I was reading about race cars on how stuff works:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/champ-car.htm

That got me thinking as to why some consumer cars have spoilers whle others dont(for example the corvette or the M3 as opposed to the G35 or skyline). Further, it made me wonder why some people actively want one, and whether or not they really notice a difference after their purchase.
According to howstuffworks, the wings on the front and back of the car provide a downward force(presumably to keep the car from taking off the track at 240mph)
Obviously not all of us are pushing 200+ mph speeds(actually after reading some of the posts on here, some of you might be), so what is the point of adding on that wing weight?
Does it provide some sort of performance advantage?
I've heard everything from better steering on tight turns to smoother ride.
I guess the ultimate question is: after all is said and done, does the wing provide any real functionalty other than looks and styling?

BTW, i've been a lurker on this site(this is my first post) for a while and it kicks a$$. You guys know the maxima inside and out, and can give an honest answer where a dealership might not.
Bless the person who invented the internet.

I have a 2k2 max GLE w/o spoiler for those who were wondering.

 

Most people want them on street cars for looks. The reason some sports/race cars don't have them is because their rears are designed to maximize downforce without the need for a wing (like the new Z).

 

Very succinct and correct Voltman!

Understand, Sust that any car that is off the ground and has air flowing under it gets an upward pressure. Airdams are probably more useful at our "high" speeds than wings because it pushs air around the car instead of letting it flow under. Lowering also lets you stick to the road because of less air flow.
The wings on our cars are, like Voltman said - mostly for show but at high speeds it does help create downward pressure (see Bernoulli principle of lift - similar concept). While riding down the road put your hand out the window like a flat blade at the same angle as the wing - you'll feel the push. Have you ever been in a vette at 150? At about 90 you can feel it sit down on the road and it gets tighter with more speed. At 150 it's in its element. It's built in the aerodynamic design. - no wing needed.

THis is how I understand it. I may be incorrect on points here but others can chime in. Just trying to do my part.

Shaydz

 

somebody correct me if im wrong but why would you want a larger size wing on a FWD when youre trying to keep the downforce on the wheels that drive the car. im sure the wing helps with the drag coefficient i assume and looks but why on FWD?

 

Downforce has nothing do with which wheels drive the car. A wing does not help mechanical grip (unless we are talking race cars that are able to spin its tires coming out of 90 MPH corners), however it does create more downforce on the end of the car that has a wing.

The reason there is an argument against wings on a FWD car has nothing to do with the FWD itself, but rather the fact that FWD cars inherantly understeer at their cornering limit and having a wing would make that situation worse by providing more relative downforce at the rear of the car.

As for your the drag co-efficient, it's the exact opposite. A wing actually increases drag thereby making the drag co-efficient worse.

 

Spoilers aren't needed for any street car. I don't care if it's a 127hp Civic or 600hp Mustang, they provide something like 1.8 lbs. of downforce at 200MpH, which is almost nothing. And even if you were building a full racecar, a wing would be the last thing to worry about.
-Cyrus

 

SUST!!! Hey man this is Nick! How is work going? Send me a PM. Oh....I agree with the other posts above me.....
And get back to work!!

 

Vyrus,
Where did you get that stat?

Check out this page - it's about racing aerodynamics (so it's not about my little Max) .
http://www.nas.nasa.gov/About/Educat.../rearwing.html
A snippet:
" The three piece cascade wing is a high downforce wing used on the street and road courses. It provides maximum downforce (capable of producing 3000 lbs. of downforce) but also a maximum amount of drag. The standard wing used on short ovals is a two piece assembly which creates less drag and downforce than the cascade wing. The speedway design or low downforce wing is the smallest of the three and produces minimum drag."

