"Avoid expensive premium gas..."
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"Avoid expensive premium gas..."
"because it sits in the tank longer because fewer people buy it."
(Don't shoot the messenger!)
Injector flaws impede drivers, stump experts
Rash of costly repairs has some experts suspecting tainted gas
www.jsonline.com/news/gen/oct04/268069.asp
Mechanics, while not all in agreement, suggest a number of ways to help protect your vehicle from clogged fuel injectors:
Never fill up when tankers are resupplying a service station. This stirs up whatever may be at the bottom of the storage tanks.
Keep gas tank as full as possible on a regular basis. Air in the tank contains moisture than can get into gasoline and cause problems.
Keep gas tank full or near-full when temperatures drop below freezing.
Avoid expensive premium gas because it sits in the tank longer because fewer people buy it.
Every 3,000 miles or so add a fuel injector cleaner/conditioner to tank when it is three-quarters full, then fill it all the way up.
Auto shop mechanics and dealership service managers are scratching their heads over a mysterious spike in the number of cars - of various makes and ages - they are seeing with clogged or failing fuel injectors in recent weeks, sticking their owners with $200 to $900 in repair bills.
"This is definitely out of the ordinary," said Charlie Sampson, a service consultant at Wilde Honda in Waukesha. "We had at least 25 in just three days."
Other Honda dealerships, as well as General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG service shops, around the Milwaukee area report similar swells.
Some blame the change in weather - or the newly supplied seasonal gas. Others suggest possible contamination at one of the regional distribution terminals. One oil analyst suggests it could be the heavier crude now being used as a result of Hurricane Ivan knocking out access to lighter supplies from the Gulf Coast.
"We need to track down this product that's causing the problem," said Berni Mattsson, administrator of the agency's Division of Environmental and Regulatory Services.
The Department of Commerce regularly tests petroleum at distribution terminals around the region that supply Wisconsin's roughly 3,300 retailers. It would be unlikely that a terminal would be the source of the trouble, Mattsson said, as typically less than 1% of the incoming product doesn't meet specifications. Unsatisfactory supplies are usually caught before they leave the terminal, she said.
The department also tests service station tanks and pumps once every one to two years.
The Wisconsin Petroleum Council, an agency representing oil producers that supply the state, is also investigating the issue, said Erin Roth, executive director.
Roth said he's talking to all the suppliers to see if something went wrong Sept. 15 when they changed to the winter fuel blend, as is required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
"We're looking at 'Did somebody put too much of an additive in somewhere or are the service station tanks dirty?' " he said.
Roth was reminded of an incident in 2001 when Milwaukee received a supply of fuel with a rust inhibitor 100 times the allowable strength.
"People's cars were stopping on the highway," he said. "I'm not saying that this is what it is. We don't know if it has anything to do with the fuel."
Meanwhile, dealership mechanics and independent garage owners speculate about what might be triggering the surge.
"It's a manufacturers' problem," said Dan Karagianis, manager of Tarkus Complete Automotive Service, 5616 W. Burleigh St. in Milwaukee. Karagianis said he is seeing more fouled fuel injectors in GM vehicles than any others.
"Our manufacturers are telling us it's the fuel," said Al Weimar, service director at Braeger Chevrolet on S. 27th St. in Milwaukee.
Ray Kurian Jr., co-owner of Ray's OK Service Inc., 4100 N. Loomis Road, Greenfield, is convinced it is the fuel. Reformulated gasoline, mandated in six area counties in 1995, has taken a toll on cars over time, he said.
"We have seen a significant increase in failed fuel injectors and failed fuel pumps . . . for no apparent reason at all," Kurian said. "I've been doing this for 32 years now. Since we changed to reformulated gas, the number of fuel injection failures has quadrupled."
Some manufacturers - GM, BMW, Honda and Toyota - are so dissatisfied with the fuel supply nationwide they have teamed up with major oil companies, in an unprecedented move, to devise a new class of gasoline called Top Tier Detergent Gasoline that exceeds EPA detergent requirements. Top Tier is not yet available in Wisconsin.
Honda, which is investigating the fuel injector issue in the Milwaukee area, said low-quality fuel certainly causes problems in the long run.
"We've witnessed over time a degradation in the quality of gasoline," Honda spokesman Andy Boyd said. "We're really trying to address that."
Fuel injectors are meant to last well beyond 100,000 miles, Boyd said.
(Don't shoot the messenger!)
Injector flaws impede drivers, stump experts
Rash of costly repairs has some experts suspecting tainted gas
www.jsonline.com/news/gen/oct04/268069.asp
Mechanics, while not all in agreement, suggest a number of ways to help protect your vehicle from clogged fuel injectors:
Never fill up when tankers are resupplying a service station. This stirs up whatever may be at the bottom of the storage tanks.
