one step closer to a BMW-like ride (SFC Stage II review)
08-24-2002, 01:37 AM
#1
one step closer to a BMW-like ride (SFC Stage II review)
Warpspeed Stage 2 SFCs were installed, but I ran into many problem along the way. The cool thing is, Midas let me do the install myself, but I was taking way too long (I'm not experienced with drilling a 1/4'' thick piece of steel with a 3/8'' bit) and they ended up doing 75% of the install after I bolted on the crossmember.
Problems:
- The heatshield on the cat was in the way of the driver side front arm. The guy was really cool about it and took a torch and cleanly cut a perfect angle so the bar would clear. The heatshield still looks in stock form now and even though I was a little unsure of the mechanic's suggestion, I'm glad I let him alter the headshield a little bit.
- The bolts were too long for the areas that connect to the mounting pads. There wasn't enough clearance for me, especially on the side with the fuel lines. So luckily they used the same grade 5 bolts but just a bit shorter. (I noticed that MAX2NV has the bolts facing up, and the nut on top. That might be a smart way to avoid any clearance problems for the bolts.
- The crossmember's flat portions that connect to the Stage 1 center mounting pads does not have enough metal IMO. Without putting a car on the lift, it seems very difficult to get the holes to line up correctly. It took me a while before I finally decided where to drill, with the use of 2 vice clamps, a little spraypaint, and some eyeballing.
Suggestions and comments:
1) When you install the crossmember, be sure it is perfectly center. To aid in installation, use "pilot holes" with a smaller bit, and your 3/8'' will easily go through after that.
2) If you have problems with the cat heatshield, just slice a little piece off of it. I tried looking for pics similar to my problem but it seems like no one else has this heatshield under the cat.
3) A good and quick way to drill the holes on the corner mounting pads is to use an air tool to quickly make the "arms" snug to the center of the crossmember, and then line the other end of the arms as needed. From there, just take your 3/8'' drill and drill straight through the arm's hole, into the mounting pad. (That's how we did it, and it took about 10 minutes to do all 4)
Review:
The Stage II IMO help about 70% as much as Stage 1 would help from stock unibody stiffness. I think that Stage II acts like a good reinforcement, and Matt was right that it does reduce body roll a little bit more and improves overall ride feel on the street. And since I hvae H&Rs (a little squishy) I can say that cornering has improve even a bit more.
I took the car out tonight on this very nice and smooth road with lots of twists and turns. My conclusion with Stage 1 + 2 is that the ride and handling has become super stable, and handling is somewhat very angular and chiseled now. The car does not flex much anymore, and the car moves as one solid mass. Steering response is incredibly quick now, and while the steering is still a bit on the light side, it is definately more responsive.
I can't say that the ride has improved much more with the addition of Stage 2. If anything, the ride is more rigid, and bumps/imperfections are felt a bit more, but at the same time the car exhibits its structural stiffness which keeps me in control of the vehicle on any road condition.
Hope this helps. I'm pretty tired after driving so much and doing my first (1 second) burnout!! wooo hoo
Problems:
- The heatshield on the cat was in the way of the driver side front arm. The guy was really cool about it and took a torch and cleanly cut a perfect angle so the bar would clear. The heatshield still looks in stock form now and even though I was a little unsure of the mechanic's suggestion, I'm glad I let him alter the headshield a little bit.
- The bolts were too long for the areas that connect to the mounting pads. There wasn't enough clearance for me, especially on the side with the fuel lines. So luckily they used the same grade 5 bolts but just a bit shorter. (I noticed that MAX2NV has the bolts facing up, and the nut on top. That might be a smart way to avoid any clearance problems for the bolts.
- The crossmember's flat portions that connect to the Stage 1 center mounting pads does not have enough metal IMO. Without putting a car on the lift, it seems very difficult to get the holes to line up correctly. It took me a while before I finally decided where to drill, with the use of 2 vice clamps, a little spraypaint, and some eyeballing.
Suggestions and comments:
1) When you install the crossmember, be sure it is perfectly center. To aid in installation, use "pilot holes" with a smaller bit, and your 3/8'' will easily go through after that.
2) If you have problems with the cat heatshield, just slice a little piece off of it. I tried looking for pics similar to my problem but it seems like no one else has this heatshield under the cat.
