CEFIRO

i bought last time, time to change the oil again. Just wondering?!?!?!

2002 Maxima SE

iTrader: (3)

Mine cost $40.

Virus

iTrader: (1)

He meant oil filter. Yes they are great filters. Champion Labs makes the K&N and the Mobil 1 which are almost identical. Usually the K&N's are $9 and the Mobil 1's are $10. If your going to go with 5k+ oil change intervals, yes they are worth it. If you are going 3k intervals, the Nissan OEM has a better price/performance ratio.

CEFIRO

thanks man

Torkaholic

I've got to disagree with the part about the Nissan OEM filter, which, at least in the small size, has a Fram-style cardboard endcap design. I've seen much debate about the pros and cons of the Fram-style design, but when my local dealership charges as much for the OEM as for M1 or K&N, I'd go with one of those instead.

Both the M1 and K&N share the same Champion Labs skeletal structure (although the K&N adds the hex head on top of the filter for easier removal from tight spots). The element in the M1 emphasizes finer filtration whereas the element in the K&N maximizes flow at the expense of some degree of filtration. I'm in the process of doing back-to-back comparisons with used oil analysis to see if one or the other produces better results in my VQ powered G35. It will be a couple of months before I'm done, but when I do, I'll put the results up here too.

johnny2kgle

The K&N oil filter is top notch. I know some will disagree with this, but the Bosch Premium (only sold at Autozone) is a cheaper Champion Labs alternative at $6. I have used the Bosch in extended drains with no problems.

Torkaholic

I agree. At least the US made Bosch filters are a quality product. I have cut a tall VQ size (3233) Bosch apart with a pipe cutter, and it too shares the beefy Champ Labs skeletal structure, same as the M1 and the K&N. I do not, however, know about the specific makeup of its filter element. Even with that "limitation," I would have no problem using this filter either.

johnny2kgle

Torkaholic,

Do you mean the Bosch 3323 which is the same size as the M1 110?




I am considering the use of the Bosch 3400 (same size as the M1 208) as an oversized alternative to the small or short/wide filter. This is the spec'd filter for my 94 altima. The gaskets line almost exactly for the 3400/3323.

CEFIRO

Thank you all, for te very useful info, Please torkaholic keep me posted on your results.
Johnny you're from marietta, hit me up, maybe we can meet sometime! im around here, youshould come to our minimeets!!!

Torkaholic

Yes, dyslexic typo. . . same as the M1-110.

I had not considered the 208, although I have a M1-105 (much wider than the 108/110 filters). I'll have to have a look at that one too.

Gary Libretti

I have used K&N oil filter since my first change at 3k miles. I pay about $10 at Advanced Auto Parts. I relocated the filter away from the engine block to increase oil volume and improve oil cooling. Bought kit from Summit and upgrade hose from NAPA. Needed exactly 11 feet of hose...rated at 500psi for pressure. Total cost of kit and extra hose was $75. Filter bracket installed nicely in area vacated by stock air intake. Hose runs under Injen CAI then along radiator to spin-on adaptor on the engine block. Very easy project. Installed K&N HP-3001 filter...three times the size of OEM. It adds about and extra quart of oil to the system. Also installed Fram Sure Drain SD-3 to drain oil without tools or mess. Can drain oil directly into recycle container. Pic's on my homepage.

Love_00_Max

K&N filters have high flow rate which means low filteration -- I like their media but anything over $5 is not worth it.

I will stick with PureOne, OEM or Wix which have good flow rate and good filteration for a price way less than $10.

Both Mobil1 and K&N are committing day light robbery.

Torkaholic

I'm not so sure I'd condemn the M1 at this point. Last week, I took the apparently unusual step of ordering my latest used oil analysis, with the optional particle counts (which I described in another thread in this forum). I was using the Mobil-1 filter for this interval. As you can see from the data (see link below), the M1 produced phenomenally clean oil. I turned this over to my oil analysis guy who confirmed what I'd found on the internet: this oil, in use for 5k miles already, is clean even by demanding hydraulic system standards. Unfortunately, I don't have other filter results to compare with (yet), but from my lab numbers, it does appear that the M1 is actually doing what it promises -- filtering out the vast bulk of bad particles, while allowing effective lubrication. Now, if someone else has similarly good particle counts from a less expensive filter, I'd re-evaluate, but for now, I'll happily pay a few extra bucks for a filter that gives me provably super-clean oil. BTW, the 2, 5, and 10 micron particle counts won't raise flags until they reach the five-digit range. Check out these.

Love_00_Max

M1 is good (well even very good in terms of filteration) but to pay $10 for it is quite high a price to pay!!!

All that Iam saying is if the OCI is 4K miles and if the air filter is good and the throttle body is all sealed up (I use duct tape over the the large number of hardware connections to the throttle body) -- I see no reason for expensive filters.

Also, my oil analysis that I did some months back on 5K OCI with PureOne was below the expected average.

A little dirty air filter is better than a new one becoz there are higher chances for the new one to send larger dust particles into the combustion chamber than a dirty air filter (in short don't change air filters very ofter, once in 30K miles is good enough)

Torkaholic

Do you mean "below average" as in poor performance or lower-than-normal wear numbers (better performance)?