Keep gas tank as full as possible on a regular basis. Air in the tank contains moisture than can get into gasoline and cause problems.
Keep gas tank full or near-full when temperatures drop below freezing.
Avoid expensive premium gas because it sits in the tank longer because fewer people buy it.
Every 3,000 miles or so add a fuel injector cleaner/conditioner to tank when it is three-quarters full, then fill it all the way up.
Auto shop mechanics and dealership service managers are scratching their heads over a mysterious spike in the number of cars - of various makes and ages - they are seeing with clogged or failing fuel injectors in recent weeks, sticking their owners with $200 to $900 in repair bills.
"This is definitely out of the ordinary," said Charlie Sampson, a service consultant at Wilde Honda in Waukesha. "We had at least 25 in just three days."
Other Honda dealerships, as well as General Motors Corp. and DaimlerChrysler AG service shops, around the Milwaukee area report similar swells.
Some blame the change in weather - or the newly supplied seasonal gas. Others suggest possible contamination at one of the regional distribution terminals. One oil analyst suggests it could be the heavier crude now being used as a result of Hurricane Ivan knocking out access to lighter supplies from the Gulf Coast.
"We need to track down this product that's causing the problem," said Berni Mattsson, administrator of the agency's Division of Environmental and Regulatory Services.
The Department of Commerce regularly tests petroleum at distribution terminals around the region that supply Wisconsin's roughly 3,300 retailers. It would be unlikely that a terminal would be the source of the trouble, Mattsson said, as typically less than 1% of the incoming product doesn't meet specifications. Unsatisfactory supplies are usually caught before they leave the terminal, she said.
The department also tests service station tanks and pumps once every one to two years.
The Wisconsin Petroleum Council, an agency representing oil producers that supply the state, is also investigating the issue, said Erin Roth, executive director.
Roth said he's talking to all the suppliers to see if something went wrong Sept. 15 when they changed to the winter fuel blend, as is required by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
"We're looking at 'Did somebody put too much of an additive in somewhere or are the service station tanks dirty?' " he said.
Roth was reminded of an incident in 2001 when Milwaukee received a supply of fuel with a rust inhibitor 100 times the allowable strength.
"People's cars were stopping on the highway," he said. "I'm not saying that this is what it is. We don't know if it has anything to do with the fuel."
Meanwhile, dealership mechanics and independent garage owners speculate about what might be triggering the surge.
"It's a manufacturers' problem," said Dan Karagianis, manager of Tarkus Complete Automotive Service, 5616 W. Burleigh St. in Milwaukee. Karagianis said he is seeing more fouled fuel injectors in GM vehicles than any others.
"Our manufacturers are telling us it's the fuel," said Al Weimar, service director at Braeger Chevrolet on S. 27th St. in Milwaukee.
Ray Kurian Jr., co-owner of Ray's OK Service Inc., 4100 N. Loomis Road, Greenfield, is convinced it is the fuel. Reformulated gasoline, mandated in six area counties in 1995, has taken a toll on cars over time, he said.
"We have seen a significant increase in failed fuel injectors and failed fuel pumps . . . for no apparent reason at all," Kurian said. "I've been doing this for 32 years now. Since we changed to reformulated gas, the number of fuel injection failures has quadrupled."
Some manufacturers - GM, BMW, Honda and Toyota - are so dissatisfied with the fuel supply nationwide they have teamed up with major oil companies, in an unprecedented move, to devise a new class of gasoline called Top Tier Detergent Gasoline that exceeds EPA detergent requirements. Top Tier is not yet available in Wisconsin.
Honda, which is investigating the fuel injector issue in the Milwaukee area, said low-quality fuel certainly causes problems in the long run.
"We've witnessed over time a degradation in the quality of gasoline," Honda spokesman Andy Boyd said. "We're really trying to address that."
Fuel injectors are meant to last well beyond 100,000 miles, Boyd said.
If you use a high-traffic gas station you probably have nothing to worry about.....if you use some obscure mom and pop shop well off the beaten path then yeah, maybe the premium will sit in the tank too long. That article won't dissuade me from buying 93 octane anytime soon (though soaring prices might 
)
)
i have heard the new shell gasoline is being blamed on a higher number of failing fuel pumps in nissan/infiniti vehicles. i personally have not heard of any other brand being blamed besides them, at least in the nissan realm.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 193
All these gas companies are putting all these additives and detergents in their gas. Kind of makes me nervous. The only detergent I use is the fuel injector cleaner after oil changes.
I mean is it possible to just get plain old gas anymore?
I mean is it possible to just get plain old gas anymore?
Originally Posted by passEMonTHErite
All these gas companies are putting all these additives and detergents in their gas. Kind of makes me nervous. The only detergent I use is the fuel injector cleaner after oil changes.