3) A good and quick way to drill the holes on the corner mounting pads is to use an air tool to quickly make the "arms" snug to the center of the crossmember, and then line the other end of the arms as needed. From there, just take your 3/8'' drill and drill straight through the arm's hole, into the mounting pad. (That's how we did it, and it took about 10 minutes to do all 4)
Review:
The Stage II IMO help about 70% as much as Stage 1 would help from stock unibody stiffness. I think that Stage II acts like a good reinforcement, and Matt was right that it does reduce body roll a little bit more and improves overall ride feel on the street. And since I hvae H&Rs (a little squishy) I can say that cornering has improve even a bit more.
I took the car out tonight on this very nice and smooth road with lots of twists and turns. My conclusion with Stage 1 + 2 is that the ride and handling has become super stable, and handling is somewhat very angular and chiseled now. The car does not flex much anymore, and the car moves as one solid mass. Steering response is incredibly quick now, and while the steering is still a bit on the light side, it is definately more responsive.
I can't say that the ride has improved much more with the addition of Stage 2. If anything, the ride is more rigid, and bumps/imperfections are felt a bit more, but at the same time the car exhibits its structural stiffness which keeps me in control of the vehicle on any road condition.
Hope this helps. I'm pretty tired after driving so much and doing my first (1 second) burnout!! wooo hoo
08-26-2002, 04:24 PM
#6
Originally posted by Kevin Wong
Rats!! I was under the impression that the SFC's would lessen the bumpiness and improve the ride comfort. Well, I guess you can't have it all.
Rats!! I was under the impression that the SFC's would lessen the bumpiness and improve the ride comfort. Well, I guess you can't have it all.
08-26-2002, 06:34 PM
#7
Re: one step closer to a BMW-like ride (SFC Stage II review)
Originally posted by TurDz
Warpspeed Stage 2 SFCs were installed, but I ran into many problem along the way. The cool thing is, Midas let me do the install myself, but I was taking way too long (I'm not experienced with drilling a 1/4'' thick piece of steel with a 3/8'' bit) and they ended up doing 75% of the install after I bolted on the crossmember.
Problems:
- The heatshield on the cat was in the way of the driver side front arm. The guy was really cool about it and took a torch and cleanly cut a perfect angle so the bar would clear. The heatshield still looks in stock form now and even though I was a little unsure of the mechanic's suggestion, I'm glad I let him alter the headshield a little bit.
- The bolts were too long for the areas that connect to the mounting pads. There wasn't enough clearance for me, especially on the side with the fuel lines. So luckily they used the same grade 5 bolts but just a bit shorter. (I noticed that MAX2NV has the bolts facing up, and the nut on top. That might be a smart way to avoid any clearance problems for the bolts.
- The crossmember's flat portions that connect to the Stage 1 center mounting pads does not have enough metal IMO. Without putting a car on the lift, it seems very difficult to get the holes to line up correctly. It took me a while before I finally decided where to drill, with the use of 2 vice clamps, a little spraypaint, and some eyeballing.
Suggestions and comments:
1) When you install the crossmember, be sure it is perfectly center. To aid in installation, use "pilot holes" with a smaller bit, and your 3/8'' will easily go through after that.
2) If you have problems with the cat heatshield, just slice a little piece off of it. I tried looking for pics similar to my problem but it seems like no one else has this heatshield under the cat.
3) A good and quick way to drill the holes on the corner mounting pads is to use an air tool to quickly make the "arms" snug to the center of the crossmember, and then line the other end of the arms as needed. From there, just take your 3/8'' drill and drill straight through the arm's hole, into the mounting pad. (That's how we did it, and it took about 10 minutes to do all 4)
Review:
The Stage II IMO help about 70% as much as Stage 1 would help from stock unibody stiffness. I think that Stage II acts like a good reinforcement, and Matt was right that it does reduce body roll a little bit more and improves overall ride feel on the street. And since I hvae H&Rs (a little squishy) I can say that cornering has improve even a bit more.
I took the car out tonight on this very nice and smooth road with lots of twists and turns. My conclusion with Stage 1 + 2 is that the ride and handling has become super stable, and handling is somewhat very angular and chiseled now. The car does not flex much anymore, and the car moves as one solid mass. Steering response is incredibly quick now, and while the steering is still a bit on the light side, it is definately more responsive.
