Street Reeper

I am starting on a new project (96 GXE) and would like to have the best parts for it (just like everyone else on this sight.) I have been researching intakes now for quite some time. I am having a hard time because usually what is listed is peak hp gains. This I believe is not the way to judge a modification. If peak hp was the way to judge a cars performance then a GS-T eclipse with 210hp would beat a Maxima with 190hp, but it does not. While racing, a car will not always be at the RPM that produces peak hp, therefore it is better to have consistent hp across the RPM range. This is why the lesser hp Maxima will beat the Eclipse (stock vs stock) because the Max is more consitent across the RPM range. I have seen messages that say the hybrid Franken car intake removes the low end lag but from the dyno on their page it seems that the complaints of low end lag do have merrit.

http://www.frankencar.com/project_02_max_se.shtml

It seems that it does gain peak hp, but look what happens between 4.5 and 5,000 rpm, it crashes to somthing like 25 hp less than stock, OUCH! Since the Max up shifts from red line to 4,000 this is where I would want/need a lot of power.
The Injen looks to be a little more consitent with small losses between 4200 and 4400 (about 6hp) but really shines between 4500 and 5000 eliminating the normal lag.

http://www.injen.com/webpages/testin...es/rd_1940.jpg

Also, judging modifications by 1/4 mile times alone is not what I would want. There are too many variables, usually 1/4 mile times are inconsistent even on the same car.

If anyone has Dyno graphs of the same car with the stock airbox and filter, as well as a K&N replacement filter, and CAI and hybrid intake I would be very interested. If their are any Nissan or automotive engineers I am wondering why would Nissan spend so much money on a complex air box if it would be more efficient, and cheaper to put on a pop charger? An open air filter in the engine bay would be great on a turbo with an intercooler to cool all and compress the extra air, but do you think that aftermarket companies have just capatilized on this look for NA cars as well? Anyone with dyno graphs of the same car with different mods would be great. Anyone fabricated a consitent intake with a dyno graph to back it up, what do the owners of the best V6 in the world think?

Nore474

so an Auto 95 Maxima can beat a 2nd Gen 97 Gs-t

mzmtg

iTrader: (11)

One word: noise

The complex intake tracts on modern cars are designed to be silent.

theblue

please... do you know how many kids show up on maxima.org these days with a stock car that they call their "project car"... they want to know the best intake to make them run 12s....

the truth is that ANY intake won't do much unless your engines needs a lot more air... sure you'll get some small gains from it but what will that do? The design of the intake will help a little here and there... if you live in a climate that is really hot all year then get a cold air intake, otherwise a pop should be good enough. Some people will battle over which intake is better, but that's normally because it is the only mod they can afford.

so basically I'm telling you that an intake is the least of your worries until you have a decent number of other power mods on your car that can benifit from the increased air flow. Get whatever one you want, they all sound cool.

Dave B

You are right, much of the reason why the VQ performs so well is because it produces strong mid-range power and has a very flat torque curve. The 4th gen is also very lightweight and has an awesome 3.80 gear ratio (5 speed). Mid range power is what you should be concerned about because that's where you spend most of your time accelerating. Many VTEC guys don't understand the concept of "average" HP and torque over the curves.

As for intakes, I've dynoed with a revised stock airbox with both resonators bypassed and a K&N filter panel and then with my current HKS hybrid/POP setup. From 2000-5000rpms, both intakes perform the same. From 5000-6400rpms, the HKS intake holds on to the power much better than the revised stock intake because it's able to suck in more air. At the track, I was consistently quicker and faster with the HKS intake. I was also a bit louder at WOT. A cold air intake will perform very close to a POP/hybrid. The only difference is the CAI has to suck air thru 3X as much plumbing therefore it gets choked slightly (nothing like the stock air box).

Nissan went to great lengths to keep the VQ quiet under WOT. The intake uses two large resonators, fore and aft of the airbox. One thing that I like about the factory intake snorkel is that it has a intake scoop. I left the intake plumbing in place to feed cooler air to my HKS. It's beyond me why guys remove intake snorkel when running a POP.


Dave

deezo

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmmmmmmmmm.......................

Lime

the pipe isn't losing power there, doi. 25 hp? riiight. check out steve's driving sometime! It atually pulls more high end, but does get rid of some of the low-end lag as well. However, as with most intakes, the WOT 3200+ RPM is when it really kicks in.

DA-MAX

iTrader: (10)

only if the the GST has no wheels and the turbo has been replaced with a tub of butter!