I mean is it possible to just get plain old gas anymore?
I mean is it possible to just get plain old gas anymore?
I'd trust detergents gasoline companies put in their gas over 95% of the stuff you buy in a bottle and dump in your gas tank.
I would have ignored this post a couple of weeks back except that within the past 3 days, we've seen at least 5 maximas come down with injector problems. Even though I'm pretty sure it's not coincidence, I still find it interesting. So, hm... 
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,594
One gas station I have visited had little counters on who bought what. Most bought 87. A good number bought 93, and very few bought 89. Anyway "Avoid expensive premium gas because it sits in the tank longer because fewer people buy it." Is retarded. yes it sits in the tank longer, but does that mean it's sitting there long enough to become stale? Simply saying it sits in the tank longer is incomporably idiotic. Anyway, I'm not directing at the OP. Like he said, he's just the messenger 
I would too. That's why chevron's techron is probably one of the "safest" injector cleaners, because it's for the most part just a concentrate of what chevron already puts in their gasoline.
I'd trust detergents gasoline companies put in their gas over 95% of the stuff you buy in a bottle and dump in your gas tank.
i've noticed much better -performance with new Shell gas (premium) @ $2.20 a gallon
Idle is smooth , no hesitation at 3000 rpms , car pulls strong.
I was using Mobil for over 2 years and one day i have noticed the tanker resupplying the gas station with no name/no brand gas - there was no signs of Mobil on it at all.
It might make no difference but here in Gurnee Mobil permium goes for $2.35 and Shell v-power sells for $2.20
Nick.
Idle is smooth , no hesitation at 3000 rpms , car pulls strong.
I was using Mobil for over 2 years and one day i have noticed the tanker resupplying the gas station with no name/no brand gas - there was no signs of Mobil on it at all.
It might make no difference but here in Gurnee Mobil permium goes for $2.35 and Shell v-power sells for $2.20
Nick.
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From: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted by nick
i've noticed much better -performance with new Shell gas (premium) @ $2.20 a gallon
Idle is smooth , no hesitation at 3000 rpms , car pulls strong.
I was using Mobil for over 2 years and one day i have noticed the tanker resupplying the gas station with no name/no brand gas - there was no signs of Mobil on it at all.
It might make no difference but here in Gurnee Mobil permium goes for $2.35 and Shell v-power sells for $2.20
Nick.
Idle is smooth , no hesitation at 3000 rpms , car pulls strong.
I was using Mobil for over 2 years and one day i have noticed the tanker resupplying the gas station with no name/no brand gas - there was no signs of Mobil on it at all.
It might make no difference but here in Gurnee Mobil permium goes for $2.35 and Shell v-power sells for $2.20
Nick.
Originally Posted by MaximaPolak
Your wrong about that people don't buy premium......Everyone around where I live, except a few people, buys premium.
Has anyone else heard of the problems caused by Shell Gasoline with their new V power? Word on the street is that some Infiniti, Acura, etc. dealerships are having to replace entire fuel systems on vehicles that have used this fuel. It apparently is to blame for quick deterioration of fuel systems on these vehicles and in many cases Shell has picked up the bill for vehicle repairs. Upon hearing this news I decided to use this fuel more often to see if there is any merit to this claim. But my guess is that many of these issues are isolated to certain mixing stations and perhaps the batches were mixed too strongly with detergents. Also keep in mind that Shell advertises Five times the required amount of detergents in their V power gasoline.
As for abd gasoline, it really does depend on the traffic at the fuel station. Most of the stations in my area are high traffic and I consistantly see very clean fuel tanks in the vehicles around here.
As for abd gasoline, it really does depend on the traffic at the fuel station. Most of the stations in my area are high traffic and I consistantly see very clean fuel tanks in the vehicles around here.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 210
Originally Posted by passEMonTHErite
All these gas companies are putting all these additives and detergents in their gas. Kind of makes me nervous. The only detergent I use is the fuel injector cleaner after oil changes.
I mean is it possible to just get plain old gas anymore?
I mean is it possible to just get plain old gas anymore?
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 210
Oh yeah, one other thing -- what grade of fuel do recent Maximas call for? I drive a G35 sedan, which of course, has a version of the VQ35DE very similar to the one in the current Max. G35 sedans, with the 260hp/260ft-lb (mine's an 04) version of the VQ allow the use of regular, but recommend the use of premium for "improved performance." G35 Couple, which have a more Z-like version of the VQ (298/260 for man trans and 280/270 for autos, 2005 specs) requires the use of premium. If I had a coupe, I sure wouldn't pass up the premium on the chance that the regular was a tad fresher. My sedan is noticeably stronger and doesn't ping at all with premium. I'm staying with that, thanks.