I can't say that the ride has improved much more with the addition of Stage 2. If anything, the ride is more rigid, and bumps/imperfections are felt a bit more, but at the same time the car exhibits its structural stiffness which keeps me in control of the vehicle on any road condition.
Hope this helps. I'm pretty tired after driving so much and doing my first (1 second) burnout!! wooo hoo
Warpspeed Stage 2 SFCs were installed, but I ran into many problem along the way. The cool thing is, Midas let me do the install myself, but I was taking way too long (I'm not experienced with drilling a 1/4'' thick piece of steel with a 3/8'' bit) and they ended up doing 75% of the install after I bolted on the crossmember.
Problems:
- The heatshield on the cat was in the way of the driver side front arm. The guy was really cool about it and took a torch and cleanly cut a perfect angle so the bar would clear. The heatshield still looks in stock form now and even though I was a little unsure of the mechanic's suggestion, I'm glad I let him alter the headshield a little bit.
- The bolts were too long for the areas that connect to the mounting pads. There wasn't enough clearance for me, especially on the side with the fuel lines. So luckily they used the same grade 5 bolts but just a bit shorter. (I noticed that MAX2NV has the bolts facing up, and the nut on top. That might be a smart way to avoid any clearance problems for the bolts.
- The crossmember's flat portions that connect to the Stage 1 center mounting pads does not have enough metal IMO. Without putting a car on the lift, it seems very difficult to get the holes to line up correctly. It took me a while before I finally decided where to drill, with the use of 2 vice clamps, a little spraypaint, and some eyeballing.
Suggestions and comments:
1) When you install the crossmember, be sure it is perfectly center. To aid in installation, use "pilot holes" with a smaller bit, and your 3/8'' will easily go through after that.
2) If you have problems with the cat heatshield, just slice a little piece off of it. I tried looking for pics similar to my problem but it seems like no one else has this heatshield under the cat.
3) A good and quick way to drill the holes on the corner mounting pads is to use an air tool to quickly make the "arms" snug to the center of the crossmember, and then line the other end of the arms as needed. From there, just take your 3/8'' drill and drill straight through the arm's hole, into the mounting pad. (That's how we did it, and it took about 10 minutes to do all 4)
Review:
The Stage II IMO help about 70% as much as Stage 1 would help from stock unibody stiffness. I think that Stage II acts like a good reinforcement, and Matt was right that it does reduce body roll a little bit more and improves overall ride feel on the street. And since I hvae H&Rs (a little squishy) I can say that cornering has improve even a bit more.
I took the car out tonight on this very nice and smooth road with lots of twists and turns. My conclusion with Stage 1 + 2 is that the ride and handling has become super stable, and handling is somewhat very angular and chiseled now. The car does not flex much anymore, and the car moves as one solid mass. Steering response is incredibly quick now, and while the steering is still a bit on the light side, it is definately more responsive.
I can't say that the ride has improved much more with the addition of Stage 2. If anything, the ride is more rigid, and bumps/imperfections are felt a bit more, but at the same time the car exhibits its structural stiffness which keeps me in control of the vehicle on any road condition.
Hope this helps. I'm pretty tired after driving so much and doing my first (1 second) burnout!! wooo hoo
kafene.
08-26-2002, 07:08 PM
#8
Re: Re: one step closer to a BMW-like ride (SFC Stage II review)
Originally posted by kafene
is this just for 4th gens? and how much was the parts?
kafene.
is this just for 4th gens? and how much was the parts?
kafene.
These are available for 3rd and 5th Gens also.
http://www.warpspeedperformance.com
08-27-2002, 05:31 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 111
So it makes for a more BMW-like stiffness? Or even at least accord/2000+ maxima rigidity? In other words, increased road-imperfections transmitted are "good-quality" imperfections right as opposed to the cheap flimsy stock max rattle?
Also, I was wondering if this mod will adversly affect the collision safety of the max? structurally, engine block movement into cabin, etc.?
Has anyone done SFC III? worth it?
Also, I was wondering if this mod will adversly affect the collision safety of the max? structurally, engine block movement into cabin, etc.?
Has anyone done SFC III? worth it?
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