SteVTEC

It's amazing how many "Selling my Car" threads have popped up on the Accord V6 boards as a result of this little chart.



hehehe

Street Reeper

www.car-stats.com

Compare the 96 GXE to any GS-T stats you want. The GXE is a much better comparison because it's weight is closer to the GS-T do to lighter suspension, and no heavy leather. From personal exprience a couple of weeks ago my then stock Maxima 96 GXE raced a stock GS-t with a blow off valve. First to second was very close, but at the bottom end of each gear I would pull just slightly on him, which by third put his front bumper at my rear bumper.

Street Reeper

Yes, car-stats.com, compare the 96 GXE to any stats you can find for the GS-T. Do to the GXE not being as heavy as the SE, it is a better comparison to the GS-T. I raced one a couple of weeks ago and pulled on him in the lower portion of the RPM's with each shift. By third his front bumper was at my rear bumper. It seems that all the real enthusiats in my area know the power of the VQ, and where not surprised when I beat the GS-T, as I was very surprised.

Street Reeper

I'm 24 and this is my second project. I previously owned an eclipse that I learned how to work on from Jo-Tech. This is my first exprience with a NA car, with the eclipse the intake was a no brainer, open filter in the engine bay to draw in as much air as possible because the intercooler would take care of cooling it. My basic plan is PR CAI (still not sure though with the reports of highend loss, I'll probably end up fabricating my own, like a regular midpipe connected to a slighly larger diameter pipe going to the filter) Warpspeed Y pipe, Tesudo Muffler, Variable Intake manifold, Apex AFC, and a 75-100 shot of Nitrous.
Like I said this is my first time to work with an NA car, and it seems that the nitrous cars are faster than the SC (not to mention the complaints of longevity from the SC.) The power that I am looking for would be what got me the win against the eclipse (see other posts) that is power at the lower end of each gear during high rev shifts.

Street Reeper

http://www.frankencar.com/project_02_max_se.shtml

Here is the link of the dyno on the intake, over lap the two, or just look at it with your eyes, look between 4500 and 5000 rpm, compare it to the stock where the power is more consistent, yes I can see that it does add peak hp, but since the max up shifts from red to 4,000, this is where I want the most response. I'm not saying that this is not a good intake, just not the one for me.

Larry

I don't have a 96 but these dyno sheets from my 2K2 might be helpful.

Here is my dyno sheet with my stock engine and then with 003 the air filter assembly removed

http://www.mustangmods.com/publish/8850//max002003G.jpg

Here is my dyno with WarpSpeed's new Y & B pipes and my modified muffler with stock air box and then in 006 with air filter removed.

http://www.mustangmods.com/publish/8850//max005006G.jpg

I gained 20.9 hp and 23.6 peak torque with these mods and with gains throughout the rpm range.

Street Reeper

Was the run with the intake assembly totally off or was just the top of the filter box (where the filter is housed, taking the top off would expose the airfilter while maintaing all the piping)
For the dyno run with the exhaust was the intake back to normal, and are both runs with the same modifications at different times, it looks like the mods listed for both runs are the same. Sorry about being so tenascious, but I am really trying to get a handle on what mods do what during different ranges in the RPM. Many thanks for the informative post

Street Reeper

Never mind I see now after I take the time to read that the second run was done with your filter removed, thanks again for the posts

Street Reeper

Hey thanks a lot for the dyno graphs. Thats exactly what I was talking about, if someone where to ask which car would win before looking at the dyno graph, they would probably assume that the 200hp car would, but we both know differently. This is the exact reason why I like to look at a dyno graph before purchasing an aftermarket product, peak hp gains to me mean about has much as hp per liter

Larry

I had all the housing inplace with the air filter and it's craddle removed. I was pulling air from the top of the factory air box.

meccanoble

iTrader: (22)

so we still haven't decided what's the best intake.....

I'm debating between Franken and Injen

To make things easier, we should eliminate a few.

Regular intakes (stillen,etc.)
popcharger?
PR CAI?

what are definitely NOT the best? This will make things easier.

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

the changeover period where it gets weird is when teh VI is switching over. and there is fdefinetly no lag.

Street Reeper

My opinion is the hybrid intakes are the ones to go. These are no different than short ram. Short ram intakes where replaced by a pop charger because both get hot air from the engine, they figured that you might as well get rid of the restrictive tubing since your getting hot air. Or they where replaced by CAI's that draw cooler air. The hybrids I see today are hybrids of CAI and Popchargers, the hybrid of their negative qualities, piping, and engine heat. You can look at dyno graphs that show a loss of hp from 2500 to 5000, except at 3800 where power briefly comes back up to stock, but after 5000 it does provide increased power.

Print out the dyno sheets from a hybrid intake and overlay them and you will see this. Injen does have dyno graphs that show consistent power increases except for a small range between 4200 and 4400.
This is not my opinion, just what I observed from the dyno graphs.