upgrade the pump also. its stock with 192k miles....




NOW THE real fun begins!!!

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

oh also. on the correction factors. The dyno shop was using STD. You seem to use SAE.

Which is really the best? SAE puts my highest hp run at 244 and lowest at 234.


The main difference between the 2 was air temp 69 vs 77 i beleive.


I just want to pick one and stay with it.

aackshun

iTrader: (3)

He uses SAE because it puts every single dyno on the dynojet the same level playing field, SAE'd I'm like @ 185/205 instead of 190/210... But 190/210 just sounds soooo much cooler

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Thats kinda what i thought. So SAE is what it is! I might have to use STD just for thos PEAK numbers!!! hahahaahah

MoncefA33

iTrader: (6)

The 09 motor has dual VTCs doesn't it? And you're only adjusting them on the intake side with the 02 ECU.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Yes, CVTC on I & E. Seeing as the E cams are just spinning, not adjusting the solenoid whatsoever.... Or, man I lost track on that cam fiasco, are they both (I&E) being driven by the I signal from the 02 ECU?
SAE seems to even the "field" if there is one. I am the only one in the free world that puts down very slightly higher peak in SAE, I blame it on low RH here. That's why I love DRF's, I put like 260+ using that JIS STD. But yeah, SAE FTW IMO.


I think it's running fine and adding some timing will definitely help the torque output, IMO. Hmmm, I need to play with this Injector test to see if I can alter my AFR too. I think I'll PM you on that. Cam timing looks typical of a FWD too, well A33 and A34 anyway.

Yep, excel logging like a bos$ y0.

Usually peak torque is where you want your timing minimal.

Nnononono 4th is perfect.


The number will be scaled down quite a bit since there would be theoretically less air moving across the MAF as we all know. But the curve itself should look the same. This is how I verified that the Cattman 3" actually gave ms eome gains because i saw more airflow. Now with the LRMAF, it's gone down a lot compared to the 3". Theoretically this depicts how efficiently (Sorta VE-like [volumetric efficiency]) the engine is using the air it's provided. Doesn't necessarily represent the HP curve, but it should/can.


I have Z33's, but 390's or 440's should be your goal, IMO.


Do you have a test pipe and if NOT, did they use the usual tailsniffer for AFR?

Imma put my stock airbox just b/c of that vid you psoted, has a cool sound.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

Yes


The 02 ecu is only controlling IVT.



I THINK this might my tq problem, i dont have EVT hooked up at all. So for all i know its everywhere. Im not sure if it stays at 0 when not hooked up or not. Its not like IVT oil pressure switch its actually a magnet.




Here is my plan. Get it running on 350z rev up ecu. Make minor adjustments go back to dyno. That is if its running right, and there is not a problem

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Also ... just sayin, BUT, I dyno'd 210 with a stock airbox and headers only. I then dyno'd 233 w/ a JWT and +2º base timing (as Cipher let's me do), no other changes at all.

INS, IJS.

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

EVT is not hooked up to anything. So it might be floating around IDK. Only thing that would make sence to me. Otherwise where is my TQ!!!






OK so SAE it is!!! unlessssss hahaah gotta get my peak numbers somehow!






So you think its running fine, good to know!!! So possibly tuning will wake the beast up?




yeah the cipher injector test is kinda cool. i put it on 110% and 125% for run 5. it works but soon as you close it out its done. Dont save like timing advance or idle changes.

Oh ok ima have to mess with excel and make those nice graphs like you have there! Im wanting to keep good records of my logs and runs


Peak tq timing minimal? hmm im no tuner. But on my runs peak tq is close to redline. So dont timing in 5k range need major adjustment?


ok ill only dyno in 4th! thx





Hmm ok hahah


FWD 315 cc
RWD 335 cc

Thats older ones.


Anyone know what RWD HR flow? and FWD 09 Maxima??? How can i find out?? By the way its running im thinking 09 max are still 315 cc idk.


Hmm ok so i could get 390s that might better suit me. i might get 440's. I def see me getting one of the 2 and id also like to upgrade my fuel pump!



I tried to install the test pipe but it leaked like hell, so i put the fast cat back on.


They done the tailsniffer for afr.



HAHA i didnt notice the stock air box sound haha i want a huge intake and lrmaf sound!!!



Thanks for your input!

SurraTT

iTrader: (59)

WOW what???


So with a stock airbox and headers you was at 210?? thats close to me except for the 3"

Before i added any fuel i got 234 (SAE)

Then you added a pop charger and +2 timing and got 233. so that was 23 hp for those 2 things??


Sounds like my airbox is KILLING ME??? EDIT rememberd your car is auto so thats probably a big factor also



But ok this makes me feel better about my numbers.



Still whats up with TQ

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Well, I dunno, but just telling you my personal observations.

I know SR20DEN and 6Spd_Hayes both dynoed with a ported air box (~250)and stock airbox(non-ported) (247).

I just think the 3" + headers really make an intake a good thing, sort of compounding the effect.

I say torque is probably a combination of timing and EVT/IVT.