Unfortunately, without particle counts, you really can't tell whether the stuff that's showing up in your oil is just harmlessly dissolved or super-micro, or if it is in the will-cause-damage size range. Interestingly (at least to me), there is some overlap between what will show up in the particle counts and the basic elemental analysis. Everything from totally dissolved up to around 10 micron suspended particles will show up as elemental results in the spectro (assuming the test looks for the particular element, of course). On the other hand, depending upon the model of the particle counting machine, and its settings, it's usually not going to register any particle, regardless of what it is, if it's smaller than about 2 microns. For this reason, even a good looking specto analysis (what most folks are getting) will not necessarily tell you if you've got unfiltered debris in the dangerous size range (which starts somewhere around two microns). Since I now know that the M1 filter does an extraordinary job (at least it has once on my car), I've got no problem paying an added $4 to get this filter. And as I said, if I find similar results from a less expensive option, I will promptly re-evaluate. There is certainly room for reasonable disagreement on this, but I don't find ~$10 to be too much to pay in exchange for getting motor oil that's as clean as hydraulic fluid. Let's raise the ante -- order up a particle count yourself on your next UOA! It's only $20 more, and you get perhaps the most meaningful data you can from your oil.

EDIT: I like the taping your ductwork idea; it plays well in my OCD mind. . . On the other hand, while this might help reduce silicone ingestion, it's not going to reduce your metal wear, except to the extent that some metal wear results from silicone grinding of metal surfaces.

Love_00_Max

[QUOTE=Torkaholic]Do you mean "below average" as in poor performance or lower-than-normal wear numbers (better performance)?

Changes to the tolerances of the pistons and metallic parts in the oil is primarily due to dirt/particles that have somehow entered the engine. And all that I can think of is 2 sources for this particles entering the engine bay:

1) Throttle body : If all sealed up this is out of the way.
2) Muffler : Since VQ30 are air breathing from the exhaust (one port of the muffler is used to breathe air after 60 MPH and the other is exhaust), there is a chance of dirt/particles coming to the combustion chamber from the exhaust. And this usually happens if one run over something on the road and it hits back onto the cat/precat and creating a crack (entry point for particles) or those avid off road guys where pebbles/rock would almost certainly smack open the cats/precats etc -- some even remove the cats/precats for better HP. For normal driving on good roads, if the throttle body is kept clean with 4-5K OCI and good oil, the analysis would be good.

I meant that the PPP count on the metals of concern and silicone were less that the column detailing normal wear numbers -- meaning I got lesser count numbers on those harmful metals including silicone than others with similar OCI.

You have a good suggestion to get total PPP count -- $20 is not much when it comes to getting the doctors report!!!!

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I don't think K&N is really in the oil filter making business. If you like the filter, find out who they use as an OEM manufacturer and use that one. It's probably alot cheaper and the only thing you have to give up is the convenient bolt attached to the bottom of the filter.

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

Whoa, whoa, whoa!!

WHAT??

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

obviuously he's using a Kaleco O-pipe...sheesh...

Torkaholic

[QUOTE=Love_00_Max{snip}

2) Muffler : Since VQ30 are air breathing from the exhaust (one port of the muffler is used to breathe air after 60 MPH and the other is exhaust), there is a chance of dirt/particles coming to the combustion chamber from the exhaust. And this usually happens if one run over something on the road and it hits back onto the cat/precat and creating a crack (entry point for particles) or those avid off road guys where pebbles/rock would almost certainly smack open the cats/precats etc -- some even remove the cats/precats for better HP. For normal driving on good roads, if the throttle body is kept clean with 4-5K OCI and good oil, the analysis would be good.

{snip}[/QUOTE]

The muffler you're referring to does not feed air into the engine. The mufflers used with higher performance VQ engines have a dual path arrangement for exhaust flow (the G35, BTW, has the same setup). The idea is that at relatively low rpm and exhuast gas flows, the valve in the second path stays closed. This maintains a level of back pressure that enhances torque generation by the engine. When the rpms/exhaust gas flow increases above a certain level, the valve opens up, allowing maximum exhaust gas flow, and thus maximum horsepower generation. If you're getting crossed up because you've heard the term "exhaust gas recirculation" (EGR), please rest assured that EGR does not involve breathing through the muffler. That's an emissions system that you'll find entirely under the hood.

Torkaholic

The K&N, Mobil-1, Bosch Premium, STP, Autozone Valuecraft, and a couple others are all made by Champion Labs, and use the same "skeletal structure" (K&N does add the hex head to their cans, as you mentioned). The different makes do, at least by my visual inspection following pipecutter "autopsies" of these filters, use different filtration media. At least the filter media are different colors and textures, which might mean nothing, or something, hence my on-going UOA experiment. All these filters use very robust construction. You should see a Fram cut up -- ouch. But I'm sure that's old news. Now, if the Bosch Premium, which is only ~$6 produces the same particle counts as the M1, I'll start using those.

Love_00_Max

Thank you my friends -- pl. don't quote me on this muffer statement...

My impression of the mufflers in 5th gen max (coming from Skyline GT muffler) was variable capacity muffler utilizing a special flap valve (using high temperature aerospace spring technology and materials), which opens at 2,000 rpm and above - reducing exhaust system backpressure and increasing horsepower. I got it wrong!!! Sorry.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Your cut/paste is 100% correct. Your attempt to explain it on your own above was horribly wrong. hehe