Well, I fill up on Wednesday b/c Texaco has $.06 off premium. I sure others also ues it that day. I know at least near me, Premium is the most used, or those luxury and performance owners are stupid. (Lexus, BMW, Mercs, ect. everywhere. station is across from Hershey Med. Center)
Premium is recommended for Maximas. Gas has sat in the tankers coming over and the gas company when they add the Needed detergents.
Why would you want "plain old gas"?
Premium is recommended for Maximas. Gas has sat in the tankers coming over and the gas company when they add the Needed detergents.
Why would you want "plain old gas"?
yes I heard of this problem, it was a batch of gasoline shipped into the south, I think one of the refineries in Lousiana or somewhere in the south made a batch that was causing ALOT of problems a few months ago
Where I live premium gets pumped plenty, even at 2.69/gallon
I just wish we had good quality gasoline like other industrialized countries, there seems to always be a bad batch here, a bad batch there... I dont care about 50 times the requirement of detergents, to me that could be liable for some of the problems, how bout make some top notch gas, with just enough detergents to do the job
Originally Posted by SR20DEN
Has anyone else heard of the problems caused by Shell Gasoline with their new V power? Word on the street is that some Infiniti, Acura, etc. dealerships are having to replace entire fuel systems on vehicles that have used this fuel. It apparently is to blame for quick deterioration of fuel systems on these vehicles and in many cases Shell has picked up the bill for vehicle repairs.
Where I live premium gets pumped plenty, even at 2.69/gallon
I just wish we had good quality gasoline like other industrialized countries, there seems to always be a bad batch here, a bad batch there... I dont care about 50 times the requirement of detergents, to me that could be liable for some of the problems, how bout make some top notch gas, with just enough detergents to do the job
Originally Posted by carnal_c30
I just wish we had good quality gasoline like other industrialized countries, there seems to always be a bad batch here, a bad batch there... I dont care about 50 times the requirement of detergents, to me that could be liable for some of the problems, how bout make some top notch gas, with just enough detergents to do the job
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 699
Originally Posted by carnal_c30
I just wish we had good quality gasoline like other industrialized countries, there seems to always be a bad batch here, a bad batch there... I dont care about 50 times the requirement of detergents, to me that could be liable for some of the problems, how bout make some top notch gas, with just enough detergents to do the job
Notice Shell gas is not there yet.
Originally Posted by GimmeTorq
Hopefully this new standard will help... http://www.toptiergas.com/
Notice Shell gas is not there yet.
Notice Shell gas is not there yet.
and about $4/gallon... yea thats kinda true but I mean like Saudi Arabia where gas is like 10 cents a gallon
4.99 willl get me 106 octane
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 699
Is this the issue with Shell gasoline you guys have been talking about? That's messed up!! I think I'm gonna avoid Shell...
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...08/199111.html
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...08/199111.html
I work for the Health Department and inspect gas stations. The mom and pop stations are a concern because some have not upgraded the tanks to EPA standards. Another concern are the stations that have a couple of inches of water sitting on the bottom of the tank. The main concern are the trucks that transport the gasoline. These tankers are not capeable of being washed out due to the posibility of water contamination. And more often than not the truck will transport premium today and regular tomorow in the same compartment. And you know those compartments are rarely empty before they are refilled.
"Never fill up when tankers are resupplying a service station. This stirs up whatever may be at the bottom of the storage tanks."
This is something to live by... It takes almost 24 hours for tank that has just been filled to settle....
Vince
"Never fill up when tankers are resupplying a service station. This stirs up whatever may be at the bottom of the storage tanks."
This is something to live by... It takes almost 24 hours for tank that has just been filled to settle....
Vince
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,177
From: NM
Very interesting discussion. I always use Premium. especially where my city, a lot of people regularly use Premium since there's a lot of late models out here that requires it. But those iwth a beater car, i'm sure they use regular (87) or Plus (89)
Originally Posted by MaximaPolak
Your wrong about that people don't buy premium......Everyone around where I live, except a few people, buys premium.
yah you have jersey gas prices. I love that first station off the GW bridge heading upstate on the Palisades PKY where I can get 93 for 2.17 and its full service. Then I travel 5 miles up the road and see dumb people buying the same octance gas for 2.69 a gallon since they are still in ny. I hate state boundaries
Originally Posted by GimmeTorq
Hopefully this new standard will help... http://www.toptiergas.com/
Notice Shell gas is not there yet.
Notice Shell gas is not there yet.
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers
Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
In addition, all gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must meet the TOP TIER standards.
Additional gasoline retailers are added to the TOP TIER list as they meet the standards. The retailers known to be on the TOP TIER list are shown below.
TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Phillips
76
Shell
Entec Stations
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