DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I was thinking of tyring one of those octane boosters sold in the parts stores. Does anybody use them? Do they have any long term side affects?

I'm asking this because I wanted to see what affect higher octane gas will make on performance when ignition timing is set to 17.

Thanks in advance!

steven88

iTrader: (28)

i heard the ones sold at the store is strong enough to bump up octane...but there isn't enough quantity to actually help raise your mixture...they say its better to buy in gallons at the race track or something...then mix it along with your regular premium gas...make sure you mix it right by pouring a few gallons of race fuel when your tank is low...then filling it up some more with premium at the pump

and i don't think it will matter if your ignition is set to 17 degrees...i heard regular premium will handle 17 degrees BTDC just fine...

ShIft_uR FacE

iTrader: (4)

your only going to have one affect towards performance...your going to want to push your car more which in turn is going to waste more gas and in the end your going to realize...o **** i just wasted my money.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

Steve, do you have any more info on this? Because, that's basically what I'm trying to find out.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I know...

steven88

iTrader: (28)

if you read through the various 17 degree threads, you'll see that most everybody runs perfectly fine with premium gas...and even some report no problems with regular too

let me know if you have any more questions!

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

They might not have any problems because the knock sensor is doing it's job, not because the fuel they are using can hale 17 degrees timing advance.

steven88

iTrader: (28)

haha, in theory, yes...but when i got mine done, it feels great and it still does...i'm running on sh!tty california 91 octane....and i can tell the difference between a 17 degree'd 6spd versus a 14 degree'd 6spd (drove two local 6spds)...so i know mine is working without hp being pulled by the knock sensor...and i'm sure everyone else applies the same...becuz they report having a preppier car with this mod

BewstAdd1ct

just remember, a "1 point" increase means a tenth.

if a booster raises gasoline 5 points, itll put 93 octane at 93.5 octane.

waste of money

gmax96

iTrader: (2)

ive tried octane booster before when i had a bad KS and it helped a lot it felt like i increased on HP but i dont need it anymore since i chage my KS. side effectswise. none so far *crossedfingers*

SilverMax_04

The booster is likely composed of the chemicals Toluene or Xylene. You will need quite a bit (volume) to get much boost in octane. Lets talk Research Octane to work on a blend, and then move the numbers back to (R+M)/2 octane (posted on the pump) to see what you will get.

Assume the booster is 110 R Octane (a reasonable assumption) and that the fuel at the station is 98 R Octane (93 posted likely measuring 98 R and 88 M octane). If you blended about 10% booster (2 gallons in a 20 gallon tank) you would have 99.2 R octane fuel. If the sensitivity of this new blend remained about 10 (not certain this assumption is good, as this measure may increase to 11), then the posted octane {or (R+M)/2 octane} would be about 94 octane or an increase of one unit by blending about 10% booster.

With a 50/50 blend of booster (10 gallons) and 93 octane premium (10 gallons) you would not have the seme effect because the sensitivity would most likely increase (assume to 12), giving you about 98 posted octane from a fuel with an average Research Octane of 104.

I suspect that your Max can not effectively use any posted octane higher than about 94 -- if even that high. In other words the extra octane will not be utilized by the engine and your extra money to get that boost would be wasted. I'm also told by good authority (SteVTEC) that it takes up to 300 miles before the spark advance control in the VQ engine completely adjusts for changes in octane. So you may have to run this mixture for a while to get the maximum advantage.

Now if you put just a little TEL (lead) in the gasoline, you would get quite a boost in octane, but ruin your cat converter.

To better understand the concepts around octane, check out my thread on "Octane Number and What It Means" here:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=396716

BewstAdd1ct

good post ^^^

basically itll take 1.8 gallons of LOLBOOSTER for your 18 gallon tank to get you from 93 to 94 (R+M)/2



not to mention the o2 sensors.

SilverMax_04

On rechecking this thread after the last post, I note that I did not answer this part of your question.

The cotainer of booster should say if the contents is either Toluene or Xylene. If either of these are the basis of the booster, there will be no problems with your fuel system. Both chemicals are (or have been) used by oil companies to increase the octane of premium gasoline. If something else is listed as the chemical, I would be much more concerned about what the effect could be to your fuel system.

If the booster contains ethanol, you should be certain that the base gasoline does not also contain ethanol. The percent of alcohol should not exceed 10% to protect your fuel system. 10 percent ethanol (when blended by oil companies) has the effect of increasing 87 octane regular up to 89 octane mid-grade. I suspect that 10 % ethanol blended into 93 octane premium (that does not contain any ethanol) will not produce the same 2 units increase in octane, but should give at least a 1 unit increase if not something slightly more.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

Thanks! So, basically octane booster does very little and should not be counted on, even though it should not have any long term affects.

BTW, SilerMax, do you know if 93 octane gasoline that is sold with 10% of ethanol is rated at 93 before or after ethanol is added to the substance?

SilverMax_04

It is not that it does very little, it is the fact that you need to add about 10% to get a one octane number boost.

The numbers posted on the gas pump are (supposed to be) the final octane of the fuel being dispensed (after all blending, including ethanol). So any ethanol is counted in that number. Govt. regs allow companies to sell fuel with an actual octane number higher than the number posted. But there are financial penalties for selling any fuel that is less than the posted number. There are times when the actual octane is higher than the posted octane -- but this is rarely the case for premium gasoline. This happens more frequently for regular and some times for mid-grade. There are some refineries that in the winter make regular gasoline that has almost 89 octane in order to meet other specs for that winter gasoline.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

They're running fine because the timing change doesn't go past 2300 RPM. It's exactly like stock after that.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, pretty interesting info!

Are you sure about that?? There will be virtually no point of advancing the timing if it did not make any difference after 2300 RPM...

nismology

iTrader: (8)

You're right, there is no point. Classic case of the placebo effect. Only the base timing is affected. The timing throughout the rev range is based on a feedback system during closed loop and a predetermined map in open loop. Changing the timing via the Consult doesn't affect either of these conditions.

Further proof that it doesn't do squat is the fact that the stock ECU advances the timing to the high 20's at high RPM at WOT. The timing isn't static throughout the rev-range like older cars with distributors.