I know the designs are different but there's got to be more than 1.8 lbs of downforce on street race wings or even our stock cars. Not enough to think about but certainly more than the weight of a europeon swallow. hehehe

Shaydz

 

I got it out of an old SuperStreet magazine. You would think they'd be the first ones to promote something like that, but apparetly even they deemed it useless. I'm sure those CART cars have a suspension that utilizes their wings, but like I said street cars don't and almost nothing comes of them (or so according to superstreet).
-Cyrus

 

Get a heavier wing! It'll produce more "Downforce"

 

 

BZZZT - wrong answer. It depends entirely upon the vehicle. Note
the Audi TT. Audi actually performed a recall on the 99 & 2000 models because they became unstable at high speeds (anything over 125MPH). The solution? As I recall they tossed in some suspension
changes but more to the point of this thread, they fit all TTs with a small rear spoiler. It looks like a little ducktail but it does do the job. Seems a few people had nasty wipeouts crusing down an Autobahn and making a lane change. Others were more fortunate and just noted instability with high speed maneuvers.

Cheers,

JK

 

you should pick up the september issue of Super Street and read the article called "All About Aerodynamics"... they seem to contradict they're older issues...

 

My spoiler collects snow

 

Cheston's wing is actually a sneeze guard...

 

In F1, above certain speeds, the cars could theoretically drive upside down (like in a tunnel) due to the aerodynamics. The cars get pushed down so much that they can take turns up to 3-4 Gs.
Have you ever seen footage of a rear spoiler ripping off an F1 car? They fly up in the air and fall down hard
As for street cars, it's extremely rare they actually do need the spoilers but some really do. The TT mentioned above is an example There are others but they're rare. Front spoilers (to reduce the air from going under the car and to keep the front down) can be as important as rear spoilers.

 

What about that Porsche model which has the speed sensitive wing? Surely it cant just be there for show.

Oh yeah, and the new G35 go to www.infiniti.com has an "aerodynamics package" which lowers coefficient of drag by .01. Of course this isnt alot but they published the spec.

 

I have done some pretty extensive street and track testing of both spoilers and airdams. Both work and if done correctly will become effective above about 40mph in both reducing drag and balancing downforce. OTOH, wings are pretty much additional drag with more downforce, not a particularly good trade unless road racing with a handling challenged or ground effects car. I sort of shot myself in the food once by designing and building a front airdam that was so efficient that it nearly cancelled any gains from drafting unless I was behind a barn door (Volvo or Rabbit).

 

this is wrong.

http://www.swedespeed.com/main_news/07_04_02.html

for the uninitiated... Volvo is coming out with a 300hp AWD car and they put this tiny little wing on there "...to reduce the rear liftting forces by 20 percent - and it does precisely that."

so, if that little 'wing' reduces lifting forces by 20%, it's doing more than 'providing 1.8 lbs of downforce' and speeds much lower than 200MpH.



Not that I'm a big wing fan (anything bigger than what's stock is overkill to me) but your numbers are messed up.

 

A long long time ago, when gas was rising in price from $0.25 / US gallon, there was an 'energy crisis'. Whether or not there was a real crisis could be the subject of an entire course, but there were shortages of gasoline at your friendly neighborhood gas stations. Lots of work started going into trying to find ways to save gasoline.

One way to save gas is for use less horsepower to move the car through the air, and the one of the ways to do that is to reduce drag.

Spoilers can reduce drag. It depends, of course, on the shape of the spoiler, as well as its angle of attack, as well as the shape of the car. The spoiler will cause the airflow over the car to 'stay together' (he says, wanting to avoid looking up the actual technical term) until several feet after the car. This keeps eddys from forming at the back. Those eddys are drag. Get the eddys to separate from the back of the car, and you need less HP to get through the air.

 

spoilers are mainly for looks for every day driving car. however, the spoiler on our car actually do something. if you remember the ad from nissan (for the 4th gen) long time ago, it actually reduce the drag (or produce downforce? I forgot). If I remember correctly, the ad said something about the "coefficient of drag is 0.xx* (xx is some number I forgot and * is the note you need to read at the bottom of the page) and more aerodynamic than the 3rd gen.....blah blah blah". if you look closely at the note on the bottom, it says " *SE model only".

 

for the 5th gens, the spoiler lowers the drag coefficient by .1.. from .32-.31.. but who knows, it could all be just advertisement.

 

i eat salad off of mine.

 

damn vyrus.. you got own3d in this thread by almost everyone

 

true, true...